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Old 2009-03-17, 13:02   Link #61
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbowman View Post
So with this "Desultory Justice", is that supposed to be a mix of the moral and absolute variaties of justice or is it something in between moral and absolute?

i.e.:

moral + absolute = desultory [OR] moral < desultory > absolute
Good question Rainbowman. Like you said, I would think that it is in between moral and absolute justice. Kizaru is not as strict, harsh, or ruthless, as Akainu, but then again he isn't as forgiving or lenient as Aokiji. I find that it is the actions and personalities of the admirals that define/describe their sense of justice. In the case of Aokiji, we know that he adheres to "moral justice", but he tends to do his job in a lazy manner, hence the reason why he does his business through "Lazy Justice". For Akainu, he strictly follows "absolute justice", and as we've seen, he will do whatever it takes to apprehend/eliminate his target(s) regardless of any collateral damage, casualties, or even fatalities that may occur along the way. Perhaps when he is formally introduced, his justice will be described as "Relentless Justice", due to the fact that he will never give up when hounding his targets.
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Last edited by Blackbeard D. Kuma; 2009-03-17 at 13:27.
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Old 2009-03-19, 03:10   Link #62
Smokin' D. Ace
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I have a question regarding Marines (and Buster call). Nico Robin mention in chapter 359 page 13 that only the three Admirals and the three Generals have the power to invoke the Buster Call, do we have any information as to who these three Generals are?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapter 359, Page 14 View Post
Nico Robin "It used to be that only the 3 Generals and the top 3 Admirals could use it" (She is speaking of Buster Call)
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Old 2009-03-19, 14:34   Link #63
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokin' D. Ace View Post
I have a question regarding Marines (and Buster call). Nico Robin mention in chapter 359 page 13 that only the three Admirals and the three Generals have the power to invoke the Buster Call, do we have any information as to who these three Generals are?
When Robin said "It used to be that only the 3 generals and the top admirals could use it", she must have meant the 3 admirals and supreme admiral at the time during the Ohara incident. This has to be the case since the next thing she says is "But CP9 has the permission to do it only once...through General Aokiji", and we know that Aokiji is known as an admiral, not a general. What happened here was the translators must have used the term general instead of admiral, perhaps because they can be used interchangeably in Japanese or that they roughly have the same meaning. So, to simply answer your question, the three generals are the three admirals. That is all.
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Old 2009-03-19, 16:53   Link #64
Smokin' D. Ace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
When Robin said "It used to be that only the 3 generals and the top admirals could use it", she must have meant the 3 admirals and supreme admiral at the time during the Ohara incident. This has to be the case since the next thing she says is "But CP9 has the permission to do it only once...through General Aokiji", and we know that Aokiji is known as an admiral, not a general. What happened here was the translators must have used the term general instead of admiral, perhaps because they can be used interchangeably in Japanese or that they roughly have the same meaning. So, to simply answer your question, the three generals are the three admirals. That is all.
You are right, somehow I missed that she called Aokiji General. Thanks for pointing it out. The sentence where she said that the Admirals and the Generals had the power to invoke the Buster Call still confuse me, logic would lead one to the conclusion that the Admirals and Generals are different people. Unless it's a translation issue or Admiral and General are different ranks but Aokiji possess both.
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Old 2009-03-19, 18:23   Link #65
Master Mold
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Spoiler:


Quote:
Key Person: Sengoku Hotoke
Commander of the Marine

Nicknamed "Sengoku the Buddha", he is the highest person in command of the Marine. He firmly believes in the Government's orders since his youth and he has risen to his current position due to his reliability!! Even comrades who doubt the Government can become his target for offense, hence it can be said that he is extremely loyal!! He had participated in the Ohara Buster Call previously and his battles are overall successful.

Picture middle:
Marines: We are the ones who will kill!!! Let us see the evidence of their crimes!!!
Sengoku: Are you doubting the governement? ....Just go and do what you're told!!
Caption: Those who disobey orders are not viewed as a Marine!! What motivates his actions are his obstinate way of thinking.

Picture below:
Sengoku: You'll still come here even if it's going to be a war eh, bastards?
Caption: Even when confronting the bloodthirty pirates, he faces them fearlessly!

Vice-admiral Tsuru
The advisor who mobilises the Ouka Shichibukai at will!!
Known as the brain of the Marine, this advisor supports Sengoku the Buddha. Her experience and knowledge is peerless and has participated in important meetings that can change the world.

Picture bottom:
Tsuru: You must be Lafitte.
Sengoku: !
Caption: She knows every person in the sea. She is irreplaceable from the Marine's highest command's point of view.

<next page>

Admiral Aokiji (Kuzan)
Known to be the one with "the greatest fighting power", the admiral who acts on his own pace!!

One of the three people holding the title of "Admiral" in the vast organisation - Marine. He has the ability of the Nature type Devil Fruit, and his fighting ability is said to be the best in the Marine.

He attracts a lot of attention when he acts alone, he's a carefree person and during times of urgency, he can unleash his power to freeze wrongdoers!!

Top picture:
A powerful ability that can freeze the sea!!
"The sea...has turned into frozen land...!!"
"Hey Julie...we can cross the sea now and visit our fellow villagers whom we haven't seen for 10 years.............!!!"
"Heh heh...!!"
Caption: All forms of life and objects freeze in his path!!

Picture below:
"Oi.....don't you think you've overdone it....."
"Gyaaa~~~ gyaaaaa~~~!!!"
Caption: The Nature type Devil Fruit holder can turn his own body into ice and even if he's knocked to small pieces, he can still come back alive!!"

Picture middle:
Aokiji: Finally...
Nico: .....
Aokiji: you've found a place where you can stay...!?
Nice: Yeah
Caption: He inherits the will of an ally and shows a warmer side of himself where he protects his enemy as well.

Picture below:
Marine: Ad...Admiral sir, can you please come here for a moment?
Aokiji: Take a ride back here is quite troublesome...I'm not gonna act...facing the enemies...that's kind of bothersome...
Caption: What does justice mean to him? Nobody knows what he's thinking inside.


Spoiler:


Quote:
Vice-admiral: Monkey D. Garp
The Legendary Marine who have fought against the Pirate King before!!

The legendary Marine who became famous after having crossed swords with the Pirate King more than 20 years ago, during the warring states era. The person behind the gruesome training that Luffy got, in order to ensure that he becomes a Marine. He also trained Koby and Helmeppo like crazy to make them good baits (?).

Extraordinary endurance and fighting power!!

Right picture
Garp: You dare to tell grandpa to "shut up", that's too much!!!
Luffy: Aaaaa... I'm sorry!!!
Caption: Having received spartan style training, Luffy can now win against Garp.

Picture to the left
"There's still a lot left."
"Haha...sorry but, you're all going down to Davy Jones' Locker!!"
"AH?!"
Caption: Immediately after an order to retreat, they have to attack?! That's too much!

Picture below
"Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah...!!"
"Hahahahahahaha!!"
Caption: It's said that he can throw cannonballs faster than a cannon firing one, and he possesses immense fighting power.

Chief Petty Officer - Helmeppo
Master Chief Petty Officer - Koby
Promising individuals in the Great Age of Pirates that follow the footsteps of the "Strawhats"!!

With Luffy as their goal, they decided to join the Marines. In order to arrest their good friend and enemy - Luffy, both of them are developing speedily.

Picture left
Koby: Before I met Luffy, my world was so small...this ocean lets me understand this. If Luffy did not jump out of that barrel, I could still be in Algarta doing mundane work.
Caption: Luffy is his enemy but at the same time, he is a benefactor who has changed his life.

<next page>

Commodore - Smoker
The "white hunter" who believes in creating a new era

The Commodore who wanted to avenge his reputation after letting Luffy escape before and is now hell-bent on capturing Luffy. He has the power of the Smoke Smoke Fruit that can transform his entire body into smoke and his fighting power can overwhelm all the pirates. He targets at the more famous pirates so that he can rise in ranks.

His only target is Luffy!!

Picture left
"A navy officer is a navy officer; since he belongs to the Marines...for me to cross the rank of Captain is not that easy. Now the most important thing to us is status! Ever since the Roger incident, the pirates in the world..."
"...."
Caption: He used to be humble, now all he wants is to climb higher up in ranks.

Picture right
Smoker: Don't run!
Luffy: Urgh!!! "Whiteblow"!!
Caption: What's the consequence of his zealous persuits of Luffy...?

Picture below
Smoker: I'll exchange my reputation to wipe him off the face of the "New World"!!!
Caption: His strong desire to fight against his enemies! For gaining greater powers, for achieving higher status!

Ensign - Tashigi
A swordswoman who wants to extend the realm of justice and gain power!!

A swordswoman who tasted defeat in her fight with Zoro. After her failure in the Conquer B.W mission in Alabaster, she became determined to achieve greater powers.

Picture left
"What's the use of crying! I don't want to lose...in that case, I must become stronger!"
Caption: A headstrong person who absolutely refuses to admit defeat. She will not be discouraged and will reorganize herself and get ready for the next fight!


Yeah, Kumanri kicks Japans text's ass!
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Old 2009-03-19, 20:21   Link #66
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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@JINBEI - Thank you very much for putting this up for us. It is much appreciated.

I must say, the person who I found the most interesting to read about is Vice Admiral Tsuru. I had no idea that she is the one who gives mandates to the Shichibukai. That is some crazy authority she has right there. I thought if anyone was to command the Shichibukai at will, it would be the 5 elder stars, but I guess not. It's also very interesting to note that she knows about every single person in the seas. Simply amazing. Her vast wealth of knowledge and experience certainly deems her worthy of being the brain and undisputed smartest person in the marines. She is quite the prestigious marine, to say the least. I'm looking even more forward to seeing what story developments she'll be involved in now.
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Old 2009-03-24, 15:12   Link #67
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Everyone is saying that Whitebeard is going to die int he upcoming war but what are the expected losses for the Marines?
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Old 2009-03-24, 15:32   Link #68
Kafriel
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Tons of henchmen and at least an admiral, it would suck if only the pirates suffered greatly in the war.
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Old 2009-03-24, 18:09   Link #69
Wolcik
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I have a question so don't blame me for being stupid if I'm wrong
Spoiler:
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Old 2009-03-24, 18:29   Link #70
Master Mold
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Naw, thats not red dog, he was 1st shown in the east blue when Luffy beat Arlong IIRC.

John Giant is his name, and he vice admiral level.
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Old 2009-03-24, 19:39   Link #71
marvelB
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^John Giant also briefly appears during the Enies Lobby storyline, when the Buster Call is summoned. I always thought he was one of the coolest-looking marines. Shame that he doesn't appear that often....
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Old 2009-04-04, 22:08   Link #72
junte86
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About Sengoku and Garps power in one piece yello it is mentioned these two were the only marines who fought with pirate king in even terms
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Old 2009-04-05, 15:00   Link #73
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junte86 View Post
About Sengoku and Garps power in one piece yello it is mentioned these two were the only marines who fought with pirate king in even terms
I'm afraid this is incorrect.

Sengoku is known as the supreme admiral, and he is the one who has the authority over every other person in the marines. The only people he answers to are the Gorosei (Five Elder Stars) from the World Government.

Garp is renowned as the legendary hero of the marines who came close to capturing Gol D. Roger many times.

Beyond these two facts, we haven't been given any more pieces of information to suggest that they fought equally with the pirate king. In all honesty, if they did manage to fight the pirate king on equal terms, we as readers would've been told so by now. As it stands, the only person to have ever tied in a fight with Gol D. Roger is Whitebeard.
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Old 2009-04-05, 16:41   Link #74
junte86
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I got this info from one piece yellow and that book tells a lot of things that is not told in the one piece.. I got this from Korean site and Japan sites. Also even terms doesnt mean pirate king did not won at the end.. but I am positive my info on this is correct.
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Old 2009-04-05, 17:59   Link #75
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by junte86 View Post
I got this info from one piece yellow and that book tells a lot of things that is not told in the one piece.. I got this from Korean site and Japan sites. Also even terms doesnt mean pirate king did not won at the end.. but I am positive my info on this is correct.
The facts that I just told you about Sengoku and Garp are from the One Piece Yellow Data Book. Again, there is nothing stated about them fighting equally with Gol D. Roger in the past. The only person that was explicitly stated (from Buggy) to have fought on equal terms with the pirate king is Whitebeard. This is why he has the undisputed title of "strongest man in the world". No one else has this title, and therefore he is the strongest until proven otherwise.
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Old 2009-04-05, 18:36   Link #76
junte86
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hm thats strange since my data tells me that Garp and Sengoku fought with Roger in even terms one picece yellow book I read was offically translated by korean publishers so I found the translator misinterperating the pharse little slime but the translator might have mintranslated it... but one thing defiently stated is Sengoku also cornerd Pirate king just like Garp this I am positive.

And fighting in even terms does not mean they tied the battle WB might be the only one who tied with GD but there could be few people who fought with GD in even terms but at the end lost (Lucci and Luffy fight can be described as even although at the end Luffy won.)
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Old 2009-04-05, 22:46   Link #77
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by junte86 View Post
but one thing defiently stated is Sengoku also cornerd Pirate king just like Garp this I am positive.
This is also incorrect. There is nothing stated about Sengoku having cornered Gold Roger on numerous occasions in the past. Only Garp is said to have done that.
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Old 2009-04-06, 02:58   Link #78
junte86
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Are you sure about that?
because I definetly remeber that was wrote on my book.
and I just checked japanese one piece wiki site and it stated Sengoku and Garp BOTH cornered The pirate king.

And not just me but several Korean People also stated they have read that one piece yellow stated Sengoku and Garp cornering Pirate king and I find that it would be impossible for everyone to have read wrong sources...

you might have got a wrong translation or something although I cannot confirm Sengoku and Garp fighting with Pirate king in Even terms as I do not have the book right now and even if I scan it I dont think many people can read it.
but I am definetly sure Sengoku also cornered Pirate king.. (Sengoku was admireal... at the time roger was a pirate so it is just netural to think he also accomplished it.

Anyway I wont be talking about this issue I just stated about Sengoku and Garp because it seems many english sites I go to seems to not have the informaiton I see in many japanese site and korean sites. Just wanted to give something about the marines...especially since sengoku seems to be underestimated lot of time.

P.S Anyway I just asked people who have one piece yellow and yes they said it was wrote on the book.. so I do not know it was mistranslated or you got the mistranslated version.

oh and just to make sure I have posted a question on this in an active korean community where people reads one piece in japanese and or translated version I will post the link after I get some answers I know many of you cannot read korean.. but I can explain the answers so... it wont matter
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Old 2009-04-06, 03:29   Link #79
james0246
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Here is all the info provided in the scanned images found on US/English speaking websites, please tell us what is missing:

Quote:
Key Person: Sengoku Gensui
Commander of the Marine


Nicknamed "Sengoku the Buddha", he is the highest person in command of the Marine. He firmly believes in the Government's orders since his youth and he has risen to his current position due to his reliability!! Even comrades who doubt the Government can become his target for offense, hence it can be said that he is extremely loyal!! He had participated in the Ohara Buster Call previously and his battles are overall successful.

Picture middle:
Marines: We are the ones who will kill!!! Let us see the evidence of their crimes!!!
Sengoku: Are you doubting the governement? ....Just go and do what you're told!!
Caption: Those who disobey orders are not viewed as a Marine!! What motivates his actions are his obstinate way of thinking.

Picture below:
Sengoku: You'll still come here even if it's going to be a war eh, bastards?
Caption: Even when confronting the bloodthirty pirates, he faces them fearlessly!
Sengoku's info doesn't even cover an entire page, and with my simplistic translation skills I see most of the aforementioned translated info present in the Japanese raw. So, what is different between your copy of the Yellow Book, and our copy?
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Old 2009-04-06, 04:18   Link #80
junte86
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Ok I got answer the link is
http://ruliweb.nate.com/ruliboard/re...ft=y&num=49678

simply the answer is given by the second reply
apperantly the info is not on Sengoku the info is on Garp and it says Garp and Sengoku together fought with the pirate king ( 20年以上前にセンゴクと共に海賊王ゴ-ル.D.ロジャ-と渡り合い) this part but it seems korean translation version somehow have it they fought in even terms or something but the Direct japanese version have it Garp and Sengoku toghether fought with the pirate king although I cannot confirm this means it was 2 vs 1 but as Rogers was always with his crew and such it can at least tell Sengoku is a competent fighter who have fought with Gol.D Rogers crew with Garp and well some other Mariines.
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