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Old 2008-02-08, 14:08   Link #41
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by Terra View Post
Only if she was given the information to begin with. Which there has been no evidence she was given.
Considering how infalliable Celestial Being's Intelligence has been portrayed as, I'd say it was her mistake to make, not John Wong's of HRL packaging and shipment department.
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Old 2008-02-08, 14:15   Link #42
allenephilim88
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Originally Posted by Terra View Post
Actually it was shown in ep 10 that he could hear her thoughts.

Really??? You mean the time he hears her voice when she was fighting Tieria?? Then Soma has really not a chance against Hallelujah. Unless that works as well for Soma, but if that were true she could have dodge the beams (maybe).

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All she would have had to do was wonder why the HRL had ordered up tens of thousands of trancievers. That kind of order is very unusual, and as Sergei said, resource intensive. No doubt they have an operative in a position to follow military proporations in the factions. Anything odd like the one Sergei planned was something she should have paid attention to. She was too busy getting drunk to stop and think about it.

The kind of operation Sergei set up, it would have taken weeks to get it all together. Plenty of time for Sumeragi to take notice of it.
The problem with Sumeragi was that she took to much time to realize Sergei´s true objective (maybe she was drunk). Also, sending the Virtue and the Kyrios in different ways was a stupid tactic. Why would they need to perform a pincer strike knowing that the gundams were superior and able to take down Sergei´s forces??? Considering the gundams power, a direct strike using the Kyrios and Virtue would be more effective. The Ptolemy was going to be discovered no matter what tactic she used (if the direct strike was effective the Ptolemy wouldn´t have been discovered) so another tactic would be to secure the Ptolemy using the Kyrios and Virtue in the front lines, in the fire range of the Dynames and keeping the Exia in the rear in the case that some mobile suits passed trough.
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Old 2008-02-08, 14:21   Link #43
Dean_the_Young
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Note: Sumeragi has never been shown drunk in the series. Ever. Constantly drinking, yes, but never in the least ineberated.

As for why she would send the Gundams out in a pincer movement rather than charge straight in, it's for the same reason that Abrahms tanks don't simply charge at the enemy, guns firing. Tactics is about doing the most with less, even if you have more than the opponent. Besides, if Sergei had been the one to initiate a pincer assault with his ships, Sumeragi still would have had to send one Gundam towards each ship to prevent from being flanked, giving Sergei the exact same result.
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Old 2008-02-08, 14:25   Link #44
Terra
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Originally Posted by allenephilim88 View Post
Really??? You mean the time he hears her voice when she was fighting Tieria?? Then Soma has really not a chance against Hallelujah. Unless that works as well for Soma, but if that were true she could have dodge the beams (maybe).
She as affected by Allelujah's quantum brain waves as Allelujah is by hers. This is why a device was implanted in her suit to prevent that from happening. It's pretty clear from ep 5 that she heard Hallelujah threaten to kill her which is why she freaked so bad and started shooting at the tower.

I just find it interesting that Hallelujah seems to have no problem with quantum brain waves, unlike Allelujah. He was only pissed in ep 5. In ep 10 he again showed no sign of pain. Same with ep 15.
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Old 2008-02-08, 14:48   Link #45
allenephilim88
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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
Note: Sumeragi has never been shown drunk in the series. Ever. Constantly drinking, yes, but never in the least ineberated.

As for why she would send the Gundams out in a pincer movement rather than charge straight in, it's for the same reason that Abrahms tanks don't simply charge at the enemy, guns firing. Tactics is about doing the most with less, even if you have more than the opponent. Besides, if Sergei had been the one to initiate a pincer assault with his ships, Sumeragi still would have had to send one Gundam towards each ship to prevent from being flanked, giving Sergei the exact same result.
Yeah, Sumeragi really has some resistance. She´s always drinking but she never gets drunk.. About the straight forward thing, I said that because the gundams seem to always charge that way, normaly not using tactics (at least they don´t mention them) and GN-particles have the fault. They are like a two edge sword because you can use it to prevent the communications, giving a hard time to the enemy forces to coordinate, but on the otherside your location can be compromised when attacking military bases and so.

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Originally Posted by Terra View Post
She as affected by Allelujah's quantum brain waves as Allelujah is by hers. This is why a device was implanted in her suit to prevent that from happening. It's pretty clear from ep 5 that she heard Hallelujah threaten to kill her which is why she freaked so bad and started shooting at the tower.

I just find it interesting that Hallelujah seems to have no problem with quantum brain waves, unlike Allelujah. He was only pissed in ep 5. In ep 10 he again showed no sign of pain. Same with ep 15.
We definitely have to watch a real fight between Soma and Hallelujah in fact, we need to see Hallelujah actually fighting against someone that gives a good fight.

There is something I have been wondering about. In episode 16 the observators reminded me of the energy canon of the Dynames that shots up to space. They also mentioned the Nadeleh and the blade Kyrios has on its shield. For what kind of mission would they want to use those weapons??? The Dynames canon is somewhat useless if the interventions are only to be carried out on earth. Perhaps they intend to use it to defend the orbital elevator against some kind of threat or something similar.
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Old 2008-02-08, 14:52   Link #46
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by allenephilim88 View Post
The problem with Sumeragi was that she took to much time to realize Sergei´s true objective (maybe she was drunk). Also, sending the Virtue and the Kyrios in different ways was a stupid tactic. Why would they need to perform a pincer strike knowing that the gundams were superior and able to take down Sergei´s forces??? Considering the gundams power, a direct strike using the Kyrios and Virtue would be more effective. The Ptolemy was going to be discovered no matter what tactic she used (if the direct strike was effective the Ptolemy wouldn´t have been discovered) so another tactic would be to secure the Ptolemy using the Kyrios and Virtue in the front lines, in the fire range of the Dynames and keeping the Exia in the rear in the case that some mobile suits passed trough.
Tactically, her only mistake was thinking she had to be clever when she's got Gundams on her side.
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Old 2008-02-08, 14:57   Link #47
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So far all the weapons on Nadleeh have come from Virtue. I'm sure there's some specific Nadleeh weapons as well which is part of the reason it's so special. Kyrios until that point had never shown any close range weapons. They seemed to want to keep Kyrios' close range abilities secret for now since it changes the way people view the suit.
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Old 2008-02-08, 15:09   Link #48
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I don't think there is any reason to assume that some of the suits lack close combat capabilities. Especially ever since Exia revealed the beam saber, which doesn't require much space to carry around. If anything the "claw" Kyrios has is less effective than a sword/beam saber in close combat, because it would likely take more time to do same level of damage (if at all possible), so i would still consider getting up close an personal with Kyrios as the best way to deal with it. Maneuverability and mid range combat seems its forte, so getting up close should be the best way to overwhelm it.
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Old 2008-02-08, 15:19   Link #49
allenephilim88
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I don't think there is any reason to assume that some of the suits lack close combat capabilities. Especially ever since Exia revealed the beam saber, which doesn't require much space to carry around. If anything the "claw" Kyrios has is less effective than a sword/beam saber in close combat, because it would likely take more time to do same level of damage (if at all possible), so i would still consider getting up close an personal with Kyrios as the best way to deal with it. Maneuverability and mid range combat seems its forte, so getting up close should be the best way to overwhelm it.
Well, that Ming guy got close to the Kyrios, and we all know how that ended up.
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Old 2008-02-08, 15:20   Link #50
Terra
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Hallelujah showed that speed isn't an issue with it when he nearly took the Taozi's head off. He was deliberately slow with it in ep 10 since he was torturing the guy to death.
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Old 2008-02-08, 15:28   Link #51
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I don't think there is any reason to assume that some of the suits lack close combat capabilities. Especially ever since Exia revealed the beam saber, which doesn't require much space to carry around. If anything the "claw" Kyrios has is less effective than a sword/beam saber in close combat, because it would likely take more time to do same level of damage (if at all possible), so i would still consider getting up close an personal with Kyrios as the best way to deal with it. Maneuverability and mid range combat seems its forte, so getting up close should be the best way to overwhelm it.
Of course they'd assume all suits have some sort of close range weapon as Lockon proved. But the shield would show a much more focused close range ability that wasn't known before rather than a backup close range weapon if something got that close. The observers wouldn't be upset about it being used so early if it didn't affect how Kyrios was viewed.
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Old 2008-02-08, 15:30   Link #52
Skyfall
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The claw doesn't look like its capable of cutting/slicing something though (The claw would get in the way of the blade thats mounted in between them). Therefore he can not slice off an arm or do anything similar with it. Slicing a part of is instant damage and crippled enemy, while with the claw the suit might not be disabled, thus you have just caught an enemy who is still capable of shooting/stabbing you in the face. (Not to mention the aim with the claw should need to be much more accurate if you are aiming for a critical part, due to its inability to inflict large scale (slashing) damage. It can get the job done (killing the enemy), but its effectiveness compared to a simple blade should be horrible for all intents and purposes, thus melee is still by far the best option against Kyrios if massive amounts of suppression fire is not available. If the claw is all it has, then Kyrios is seriously handicapped against any competent pilot who bothered to bring a sword along for the ride, and is something i would exploit against this particular gundam.
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Old 2008-02-08, 15:53   Link #53
Terra
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Actually Kyrios' blade went completely through the Tieran in ep 10 ao it's capable of extending well past the claw.
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Old 2008-02-08, 16:09   Link #54
allenephilim88
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Actually Kyrios' blade went completely through the Tieran in ep 10 ao it's capable of extending well past the claw.
True, that claw is pretty powerful. Its very useful in cases where the arm of the kyrios is being grabbed or in close range combat.
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Old 2008-02-08, 16:23   Link #55
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Nothing beats The Claw! It'd only work if you've already got the enemy right where you want them, meaning you've already been attacked and the enemy is right in your face. You couldn't use it to perform a fast attack as it's big and easily dodged.

I think it'd be great if the Factions pooled all their best pilots and commanders into one anti-Gundam unit. Sergei, Soma, Kati, Patrick, Billy, and Graham altogether, rubbing shoulders, would be great. Well, maybe not Billy, filthy traitor that he is. Really, Graham's enough on his own to represenet the Union.

Of course, that's just putting all your eggs in one basket. I'd simply be satisfied if they ever met, and exchanged mutual respects.
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Old 2008-02-08, 17:25   Link #56
Terra
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It's not like he knows he's passing info to the enemy. He just sees an ex-colleage that he's trying to tempt back to the Union.
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Old 2008-02-08, 18:00   Link #57
Anh_Minh
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Sumeragi's main mistake was not anticipating the HRL. It was the obvious move. Even without people warning her the HRL had ordered a lot of transmitters, she should have prepared for it and drilled her crew to respond properly.

A second mistake was that she just didn't act like getting away was her primary objective, or like the Gundams were valuable targets in and of themselves. She should have.
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Old 2008-02-08, 18:06   Link #58
Terra
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Misjudging the value of the Gundams is a mistake, but for the getting away part, she knew it was too late by the time they realized the HRL knew where they were which is why she didn't bother with trying to escape.
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Old 2008-02-08, 18:34   Link #59
Anh_Minh
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She did. She just went at it the wrong way. Separating and losing communication? Dumb. Engage them instead of just giving them a bloody nose and running? Dumb.
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Old 2008-02-09, 14:55   Link #60
Dean_the_Young
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She did. She just went at it the wrong way. Separating and losing communication? Dumb. Engage them instead of just giving them a bloody nose and running? Dumb.
It's only stupid if it doesn't work. Otherwise, it's brilliant. It's hardly uncommon for parts of a unit to be given a task where they'll be out of contact for varying amounts of time. A squad leader who tells a team leader to check a building can't expect to keep it contact to countermand it at any point, and a Team Leader who divides his team to hit a point from two directions doesn't expect to be able to call it off at any moment once the other two are around the corner.. There is such a thing as combat necessity.
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