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Old 2008-02-24, 21:53   Link #1
grey_moon
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Bullying - The Dark Side of Life Reflected in Anime?

I've had some interesting conversations about bullying, so I did a little light reading about the subject. Anime like H2O and Shigofumi show it in a exaggerated and extreme way, but does it represent real life?

Many people have either been bullied or bullied others, but how much of your experiences actually relate to anime which you have seen?

One poster on the Shigofumi forum has stated that they were in a Tokyo high school and bullying like that does not happen (thank goodness).

But the thing is it does happen and I think that most of us subconsciously avoid it just like we avoid being hit by cars when we cross the road. Survival instinct I think would be a nice way to put it.

Personally I've experienced it, I've seen it in school, in the work place, and I've even ignored it. But I've never seen anything like what has been shown in anime as I believe that the writers are just fishing for a big emotional response from the viewer.

Now I would have never thought the following BBC article to be true where 71% of students have participated in bullying

71% of pupils admit being a bully

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emma-Jane Cross, chief executive, Beatbullying
Most bullying is low-level, perpetrated by young people who are easily led or incorrectly believe that it is inevitable, or worse still, that it makes them popular
This can be applied to H20...
Spoiler for For cause of bullying in H2O:
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Last edited by grey_moon; 2008-02-24 at 22:27. Reason: Correction of spaz attack
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Old 2008-02-24, 22:11   Link #2
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There's always if I dare say, most of not all anime has bullying excluding the Tsundure aspect of it. Bullying is just a part of life and like you said "But I've never seen anything like what has been shown in anime as I believe that the writers are just fishing for a big emotional response from the viewer." It presents a tense situation in which emotional feelings can be be brought out, maybe connect with some of the viewers.
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Old 2008-02-24, 22:14   Link #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_moon View Post
I've had some interesting conversations about bullying, so I did a little light reading about the subject. Anime like True Tears and Shigofumi show it in a exaggerated and extreme way, but does it represent real life?

Many people have either been bullied or bullied others, but how much of your experiences actually relate to anime which you have seen?

One poster on the Shigofumi forum has stated that they were in a Tokyo high school and bullying like that does not happen (thank goodness).

But the thing is it does happen and I think that most of us subconsciously avoid it just like we avoid being hit by cars when we cross the road. Survival instinct I think would be a nice way to put it.

Personally I've experienced it, I've seen it in school, in the work place, and I've even ignored it. But I've never seen anything like what has been shown in anime as I believe that the writers are just fishing for a big emotional response from the viewer.

Now I would have never thought the following BBC article to be true where 71% of students have participated in bullying

71% of pupils admit being a bully



This can be applied to True Tears...
Spoiler for For cause of bullying in TT:
I think you don't mean True Tears but rather H2O ~Footprints in the Sand~?

Anyways, I have my doubts about that poll. If I remember very carefully, then I can remember being bullied 3 times in my life and bullied other people for a total of 2 times. That would mean I'm part of the 71%, but it's not the active bullying that you're thinking of I'm sure.

Would you count the Haruhi x Mikuru relationship as bullying? Do you think that type of bullying is okay/not that bad? If the 71% is true in any way, then I don't think any percentage of that is similiar to the bullying in Shigofumi and H2O.

Once again I will say that I'm sure that kind of bullying doesn't happen but I don't mind it being portrayed as realistic in anime, since if it is done right and the anime is good, then that's great for me.
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Old 2008-02-24, 22:26   Link #4
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LOL ~ I just woke up, thanks for the correction. I'll edit the OP to reflect it
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Old 2008-02-24, 23:43   Link #5
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Heads up: this thread fits with this thread about bullying (apparently it's already back on page 3, I thought it was still on page 1). I don't really have much more to contribute to the topic... but if the poll you're mentioning states that the students were stating whether they bullied or not, I'm skeptical about the numbers.

Were the students given a definition of bullying? The article states that "For the purposes of the survey, bullying was defined as "being bullied twice a week over a period of six months and involving more than two types of bullying"" - which doesn't really seem to explain just what bullying is. In the other thread someone remarked that he sort of gave a weird individual a hard time, and supposed that he'd been bullying that individual as a result. If we look at it that way, then almost all of us have been bullies and I think most children would feel that, in hindsight, they've bullied others even if unintentionally. I don't consider that to be bullying, though - to me, bullying has a malicious intent behind it. Even if the act of causing pain itself doesn't bring pleasure to the bully (as in a case where people are doing it to be popular), attempting to cause pain or discomfort to another individual would count. Simply getting on someone's nerves because you were playful or couldn't take a hint that you were annoying them doesn't count as bullying in my mind.
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Old 2008-02-24, 23:56   Link #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
Would you count the Haruhi x Mikuru relationship as bullying? Do you think that type of bullying is okay/not that bad?

Yes, no.

I really dislike Haruhi's character for precisely this reason. At least she's an equal-opportunity bully, for instance, her treatment of the computer club president. I watched the show because I thought it was inventive and funny; Haruhi herself was the biggest obstacle to my enjoyment of it.
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Old 2008-02-25, 04:18   Link #7
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I wish there were a girl like Haruhi back when I was in high school..
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Old 2008-02-25, 04:43   Link #8
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Originally Posted by faustianideals View Post
I wish there were a girl like Haruhi back when I was in high school..
Trust me, you won't end up as her friend anyway.

Kyon was an amazing guy who took the goddess by the ponytail and tamed her in the heart. He might act and appear as a "regular guy," but most regular guys don't have his guts and his tolerance for Haruhi's bullying. Heck, most regular guys aren't half as funny and witty as he is even when we try our darnedest!

Sadly enough most regular guys also think they're as funny as Kyon when they really aren't, too...

In the anime it's cute and fun (I never get bothered by her "bullying" as some others do anyway), but in real life most people would just say something bad and call her a bitch or something.
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Old 2008-02-25, 05:31   Link #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_moon View Post
I've had some interesting conversations about bullying, so I did a little light reading about the subject. Anime like H2O and Shigofumi show it in a exaggerated and extreme way, but does it represent real life?

Many people have either been bullied or bullied others, but how much of your experiences actually relate to anime which you have seen?
It's not that much of an exaggeration, but you guys probably can't relate to identical situations.

From multiple first hand accounts (including my own), this type of bullying actually does happen in Asia, not just Japan. Usually it's a small group that targets one student, but the other students either ignore or help the bullies. The teachers would pretend to see nothing, as long as it's not going to cause the victim serious (read: noticable) physical harm.

In addition to the more recent anime like Shigofumi, GTO deals with many bullied students that Onizuka actually helps out (and ends up in trouble countless times for it, which is why normally nothing is done).

I've been in a class like that before. There is nothing you can do to stop it, unless you want to take the victim's place and/or join him in getting bullied. Everyone knows this, even the victim himself. Hell, the thought of helping him honestly never even crossed my mind back then, because even instinctively you know it's social suicide in the worst possible way.
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Old 2008-02-25, 10:11   Link #10
grey_moon
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Originally Posted by tripperazn View Post
It's not that much of an exaggeration, but you guys probably can't relate to identical situations.
That is very true. In my experience it was just one of two really nasty people doing the bullying. In work its an "alpha male" type (women as well as men) person trying to stamp their authority.

What shocked me was the 71%. I know averages shouldn't be used to label people as bullies, and it was using a test base of only 3000 students, but if you consider taking that value (71%) into a class room, and if they decide to pick on the weakest. IE the person already being picked on because they are different or quiet, then to the bullied it would appear that the whole class are against him. That makes the scenario depicted in Shigofumi quite realistic

Also one of the main problems of trying to see if there is any realism in anime bullying is how the news handles it. I know the article is about Security, but it can be applied to any bad situation being reported.

Chuck Norris on Security
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Old 2008-02-25, 10:16   Link #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_moon View Post
What shocked me was the 71%. I know averages shouldn't be used to label people as bullies, and it was using a test base of only 3000 students, but if you consider taking that value (71%) into a class room, and if they decide to pick on the weakest. IE the person already being picked on because they are different or quiet, then to the bullied it would appear that the whole class are against him. That makes the scenario depicted in Shigofumi quite realistic
The point has been brought up in the other thread by Ledgem, but it's worth restating. Just what defines "bullying"?

I considered myself a bully back then, thinking back to that time. I laughed at their jokes, didn't even try to stop it, and honestly didn't think much of the victim's feelings. I shared the same mentality, does that make me a bully? It really depends on the person you ask.
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Old 2008-02-25, 12:00   Link #12
grey_moon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripperazn View Post
The point has been brought up in the other thread by Ledgem, but it's worth restating. Just what defines "bullying"?

I considered myself a bully back then, thinking back to that time. I laughed at their jokes, didn't even try to stop it, and honestly didn't think much of the victim's feelings. I shared the same mentality, does that make me a bully? It really depends on the person you ask.
I would like to keep this in context of anime shows. Bringing in real life examples is good, but I think the more serious stuff should go in the other thread.

I think what they said about what makes a bully is really important. They set a criteria of "twice a week over a period of six months and involving more than two types of bullying". So having a laugh at another isn't counted as bullying, but constantly setting them up and having a laugh at them is. I guess as already mentioned it is all about intent.

Back to my two anime examples, both are examples of the greater group v the individual, with the intent in Shigofumi at horrible level of disregard of human life.
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Old 2008-02-25, 12:15   Link #13
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Theres a really really cute girl that gets bullied on the first episode of Hell Girl (Jigoku Shoumo), and I just really really REALLY wanted to hug her!!
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Old 2008-02-25, 12:22   Link #14
grey_moon
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Theres a really really cute girl that gets bullied on the first episode of Hell Girl (Jigoku Shoumo), and I just really really REALLY wanted to hug her!!
Actually I think in many cases that is all u need. One person to turn the tide (aka H2O), but I think we automatically duck our heads down to stop it from being lobbed off. The teachers/coaches/sergeants who ignore or perpetuate it should be hung out to dry.
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Old 2008-02-25, 12:27   Link #15
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If I knew of a girl that was being bullied I would comfort her as best I could.
But, If I 'Saw' a girl being bullied (By Guys) then that would be different. I would kick the guys ass, even try and take on a whole gang if I could. This is because I respect Females and their hardships in life that are twice as worse than that of a Male.

I totally respect the Female Gender.
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Old 2008-02-25, 12:30   Link #16
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I certainly can't see how H2O/Higurashi "bully" as true "bullying" case. These kind of utterly bad treatments aren't exactly that exaggerated, but has a stark depth in term of "reasons" and such, which is kinda a step farther than simple bullying.

As for Bully itself, speaking of experience, episode 6 of shigofumi didn't lift any much surprise to me (except maybe the pants and the beam parts).
As shown, it is quite "realist" because I believe that "only one person is needed" is simply a fairy tale. Seriously, until you can get a charismatic helper or so, there isn't much thing to do as those who want to help will either be bullied in the process or give up before even trying, so they won't be in the first case.
And this is only the problem for those who want to help the bullied. If you reverse the point of view, the bullied might refuse etc for various reasons (refuse to receive pity, draggin other people etc).

It is quite situational, depending of the "bullies" and "bullied", so saying anime series show that peculiar social issue is realist or not is kinda moot.
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Old 2008-02-25, 12:40   Link #17
grey_moon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
I certainly can't see how H2O/Higurashi "bully" as true "bullying" case. These kind of utterly bad treatments aren't exactly that exaggerated, but has a stark depth in term of "reasons" and such, which is kinda a step farther than simple bullying.

As for Bully itself, speaking of experience, episode 6 of shigofumi didn't lift any much surprise to me (except maybe the pants and the beam parts).
As shown, it is quite "realist" because I believe that "only one person is needed" is simply a fairy tale. Seriously, until you can get a charismatic helper or so, there isn't much thing to do as those who want to help will either be bullied in the process or give up before even trying, so they won't be in the first case.
And this is only the problem for those who want to help the bullied. If you reverse the point of view, the bullied might refuse etc for various reasons (refuse to receive pity, draggin other people etc).

It is quite situational, depending of the "bullies" and "bullied", so saying anime series show that peculiar social issue is realist or not is kinda moot.
Well the idea is not to say that anime reflects real life, but to say that with the report out by the BBC, could the shows have a closer reflection to real life then I personally have thought. In my day bullying was a socially bad thing to do, but if 71% of 3000 kids say that they have bullied a person (more then 2 times a week, for more then 6 months), then I would say that that is a frightening change in school life from when I knew it.
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Old 2008-02-25, 12:45   Link #18
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I wouldn't really know. I've never actually witnessed or experienced bullying. I'm usually really Silent and just say something nice or funny when I do speak, and now people just say what a cool guy I am. ^_^
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Old 2008-02-25, 15:27   Link #19
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stfu and hand me your allowances, and go make me a sandwich.

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Old 2008-02-25, 15:27   Link #20
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What Haruhi does is not bullying. No, I'd like to think bullying is more along the lines of having your classmates follow you home in middle school and whip rocks at you. Sorry, even if we were to make a chart and place various levels of bullying on it, Haruhi would be in the G level.
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