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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 17 Rating
Perfect 10 75 42.61%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 39 22.16%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 38 21.59%
7 out of 10 : Good 20 11.36%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 1.14%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.14%
Voters: 176. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-02-03, 14:43   Link #221
Forgetful_Duck
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I predict possible Gundam Vs Gundam incidents at this rate
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Old 2008-02-03, 15:07   Link #222
Dean_the_Young
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Originally Posted by Forgetful_Duck View Post
I predict possible Gundam Vs Gundam incidents at this rate
Amazing!

I predicted them upon first seeing the second opening.

>.>
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Old 2008-02-03, 15:11   Link #223
Forgetful_Duck
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The ending of the new OP?
Where we see the Fangs shooting at our super soldier and exia takign a red GN blast? Your right.... never really noticed this before.
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Old 2008-02-03, 15:20   Link #224
TurinTurambar200
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In regards to the Observers and their role in CB, IIRC, they themselves said they cannot do anything other than "reject" the Gundams in ep 16. They're not exactly high ranking CB personnel from the sounds of that.
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Old 2008-02-03, 15:27   Link #225
ReddyRedWolf
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Originally Posted by wtfftw View Post
I just have 1 question HOW the hell did they know where that professor was?. I mean he could be anywhere in the base. Or did they know cuz they hacked his pc?
Being a brilliant scientist Prof. Eifman was I think he's a scientist tagged once for possible recruitment into CB.

He can think of the reasons of CB beyond their marketed ad of stopping war.

Which would suggest among some his circle of colleagues they think the same way he does.

Only that Veda may have judged he is not reliable for recruitment.

CB only uses forced recruitment , with neck bombs, on criminals.

Tagged as he is, CB followed his carreer. Recruiting his protogee Sumeragi later.


As for how they found him. Remember Neena was messing with Veda.

She must have sent whatever data she got to her boss.
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Old 2008-02-03, 15:27   Link #226
sart
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Originally Posted by Forgetful_Duck View Post
I predict possible Gundam Vs Gundam incidents at this rate
Also theres the possibility of gundam +aces vs thrones. Imagine setsuna + graham or soma
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Old 2008-02-03, 15:35   Link #227
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I foresee a problem making the new gundams fight the old ones, though... I know, it's obvious it's gonna happen, but because of that, I think we, as the audience, would be more likely to just accept whatever explanation is given to us for the fight. I mean, yes, it's clear that the two teams of meisters are not getting along, but unless they pleasantly surprise me and come up with some really interesting way to get the two teams to fight, I think I'll be disappointed.
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Old 2008-02-03, 15:40   Link #228
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Setsuna and Graham teaming up? That seems terribly heartbreaking in a way... Considering their past.
Anyhow I think one comment sums up this episode: "Anyone order a BFG?"
I kind of prefer the Trinity siblings and the Thrones over the Meisters, for their style. They exhume the badass qualities that Gundam 00 was really in need of and bleed their awesomeness in to the show. Gundam 00 was cool before, but not even remotely and cool as it is now. Their meeting was possibly one of the funniest Gundam moments I've seen, especially that little bit with Setsuna. Not to mention the Black Haro egging on Michael.
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Old 2008-02-03, 15:41   Link #229
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Agreed, right now its just personality conflict, Especially with crazy michael dude who seems to enjoy killing.

My guess is that The new team would be more ruthless (immoral?) and will do interventions that the original gundam team wouldn't, so they reject them as gundam miesters...
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Old 2008-02-03, 15:42   Link #230
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Dude awesome episode. Too bad the professor had to die like that....I also noticed Shinsen subs ' quality isn't that good compared to like Nyoro but translation is definitely better.
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Old 2008-02-03, 15:50   Link #231
Dean_the_Young
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Originally Posted by sart View Post
Also theres the possibility of gundam +aces vs thrones. Imagine setsuna + graham or soma
Yes! The SetsunaxExiaxGraham love triangle LIVES!!!
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Old 2008-02-03, 15:59   Link #232
allenephilim88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forgetful_Duck View Post
Agreed, right now its just personality conflict, Especially with crazy michael dude who seems to enjoy killing.

My guess is that The new team would be more ruthless (immoral?) and will do interventions that the original gundam team wouldn't, so they reject them as gundam miesters...

Not only ruthless or immoral. I think they will attack military bases without a conflict needed. Eliminating all mobile suits and military forces of all nations could be also considered a way to eliminate war. Perhaps even civilians will be a lot more involved in the Thrones interventions. Something like, "necesary sacrifices" for the sake of eliminating war.
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Old 2008-02-03, 16:01   Link #233
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Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Being a brilliant scientist Prof. Eifman was I think he's a scientist tagged once for possible recruitment into CB.

He can think of the reasons of CB beyond their marketed ad of stopping war.

Which would suggest among some his circle of colleagues they think the same way he does.

Only that Veda may have judged he is not reliable for recruitment.

CB only uses forced recruitment , with neck bombs, on criminals.

Tagged as he is, CB followed his carreer. Recruiting his protogee Sumeragi later.


As for how they found him. Remember Neena was messing with Veda.

She must have sent whatever data she got to her boss.
Do you think then that the CB or observers have people within the UNION HRL EAU.

"VEDA", how does it work i mean to get all this info is for me like wow. I mean military information system are either distributed or closed off from the public i geuss.

Anyway its a good ep and i too think this new gundam group gives a bit of life to the show.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allenephilim88 View Post
Not only ruthless or immoral. I think they will attack military bases without a conflict needed. Eliminating all mobile suits and military forces of all nations could be also considered a way to eliminate war. Perhaps even civilians will be a lot more involved in the Thrones interventions. Something like, "necesary sacrifices" for the sake of eliminating war.
I agree with you on this but you also need to know that with war there will always be civilian sacrifices. At least from all the wars in our human world history. So i think for the thrown and gundam meister it should also hold unfortunatly i might add:S.
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Old 2008-02-03, 16:37   Link #234
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Civilian casulties were highlighted in ep 7. The current group accept it, but prefer for it not to happen. So they reduce the chances of it happening as much as possible. The Thrones look as though they'll hit anywhere without care of the cost of human life.
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Old 2008-02-03, 16:49   Link #235
ReddyRedWolf
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Do you think then that the CB or observers have people within the UNION HRL EAU.

"VEDA", how does it work i mean to get all this info is for me like wow. I mean military information system are either distributed or closed off from the public i geuss.
Definitely they have people within them. They do have Alejandro in UN so it is not unimaginable. Not to mention Wang's agents.

Heck they can smuggle Gundams in the elevators which could suggest they have inside persons there.

Also they recruit from these factions.

Ian Vesty used to be a AEU military mechanic. Sumeragi was a Union forcaster.
Aleluah was a HRL super soldier experiment.

Given that Veda can predict scenarios it could very well be that Veda is a Quantum computer with an AI.

Therefore it can bust through military firewalls like Swiss cheese.
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Old 2008-02-03, 17:11   Link #236
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I liked the new episode, so far i like the whole series.Hope to see more *^-^*
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Old 2008-02-03, 17:18   Link #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allenephilim88 View Post
Not only ruthless or immoral. I think they will attack military bases without a conflict needed. Eliminating all mobile suits and military forces of all nations could be also considered a way to eliminate war. Perhaps even civilians will be a lot more involved in the Thrones interventions. Something like, "necesary sacrifices" for the sake of eliminating war.
I like the new gundam meisters over the old ones. They are much more committed to fulfilling the goals of CB. When you are fighting a war you can't just destroy the weapons in this case mobile suits. You need to destroy the reason those weapons came to be and where they came from.

HRL created the super soldier program they finally destroyed it. But what about the guys who approved it and the funding that it had. Unless you take them out they can start another program.

I am surprised how long it took them to target Prof. Eifman he was obviously very brilliant and already upgraded the flag units to be more powerful and was figuring out the gundams power. If anyone had a chance of figuring out a weakness or counter to the gundams it would be him. That makes him an extreme threat to CB plus he is the creator of many weapons that alone should make him a target for elimination. Finally the Trinity team did want the others failed to do.

Just like in real life we didnt win wars by only targeting the soldiers and tanks in the field. We target production facilities and research areas along with transportation and storage areas. If you want to win the war against war you can't half-ass it like the original 4 meisters have been doing it. Gundams and the meisters were created to fulfill the goals of CB. If anything we should be asking is Setsuna and the others really Gundam Meisters, because their current actions are not doing enough to eradicate war.

Everyday they should be targeting bases supply depot research areas and even the ace pilots themselves. There should be operations to find out who the ace pilots are and then kill them when they are sleeping.

If you support CB ideals then you support the Trinity meisters, since they are doing what should be done.

Last edited by ShadowLight; 2008-02-03 at 17:51.
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Old 2008-02-03, 17:56   Link #238
Dean_the_Young
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Where to begin...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowLight View Post
I like the new gundam meisters over the old ones. They are much more committed to fulfilling the goals of CB. When you are fighting a war you can't just destroy the weapons in this case mobile suits. You need to destroy the reason those weapons came to be and where they came from.
And how does the Professor incite a war? The Professor is a materials engineer, almost certainly having been involved in the construction of the Space Elevator which is the single greatest beneficial activity in the world. Meanwhile, Billy is the one who designed the Union Flag (and, by extent, the Enact), which is about as good as a design as any power can reach at this point in time. The Thrones didn't target Eifman because he was working on a new weapon: they targeted him because he was learning the truth behind CB.



Quote:
HRL created the super soldier program they finally destroyed it. But what about the guys who approved it and they funding that is had. Unless you take them out they can start another program.
...and what, exactly, is to prevent their successors from approving the program as well? With even more money for secrecy, so that the next time it was attempted they could give the attacker a good kick in the teeth?
Quote:
I am surprised how long it took them to target Prof. Eifman he was obviously very brilliant and already upgraded the flag units to be more powerful adn was figuring out gundams power. If anyone had a chance of figuring out a weakness or counter to gundam it would be him. That make him an extreme threat to CB plus he is the creator of many weapons that alone should make him a target for elimination.
Eifman is a materials engineer: his job is to make things stronger, lighter, and more flexible as needed. Billy is a mobile suit developer. All Eifman did was add on to what was already there in terms of quality.
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Just like in real life we didnt win wars by only targeting the soldiers and tanks in the field. We target production facilities and research areas.

When was the last war that happened. In the last two Iraq Wars, the Serbian Conflict, and the various invasions of Central America/Caribbean invasions in the last twenty years, targeting was overwhelmingly selected against the soldiers, tanks, and offensive infrastructure key to their capabilities (radar sites are a fun one, as are mobile radars and launch centers). The effects of bombing against military production in WW2 (which I assume you are thinking of) have been overstated for decades (such as how German military production INCREASED in the last years of the war), and not even Israel has been able to bomb weapon factories in Palestine. We've haven't won our last multitude of wars by bombing factories and research centers, not least because the vast majority of countries buy weapons from abroad.

What you are thinking of is total war... which Celestial Being hasn't done to this point, and for good reason.
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Along with transportation and storage areas. If you want to win the war against war you can't half-ass it like the original 4 meisters have been doing it.
Except, the Meisters were winning it. Hence the scene with Tieria, who tells us that not only have worldwide conflicts dropped massively, but the number of companies in the arms industry were willingly withdrawing, even though CB hadn't been targeting them directly. There's a vast difference between letting someone freely get out, and trying to force someone out. Such as when you use direct force, the people tend to fight back and not do what you want.
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Everyday they should be targeting bases supply depot research areas and even the ace pilots themselves. There should be operations to find out who the ace pilots are and then kill them when they are sleeping.
One: This assumes that the Meisters/CB see individual pilots as a threat: with the exception of Soma, they don't. And Soma is a state secret. Graham, the man with the most experience with against Gundams, is on a moving carrier filled with ace-grunts and has only been a treat to any pilot exactly once, when Lockon was so exhausted a kitten could have wrestled him down.

Two: In a sense, they have: the Meisters have been trying to make it so that Allelujah will never be without another Meister to kill Soma (who's a state secret of the HRL), Setsuna's been trying to slice apart Ali from day one. But Ali is purely personal, and Soma is the only actual threat to CB. Everyone else (Graham and Patrick) have been pests that refuse to die.
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If you support CB ideals then you support the Trinity meisters for they are the the most direct path to achieving that goal.
Here's the thing about direct paths: they don't work, and when they do, there is almost always a better way.

"As the crow flies" is only good for absolute distances apart; it's near worthless for actually going from one place to another. If you walk from point A to point B just about anywhere, say a forest, a neighborhood, or even a soccer field, you find pretty quick that other things don't move for you, but you move for them.

When doing land navigation in a forest, there's a very good reason I step around trees, seek ways around thron thickets, avoid marshes, and find terrain features even though they are out of the way. When in a city, I follow the streets and rules of the road for the simple fact that moving a car through houses, other cars, or other people is rarely the best way to get somewhere. On a soccer field, I don't take the direct path to where the soccer ball is; I take a path around other players that will put me where the ball will be.

So no, if I support Celestial Being I don't have to support the most direct route to the goal. I can support the side route with twists and turns that actually works.
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Old 2008-02-03, 18:19   Link #239
Itadakimasu!
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Well, what can I say? I had hoped trinity would bring a new dimension to Celestial Being, and they certainly fulfilled my expectations. However it seems their radical approach (which I tend to agree with given that CB is dealing with 3 superpowers who almost succeeded in taking down the original gundams) is tainted by something far more sinister - the implementation of Aeolia's "true" plans , which seem not to be world peace.

I don't have anything against Trinity per se. If their aim is to ensure world peace, it would make sense to have a first strike policy because the 3 world powers pose a credible and imminent threat to those aims.

I'm a bit annoyed at Setsuna's "are they even meisters" attitude... i feel its an extension of the messiah complex the original team seems to have... that attitude is nice if you're making a last stand, but doesn't get you anywhere in qualitative or quantitative terms.


Just in response to the last post:

1. German production increased because of vital flaws in Allied Bombing... the planning was laughable. Also, Speer, the Minister for Armaments was probably the ONLY competent minister in the upper echelons of Nazi rule - much of his planning was the reason weapon production peaked in 1944.

Had the Allies been more thorough in their bombing tactics Speer would have been screwed.

2. in the war against terror, bomb makers are particularly targeted by US forces. Why? because without those capabilities you make no bombs. The success rate isn't all that relevant because each bomb maker arrested/killed means that American lives are saved.

3. I believe Trinity's methods would be entirely acceptable were it not for the insidious subtext of their missions. CB will only continue to be trapped and surrounded had they relied on passive, 'peace keeping' tactics. It's very similar to the situation in Mogadishu, 1992. Militia were slaughtering civilians and the US had no authority to engage them simply because the militia did not fire on the US. Trinity's ROE and their attitude is an important factor in keeping the superpowers on the backfoot and maintaining the upper hand CB owns.

Before I get flamed i'd like to point out that I only support Trinity's MODUS OPERANDI and not their aims, which may not infact be world peace.
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Last edited by Itadakimasu!; 2008-02-03 at 18:34.
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Old 2008-02-03, 18:40   Link #240
dahak
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1 note that Haro said
Spoiler:
IIRC the character in Gundam to previously over use that phrase was Olba Frost. And we all know how he and his brother turned out.
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