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Old 2008-02-09, 15:10   Link #61
allenephilim88
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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
It's only stupid if it doesn't work. Otherwise, it's brilliant. It's hardly uncommon for parts of a unit to be given a task where they'll be out of contact for varying amounts of time. A squad leader who tells a team leader to check a building can't expect to keep it contact to countermand it at any point, and a Team Leader who divides his team to hit a point from two directions doesn't expect to be able to call it off at any moment once the other two are around the corner.. There is such a thing as combat necessity.
That requieres a lot of trust in your partners abilities (who wouldnīt trust in a gundam and a gundam meister abilities). Unfortunately for Sumeragi, Soma wasnīt on her calculations. When she appeared in front of Allelujah, all went to hell.
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Old 2008-02-09, 15:41   Link #62
Anh_Minh
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If the goal was to destroy the HRL force? Maybe it could be justified.

As they were caught flatfooted by the HRL attack? Not so much.
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Old 2008-02-09, 15:47   Link #63
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
If the goal was to destroy the HRL force? Maybe it could be justified.

As they were caught flatfooted by the HRL attack? Not so much.
How isn't it justified to have moved to, in your words, "give them a bloody nose"? You don't give a bloody nose in a firefight by standing in a line and shooting in one direction unless the terrain limits you. You flank, divert fire, and do any number of dirty tricks to maintain the initiative. Sumeragi devised a tactic to allow Celestial Being the initiative. Sergei had a dirty trick lined up to counter it and keep the momentum. Sergei clearly won that gambit, but hardly makes Sumeragi an incompetant, or even that she made the "wrong" call at the time.
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Old 2008-02-09, 15:55   Link #64
Anh_Minh
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By "give them a bloody nose", I don't mean engaging them full on and destroying as many of them as possible. I mean displaying enough firepower to convince the HRL not to swarm them recklessly. That is not accomplished by separating and allowing the enemy to pick whichever target they want.

The point, as I've been saying, wasn't to "win" the battle. It was just to get away.

And, never mind the result. Is there any justification for separating, from Sumeragi's point of view, when they spotted the HRL? What the hell did she think to accomplish? What advantage was she seeking, there?
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Old 2008-02-09, 15:59   Link #65
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
How isn't it justified to have moved to, in your words, "give them a bloody nose"? You don't give a bloody nose in a firefight by standing in a line and shooting in one direction unless the terrain limits you. You flank, divert fire, and do any number of dirty tricks to maintain the initiative. Sumeragi devised a tactic to allow Celestial Being the initiative. Sergei had a dirty trick lined up to counter it and keep the momentum. Sergei clearly won that gambit, but hardly makes Sumeragi an incompetant, or even that she made the "wrong" call at the time.
Exia running interference, with Dynames sniping with a handicap was more than andequote to hold off half of Sergei's forces. Again, Sumeragi tried to be clever and got burned for it. I think her problem is that she's too smart and can't be satisfied with a simple approach that doesn't show off just how smart she is.
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Old 2008-02-11, 11:36   Link #66
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For the big three, the best strategy I can think of is assassination of the pilots and members. Of course, that'll still require intelligence of sorts. Setsuna's name has been revealed already anyways, they can just look that name up and whatever he's done.

Microwaving them inside their gundams seems to work fine too. Solution: build portable high radiation weaponry.
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Old 2008-02-11, 11:48   Link #67
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For the big three, the best strategy I can think of is assassination of the pilots and members. Of course, that'll still require intelligence of sorts. Setsuna's name has been revealed already anyways, they can just look that name up and whatever he's done.
The only person to know Setsuna's identity is Marina, and (1) no one else knows this and (2) she ain't telling. As far as the AEU knows, the pilot (they don't know the term "Meister") of the sword gundam (not Exia) is a short, probably young, man. Just like all the Union pilot of last episode knew about Neena was that she was a young girl.
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Microwaving them inside their gundams seems to work fine too. Solution: build portable high radiation weaponry.
Hm? I wasn't aware of any microwave weapons having been used, let alone existing in 00. If you're talking about Ali's Aggressor, I might note that that got blown up, and only got the chance to work because Setsuna was already at the breaking point. But that's an energy field, and the most mobile version of that anyone has put out is AEU, who disarmed four Hellions, but the moment one of them died the entire setup failed.
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Old 2008-02-11, 14:50   Link #68
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For the big three, the best strategy I can think of is assassination of the pilots and members. Of course, that'll still require intelligence of sorts. Setsuna's name has been revealed already anyways, they can just look that name up and whatever he's done.
Finding out the identity of the gundam meisters is pretty difficult and almost impossible. First, they are only known by codenames (even by us, the viewers, except for Lockon and Setsuna, names that only US viewers know). The powers havenīt even found many clues about the scientists that built the gundams, so finding out about 4 random guys would be almost impossible. The only one that can be found technicaly is Allelujah because Sergei already knows he is a supersoldier from their programm (the scientist that got arrested already found his file but I donīt know why he didnīt gave it to Sergei when he got arrested). Sergei could also use Soma as a "Allelujah detector". He could detect Allelujah when he uses the orbital elevator, asuming Allelujah uses the HRL orbital elevator of course. Tieria is the most difficult to find because no one knows even what he is, (male, female,cyborg, all of the above...). Besides, now CB (or the Thrones and other people at least) seems to be eliminating all people who are investigating about the gundams, so I think the any assasination attempt of the pilots or any CB member would be impossible (except in battle).
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Old 2008-02-11, 15:29   Link #69
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Ali knows who Setsuna is. His information would probably be worth something if it didn't raise questions about how he knows. Of course depending upon who talks to, he could be forgiven for his crimes as part of a deal. At this point though, Ali seems about as important as a wet paper bag, but it's there.

They know who Allejuah is and even have a probable physical description. He hasn't changed much in the past ten or so years. Ageing him appropiately and distributing his appearance to various intelligence agencies would make sure he never sets foot on Earth again.

Who really knows anything about Lockon? He's the second most mysterious Meister. He's got a twin brother who may or may not know anything about him.

I don't even think Tieria is from Earth. His identity is worthless.

Really, the Meisters aren't worth much. Ideally, Orange Suit and Pigtails would be caught. Sumeragi would be a big one to catch as well.
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Old 2008-02-11, 16:09   Link #70
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Ali doesn't know who Setsuna is. He just knows he's a Kurdish brat he has ties to. That describes how many people?
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Old 2008-02-11, 16:10   Link #71
allenephilim88
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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Ali knows who Setsuna is. His information would probably be worth something if it didn't raise questions about how he knows. Of course depending upon who talks to, he could be forgiven for his crimes as part of a deal. At this point though, Ali seems about as important as a wet paper bag, but it's there.

They know who Allejuah is and even have a probable physical description. He hasn't changed much in the past ten or so years. Ageing him appropiately and distributing his appearance to various intelligence agencies would make sure he never sets foot on Earth again.

Who really knows anything about Lockon? He's the second most mysterious Meister. He's got a twin brother who may or may not know anything about him.

I don't even think Tieria is from Earth. His identity is worthless.

Really, the Meisters aren't worth much. Ideally, Orange Suit and Pigtails would be caught. Sumeragi would be a big one to catch as well.
As far as I know Ali only knows that some kid from Krugis is the pilot, not exactly Setsuna.

I believe Sumeragi and the others wouldnīt be different from the meisters. All of them know basically the same things. Maybe Felt knows more because she has been more involved with CB than anyone else. Although I capturing the Ptolemy and itīs crew, even without gundams and meisters, would be a really great catch, especially because of Veda. Could be one hell of a good tactic. Creating a conflict using enough forces to atract all the 4 gundams while simultaneously send teams to find the Ptolemy.
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Old 2008-02-11, 16:14   Link #72
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Ali doesn't know who Setsuna is. He just knows he's a Kurdish brat he has ties to. That describes how many people?
He said that Kurdish brat. That would imply that Ali knows who exactly Setsuna is. Considering how personal Setsuna regards Ali, they probably had a significant falling out before parting ways.
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Old 2008-02-11, 16:18   Link #73
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Ali doesn't know who Setsuna is exactly. He only knows he's one of the kids from Kurdish that he trained.

As for Allelujah, the scientist wasn't giving up his identity because that meant admitting they were killing their failed experiments. The guy said it himself when he found out who Allelujah was that it would be bad if Sergei, etc found out about that. Bad enough they've been experimenting on kids without admitting you've been coldlessly killing them as well. The whole reason Soma can't understand Allelujah's actions is because she has no idea of the truth of what happens to it failures. They came from the same place but experienced very different outcomes.
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Old 2008-02-11, 16:28   Link #74
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Ali doesn't know who Setsuna is exactly. He only knows he's one of the kids from Kurdish that he trained.

As for Allelujah, the scientist wasn't giving up his identity because that meant admitting they were killing their failed experiments. The guy said it himself when he found out who Allelujah was that it would be bad if Sergei, etc found out about that. Bad enough they've been experimenting on kids without admitting you've been coldlessly killing them as well. The whole reason Soma can't understand Allelujah's actions is because she has no idea of the truth of what happens to it failures. They came from the same place but experienced very different outcomes.
Again, he said that Kurdish brat. That would imply he knows exacly who Setsuna is.

And I think it's pretty much a given that what the scienctist knew is now known by Sergei, and probably Soma. They know what Allejuah looks like, but have no idea where he's been since they let him go.

As for why Soma is curious about his slaughter of her kin, I am curious as to that too. That whole episode was about Allejuah "becoming of age", but how it played out simply showed how much of a baby he is.

It would have been better for VEDA to have said "These Super Soldiers are dangerous to us. Destroy them." instead of Allejuah having his little moment in the spotlight and making himself feel better by killing hundreds of people.
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Old 2008-02-11, 16:52   Link #75
Anh_Minh
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Again, he said that Kurdish brat. That would imply he knows exacly who Setsuna is.
When?

Are you sure it doesn't mean "That Kurdish brat whom I met earlier when he was dumb enough to get out of his gundam"?
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Old 2008-02-11, 17:03   Link #76
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When?

Are you sure it doesn't mean "That Kurdish brat whom I met earlier when he was dumb enough to get out of his gundam"?
I believe it was in Episode 13. Ali figured it out since his hideout had been discovered and called Setsuna "That Kurdish Brat". It wasn't a general reference. At least as I remember it.
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Old 2008-02-11, 17:13   Link #77
Terra
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And I think it's pretty much a given that what the scienctist knew is now known by Sergei, and probably Soma. They know what Allejuah looks like, but have no idea where he's been since they let him go.

As for why Soma is curious about his slaughter of her kin, I am curious as to that too. That whole episode was about Allejuah "becoming of age", but how it played out simply showed how much of a baby he is.

It would have been better for VEDA to have said "These Super Soldiers are dangerous to us. Destroy them." instead of Allejuah having his little moment in the spotlight and making himself feel better by killing hundreds of people.
No Sergei doesn't know since the I doubt they just left all their info available for him to go look at. Why bother to lie if you know they can just go to your pc and find the info. You only lie if you know you can get away with it even if you know they know you're lying. Out of the options he's facing, lying is the better one since I seriously doubt they'd be forgiving to what they do to the kids

VEDA didn't have the data for that. It's not even clear if it was known before Allelujah passed on the Super Soldier info that CB knew about it. They certainly didn't know about the facility on the colony. The only way to attack it was for Allelujah to pass on the info.
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Old 2008-02-11, 17:58   Link #78
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Again, he said that Kurdish brat. That would imply he knows exacly who Setsuna is.

.
Ali only know that Exia's pilot is a kurd, as he seems to be linked to him (showed himself to bait him), and knew of his old hidout, Ali still doesnt know who exactly he is.
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Old 2008-02-11, 18:15   Link #79
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No Sergei doesn't know since the I doubt they just left all their info available for him to go look at. Why bother to lie if you know they can just go to your pc and find the info. You only lie if you know you can get away with it even if you know they know you're lying. Out of the options he's facing, lying is the better one since I seriously doubt they'd be forgiving to what they do to the kids
It's better to assume the information was still there at the time of the arrest than for it to have been deleted. Besides, it's not like Sergei wasn't performing his own investigation after figuring out that Allejuah was the same as Soma. He obviously wasn't satisfied with the excuse that the other Factions might be conducting their own enhanced human projects.

They know what Allejuah looks and sounds like. It's a safer bet than not.

Quote:
VEDA didn't have the data for that. It's not even clear if it was known before Allelujah passed on the Super Soldier info that CB knew about it. They certainly didn't know about the facility on the colony. The only way to attack it was for Allelujah to pass on the info.
My point is it would have been better for Soma's performance against Virtue and Kyrios to be seen as a threat to their operations. If just one Super Soldier makes one of their Meisters go crazy, and is able to comfortably out perform any of their suits, then more would be a bad thing for them.

Instead, Allejuah pulls top secret information out of his ass, non-chalantly passes it on to Sumeragi who arbitraily decides it's war incitement and grants permission for Allejuah to kill as many as he wants in order for him to become of age.
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Old 2008-02-11, 18:19   Link #80
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Ali only know that Exia's pilot is a kurd, as he seems to be linked to him (showed himself to bait him), and knew of his old hidout, Ali still doesnt know who exactly he is.
Look, I'm basing it on a quote from Ali in one of his battles with Setsuna. If that quote can be seen in any other way, than I'll drop it. I believe it was in episode 13 Menclave Subs. The quote shouldn't be hard to find. If I'm remembering it wrong or if you think the quote can be taken in a different way, just go ahead and tell me.

If not, then I stand by my belief that Ali knows exactly who Setsuna is.
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