AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Haruhi Suzumiya

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-08-26, 15:37   Link #19061
Heatth
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Brasil
Age: 24
Send a message via MSN to Heatth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
We're not changing how we've referred to Itsuko from the beginning. That's final, so please, please stop bringing up the issue.

WE DO NOT NEED TO JUSTIFY EVERYTHING WE DO.

That is all. Now please, let's stop discussing this.
Exept pretty much everthing was justified. I am just asking the 'why' now.

This is probably the best asnwer:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Basically that means you don't want to go back and try to hunt down every instance of the work "Itsuko" spoken by Kyonko and adjust it because it would take a month at least to hunt them all down in context and all. Plus you don't want to have to find a place to put a justification into a story because then you'd have to find were or if there was a switching in how Itsuko is refered to by Kyonko.

Basically.
PP:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
And I wouldn't do it even if I had the energy to do so.

And you want justifications, Heatth?

Honestly, if I knew T&K's first names? I'd have her refer to them as such.

But we don't so we're stuck like this. Maybe Kyonko simply doesn't consider them friends, while she considers Itsuko one. You'll note Itsuko is generally less creepy than Itsuki is.

So. I ask you, why shouldn't she call Itsuko by her first name? They're close, Itsuko is the only girl in the brigade, she's the only one Kyonko can really talk to about her problems... and she, like I said, unlike her male counterpart, considers Itsuko an actual friend.


For that matter, about Haruki being 'special' to her... at this point, before the end of Sighs, he really isn't. In fact, I'd say that she hates him.

No sane girl would be more than physically attracted to him at this point. There is some emotional attachment, but honestly, he makes her life hell.

Only after the end of Sighs, and Live Alive, after he starts to grow up, does Kyonko start becoming truly attracted to him. Though she'll never admit it.

That good enough for you?
Actually, yes it is. So, the point is the relationship between Kyonko and Itsuko Iis different from Kyon and Itsuki? And the same goes for Kyonko and Haruki? Actually, this make sense. While Kyon genually like Haruhi from the start, the same don't really happens for Kyonko? Cause Haruki is a jerk (well, Haruhi is too, but she is a girl)?

Thanks a lot, really.
Heatth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-26, 15:38   Link #19062
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 25
See above...
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-26, 15:42   Link #19063
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
And I wouldn't do it even if I had the energy to do so.

And you want justifications, Heatth?

Honestly, if I knew T&K's first names? I'd have her refer to them as such.
I agree with you here.

I know that Heatth and others have refused to accept it, but on the whole, Japanese female characters do call each other by given names moreso than Japanese male characters do.

I'm not about to sift through dozens upon dozens of animes to demonstrate this numerically, and I'll admit that of course there are exceptions to the rule, but I'm almost positive that, on the whole, Japanese girls tend to call each other by their given name more than Japanese guys do. I've watched a lot of anime, and this is a definite impression that I've gotten over time.

This alone is reason enough for me to be perfectly comfortable with Kyonko refering to Itsuko as Itsuko while Kyon refers to Itsuki as Koizumi.
__________________
Triple_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-26, 15:44   Link #19064
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 25
Yes. In the end, boys and girls are different.

Wasn't this one of the main points of Seitenkan anyway? To find out what happens because of the gender change? Or am I misremembering what I was there for in the first place?
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-26, 15:45   Link #19065
Heatth
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Brasil
Age: 24
Send a message via MSN to Heatth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I agree with you here.

I know that Heatth and others have refused to accept it, but on the whole, Japanese female characters do call each other by given names moreso than Japanese male characters do.
It is not about refusing to accept. Is just that, given she can't call T&K by their names, calling Itsuko by her make it automatically awkward. It just that, given the ciscunstance, it doesn't really work.

Anyway, I edited my post, you guys post too fst (or I am too slow)

PP:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Yes. In the end, boys and girls are different.

Wasn't this one of the main points of Seitenkan anyway? To find out what happens because of the gender change? Or am I misremembering what I was there for in the first place?
The point is I really fail in see how the gender matter here. Also, as I said, the main point is not this was T&K and, specially, Haruki. You explained the latter pretty well.

(Can you stop posting in less the 3 minutes, please? I can't rea/write that fast )
Heatth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-26, 15:50   Link #19066
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatth View Post
Actually, yes it is. So, the point is the relationship between Kyonko and Itsuko Iis different from Kyon and Itsuki? And the same goes for Kyonko and Haruki? Actually, this make sense. While Kyon genually like Haruhi from the start, the same don't really happens for Kyonko? Cause Haruki is a jerk (well, Haruhi is too, but she is a girl)?
Yesssss.

Generally, Kyon is shallow where Kyonko is... still shallow, but not nearly as much. She's also a fair bit more open to interpersonal relationships. As a trade-off, she's quicker to anger.

Kyon =/= Kyonko.
Haruhi =/= Haruki.
Mikuru =/= Mitsuuru.
Itsuki =/= Itsuko.
Yuki == Yuuki. Wait...

You see my point, however.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatth View Post
The point is I really fail in see how the gender matter here. Also, as I said, the main point is not this was T&K and, specially, Haruki. You explained the latter pretty well.
Boys and girls are different. Gender is the basis for everything. Butterfly Effect.

This alone should be enough explanation for you, but...
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-26, 16:01   Link #19067
Heatth
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Brasil
Age: 24
Send a message via MSN to Heatth
Actually, I thought one of the things were keep the main points by change the situation. So, Kyonko is still protective to Mitsuru, but now not because of a crush, but because a sisterly afection. Similarly, I thought the basis of the relation between Haruki and Kyonko was the same as Haruhi and Kyon (obviously, is hard to tell because Kyon still acts as he didn't lik Haruhi, even it don't being true).
Heatth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-26, 16:25   Link #19068
scify
Sometimes minor editor
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: East Coast US
Age: 27
Send a message via MSN to scify
*cough* On a change of topic, I'm now kicking myself for not recognizing the computer game/web page as a metaphor for the VN itself. Assuming I'm right, it'd be awesome if the player could actually use it to understand the paths in the VN. Might be beyond Ren'py's abilities, though.

Also, starting to question my previous opinion on the Voices in Shadow and greentext. Still not sure what I think, though.

Also, awesome little scene, Kogetsu. I can completely picture Itsuko doing something like that, too...

EDIT: Oh, and just a curiosity on my part after rereading The Grass is Always Greener, has anyone else noticed how often women's lips are described as tasting like strawberries? Why is this? Is there something I'm missing in all the kissing I've done?

Spoiler for The Grass is Always Greener:

And so Kyonko becomes the TTGL?

It's refreshing to reread this after my head has cleared from the first time through... so many details I missed.
__________________
By the book, by hook, by rook,
Shadow takes all, my pet;
My what a strange duet.
Shadow takes all.

Last edited by scify; 2009-08-26 at 17:13.
scify is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-26, 16:47   Link #19069
Heatth
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Brasil
Age: 24
Send a message via MSN to Heatth
Quote:
Originally Posted by scify View Post
*cough* On a change of topic, I'm now kicking myself for not recognizing the computer game/web page as a metaphor for the VN itself. Assuming I'm right, it'd be awesome if the player could actually use it to understand the paths in the VN. Might be beyond Ren'py's abilities, though.
Is more probably being beyond the programers's abilities then Ren'py's, actually. Actually, if we keep the the random symbols still, or at last moving robticly, it is kinda easy, I believe. It depends how many fancy effects Kaisos wants on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scify View Post
Also, starting to question my previous opinion on the Voices in Shadow and greentext. Still not sure what I think, though.
Pst then. It is interesting see what people think. (sinse I can't speculate by myself now).

By the way, in another change of subject, the player's pov is aways Kyon when Kyonko is nearby right? I am wondering if it might be a good idea keep changing during their dialogues.

Like, in the shoes lock scene, first Kyon arrives and say something to Kyonko. Then, we hear Kyonko's thought now and some more lines, then change to Kyon. The choices appear and just after we pick one it change back to Kyonko and so on...

Might be interesting to show both thoughts of the discussion, as we were playing both during the game. Don't really know if it would work though.
Heatth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-26, 17:16   Link #19070
Aebliss
Story Master
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Send a message via AIM to Aebliss
Ahem. Here to derail the topic some more: 'Suzumiya Haruki no Setsubun' will be coming to an end soon. At the very least, I'd like to compile the various chapters into one big document for easier reading. I'd love fanart to add to the thing. ^^ Is there anyone here of artistic inclinations who would like to make an illustration or two?
Aebliss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-26, 17:32   Link #19071
Heatth
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Brasil
Age: 24
Send a message via MSN to Heatth
A Makuro ilustration! It needs to be a Makuro ilustration! However, the few artist we have are kinda busy wth the VN, I believe?
Heatth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-26, 17:32   Link #19072
Roger Rambo
Sensei, aishite imasu
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aebliss View Post
Ahem. Here to derail the topic some more: 'Suzumiya Haruki no Setsubun' will be coming to an end soon. At the very least, I'd like to compile the various chapters into one big document for easier reading. I'd love fanart to add to the thing. ^^ Is there anyone here of artistic inclinations who would like to make an illustration or two?
Fucking A.
Roger Rambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-26, 17:48   Link #19073
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 25
Hey guys, remember this request?

Quote:
Off-the-current-topic:

Another "Lol Itsuko theorizing" scene is coming up in the VN... due to the responses last time, I thought I'd ask:

What random, yet relevant theories do you want to hear Itsuko spout out, for those who have been paying attention? Anything else you want to hear?

This is the Seitenkan Brigade's "We're Stuck in Another World, what the fuck is going on Meeting" so I'd love the help, if possible.
Please?
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-26, 17:50   Link #19074
Kogetsu Shirogane
Crackshipper
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mitakihara
Age: 29
Send a message via AIM to Kogetsu Shirogane
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatth View Post
Well, this is kinda totally overlly gay.
Well then, if I'm capable of making a scene where Itsuko is intentionally presenting a scenario Kyonko won't like in order to get a more favorable result seem like something else entirely, I may be a much better writer than I thought when it comes to the character. Then again...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe4evr View Post
This made me think of another kind of befriending was going on.
... perhaps a Nanoha reference was a little counterproductive.
__________________
Kyouko Sakura and Madoka Kaname, Puella Magi Madoka Magica
WARNING: Kogetsu Shirogane cannot be held accountable for any actions taken by someone else. Potential side effects of communicating with this user include headaches, mild confusion, insanity, delirium, and jumping into fires. Do not expose this user to sunlight or water or feed this user after midnight.
... well at least it's consistent...
Kogetsu Shirogane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-26, 18:05   Link #19075
vivify93
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Age: 21
Send a message via MSN to vivify93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos
No sane girl would be more than physically attracted to him at this point. There is some emotional attachment, but honestly, he makes her life hell.
Heh, that's actually pretty good though. Man, I could picture myself in the Seitenkan Brigade.

Me: *sees Haruki staring at him with a sour look on his face*
Haruki: ...
Me: *sigh* What?
Haruki: You're fat.
Me: -_-
Kyonko: Welcome to the club.
Haruki: No, seriously, are all people in the West this fat? How the hell has America not collapsed into a black hole unto itself due to all the weight!?

I'll stop now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Also Kaisos
Boys and girls are different.
...Srsly? Wow, I thought the only difference between boys and girls is that boys liked beef and girls liked chicken!

Nyoro~n.
__________________
LONG LIVE THE QUEEN.

Last edited by vivify93; 2009-08-26 at 18:06. Reason: Brigade not specified. This has been corrected.
vivify93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-26, 18:07   Link #19076
Kogetsu Shirogane
Crackshipper
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mitakihara
Age: 29
Send a message via AIM to Kogetsu Shirogane
Quote:
Originally Posted by vivify93 View Post
Me: *sees Haruki staring at him with a sour look on his face*
Haruki: ...
Me: *sigh* What?
Haruki: You're fat.
Me: -_-
Kyonko: Welcome to the club.
Haruki: No, seriously, are all people in the West this fat? How the hell has America not collapsed into a black hole unto itself due to all the weight!?
... Is it okay to laugh?
__________________
Kyouko Sakura and Madoka Kaname, Puella Magi Madoka Magica
WARNING: Kogetsu Shirogane cannot be held accountable for any actions taken by someone else. Potential side effects of communicating with this user include headaches, mild confusion, insanity, delirium, and jumping into fires. Do not expose this user to sunlight or water or feed this user after midnight.
... well at least it's consistent...
Kogetsu Shirogane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-26, 18:10   Link #19077
vivify93
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Age: 21
Send a message via MSN to vivify93
Yes, Kogetsu, it's OK to laugh. It was intended to be moderately funny, at least.
__________________
LONG LIVE THE QUEEN.
vivify93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-26, 18:31   Link #19078
DJ_RockmanX
性転換 団長
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Socal
Age: 24
Send a message via AIM to DJ_RockmanX Send a message via MSN to DJ_RockmanX Send a message via Skype™ to DJ_RockmanX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Hey guys, remember this request?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Off-the-current-topic:

Another "Lol Itsuko theorizing" scene is coming up in the VN... due to the responses last time, I thought I'd ask:

What random, yet relevant theories do you want to hear Itsuko spout out, for those who have been paying attention? Anything else you want to hear?

This is the Seitenkan Brigade's "We're Stuck in Another World, what the fuck is going on Meeting" so I'd love the help, if possible.
Please?
This is the part where you people come to the aid of our writer yo.
__________________

DJ_RockmanX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-26, 18:34   Link #19079
Kogetsu Shirogane
Crackshipper
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mitakihara
Age: 29
Send a message via AIM to Kogetsu Shirogane
Someone did provide a suggestion, though... then the name sidetracking happened. I really don't have much to offer in terms of random theorizing, so I can't really help in that regard.
__________________
Kyouko Sakura and Madoka Kaname, Puella Magi Madoka Magica
WARNING: Kogetsu Shirogane cannot be held accountable for any actions taken by someone else. Potential side effects of communicating with this user include headaches, mild confusion, insanity, delirium, and jumping into fires. Do not expose this user to sunlight or water or feed this user after midnight.
... well at least it's consistent...
Kogetsu Shirogane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-26, 18:49   Link #19080
DJ_RockmanX
性転換 団長
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Socal
Age: 24
Send a message via AIM to DJ_RockmanX Send a message via MSN to DJ_RockmanX Send a message via Skype™ to DJ_RockmanX
I think Kaisos is looking for something along the lines of writeups. Something to go by and integrate into the scene. You know.
__________________

DJ_RockmanX is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
genderbender, seitenkan

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 13:04.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.