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Old 2008-02-27, 20:16   Link #81
Skyfall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by technomo12 View Post
but if

Mobile suit are made

expect massive war
Why ? We are fully capable of "massive war" today just as fine, with much greater efficiency than any impractical, humanoid, building sized mecha (which is a disadvantage in every shape and form) could ever hope to offer.
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Old 2008-02-27, 20:24   Link #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitto-chan View Post
Actually this may not be so far fetch. It has some characteristics of a mecha. Basically an enhancement suit. Extend the soldier survivability on the battle field. Could be outfitted with heavier guns or anti-tanks rounds. Very maneuverable, factor in the newer camouflage technology, a 3-4 meter mecha is not unrealistic.
that suit would actually be PERFECT for things like manual loading cannons, and in the airforce for moving heavy materials. I could also see it being used in construction for moving heavy objects in places where forklifts would be too large.
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Old 2008-02-27, 20:49   Link #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by technomo12 View Post
Here is all i can say

IF nanobots are developed

many people are goin to have super humans strenght and also they can chage any parts of their body to their ideal

but if

Mobile suit are made

expect massive war
Makes absolutely no sense. The likelihood of full scale war remains constant as long as there is a organization with a clear cut advantage. You're basically saying ok theres an army of soldiers who have 3x times the strength and endurance and capabilities of your average soldier, yet they're somehow less of a threat than maybe a 50 mobile suits which realistically considering production costs and projected maintenance costs any country could maintain (US Miltary expenditure 500billion USD as of 2007 )? On cybertron maybe.

No matter which technology develops the threat of war remains the same. I'd consider the army of super soldiers a bigger threat. Hell, even normal soldiers are a bigger concern than machines, provided the right stimulus you could get them to do whatever you want for next to no cost. You still need ground troops for any chance o sustaining an invasion dispatching just a mecha battalion or a airforce squadron on its own isn't going to gain or keep territory.
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Old 2008-02-27, 22:13   Link #84
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Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
Why ? We are fully capable of "massive war" today just as fine, with much greater efficiency than any impractical, humanoid, building sized mecha (which is a disadvantage in every shape and form) could ever hope to offer.
If we only consider land based and how speed is much greater then anything else (don't need much armour if you don't get hit and mech suits are going to be hard to armour up). A mecha would need to go at least:

70kmh to match a current tank
300kmh to match a apache
300kmh for warthog at attack speed

That is not even considering that the weapons fire go much faster then the vehicles do. Tanks and land based mecha being restricted to 2d means that all they really can do versus the speed of airborne stuff is hide.
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Old 2008-02-27, 23:43   Link #85
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Originally Posted by Nenkitsune View Post
that suit would actually be PERFECT for things like manual loading cannons, and in the airforce for moving heavy materials. I could also see it being used in construction for moving heavy objects in places where forklifts would be too large.

actually i was leaning to the side of actual combat usage if they ever figure out how to power it and make the movement more linear and fluid. It may be too expensive to use, but for elite squad I could see a few of these things do massive damage.

Possible usage in combat. Airdrop straight into enemy camp. By doing this the suit need the heavy armor of a tank, just enough armor to protect the user from frag grenades and rifle fires. Hell The unit could easily support 500lb worth of Kevlar, that should more than sufficient protect the user and two .50mm vulcan cannon used to shoot down jets.

What do you think of this suggestion?

While typing this I was reminded of Shock Trooper from C&C, heavy infantry doing construction work during downtime.
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Old 2008-02-28, 00:27   Link #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitto-chan View Post
actually i was leaning to the side of actual combat usage if they ever figure out how to power it and make the movement more linear and fluid. It may be too expensive to use, but for elite squad I could see a few of these things do massive damage.

Possible usage in combat. Airdrop straight into enemy camp. By doing this the suit need the heavy armor of a tank, just enough armor to protect the user from frag grenades and rifle fires. Hell The unit could easily support 500lb worth of Kevlar, that should more than sufficient protect the user and two .50mm vulcan cannon used to shoot down jets.

What do you think of this suggestion?

While typing this I was reminded of Shock Trooper from C&C, heavy infantry doing construction work during downtime.
Er...and what kind of parachute will keep THAT afloat?!

If the suit can somehow allow the pilots to survive the impact of dropping straight down, I think they'd do plenty of damage just by crashing through the roofs of the buildings they're supposed to be attacking.
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Old 2008-02-28, 02:44   Link #87
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hey, they para-drop tanks and trucks from planes, why not a big augmented suit soilder
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Old 2008-02-28, 03:34   Link #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitto-chan View Post
actually i was leaning to the side of actual combat usage if they ever figure out how to power it and make the movement more linear and fluid. It may be too expensive to use, but for elite squad I could see a few of these things do massive damage.

Possible usage in combat. Airdrop straight into enemy camp. By doing this the suit need the heavy armor of a tank, just enough armor to protect the user from frag grenades and rifle fires. Hell The unit could easily support 500lb worth of Kevlar, that should more than sufficient protect the user and two .50mm vulcan cannon used to shoot down jets.

What do you think of this suggestion?
I honestly don't see how a suit like that can really aid the combat abilities of a soldier. The only real advantage I'd see would be to prevent fatigue in extended combat, unless they mount weapons on the frame, of course. And I doubt a single, or elite group of people in these suits being dropped right into the enemy camps would stand a chance at all. With something like a falling soldier, made larger by a bulky suit, it wouldn't take much effort to point a high caliber machine gun upward, or even launch a surface to air missile. Even if the troops did make it onto the ground unscathed, RPG's, grenades and armor-piercing rounds would punch through the suit and make the soldiers into canned hamburger.

Now, this exoskeleton suit would be good for construction, in supply areas, or even in loading heavy rounds into artillery. Until you can make armor like Master Chief's, I don't think something like that is feasible in the front lines.
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Old 2008-02-28, 03:48   Link #89
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I could imagine a use for such a heavily protected exoskeleton suit. In warfare it is often necessary to control urban areas, which otfen involves close quarter combat. Usually heavy weaponry is not used inside buildings, there heavily armored troops could operate far more safely. And maybe use non lethal means to disable armed enemies, which is of great importance if civilians or hostages are located in the operation area.
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Old 2008-02-28, 03:57   Link #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nenkitsune View Post
hey, they para-drop tanks and trucks from planes, why not a big augmented suit soilder
I think the ork suits with special forces from appleseed are probably best for soldiers. Once you start getting into Halo land the suits and soldiers become too rare and expensive
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Old 2008-02-28, 04:19   Link #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinto View Post
I could imagine a use for such a heavily protected exoskeleton suit. In warfare it is often necessary to control urban areas, which otfen involves close quarter combat. Usually heavy weaponry is not used inside buildings, there heavily armored troops could operate far more safely. And maybe use non lethal means to disable armed enemies, which is of great importance if civilians or hostages are located in the operation area.
I don't see much of a use in urban combat, either. Though the suits would be more useful than large mechs, going inside buildings would give them a much less room to maneuver. (going with an estimated size seen in the linked video) I can see how a suit able to pick up 70 pound loads like nothing at all could be good for melee combat, since a punch to the face from one of those would make for a hell of a headache, but increased strength doesn't really aid aiming, firing, or adding dexterity in combat. If anything, the bulky suits might actually hinder movement that would be vital for close quarters combat.
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Old 2008-02-28, 04:54   Link #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan the Man View Post
I don't see much of a use in urban combat, either. Though the suits would be more useful than large mechs, going inside buildings would give them a much less room to maneuver. (going with an estimated size seen in the linked video)
Sorry can't see youtube videos at workplace But I have a look into it later.
I was thinking of a suit similar to what bomb squats wear. But supported by an exosceleton and servos. It would basically just intensify movement strength of the operaor in order to compensate for the extra weight of the heavy armor.

Of course mobility will be decreased. Though not the entire team need to be deployed in such suits. The unit that is storming forefront however, could benefit from above average additional balastic and melee protection. And in that sense serving as a possible cover for other less protected units.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan the Man View Post
I can see how a suit able to pick up 70 pound loads like nothing at all could be good for melee combat, since a punch to the face from one of those would make for a hell of a headache, but increased strength doesn't really aid aiming, firing, or adding dexterity in combat. If anything, the bulky suits might actually hinder movement that would be vital for close quarters combat.
Which is why I was speaking about non-lethal means to disable armed enemies. This can include melee action, or the use of non-lethal weapons. Usually highly accurate aiming isn't needed then, because it is close quarter combat, which assumes short distances. Further since the weapons are non-lethal, there are no overpenetration risks, or risk of killing innocents due to misaim/mishit.
Such a unit will usually attract most fire since it is the biggest and first of the units moving in, this will aid the other units in disabling the enemy.
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Old 2008-02-28, 10:27   Link #93
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that's also not to include fighting in extreme environments. arctic, desert, altitude, deep sea, areas with bc/nuclear contamination that's just by simply adding the appropriate protection. Napalm is still used AFAIK, as well as whole host of extremely toxic chemicals in day to day field ops. Also consider that the larger weight carrying capacity allows them to carry more ammunition, extending their combat capability. Or alternatively larger more destructive weapons. A LAW weighs around 10 kgs. Realistically you could carry one LAW and maybe 3-4 rounds plus your standard weapons, pistol + 2-3 clips, SMG + 2-3clips and your other field equipment. You could realistically double or triple that. Building sandbag emplacements would be far more efficient. It'd be a boon for minesweeping operations and bomb disposal as well, as providing it with adequate armor (reactive possibly?) greatly increases survivability. So personally I think the exo skeleton concept is far more realistic as there are clear areas where it upgrades current limitations. Where as a 30ft mech does not.
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Last edited by hobbes_fan; 2008-02-28 at 10:37.
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Old 2008-02-28, 13:39   Link #94
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Originally Posted by hobbes_fan View Post
So personally I think the exo skeleton concept is far more realistic as there are clear areas where it upgrades current limitations. Where as a 30ft mech does not.
No one has mentioned the VOTOMS yet. Rugged, fast moving due to tracks, able to handle rough terrain with a grappling hook and specialized equipment.

Still a bit cannon fodderish , wiki says

Quote:
ATs are rugged, simple machines equipped with one or two weapon systems, usually a light automatic cannon and a rocket or missile pod.
Oh how could I not mentioned camouflaged!
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Old 2008-02-28, 14:17   Link #95
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Originally Posted by grey_moon View Post
No one has mentioned the VOTOMS yet. Rugged, fast moving due to tracks, able to handle rough terrain with a grappling hook and specialized equipment.

Still a bit cannon fodderish , wiki says
They work for me because they're not over engineered. They were pretty much motorized trash cans. No matter how you look at it infantry = cannon fodder. You will always need an infantry force to secure a location. eg 2 dozen mechs in the middle of say Baghdad, does nothing to change the situation. You can't fight an insurgency using 30 ft mechs. What you're trying to do is increase survivability. If your infantry is invulnerable to small arms fire then that forces your opposition to use an appropriate countermeasure. Look at the tech used in modern front line land weapons - diesel/petrol engines, BFG + anti personnel weapons. The diesel is possibly the most ancient and the hardiest engine around. Fuel's readily available, it is fairly safe, diesel is far less combustible than the proposed jet fuel used by the gundam projection. Before anyone says the use jet engines if planes well consider what a jet is doing as opposed to a mech. The days of in close dogfighting are over. Not with fire and forget missiles able to be launched from 100km away. Any backyard mechanic will tell you diesel engines are far easier to repair. It's nice to have a piece of tech light years ahead but you have to consider maintenance particularly field repairs. Sure modern tanks bigger, have better range, more destructive weapons, but at their core they still utilise the same fundamentals of early tanks. There's a reason why the term is "Built like a tank".

Ask the German's about the WWII failure of the over engineered Tiger vs the cheap and reliable Russian T34
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Last edited by hobbes_fan; 2008-02-28 at 14:28.
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Old 2008-03-20, 19:16   Link #96
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This isn't exactly new, but I just ran across it and didn't see this posted here, so I'll bring it up.

I've maintained for a long while that walking mecha could very well have military application for navigating terrain that can't be driven over, and that four legged mecha would be the way to start that.

Behold, the Boston Dynamics "Big Dog", partly funded by DARPA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1czBcnX1Ww

It's not perfect, but remarkable nonetheless even if the design weren't so simple and crude.
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Old 2008-03-20, 19:18   Link #97
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Old 2008-03-24, 21:42   Link #98
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if they can build something like a fusion reacter, something in lieu of mechwarrior is prob possible

tbh elemental battle aremor from that same universe is prob the way were going. i.e. mechanically enchanced mech infantry
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