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Old 2008-04-28, 10:17   Link #81
Hiking_Bear
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Actually the story makes speed and stealth out to be quite important. Consider how one of Sasuke's greatest assets is his speed; consider how Minato was known as the Yellow Flash; consider Madara's ability to teleport himself; consider Jiraiya sneaking into Rain Village. How could anyone possibly know if Zetsu is weak, when he hasn't fought any battles yet? The fact that he's a member of Akatsuki and that he's one of the few remaining members suggests he isn't weak at all. Plus, he's been around since part 1 and he's currently the most mysterious Akatsuki member. I doubt he's just some throw-away goon that's only good for reconnaissance.
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Old 2008-04-28, 22:39   Link #82
Sharfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skurai View Post
Its true for splinter cell but if zetsu is insanely powerful, they should have hinted it by now and they would have used him by now to do alot of things which could probably even mean that some of the akatsuki members wont be so dead.

1. If he is that mobile and that powerful, why do they only use him as a recorder? Thats why i say he is weak. If u have a gun and u are up against a person with a knife, do u not use the gun??
Why use him only as a recorder if his combat ability is great?

2. No offense but it is getting ridiculous how u equate stealth with insane power and u are making major baseless assumptions cause i dont see the sense in zetsu being strong at all considering how the story is developing.

3. Stealth is gd but not gd enough from how the story goes . Stealth isnt much. There is no way no matter how much stealth u have can u ever sneak up on anyone like itachi and kakashi and land a powerful blow. U can be unseen but u cant act. Zabuza wasnt much either, he got killed by kakashi in the first couple of episodes, kakashi is alot stronger now and even has a stronger sharingan.

well, i guess we just see things differently. Oh well.
I've numbered these so no one will get confused.

1. That is true, but have you ever heard that the greatest weapon is one
that you never have to fire. Maybe he is very powerful, like a gun, but they
know a better way of winning than by using it. Like the man has a knife, and
you have a gun. Well you could just shoot him there, or you could just stall
him until a better oppurtunity asserts itself. Have you also thought about if
the gun would actually be willing to fire. Zetsu's dark side may be very
powerful, but have you ever thought that the light side may control Zetsu's
actions just as much as his dark side, and maybe it stops him from killing
anyone.

2. I am going to assume you have also heard about how you can end a war before it even starts. Zetsu may not have what you would call "insane power"
but even without any physical strength, you can kill anyone if there are two
conditions- 1. You can get near anyone without them knowing you are there,
and 2. You are close enough to the person so that you can perform a fatal
strike without them being able to attack. Just think, even my brother could
stab someone through the heart if they have a sharp enough blade.

3. For the most part see above. The only thing that I wanna say is that the
first time Zetsu appeared in the anime, he was right below Kakashi almost
the whole time, and Kakashi was none the wiser. Just think about what Zetsu
could have done if he had wanted to kill Kakashi.

That is all I want to say.
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Old 2008-04-28, 22:59   Link #83
skurai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharfan View Post
I've numbered these so no one will get confused.
3. For the most part see above. The only thing that I wanna say is that the
first time Zetsu appeared in the anime, he was right below Kakashi almost
the whole time, and Kakashi was none the wiser. Just think about what Zetsu
could have done if he had wanted to kill Kakashi.

That is all I want to say.
And if thats the case, why didnt zetsu kill kakashi?? Dont tell me zetsu is another good guy like itachi was?
Its cause he couldnt do it even when he was that close which is why i say he is weak. If he wasnt weak, a few konoha shinobis would be dead already.

It would totally make no sense if he turns out to be strong cause that would mean that he let kakashi live when he could have killed kakashi? lol?
They are enemies u know.
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Old 2008-04-28, 23:12   Link #84
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skurai View Post
And if thats the case, why didnt zetsu kill kakashi?? Dont tell me zetsu is another good guy like itachi was?
Its cause he couldnt do it even when he was that close which is why i say he is weak. If he wasnt weak, a few konoha shinobis would be dead already.

It would totally make no sense if he turns out to be strong cause that would mean that he let kakashi live when he could have killed kakashi? lol?
They are enemies u know.
Why would he kill Kakashi?...What purpose would that serve? Simply because he did not kill Kakashi, that means he can not? That is not very reasonable at all. Added to that, what makes Kakashi Zetsu's enemy; I can see Zetsu being Kakashi's enemy, but I see no reason why Zetsu would care at all about Kakashi unless Kakashi is actively trying to hurt Zetsu.

Simply because Zetsu does not attack someone, that does not logically lead to him being "weak" or unable to fight or kill. Rather, the fact that he is part of the Akatsuki, an organization where each member is supposedly Hokage-level, or at least close, logically leads to the conclusion that Zetsu is strong.

Added to that, he seems to be an ally of Madara's, or at least a decent level servent, and since Madara is big on secrecy (only 4 people, besides Sasuke, have been introduced that know of Madara's existence) I do not see why he would choose a "weak" person to know of his identity. Specifically, if Zetsu was weak, that means he could be captured and tortured for information thus revealing Madara's existance. That would put a damper on Madara's plans if he was discovered pre-maturely. Rather it only makes sense for Zetsu to be strong enough that he can fight off the people trying to capture him if not outright defeat them.

In the end, there is no reason to assume that Zetsu is weak, but there is some reason to assume that he is strong.
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Old 2008-04-29, 07:19   Link #85
skurai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james3wk View Post
Why would he kill Kakashi?...What purpose would that serve? Simply because he did not kill Kakashi, that means he can not? That is not very reasonable at all. Added to that, what makes Kakashi Zetsu's enemy; I can see Zetsu being Kakashi's enemy, but I see no reason why Zetsu would care at all about Kakashi unless Kakashi is actively trying to hurt Zetsu.
Zetsu would kill cause kakashi and akatsuki are enemies?? If he can, he would have by now. The fact that he has such opportunities and nvr took them is hard evidence u know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by james3wk View Post
Simply because Zetsu does not attack someone, that does not logically lead to him being "weak" or unable to fight or kill. Rather, the fact that he is part of the Akatsuki, an organization where each member is supposedly Hokage-level, or at least close, logically leads to the conclusion that Zetsu is strong.

Added to that, he seems to be an ally of Madara's, or at least a decent level servent, and since Madara is big on secrecy (only 4 people, besides Sasuke, have been introduced that know of Madara's existence) I do not see why he would choose a "weak" person to know of his identity. Specifically, if Zetsu was weak, that means he could be captured and tortured for information thus revealing Madara's existance. That would put a damper on Madara's plans if he was discovered pre-maturely. Rather it only makes sense for Zetsu to be strong enough that he can fight off the people trying to capture him if not outright defeat them.
In the end, there is no reason to assume that Zetsu is weak, but there is some reason to assume that he is strong.
I dunno where u get the hokage level part from. I assume u have watched enough animes by now to know that there are weak ppl in strong organizations. For example, the gillian espada that was an espada simply because he can change shape. And heck, he died to 1 shikai attack lol.

This zetsu is in akatsuki simply cause he can record and hide. That is sense. The power part is totally senseless. If he was strong, akatsuki would have to be retarded to not have used him to take down/delay a few enemy shinobis by now.

I believe this is just ur fan support talking.
As for being tortured?? He is good at evading,hiding, running. He isnt easy to capture.
I dont think the akatsuki show mercy or give chances to its opponents lol
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Old 2008-04-29, 12:57   Link #86
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skurai View Post
Zetsu would kill cause kakashi and akatsuki are enemies?? If he can, he would have by now. The fact that he has such opportunities and nvr took them is hard evidence u know.
Zetsu has no reason to assume that Kakashi is an enemy. Specifically, Zetsu has no reason to care about Kakashi. It is Kakashi that would try and fight Zetsu, not the other way around.


Quote:
Originally Posted by skurai View Post
I dunno where u get the hokage level part from.

This zetsu is in akatsuki simply cause he can record and hide. That is sense. The power part is totally senseless. If he was strong, akatsuki would have to be retarded to not have used him to take down/delay a few enemy shinobis by now.
All of the Akatsuki have been described (by Jiraiya in particular) are S-rank missing-nin which is supposedly Hokage-level. You need only look in a data book, check wikipedia, or simply go back through the manga and read the various comments about Akatsuki. All are described this way, and all that have fought have shown themselves to be near that level.

And, again, simply because we have not seem him doing anything does not make him weak. Using your Bleach example, we have not seen Halibel (the hot dark skinned Espada) do a single thing...yet, so does that mean Yourichi and Soi-fon are going to have an easy time taking her down. I mean we have not seen Halibel fight when she could have (against Grimjow and then Ichigo), so she has to be weak (if we use your logic at least that simply because someone is weak they do not fight when they could). (an even better example would be Luppi, who has done nothing but for a time had Grimmjow's rank...does that mean that Luppi is strong (since he was compared to Grimmjow) or is he weak simply because he has not fought?)

Additionally, if you would remember, Aaroniero Arruruerie, the Espada you claimed was an indicator of a weak person in a strong group (even though Szayel and Zommari were also ridiculously weak), was not known to be weak, in fact everyone thought he would strong...and since he nearly killed his target, that means everyone was right, he was strong, just not as strong as the others.

Added to that, if you have seen enough anime/read enough manga, you would tend to notice that organization tend to level up as you get to the boss, so using that simplistic logic, Zetsu will be more powerful than those members that are now dead (maybe not Itachi) or have been beaten.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skurai View Post
I believe this is just ur fan support talking.
As for being tortured?? He is good at evading,hiding, running. He isnt easy to capture.
So, now you admit that he has abilities that make it impossible for someone of Kakashi's level to capture him...yet you still think that Zetsu is not strong?

And I am not using "fan-logic", I am using simple logic. If you have not seen someone fight, that does not mean that they are weak, it simply means that they have not fought.

Rather it is "highly illogical" to assume defeat before the battle even starts. It simply makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by skurai View Post
I dont think the akatsuki show mercy or give chances to its opponents lol
except Itachi (who you have argued for extensively)...and Kisame...and Hidan...and Kakuzu...and Sasori...and Madara. Wow, that is only 6 out of 9 that needlessly delay their fights (give chances) for no reason. Oh yeah, and I guess Zetsu is on that list as well, since he does ot strike first or strike to kill. So, that is 7 out of 9.
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Old 2008-04-29, 20:17   Link #87
Sharfan
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Also, skurai, don't you think that if Zetsu is most usefull for hiding from and recording battles, that it would just be stupid to use him as a fighter, even if he is very strong. If he killed someone important, don't you think the "good" shinobi would try harder to find and kill Zetsu. If you have someone that is best at spying for you, do you think you would risk the chance that every "good" guy would be looking for him, even if this spy has a black belt in karate, advanced weapons training, and an extensive arsenal of very powerful weapons. If you already have enough strong fighters, why use the spy just to add to it, when it is better to keep him as a spy. Maybe once Madara runs out of disposable fighters, he will use Zetsu to his fullest extent.

Last edited by Sharfan; 2008-04-29 at 21:33.
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Old 2008-04-29, 23:42   Link #88
skurai
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Originally Posted by james3wk View Post
Zetsu has no reason to assume that Kakashi is an enemy. Specifically, Zetsu has no reason to care about Kakashi. It is Kakashi that would try and fight Zetsu, not the other way around.
Dude, they are enemies. I assume zetsu isnt retarded lol. He knows kakashi and the whole konoha village are his enemies. Lol, your fan support for this guy is truly enormous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by james3wk View Post
except Itachi (who you have argued for extensively)...and Kisame...and Hidan...and Kakuzu...and Sasori...and Madara. Wow, that is only 6 out of 9 that needlessly delay their fights (give chances) for no reason. Oh yeah, and I guess Zetsu is on that list as well, since he does ot strike first or strike to kill. So, that is 7 out of 9.
Since when???
Hidan, kakuzu try their best to kill. In fact, they killed Asuma when they could and god knows they tried their best to do it.

Sasori, madara never had a good opportunity to kill. Sasori used his all in his fight. I seriously dunno wat u are talking about.
Sasori had some emotional connection.
U expect madara to take on that many shinobis then? Thats crazy.

Kakuzu and hidan tried their best and died. Heck, hidan even tried to kill shikamaru wif blood link but was tricked. U wont see him letting an opportunity like that go unlike itachi who was a gd guy and zetsu who is unable to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by james3wk View Post
So, now you admit that he has abilities that make it impossible for someone of Kakashi's level to capture him...yet you still think that Zetsu is not strong?

And I am not using "fan-logic", I am using simple logic. If you have not seen someone fight, that does not mean that they are weak, it simply means that they have not fought.

Rather it is "highly illogical" to assume defeat before the battle even starts. It simply makes no sense.
Dude, if that is highly illogical, close this forum down cause all forms of speculation is illogical. Its perfectly fine to learn about something from how it/he acts. This concept happens in naruto and real life 24/7,

Zetsu= good at hiding, thus hard to capture.
Zetsu = weak at combat cause if he was strong, kakashi would be dead. Understand?
He is only good at hiding. If he even had anything close to itachi's power, he would have whacked kakashi long ago.

Wow, at this point i will stop discussing cause your fan support is too enormous lol.

Cause if zetsu is strong, kakashi would have gotten whacked---> as logical as it gets here. I am sure zetsu will be glad to have u as his fan.

Zetsu is so weak that even if he had that major stealth advantage over kakashi then, he would be unable to kill kakashi. Letting a golden opportunity go is obviously incompetence, not mercy, not fear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharfan View Post
Also, skurai, don't you think that if Zetsu is most usefull for hiding from and recording battles, that it would just be stupid to use him as a fighter, even if he is very strong. If he killed someone important, don't you think the "good" shinobi would try harder to find and kill Zetsu. If you have someone that is best at spying for you, do you think you would risk the chance that every "good" guy would be looking for him, even if this spy has a black belt in karate, advanced weapons training, and an extensive arsenal of very powerful weapons. If you already have enough strong fighters, why use the spy just to add to it, when it is better to keep him as a spy. Maybe once Madara runs out of disposable fighters, he will use Zetsu to his fullest extent.
Why in the world would it be stupid to use a strong person to fight??
In that case, madara,pein,etc shouldnt be fighting either.
We dont even know how important zetsu is exactly.

Why that reasoning is flawed:
Firstly, dude, if zetsu is strong in combat, he will take kakashi down then and he wont die easily in combat.
Secondly, he is very very good at evading and hiding, the best out there. He is gonna be the very hardest to kill u know.
And to kill an opponent like kakashi is definitely more than worth it.
U are talking about a weakling who is too weak to kill when he had the chance.
Even madara, who is more important than zetsu , has entered battle. Zetsu could probably hide/evade better than madara as it is though madara is more mobile.

I have nthg against the guy but everything points to him being weak and it wont make sense for him to be strong.


Huge fan support should not undermine logic imo.
Konoha never act based on revenge. Its always about completing the objective. As for shikamaru's case, those ppl were his opponents after all.


P.S> I assume your fan support for him is still very strong so I suggest we just wait and see. The only way i see him being strong is if they implanted a kyuubi into him or something.
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Old 2008-04-29, 23:56   Link #89
Sharfan
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Alright, skurai, I guess I can't spend every waking minute trying to convince you. You are entitled to your own oppinions. Even though you are one of the only ones here saying he is that weak, yhat is how it is supposed to be. Every thread needs someone to keep the conversation going and give others something to do. And, who knows, maybe your right. Maybe Zetsu will be weak. Maybe he is only there to cause fear in others, idk. All I know is from where I'm sitting, it looks like he will be a very tough guy, but hey that is just my opinion. And hey that is what this is all about. . But don't expect me to completely stop arguing. After all, I have to protect my opinions. Hehehe.
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Old 2008-04-30, 00:03   Link #90
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I am sure i am nt the only one who thinks he is weak. This thread for one thing is only 5 pages long. Major zetsu fans come in here i guess.

I seriously doubt he is strong. Its a little like how a shinigami can only be so strong. If u are gd at something, u are bad at others. What u are saying is that zetsu is gd at stealth (known), gd at combat, gd at recording,etc. Overall, that would make him incredibly strong. Doesnt seem right even. Evidence seems to say otherwise as well.

And i really have nthg against the guy u know, everything juz points to him being weak. I guess we have different opinions here. Will be interesting to see wat happens(though its gonna take weeks or months -.- )

I guess we just have different points of view here.
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Old 2008-04-30, 01:00   Link #91
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Originally Posted by skurai View Post
Sasori, madara never had a good opportunity to kill. Sasori used his all in his fight. I seriously dunno wat u are talking about.
Sasori had some emotional connection.
Do you even understand how silly this sounds. So, it is okay for Sasori and Madara to "never have a good oportunity to kill" (which is blantantly false considering that both had ample oportunities to kill many of the people that they have faced), but when Zetsu does the exact same thing (against the exact same foe in fact) you automatically assume that he is weaker .

Let me put it this way, just recently Madara had the chance to take out two very important Shinobi (Kakashi and Yamato), but he didn't. Well, following your own logic, then Madara must be weak. Madara had ample opportunity to attack and kill both Kakashi and Yamato (both people you consider enemies to the Akatsuki), but he did not kill them. So, using your own logic that not killing a foe when you could = being weak, then Madara has to be weak there is no other answer usng your logic.

Your obvious response to this would be along the line of Madara being an Uchiha or being the other leader, but, so what? Your specific logic (weak if you do not fight when you can) only accounts for the situation at hand, if we are to take in other factors, such as past etc., then your logic reaches its limits and breaks, that means there is more than just the situation at hand. And if there is more going on than just the surface layer perception, then it becomes impossible to determine that someone is weaker simply because they do not fight (in fact you even acknowledge this by saying that Sasori lost his fight due to an emotional connection, which indicates that knowledge beyond the basic situation needs to be considered when talking about who is weaker or who is stronger (Sarutobi also partially fits into this category as well)).

If you can dispute an argument by simply poking one hole in it, then that means that your intial logic is faulty (I just destroyed your entire argument by simply changing the name Zetsu with Madara and exploring the possibilities). If you think Madara, a man cloaked in mystery as to his real abilities etc., can defeat Kakashi and Yamato, then why would you even begin to think that Zetsu, a creatue even more mysterious than Madara, could potentially lose to Kakashi etc.. You have absolutely no proof that Zetsu is weak, rather you are unecessarily being bigoted towards him for no reason what so ever.

Just stop with the excessively futile and silly realm of reasoning, it has nothing to do with the reality of the situation, only what you think is going on (you think that Zetsu is weak, fine, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but please actually try and use evidence to support you claim, and not evidence that is so flimsy).

Quote:
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Wow, at this point i will stop discussing cause your fan support is too enormous lol.
Cause if zetsu is strong, kakashi would have gotten whacked---> as logical as it gets here. I am sure zetsu will be glad to have u as his fan.
Do you really not understand that you are not using logic, you are not even using the manga as evidence. You are making a blanket statement based on absolutely no evidence and then accusing others as if they are at fault for disagreeing with you. Not only is that silly, but it is down right childish (btw, you do not have to be a fan of Zetsu to disagree with you, you just have to be a fan of honest speculation - I disagree with you because I find your logic relentlessly false or inadequete, not because I like or dislike Zetsu). I do agree, there is no point in continuing to talk to each other (I guess that is all we agree on ).

Last edited by james0246; 2008-04-30 at 02:17.
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Old 2008-04-30, 06:29   Link #92
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???????????????
Madara never had the chance to take out kakashi and yammamoto or I assure u, they would be dead. U keep making things up and it is getting annoying. Notice how u are the only one who says such things??? No one else ever says such. I actually quote things that happen u know.

They are enemies for gods sakes, if they had the chance, they would kill unless they cant. Hidan killed asuma when he could. Zetsu didnt kill kakashi when he had a good shot (cause he cant, duh)

Anyways, i do read some of your posts in other threads and i do notice your huge fan support for something undermines everything else in some posts to the point u make things up. Thus, i tire of this ridiculousness and i dont think its of any use to continue.


I actually dont like or hate zetsu ---> I said this a few times now.
Anyways, let juz watch, I bet we are gonna see how weak he is, soon. He is only recon.

Just ask yourself:
What has zetsu ever done to show he has no combat ability??--> I answered that in previous posts.
What has zetsu ever done to show he has combat ability??---> Nothing, its pure fan support.

P.S> btw that wouldnt be my response to the question u ask. Its not about madara being the leader,etc . Its about a weak ninja who cant kill a strong enemy when he had a very good chance of doing so. Its cause he cant. Any other akatsuki member probably wont let a golden opportunity go. Considering how mobile zetsu is, if he is strong, he would be a huge asset and would be used by now. I dont think he is even given tasks to capture jinchuruuki. Possible that its cause he aint strong enough.

I guess u can only say some funny thing about logic since u got no real points.
And yeah, probably should stop discussing this cause it doesnt look like it will go anywhere. Lets juz watch. I say zetsu is weak unless they implant some jinchuruuki or some new power into him. Gd day.

Last edited by skurai; 2008-04-30 at 06:41.
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Old 2008-04-30, 16:54   Link #93
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Now I think we should stop fighting about if he is weak or strong. We need to get back to the real reason of this thread. Discussing what his purpose he has, or even what he is. I don't know about anyone else but fighting a battle with no hard evidence, according to skurai, is getting very tiring, and I would very much like to see what his purpose is. And as soon as we see some evidence of his strength, we can post it and then we will have "hard" evidence to help us in this discussion. Thank you, that is all I have to say.
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Old 2008-05-02, 03:50   Link #94
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great, so now he goes to personal attacks since he has no points lol.

@sharfan
lol so now its my purpose?? Just participating in the thread. Same purpose as yours and others. Well yeah, lets stop. I juz learned the power of fan support anyways. I guess u 2 are major fan supporters of zetsu. I am just neutral.
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Old 2008-05-02, 04:34   Link #95
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great, so now he goes to personal attacks since he has no points lol.
I wasn't going to respond, but I felt I should try and clear the air one more time; it is never good to leave on a bitter note or feeling that you have been slighted (if you had not commented or appeared in the Naruto forum in another day or so, I would have sent this message to your inbox ).

I am just going to lay down what I know...

I know nothing. I have said multiple times that I am unsure of what Zetsu can or cannot do in a fight. I even said, when we started out 'conversation', that Zetsu will, if he dies, come to a fairly stupid end, much the same as the majority of the other Akatsuki. I do not know if Zetsu is strong or weak (something I have said repeatedly), but the possibility for him being strong seems a little higher than the possibility of him being weak for the simple reason that he is in Akatsuki (a confirmed group soley consisting of S-Rank Shinobi).

My "problem" with your argument stemmed from the fact that you, seemingly, arbitraily deemed Zetsu weak simply because he has not fought yet, or he might have had a chance to fight, but he did not (btw, what chapter specifically were you talking about in regards to Zetsu not battling Kakashi when he could, I am still unclear). I found that to be a horrendous use of logic and felt compelled to respond, trying to understand your position further. Sadly enough, conversation soon broke down, and we ended up here (btw, I am sorry if you jumped to the conclusion that I was fighting for/a fan of Zetsu, I, personally, am not a fan of the character (not yet at least), and I do not believe that you can actually be a fan of a character that has only appeared a few times and has done nothing of value yet (that is why I do not understand how some can claim to be a fan of Madara, but that is a conversation for another thread and another time)). In the end I was only trying to understand your logic or to get you to understand my disagreement with your logic.

The only point I had for you, that I seem to have failed to prove to your standards, was the fact, or maybe it is a belief, that you can not decide a characters strength/level before they actually fight or show what they are capable of. I said this repeatedly, but I assume I did not say it in a way that was believable to you. For that, I am sorry.

In the end, I felt I should offer up an olive branch, of sorts. I remember the old messageboard flame wars of the early 90s, and I remember the bitter hostilities that can form due to differing opnions. Since then, I have always tried to end any argument/debate/conversation amiably or at least offer up my thanks and appreciation once we have finsihed our conversation since, in the end, that is what these forums are for, the spreading of different opinions and ideas. If nothing else, I hope you have a good day .
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Old 2008-05-02, 05:16   Link #96
skurai
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I wasn't going to respond, but I felt I should try and
My "problem" with your argument stemmed from the fact that you, seemingly, arbitraily deemed Zetsu weak simply because he has not fought yet, or he might have had a chance to fight, but he did not (btw, what chapter specifically were you talking about in regards to Zetsu not battling Kakashi when he could, I am still unclear). I found that to be a horrendous use of logic and felt compelled to respond, trying to understand your position further. Sadly enough, conversation soon broke down, and we ended up here (btw, I am sorry if you jumped to the conclusion that I was fighting for/a fan of Zetsu, I, personally, am not a fan of the character (not yet at least), and I do not believe that you can actually be a fan of a character that has only appeared a few times and has done nothing of value yet (that is why I do not understand how some can claim to be a fan of Madara, but that is a conversation for another thread and another time)). In the end I was only trying to understand your logic or to get you to understand my disagreement with your logic.
I dont want flame-wars either.

And if u look back at any of my posts. I have constantly said that my argument is that "zetsu didnt attack the enemy when he had a damn good chance to do so".

U keep ignoring it or manipulating it to something like "he might have had a chance to fight, but he did not" (these are your own words above in the quote),etc.

Its not about had a chance to fight. Its about had a good opportunity/an-opening but didnt take it. Its probably cause he cant. Its as logical as it can possibly get unless he turns out to be another gd guy like itachi. Zetsu is more like an admin personnel, taking down notes, recording,etc.

This is why i say its useless to continue since u blatantly straight-forwardly ignore the main point or tweak it to become something else in every reply. Even this one.
So that being said, lets juz say we have different views and support of characters.
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Old 2008-05-02, 12:03   Link #97
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Its not about had a chance to fight. Its about had a good opportunity/an-opening but didnt take it. Its probably cause he cant. Its as logical as it can possibly get unless he turns out to be another gd guy like itachi. Zetsu is more like an admin personnel, taking down notes, recording,etc.
Thak you for responding. It is always good to clear the air.

I am sorry if you think I "tweak" your point. One of the first lessons of a logic class is to teach the students to take a seemingly logical argument and then find the absolute silliest extreme that you can come up with. If you can come up with such a silly almost otherwordly extreme, then that means that the intial logic is invalid or at least flawed. If you feel I was doing this incorrectly, that is fine. I am sorry that you feel that way.

Finally, All I ask, then, is for you, or someone else that has been reading our remarks, to tell me the chapter in which Zetsu "had a good opening, but didn't take it", because I am honestly confused as to which chapter that come from. That is all I want to know.

In the end, I, again, wish to urge you not to 'leave' bitter. Or if you are bitter, keep it to this thread .

Last edited by james0246; 2008-05-02 at 14:21.
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Old 2008-05-02, 17:53   Link #98
Sharfan
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Finally, All I ask, then, is for you, or someone else that has been reading our remarks, to tell me the chapter in which Zetsu "had a good opening, but didn't take it", because I am honestly confused as to which chapter that come from. That is all I want to know.
It is in the anime at the first battle that naruto use the four-tailed kyuubi form. I know it was a little wrong to bring it into the manga forum, but I felt that it might help prove a point at the time.

@skurai- I did not mean to offend you. When I was talking about someone's purpose I meant Zetsu. I guess it is a little unclear. Anyways, All I was trying to do was to end this battle, because I am tired of having to fight everyone (mostly out of the forum). And our so called fan support. Yes I did say I was a fan, but that does not mean I would fight with you to defend his honor just because I am a fan. One more thing, when you were talking about how if a person is strong at one thing, he has to be weak at something else. Well, have you thought that he was good at stealth and he is really strong, but he has such a great weakness that it makes him weary of attacking, even if he has an opening. Like maybe it takes too much chakra to stay under the ground so long that he doesn't want to waste his remaining energy fighting. Even then, I agree with you that there is just as much evidence of him being weak as with him being strong. The thing that I take issue with is that you only look at the evidence of him being weak. In my opinion, he will be strong, but I am not completely oblivious to the possibility of him being weak. Will you at least consider the possibility of him being strong and the facts that support it. And please don't reply with a hateful remark, I really do want everyone to stay calm and rational while they are posting. Thank You.
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Old 2008-05-02, 18:08   Link #99
james0246
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It is in the anime at the first battle that naruto use the tailed kyuubi form. I know it was a little wrong to bring it into the manga forum, but I felt that it might help prove a point at the time.
You are correct. Chapter 234 is undoubtedly the evidence skurai is quoting/paraphasing.
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Old 2008-05-03, 07:50   Link #100
skurai
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Like maybe it takes too much chakra to stay under the ground so long that he doesn't want to waste his remaining energy fighting. Even then, I agree with you that there is just as much evidence of him being weak as with him being strong.


The thing that I take issue with is that you only look at the evidence of him being weak. In my opinion, he will be strong, but I am not completely oblivious to the possibility of him being weak. Will you at least consider the possibility of him being strong and the facts that support it. And please don't reply with a hateful remark, I really do want everyone to stay calm and rational while they are posting. Thank You.

Sure, it could be cause he was using too much chakra staying in the ground or
he could have been feeling sick, had a fever or
he didnt wanna attack kakashi cause he is gay and attracted to kakashi??
---> this isnt a hateful remark either. Its just to illustrate wat it looks like when u are have fan support. The thing is, it could be a million reasons then if u add in all sorts of "wat ifs".

See wat i mean by fan support?? There is good evidence that he cannot do combat and nthg to suggest that he is strong at all.

@jameshawk
Far from bitter over here.

Its obvious we wont change each other's minds. So lets wait and see. My guess is that his combat ability is low and he will only have good combat ability if he receives some kinda new power.
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