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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 19 Rating
Perfect 10 89 40.45%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 61 27.73%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 40 18.18%
7 out of 10 : Good 20 9.09%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 1.36%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 0.91%
4 out of 10 : Poor 3 1.36%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.45%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.45%
Voters: 220. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-02-20, 03:27   Link #521
06294086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
I have visions of an enraged Saji chasing Ali down on his pizza delievery motorbike, bullets whizzing by his head, Ali shocked by how crazy he is, and as soon as Saji catches up, he hurls a pepporoni and cheese onto the windshield, causing Ali to have a spectaculor and firery end.
I don't think it will be enough to shock him

He will be crazy enough and simply say "Hey brat, trying to play hero and kill me, huh ?, Hahaha !!!" "Lemme teach you how to become a real, bad guy"

Ali might even still laughed at him whenever what, kinda reminds me of Sosuke's crazy enemy - Gaurun in Full Metal Panic
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Old 2008-02-20, 03:30   Link #522
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Originally Posted by mechalord View Post
Saji is a bland boy who walked away from his girlfriend. He was sheltered by his sister. The disaster that ravaged his girlfriend didn't change him but it opened his heart to grief, something he had denied himself is his rather sterile and bland existence.

Bam! His sister dies. He is enraged. Eveyrthing he has held in comes out. He feels regret. He remembers not having the guts to tell Louise he loved her, he remembers the day his parents died, he realizes his sister is dead. He realizes that he is ALONE!

He's pissed. He drops out of school, sets to hunt down Lagna with the thought of assassinating him. He runs into Setsuna at his apartment. He notices something is wrong with Saji. Saji tells him what happened but doesn't tell him what he has planned. Setsuna breaks into his apartment and finds the stuff about Lagna, Louise, and Kinue! OH no!

Setsuna stops him, he lets him into his world.

Saji joins up with CB and eventually plugs some bullets into Lagna.

In the final episode, Setsuna dies saving Saji and Saji sees exactly what Setsuna did when he was a child. He sees Setsuna become a Gundam. This inspires Saji.

Saji meets up with Louise, broken. He tells her what he has done, how he killed some dude, how it felt to avenge both their families,. He tells her how he feels, how he has also changed, and how his dreams are no longer innocent. Saji left her a boy, comes back a man.

Saji takes the place of Setsuna. Setsuna (vaguely) "dies" a hero.

That would be the perfect final episode. Saji is one of the last men standing. Season ends with him walking up to Louise's door and doing what he never had the guts of doing. He smacks on her the lips. . .season 1 is over.
That's COOL !!

Then Saji will became one of those "good" guys in hard-boiled movies...

And someone will publish his book "Saji - a Journey from a BRAT to a MAN "
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Old 2008-02-20, 03:36   Link #523
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Ah, but you fail to make the connection that just because you think they look the same to you, it doesn't mean it looks the same to him. Just as the members of the group Hamas in the Gaza Strip might look "identical", doesn't mean they don't have their own disagreements.

From my foreign perspective, the so called "Democrats" and "Republicans" in American politics look all the same to me. But they are obviously different to each other in their own eyes.

You think Setsuna did terrible things, and that's fair enough from the evidence. But that has nothing to do with Setsuna's view of what HE think is right or wrong. Different people have different priorities, and it is his choice to consider the Thrones as scum.

As for getting angry at Ali? After being told to kill your own parents in the name of God, only to find out your leader is an atheist who was just toying with your beliefs ?
It's no use to get mad at Ali because he is a MADMAN !

If you get mad at him, he will simply laugh at you and said "this brat wants to become some wise guy, eh ?" "I'll kiss your ass with this plasma saber"

Definitely not the sort of guy that I personally want to get involved with...
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Old 2008-02-20, 03:39   Link #524
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Originally Posted by 06294086 View Post
It's no use to get mad at Ali because he is a MADMAN !

If you get mad at him, he will simply laugh at you and said "this brat wants to become some wise guy, eh ?" "I'll kiss your ass with this plasma saber"

Definitely not the sort of guy that I personally want to get involved with...
Setsuna cooly kills Ali and quotes "Mission Complete"? I can't say the build up to their confrontations has left me on the edge of my seat, but wouldn't you say something like that would be anti-climatic?
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Old 2008-02-20, 03:47   Link #525
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Originally Posted by Bring d0wn tEh Sky View Post
Saji has no balls at all. We've seen that during the first 19 episods. And he's ghey cause he refused to kiss Louise. Lame of him. He doesn't deserve her. If it was me Louise would not be a virgin anymore. Stupid noobish Saji. Even his name is stupid. Yes, character bash but I mean it
Yea, why didn't he ever think of banging her when everything was fine ?

Ok, that's may sound a bit extreme...

But at least he can do what a "real" man do to his girl, when Louise was hospitalized : Hug her tightly
and kiss her passionately and whisper this to her "Don't worry baby, I'll definitely be back to you."

Ah yes, don't forget to wink and smile *SPARKLE* - you can see his white teeth (?) sparkling

Now that's what I call a "REAL" MAN !!!

C'mon dude, show 'em that you got "balls" -WHOOPS- I mean "guts"

Do you need Louise to spank your ass everytime ?

Last edited by 06294086; 2008-02-20 at 06:19.
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Old 2008-02-20, 03:55   Link #526
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It's no use to get mad at Ali because he is a MADMAN !

If you get mad at him, he will simply laugh at you and said "this brat wants to become some wise guy, eh ?" "I'll kiss your ass with this plasma saber"

Definitely not the sort of guy that I personally want to get involved with...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Setsuna cooly kills Ali and quotes "Mission Complete"? I can't say the build up to their confrontations has left me on the edge of my seat, but wouldn't you say something like that would be anti-climatic?
Yep, Ali said that lines and afterward Setsuna kicked his ass and simply said "Mission Complete" with
his right's hand middle finger UP - the famous sign for f*** y**

Now that's what I call COOL Someone can send this suggestion to the plot writer

On the other hand, if Saji tries to become a hero, it will be he who has his ass kicked by Ali...

Last edited by 06294086; 2008-02-20 at 05:26.
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Old 2008-02-20, 05:21   Link #527
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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
If I wanted "looking cool" for no reason, I'd watch Bleach. It simply rings hollow with me to watch the Meisters almost literally play "Good guys and Bad guys". You know, I think an analogy might be a group of kids running amok in a super market, with no one able to discipline them or find their parents.

That's who the Meisters are. A group of children that no one tells to behave. I think this show would have been better served if they were literally children, rather than the adult/near-adults they are. At least then it could be a novelty, rather than an annoyance.
No offence, but Bleach is one of the most mindless anime ive ever seen.
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Old 2008-02-20, 05:28   Link #528
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As for Setsuna being eccentric, I think that's part of his persona. He lost God, his family, his country, his purpose. You'd think anybody in that situation is ambiguous, eccentric, what have you. It seem befitting IMO. Almost like how Heero Yuy was a contradiction in a nutshell with him being a mindless killing machine and yet still a human boy.
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Old 2008-02-20, 05:34   Link #529
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Originally Posted by Tkpenalty View Post
No offence, but Bleach is one of the most mindless anime ive ever seen.
Take a look at the manga too, it's even crazier than the anime in the latest chapters

Last edited by 06294086; 2008-02-20 at 06:19.
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Old 2008-02-20, 06:19   Link #530
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Spoiler for Obama verses Hilary type numbers:




He sees the Gundam as a symbolic vehicle that while has a goal of eradicating war by questionable means, never should it stand for the most malicious of intentions such as KILLING CIVILIANS FOR FUN and//or needlessly murdering civilians (Nevermind doing it in a playful fashion)...

Setsuna: Eradicate War without sullying or tarnishing his IDEAL image of the Gundam...

Thrones: Eradicate war by all means, with no regard for human life on any level (With obviously no level of appreciation for how the Gundam is depicted)
Thrones starts wars e.g. Nena vs Wedding party.
Nena: 1
Wedding party: 0
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Old 2008-02-20, 06:34   Link #531
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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
He's never expressed concerns for the innocent, the wedding, or defined his role as being a protector or savior. Please try again.
Refer to EP18 13:11. After the attack on the wedding party,
Spoiler for Reference:

It's clear Setsuna is concern with the innocent civilians from both the wedding party and the factory.

Please try again.

Last edited by encia; 2008-02-20 at 07:03.
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Old 2008-02-20, 06:38   Link #532
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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
So to Setsuna a Gundam should be used to end wars and targeting civilians, according to him, incites war? A Gundam should not incite war, which is what he believes the Thrones are doing? I don't really buy into "tarnishing the image of Gundam" simply by killing civilians, but if it's a simply a difference of opinion what incites war and what does not, sure. He can get as mad as he wants and it's not like he's ever cared about reasoning and arguing before.
To quote Unionís American President i.e. UN without the bureaucracy (referring to the original CB).
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Old 2008-02-20, 06:50   Link #533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
(SNIP)
What's funny is Nena didn't even seem to enjoy doing that.
Refer to
1. EP18 ~01:06, Nena laugh/giggle with the base’s destruction.
2. EP18 ~11:57, Nena Vs Wedding party..
Spoiler for Reference:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Judge, jury, and executioner. That sums up Tieria Erde's job description, and there's little indication that he's actually qualified for the job. If he were a mindless drone, it'd make sense, but he's not. He's a spiteful, aroggant son of a bitch, that hates humans.
Tieria is not a mindless drone i.e. not in same level Star Trek's Borg drones or zombies.
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Old 2008-02-20, 08:34   Link #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by encia View Post
Refer to EP18 13:11. After the attack on the wedding party,
Spoiler for Reference:

It's clear Setsuna is concern with the innocent civilians from both the wedding party and the factory.

Please try again.
That seems too simple somehow. He doesn't seem to mind it when civilians are killed at his hands. It doesn't even seem like he has any regrets or blames himself for anything he's ever done. And being a former terrorist should have taught him there's no such thing as a "civilian".

It's just too bad there's no precedent for Gundam theology. He's something of a Prophet don't you think?

Nena laughing, smiling, and sticking out her tongue always seems forced or programmed to me. Now, it may be just how she's portrayed in her most notable scenes, but I have a hard time believeing she feels anything. We'll see if her character ever invests herself in anything other than being cute or yandereish.

I said it'd make more sense for Tieria to be a mindless drone, not that he was.
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Old 2008-02-20, 08:48   Link #535
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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
That seems too simple somehow. He doesn't seem to mind it when civilians are killed at his hands. It doesn't even seem like he has any regrets or blames himself for anything he's ever done.
What were you looking for in terms of regret or self-blame? Setsuna directed his energy towards his goal of "being a Gundam", so any kind of stereotypical wrist-slitting and crying in dark corners aren't happening here.

Setsuna sees hallucinations of death and destruction on a regular basis. It happened so often that he stopped paying attention to them.

What are you asking him to do?
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Old 2008-02-20, 09:02   Link #536
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
What were you looking for in terms of regret or self-blame? Setsuna directed his energy towards his goal of "being a Gundam", so any kind of stereotypical wrist-slitting and crying in dark corners aren't happening here.
Is simply saying so too much to ask? Why he wants to become a Gundam (whatever that is) isn't something I seem able to understand or is clear to me, which is why I keep asking for it to be put into concrete terms that makes sense considering everything he's ever said or done all at the same time. Everything.

Quote:
Setsuna sees hallucinations of death and destruction on a regular basis. It happened so often that he stopped paying attention to them.
Or he's simply most comfortable with that sort of setting. That's the way I see it.

Quote:
What are you asking him to do?
Talk more. Have an internal monologue. Put it in writing assuming he can. Hell, it doesn't even have to be in the show. If the Director or Writers have said anything of how he's meant to be seen, I'd be glad to hear it.
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Old 2008-02-20, 09:12   Link #537
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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Is simply saying so too much to ask? Why he wants to become a Gundam (whatever that is) isn't something I seem able to understand or is clear to me, which is why I keep asking for it to be put into concrete terms that makes sense considering everything he's ever said or done all at the same time. Everything.
WHY he wants to be a Gundam?

Hold on, you don't know why? I thought the start of the very first episode made it crystal clear; Whatever "God" he previously believed in did not save his people, and the only thing that ever came to his aid was that hovering, glowing, giant machine. Gundam was his savior, plain and simple.

What else did you need to know? That was more than enough reason for Setsuna do do what he does from that point on, all the way to the current time.
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Old 2008-02-20, 09:36   Link #538
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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Is simply saying so too much to ask? Why he wants to become a Gundam (whatever that is) isn't something I seem able to understand or is clear to me, which is why I keep asking for it to be put into concrete terms that makes sense considering everything he's ever said or done all at the same time. Everything.



Or he's simply most comfortable with that sort of setting. That's the way I see it.



Talk more. Have an internal monologue. Put it in writing assuming he can. Hell, it doesn't even have to be in the show. If the Director or Writers have said anything of how he's meant to be seen, I'd be glad to hear it.
Sorry, but it almost seems you are being silly for the hell of it. You dismiss whatever explanations given to you for some reason i can't relate to and keep going in circles without actually engaging in any debate. Characters are obviously portrayed wrongly and you obviously know better how they should act (despite claiming not having a grasp on Setsuna's character at the same time) compared to the writer himself. If some detail in the plot or the characters don't satisfy you they get dismissed as not making sense without any actual explanation why they don't make sense ... only reason you seem to present is " because i want to see them portrayed in a different light". So far all you have done is complain about what you didn't understand, then proceeded to complain about explanations because they didn't suit your tastes. How about adding your own thoughts? Forgive me if i see further debate as an exercise in futility.
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Old 2008-02-20, 09:42   Link #539
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I know it was some sort of religious experience for him, but that's not enough. "I want to become a Gundam because a Gundam saved me" is not enough. It's a metaphor for something to him, and what that is and how it governs his way of thinking and his actions is something I want to understand.

I think his interactions with Marina has actually made his characterization harder to understand.

If I personally had to say what his primary motiviation is, I'd say it'd be pride, and his definition of "Gundam" is based on what he wants to do and how he feels at any particular time, because discounting nothing, it's the only thing that makes sense to me. He's immature, he's delusional, and is in no hurry to articulate what he believes.

At this point and time, that's what I think.
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Old 2008-02-20, 10:49   Link #540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
I know it was some sort of religious experience for him, but that's not enough. "I want to become a Gundam because a Gundam saved me" is not enough. It's a metaphor for something to him, and what that is and how it governs his way of thinking and his actions is something I want to understand.

I think his interactions with Marina has actually made his characterization harder to understand.

If I personally had to say what his primary motiviation is, I'd say it'd be pride, and his definition of "Gundam" is based on what he wants to do and how he feels at any particular time, because discounting nothing, it's the only thing that makes sense to me. He's immature, he's delusional, and is in no hurry to articulate what he believes.

At this point and time, that's what I think.
Easiest way to come to understand the characters as we have is to hit replay. It's an anime, not a one time event, after all. I had to rewatch the last few episodes of Neon Genesis Evangelion and Ghost in the Shell several times because there was so much complex information to take in and understand. Sure, since the series isn't complete, the currently available episodes may not have all the answers, but I'm pretty sure you should rewatch the episodes from beginning to current to have some of your misunderstandings answered instead of everyone going in circles, trying to explain to you what has been shown in the series so far.
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