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Old 2009-04-27, 21:21   Link #81
marvelB
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Thought I'd bump this thread to talk about a marine who always caught my interest: Bogart, Garp's subordinate. I'm actually pretty surprised that there's so little info available on this guy..... seeing as he's presumably Garp's right-hand man, you'd think that we'd be given some sort of exposition on him. What's his rank? Was he serving under Garp back when Gold Roger was still alive and kicking? Does he have a DF power? Maybe he's actually a Vegapunk bodyguard like Sentoumaru? I hope Oda can reveal something about him during the upcoming war......
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Old 2009-04-27, 22:41   Link #82
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Well, Bogart ostensibly taught Koby Rokushiki (I only postulate this considering that he was the one always shown training Koby and Helmeppo). Additionally, I seem to remember a scene where he cuts through a gun, which could imply the he can hear the "breath" of the world around him.

As for his rank, well since he wears his coat over his shoulders, he is probably at least a Captain or above...

Last edited by james0246; 2009-04-27 at 22:53.
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Old 2009-04-27, 23:44   Link #83
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Yeah, I know about Bogart training CobyMeppo and him being a swordsman and all, but that's about all we know about him. I just find it funny that we know more about Kizaru's subordinate Sentoumaru, a character who appeared much later in the series. I also kinda feel the same way about those other obscure marines with awesome designs (like John Giant or Comil)......



And back on his rank, I kinda like the idea of Bogart being a rear admiral, since the only other one we've seen so far was Drake (and he doesn't actually count because he's an ex-marine)......
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Old 2009-04-28, 00:10   Link #84
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^I agree with you that Bogart will be of a lesser rank that Vice-Admiral (how else could he travel with Garp), but even Rear Admiral seems a little high (considering that a Rear Admiral is supposed to just be an inexperienced vice-admiral (they are assigned the rear position due to the fact that it is generally the easiest to defend position)). I am expecting that he will be, at most, a Commandore, and at least a Captain (considering that the coat drapped over the shoulders has been seen on many captains).

Additionally, we know more of Sentomaru (and several others) because they have actual speaking roles, unlike Boggart who only really existed in the mini-stories.
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Old 2009-04-28, 23:27   Link #85
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Going back on the subject of those obscure VAs, I really can't wait to see Comil and John Giant in action during the war. It would seem that the both of them are swordsmen, judging from their brief appearance at Marineford. I'm actually still sorta wondering if Comil will actually help out Luffy when he arrives at the HQ..... after all, Ace helped him out in that ministory. He may want to return the favor.....
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Old 2009-04-29, 00:44   Link #86
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^I remember wondering the same thing way back when we first learned that Ace was imprisoned. I do think it would be cool if they did briefly meet, even if it Komir is guarding Ace. Just some form of acknowledgement from Oda of that brief but fun mini-story would be really nice.

The person I am most interested in is Attachan. This Capatain with no known abilities is arguably the greatest spy in the entire Marine Corp/WG. He can sneek in seemingly anywhere and take pictures of the most notorious and dangerous pirates, all without getting caught or being remembered. I would love for there to be a mini-story centered around Attachan's many adventures across the Grand Line capturing not Pirates, but pictures of said Pirates .
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Old 2009-05-02, 19:36   Link #87
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I mentioned this in the 541 thread, but I figured I'd paste the info here, as well:



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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
Kind of off-topic, but the 11th Log came out recently (the Logs are basically huge collections of past chapters in magazine format, for those that don't know), and according to Greg from AP, there was a power ranking chart for recently introduced characters. The characters' strength is ranked from 1-10, and surprisingly..... Vegapunk is listed on there. Even more surprisingly, his power rank is 9. Looks like he may not be some weak little poindexter after all.......


Well, this info inevitably brings up the question: If Vegapunk really is that powerful, why exactly does he need powerful bodyguards like Sentoumaru? Perhaps so nobody could disturb his work? Heh, I wonder if this means that he converted himself into a cyborg, similarly to Franky.....



Edit: And here's the pic for confirmation:



Spoiler:




Well, debate away, people!


Edit 2: Okay, so it turns out that it's not exactly a power level we're talking about here, but a threat level (thanks for clearing that up, aohige). Either way, I doubt this will stop people from debating whether or not Vegapunk himself is strong after all.....

Last edited by marvelB; 2009-05-02 at 22:26.
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Old 2009-05-07, 13:29   Link #88
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I dont think we have an admiral titled thread so far (But Im sure we will have one after some anime watchers witness Kizaru).I was jsut thinking the other day, we have seen Akainu's face, Kizaru and Aokiji.Aokiji and Kizaru sharing the real life actor treat while there is no reflection of Akainu in real word.Other than that you know both admirals are somehow quite funny looking but whenever I look at Akainu destroying Ohara ship scene he is just all serious and fierce looking.I think he might be something greater than them.Else why shouldnt he bear resemblence to a real life japanese actor just like others? A japanese movie freak should already guessed and mass produced over web if there was one.

There is also that thing worrying me : We didnt see his eyes due to shade of his hat.Can there be a "whats kakashi hiding under his mask?" scene waiting for us? Some ridiculously funny big eyes or something else?

And I wanted to believe that "Red Dog" is paramecia at least.I dreamed of a Blood Blood devil fruit like every other OP fan of course.He can cut his hand off and shape/form his own blood into various blade,axe like weapons (actually I wanted his shaping blood to be something like carnage from spiderman visually) and maybe forming his blood back to his body, weirdly turning into a logia? Blood clot as a weak point?

any other wild theories on our last admiral?
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Old 2009-05-07, 13:51   Link #89
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^Oda probably simply hadn't decided on the design for Akainu yet (or he felt like withholding it to add to the supsense of his eventual unveiling), so all we got to see was his jawline/mouth, and later when we are formally introduced to the character his design will be based on whatever actor Oda has/had settled on.
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Old 2009-05-08, 18:45   Link #90
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I just want to make a little power comparison here with the marines and the shichibukai. We know that they are two conflicting groups of equal power (marines = shichibukai). When comparing the sizes of these two factions, it is clearly obvious that the marines are the much larger force. Now, in order for these two factions to have an equal balance of power, the majority of the marines force would logically have to be much weaker than the shichibukai. With that being said, based on the information presented in the story so far and what we've seen, I am inclined to believe that only Sengoku, Garp, and the 3 admirals, are the ones that can evenly match or possibly defeat the shichibukai (keep them in check, if you will). Should the power of the aforementioned 5 individuals not be enough to stalemate the shichibukai, the rest of the military personnel in the marines are still there to close the little remaining gap in power. What does everyone think of my interpretation on this matter?
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Old 2009-05-08, 22:42   Link #91
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
I just want to make a little power comparison here with the marines and the shichibukai. We know that they are two conflicting groups of equal power (marines = shichibukai). When comparing the sizes of these two factions, it is clearly obvious that the marines are the much larger force. Now, in order for these two factions to have an equal balance of power, the majority of the marines force would logically have to be much weaker than the shichibukai. With that being said, based on the information presented in the story so far and what we've seen, I am inclined to believe that only Sengoku, Garp, and the 3 admirals, are the ones that can evenly match or possibly defeat the shichibukai (keep them in check, if you will). Should the power of the aforementioned 5 individuals not be enough to stalemate the shichibukai, the rest of the military personnel in the marines are still there to close the little remaining gap in power. What does everyone think of my interpretation on this matter?
Well, you also have to bring into account those under the command of the Warlords. Crocodile had Baroque Works, Jimbei has an entire island (if not the entire culture) of fishmen, Moria had his zombie legions, and we've seen enough of Blackbeard's crew to know the lot of them are at least Captain rank in a Marines-Shichibukai comparison.
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"It's not just in some of us, it's in everyone.

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Old 2009-05-08, 23:01   Link #92
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Well, you also have to bring into account those under the command of the Warlords. Crocodile had Baroque Works, Jimbei has an entire island (if not the entire culture) of fishmen, Moria had his zombie legions, and we've seen enough of Blackbeard's crew to know the lot of them are at least Captain rank in a Marines-Shichibukai comparison.
Only the seven warlords comprise one of the three world powers. Their subordinates are not included in the "marines = shichibukai" equation. This is why I've always contemplated if it really takes the entire marines force to stalemate the power of the seven warlords. Doesn't that seem a little excessive? Oda needs to elaborate a little bit on how this world power system works.

When examining the constitution of each world power, the shichibukai seem to be the odd one out of the three.

In the marines, you have the supreme admiral, 3 admirals, 9 vice admirals (just going by the ones we've seen so far), rear admirals, commodores, and numerous captains. The remaining personnel who have ranks below the aforementioned ones listed seem to be insignificant and cannon fodder (grunts basically). In addition, they also have a partnership with other powerful/dangerous subordinates (i.e. Sentoumaru, Dr. Vegapunk, Pacifistas, etc.).

With that being said, I can definitely see the marines being able to match the power of the 4 emperors and their crews. Both of these factions have a lot of powerhouses and resources on their sides. The shichibukai, on the other hand, are just seven powerful warlords. That's it. From a numbers standpoint, they are completely outmatched, and so I don't see how their power can equate to that of the marines or 4 emperors with their crews.
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Last edited by Blackbeard D. Kuma; 2009-05-10 at 14:06.
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Old 2009-05-13, 15:27   Link #93
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Well, you also have to bring into account those under the command of the Warlords. Crocodile had Baroque Works, Jimbei has an entire island (if not the entire culture) of fishmen, Moria had his zombie legions, and we've seen enough of Blackbeard's crew to know the lot of them are at least Captain rank in a Marines-Shichibukai comparison.
Looking back now, I can see that this post of mine was a bit lacking in development. Allow me to try something with a little more ground...
I think one thing the Shichibukai have in great amount is a broad range of influence. Let's look at some of the more obvious figures so far:

Crocodile: not only did he have his own criminal network but the entire populace of Alabasta loved him! Not to mention that Baoque Works had some pretty high profile figures in Robin and Das (though Robin was only there on her own interests, but the fact that she took refuge under him is show enough of his influence)

Boa: what can I say, she rules over an island of warrior women who practically deify her.

Jimbei: I'd imagine he'd have quite the backing with the Fishman race in general. I mean it's obvious he has no love for the Marines or World Government so one has to speculate that his Shichibukai status has a similar goal to Hancock's: protecting his people. Something like that will reward you popularity.

Doflamingo: I suppose he does have his hand in the cookie-jar of the slave trade and that gives him some face. I recall him talking about "liberations" back when he first showed up too so maybe he has some stake in Dragon and his Revolutionaries. Too much mystery to really point him out right now, but that in itself gives him a kind of infamy: no justified "limit" to his "reach".

BlackBeard: We've seen his crewmates, the fact that he managed to recruit people like that... impressive, nuff said.

Moria: He did snag Hogback who himself does appear loyal to his "Captain," he did go through the trouble of sliping him off Thriller Bark rather than just escaping.

Mihawk: World's Greatest Swordsman, people from every side of the track probably look up to/play rival to this guy!

Kuma: It's obvious that he has some kind of relationship with Vegapunk (master/creation can go deep under the right circumstances) and Sentoumaru who even refers to him as "Lord Kuma" I believe. These are two guys clearly employed by the Marines, the fact tha they seem tied to a Shichibukai...

That's not to say the Marines have no influence, but the fact that the Shichibukai have a broader range: people from every side of the morality spectrum lend to their popularity. That's probably their best strength, like a mid-way between the Marines and the Yonkou...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
With that being said, I can definitely see the marines being able to match the power of the 4 emperors and their crews. Both of these factions have a lot of powerhouses and resources on their sides. The shichibukai, on the other hand, are just seven powerful warlords. That's it. From a numbers standpoint, they are completely outmatched, and so I don't see how their power can equate to that of the marines or 4 emperors with their crews.
I think my above responce is adequet in comparing the Marines to the Shichibukai.

As for the Yonkou... I think their main flaw is a lack of organization present in both the other powers.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but receantly I believe it was revealed...
Spoiler for Yonkou Activity?:

And look at the meeting between Shanks and Whtebeard, clearly there was a good degree of hostility between them. These are people who act towards their own ambitions; if they feel like being cooperative they act accordingly but above all else they keep to themselves and their territories and are clearly defensive of those boundaries.

The Marines are obviously a well-founded organization.

The Shichibukai in turn are kept in check by the Marines; they tolerate each other because they have no other choice in the matter. At the same time though they're wild cards, their alliance kind of sways the balance of power.

You said it yourself, you could see the Marines and Yonkou as equal in power. If you have two players with ten points each who always vote in opposite directions, it's that thrid player with just one point who suddenly has all the power. The fact that the Shichibukai are ambiguous, that they have the potential to go either side, is what lends them their strength.

How was that compared to my first argument?
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"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.

"It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us.

"Your playing small does not serve the world, there is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.

"We were all meant to shine as children do.

"It's not just in some of us, it's in everyone.

"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give others permission to do the same.

"As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others."
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Old 2009-05-13, 16:02   Link #94
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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I think one thing the Shichibukai have in great amount is a broad range of influence.
In the first half of the grand line, the Shichibukai indeed have a great amount of influence (as you have greatly elaborated on). In the new world (second half of the grand line), however, the influence and control seems to be predominantly in the hands of the 4 emperors.

This all goes back to me contemplating a while back whether or not the balance of power has to do with actual fighting power or political control/influence. As we have discussed though, it actually does make more sense that the balance of power is synonymous with the latter. If you think about it, how can all three world powers coincidentally be exactly equal in fighting power? It's just not realistic and doesn't make much sense.
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Old 2009-05-13, 16:59   Link #95
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
This all goes back to me contemplating a while back whether or not the balance of power has to do with actual fighting power or political control/influence. As we have discussed though, it actually does make more sense that the balance of power is synonymous with the latter. If you think about it, how can all three world powers coincidentally be exactly equal in fighting power? It's just not realistic and doesn't make much sense.
As an actual fighting power, the Shichibukai really can't measure up to the Marines or the Yonkou. Now that I really think about it, that whole "10 vs. 10: player with 1pt shifts the power" thing I spouted in my previous post is probably the best way to describe this overall system.

It's clear that the Marines are confident in their endeavors against Whitebeard. That's because they have the Shichibukai backing them; that one extra point tips the odds in their favor and "ensures" their victory... at least in their minds. That dynamic the three have is actively shaping the story.

And that leads me back to another idea I had float around a long time ago: the fall out of the Shichibukai. Moria and Blackbeard have both openly stated that they are vying for the position of Pirate King, Kuma has some odd allegiance or "sense of duty" that goes beyond his obligation to the World Government, and Doflamingo has his hands in just about everyone's cookie-jar. The rest have specific reasons for becoming Shichibukai and I'd imagine once those dilemma's find some permanent solution they'll no longer have any need of that title. They're just not solid as a long-term group.

So, if the Shichibukai is dissolved... then we have the Marines and Yonkou caught on equal fooing.
And then Whitebeard's outcome in the future war makes a great deal of difference...
If Whitebeard doesn't die and the Shichibukai abandon their duties, how will the Marines react when the power is balanced and the Yonkou are now in every way their equals?
And if Whitebeard does die... the Yonkou are one-fourth weaker... and their might be no need for the Shichibukai at all anymore...

Right alongside the war with Whitebeard, the allegiance of the Warlords is something to watch out for.
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"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.

"It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us.

"Your playing small does not serve the world, there is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.

"We were all meant to shine as children do.

"It's not just in some of us, it's in everyone.

"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give others permission to do the same.

"As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others."
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Old 2009-05-13, 17:22   Link #96
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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As an actual fighting power, the Shichibukai really can't measure up to the Marines or the Yonkou. Now that I really think about it, that whole "10 vs. 10: player with 1pt shifts the power" thing I spouted in my previous post is probably the best way to describe this overall system.
I couldn't agree more with you on this. Without a doubt, each warlord is godly in fighting power, but these 7 individuals alone do not have the strength to stalemate that of the whole marines force or 4 emperors united. This certainly seems to be evident based on what we've seen and been told.

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Originally Posted by BlackNhite View Post
And that leads me back to another idea I had float around a long time ago: the fall out of the Shichibukai. Moria and Blackbeard have both openly stated that they are vying for the position of Pirate King, Kuma has some odd allegiance or "sense of duty" that goes beyond his obligation to the World Government, and Doflamingo has his hands in just about everyone's cookie-jar. The rest have specific reasons for becoming Shichibukai and I'd imagine once those dilemma's find some permanent solution they'll no longer have any need of that title. They're just not solid as a long-term group.
You've hit the bulls eye with this. The Shichibukai are the group most susceptible to falling apart for the reasons you've stated and after the events of this war transpire. Hypothetically speaking here, let's say that most, if not all, of the warlords revert back to being rogue pirates again as a result of them betraying the World Government. Such a betrayal would automatically make them enemies of the WG again, and then the Marines would consequently have to deal with them and the emperors. Having said this, the Marines would be in quite the predicament if this were to happen, and one might even say that the odds are against them in such a scenario.

Despite this, however, I feel that the WG are using the warlords as expendable pawns in this upcoming war. After all, they are on the front line for combat, with the marines as their back up. It's only logical that if there were to be any casualties or even fatalities, the WG would rather have their untrustworthy warlords take the hits for them as opposed to their loyal marines force. In the event that the warlords try to abandon the marines on the battlefield, I'm quite certain that the WG has something planned that will mitigate that power reduction so that the playing field is in their favor again (keeping their advantage, if you will). Perhaps they've had Dr. Vegapunk prepare something in case of such a contingency, or maybe they have one of the ancient weapons at their disposal. In any case, I really can't see the marines losing this war.
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Last edited by Blackbeard D. Kuma; 2009-05-13 at 19:17.
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Old 2009-05-26, 16:12   Link #97
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Question

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Edit 2: Okay, so it turns out that it's not exactly a power level we're talking about here, but a threat level (thanks for clearing that up, aohige). Either way, I doubt this will stop people from debating whether or not Vegapunk himself is strong after all.....
Got any more in tell on the threat level of the other Seven Armed Seas such as Moria, Doflamingo, MihawK, of Whitebeards and his men etc etc?
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Old 2009-05-26, 21:10   Link #98
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Got any more in tell on the threat level of the other Seven Armed Seas such as Moria, Doflamingo, MihawK, of Whitebeards and his men etc etc?

Eh... not so far (maybe in the next Log, though). The only characters whose threat levels were shown in this particular Log were Smoker (6), Hina (5), Coby (3), Nezumi (that marine from the Arlong arc, whose threat level is only 1 ), Axe-hand Morgan (2), Kuma (9), his clones (7), Vegapunk (9), and the 3 admirals (all of them 10). Tashigi was listed, but I don't see a gauge for her....



Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing another of these threat level lists myself. I'm rather curious to see the gauges for Garp and Silvers Rayleigh, in particular.
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Old 2009-05-26, 23:06   Link #99
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Eh... not so far (maybe in the next Log, though). The only characters whose threat levels were shown in this particular Log were Smoker (6), Hina (5), Coby (3), Nezumi (that marine from the Arlong arc, whose threat level is only 1 ), Axe-hand Morgan (2), Kuma (9), his clones (7), Vegapunk (9), and the 3 admirals (all of them 10). Tashigi was listed, but I don't see a gauge for her....



Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing another of these threat level lists myself. I'm rather curious to see the gauges for Garp and Silvers Rayleigh, in particular.
Maybe we should have a "One Piece threat level" thread so we can talk about whatever characters we desire and estimate their threat level. I know of certain characters that may have high threat levels.
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Old 2009-05-31, 08:14   Link #100
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Anyone else think Magellan = Admirals in strength?
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