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Old 2010-06-01, 11:19   Link #141
Distinction
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Ofc its reasonable as Luffy is the main protagonist and so cant die or atlest get stopped so far in Enemy territory, but Sengoku should know hes a Rubberman and therefore used something more usefull.
Although i dont really mind it that things got this way tbh.

As this is the Marine thread: i dont like the fact that all 3 Admirals are Logias!!! That was the most disappointing development in One Piece for me. As Logias cut the way to the top atleast by 50 %.
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Old 2010-06-01, 12:07   Link #142
Kallen4life
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I like the 3 logias .. red, blue, yellow ec.

and all 3 mass destruction
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Old 2010-06-01, 12:48   Link #143
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
You regard your own expectations as realistic, and that is, again, a fair assumption, before this war. However, during this war we have seen Luffy survive again and again against legends like Sengoku and the Admirals. So I don't think your expectations are realistic anymore, given his performance on the field. Even after his impressive showing you still underestimate him, and I think this is unfair.
His persistence and determination were admirable, but getting effortlessly tossed aside by the elites isn't anything to boast about. Luffy didn't have any hope of beating these formidable adversaries, and he knew that, which is why he chose to avoid any confrontations with them if it was possible.

Believe me, I will acknowledge Luffy as one of the big boys when the time comes, but that time is still far away.
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Old 2010-06-05, 12:11   Link #144
AddiKtioNn-BlaCk
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Originally Posted by Distinction View Post
As this is the Marine thread: i dont like the fact that all 3 Admirals are Logias!!! That was the most disappointing development in One Piece for me. As Logias cut the way to the top atleast by 50 %.
Are you assuming that the 3 marine Admirals became Admirals simply because their Logia's? Strong Logia's at that? I doubt it. If that's the case, Smoker would be higher ranked than a Commodore. Logia or not, Strength isn't enough to get you moved up in Ranks. I think it has to do with your experience and accomplishments. Kizaru and Aokiji were subordinates to Sengoku and Garp. Meaning they have experience in fighting Legends.

I don't think being a Logia would make a much a difference in that case. Akainu held his own against Whitebeard, Kizaru held his own against Rayleigh... since Aokiji was once Garp's subordinate, I'm assuming he must have clashed with Shanks in their Younger years. And all 3 had a quickie with Whitebeard during this War. Plus we've seen Vice-Admirals perform Rokushiki, and we don't know if Rokushiki is a mandatory technique or not. I'm assuming it is in some way since Coby and (possibly) Helmeppo learned it. So its also possible that the Admirals may know some Rokushiki as well.

With that said, I don't think the Admirals became Admirals simply because they have Logia fruits.
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Old 2010-06-05, 13:32   Link #145
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It's been stated that Smoker would have a much higher rank if he weren't so insubordinate, so their being Admirals is not just strength but a willingness to tow the line.
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Old 2010-06-05, 13:54   Link #146
Distinction
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Originally Posted by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk View Post
Are you assuming that the 3 marine Admirals became Admirals simply because their Logia's? Strong Logia's at that? I doubt it. If that's the case, Smoker would be higher ranked than a Commodore. Logia or not, Strength isn't enough to get you moved up in Ranks. I think it has to do with your experience and accomplishments. Kizaru and Aokiji were subordinates to Sengoku and Garp. Meaning they have experience in fighting Legends.

I don't think being a Logia would make a much a difference in that case. Akainu held his own against Whitebeard, Kizaru held his own against Rayleigh... since Aokiji was once Garp's subordinate, I'm assuming he must have clashed with Shanks in their Younger years. And all 3 had a quickie with Whitebeard during this War. Plus we've seen Vice-Admirals perform Rokushiki, and we don't know if Rokushiki is a mandatory technique or not. I'm assuming it is in some way since Coby and (possibly) Helmeppo learned it. So its also possible that the Admirals may know some Rokushiki as well.

With that said, I don't think the Admirals became Admirals simply because they have Logia fruits.
Well thats why i said 50 % not 100 %. I mean controrary to other Fruits we cant be sure how far they would come without Logia. And not any Logia but maybe except Ice no real counters (like water for sand) to there powers.

Why couldnt 3 Admirals be = 1 Logia, 1 Paramecia and 1 even Zoan.

There would be the perfect change to show that depend on how u use it all fruits are equal. Its not only the efford to get the position but also that the strongest Marine Force "is" Logiapower.

I think One Piece is quite good balanced overall (except use of normal Zoan )
even small details.
But giving 1 of OP major "Villiains" such non creativ powers was kinda lame.

To ur second part.

If that what u say is true, than this would make the whole thing even worse. Because they only use there Logia abilitys. This would only make Logias more lame.
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Old 2010-06-05, 16:04   Link #147
AddiKtioNn-BlaCk
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Originally Posted by Distinction View Post
Well thats why i said 50 % not 100 %. I mean controrary to other Fruits we cant be sure how far they would come without Logia. And not any Logia but maybe except Ice no real counters (like water for sand) to there powers.

Why couldnt 3 Admirals be = 1 Logia, 1 Paramecia and 1 even Zoan.

There would be the perfect change to show that depend on how u use it all fruits are equal. Its not only the efford to get the position but also that the strongest Marine Force "is" Logiapower.

I think One Piece is quite good balanced overall (except use of normal Zoan )
even small details.
But giving 1 of OP major "Villiains" such non creativ powers was kinda lame.

To ur second part.

If that what u say is true, than this would make the whole thing even worse. Because they only use there Logia abilitys. This would only make Logias more lame.
But Oda is showing that. Just because the Admirals are all Logia's doesn't mean Oda is not letting it be known that all DF's are equal. The Admirals = Logia's, Shanks = no DF (as far as we know), Whitebeard = Paramecia... so its very possible that one of the other Yonkou has a Zoan.

The Greatest Marine Force are the Admirals is very fitting of their DF abilities. I mean just think about how much destruction they can cause. However, Sengoku and Garp are also very strong, and they aren't Logia's. I'm pretty sure some of the Vice-Admirals are quite strong as well. And I still think the Gorousei are ex-Marines or have some battle experience, but that's just my speculation.

As for why they wont use Rokushiki. As the old saying goes "if it aint broke, don't fix it", if they can easily wipe out opponents with their abilities why use something else?
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Weed, there is nothing wrong with it.. Seriously what's so bad about it? Smoking weed and eating out your fridge and laughing at the simple things? Or getting in fights and causing injury and accidents. Beer is the destruction of this nation, Herb is the healer! Don't listen, make your own choices!
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Old 2010-06-05, 16:37   Link #148
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On average Logias are the rarest and the strongest Devil Fruit.
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Old 2010-06-05, 18:15   Link #149
Distinction
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"But Oda is showing that. Just because the Admirals are all Logia's doesn't mean Oda is not letting it be known that all DF's are equal. The Admirals = Logia's, Shanks = no DF (as far as we know), Whitebeard = Paramecia"

Ye but in WBs case, although he has the mby most powerfull Df destruction wise and was made a big deal out of it, it doesnt matter like with the admirals.
What stands out and made him so outstanding was his physical Power.
You see he isnt the world strongest because of the Df.

My Point is no Admiral did something i couldnt do with this Df ... Well not so extreme but atleast every above average Marine. And the Probleme is i doubt there is a way to show otherwise.
This isnt a big deal overall as i still like the Admirals but when they will eventually fall later it will have the "plot lose" feeling. As they are strong Logias and could even withstand WB Haki attack.
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Old 2010-06-06, 03:24   Link #150
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Speaking of Admirals, a friend recently told me that there may be an experience based difference amongst admirals.

In episode Zero Kuzan was wearing a random outfit rather than admiral coat and he was clearly shocked to see Garp's rejection of admiral status.

Sakazuki was there with his admiral coat walking amongst Garp and Tsuru (we can clearly see that there is a difference between admirals outfit and vice-admirals outfit by the panel, pretty much clear that Akainu was an admiral back there)

And in an anime-only scene, Borsalino was waiting over some marines wearing his admiral coat.It is pretty much clear that he was an admiral.Why he was waiting like a random marine is beyond me.

So I guess Akainu and Kizaru were always there as admirals, and then Aokiji came.Any ideas? I think Aokiji was more like a vice admiral at that time to me...Since that somehow luffy-like character style means nothing when we compare it to todays emotionless iceman.

Just keep it in mind that this is an idea rather than a over 9000 pohwar level rant, promotion times does not make Aokiji less stronger than Akainu or Kizaru.
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Old 2010-06-06, 10:29   Link #151
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Even if Akainu was promoted straight out of the Ohara incident, he cannot be that much more experienced compared to Aokiji.
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Old 2010-06-06, 11:47   Link #152
Kallen4life
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Aokiji and Akainu were VAs during Ohara at least

i think Akainu & Kizaru were VAs in chapter0, Aokiji maybe too, but he seemed like Garps subordinate (and not wearng VAs coat) and Garp = VA


Akainu is stronger then Aokiji same as with Ace .. magma >>> ice .. Aokiji and Ace were in fact equal in power
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Old 2010-07-05, 03:25   Link #153
Distinction
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Is Magma always > Ice? I mean can Magma also burn -273 Celsius ?
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Old 2010-07-05, 03:32   Link #154
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Is Magma always > Ice? I mean can Magma also burn -273 Celsius ?
If you're talking about science, -273 degrees celcius, absolute zero doesn't exist because there is no way to completely remove and isolate something from heat.

That means even a -272 degree Celsius infrared ray is still hotter than something that's at absolute zero and will warm it up.

Magma at several thousand degrees will just mean that ice at absolute zero will just warm up, melt and evaporate.
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Old 2010-07-05, 04:29   Link #155
Distinction
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Hmmm but can Ice freeze Magma? I mean will it melt and evaporate no matter what was first? Or is it like the first one "lose"?
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Old 2010-07-05, 04:45   Link #156
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Ice doesn't freeze anything, its Aokiji doing the freezing. All we've seen is Aokiji freezing people and the sea, things that are of average body temperature.

To freeze something you need to remove heat from it. Can Aokiji remove several thousand degrees of heat from magma instantly?

We don't know yet how cold Aokiji is, but Oda always limits the abilities of Devil Fruits, so there is probably a limit to how much heat Aokiji can remove.
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When I say 'My god...', god refers to Haruhi-sama.

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Last edited by C.A.; 2010-07-05 at 05:30.
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Old 2010-07-05, 05:12   Link #157
Distinction
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Thank you, i get it .
But it is science wise (real life) possible that he can ?
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Old 2010-07-05, 05:28   Link #158
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I'm 99.9% sure Akainu > Aokiji/Ace

and we've seen Akainu evaporate the iceberg Jozu threw instantly
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Old 2010-07-05, 08:12   Link #159
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^ I hope Aokiji is the strongest because from the 3 hax Logias his is the less powerfull one in paper.
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Old 2010-07-05, 08:16   Link #160
C.A.
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When Aokiji was introduced, he was said to be the strongest weapon of the Marines.

I think his greatest asset lies in his ability to freeze the sea, having control over the sea is a good ability to have when fighting pirates.
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