Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[KaneDragon]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

We already know, the seal was what implanted the Silver into the R. Meigo.

No, it didn't implant Silver, it just appears to have created some kind of connection, though which Silver--whose actual body is held in the Bal Masque place--tried to escape when Pheles showed up, before being sealed up by Hecate.

But we don't know what it actually is and what it is ultimately supposed to accomplish. Not to mention what the heck Silver was trying to do.


Something else that bugs me about this episode: pulling that anti-Stigma spell out of nowhere. Yes, Johan had been working on it, but he hadn't managed to complete it before being stuffed in the Raging Mango. So he continues to work on it in the meantime. Fine. But they manage to establish contact with him and learn the spell, all off screen? Or did Wilhelmina really somehow know the finished spell anyway, but really saved it until the last possible second to 'lure Sabby into a false sense of security' despite being pushed to the limit and Sabby having Power Overwhelming? Where did Shana and Margery get it? Where am I wrong with this?

[FlareKnight]

Well at least on the simple side. Shana and Margery got it from Yuji. Carmel passed it along to him and he escaped during the fight in order to pass it around.

Bit iffy on the time line of events that lead to it being used here. Clearly Johan had been working on it after all the attacks they had from Sabrac. Probably was near completion during that final moment. Carmel was probably in the loop on how things were going. Then Carmel managed to get it finished, tested (how you do that without being attacked I'm not sure) and ready to go for this episode. Either that or he had just completed it, but it still required tests etc before being viable.

Don't think he was secretly working away in the Reiji Maigo to finish it up. Does seem that Carmel was waiting until the right time to use it. After all the moment Sabrac realizes that Stigma isn't effective he may change his strategy. If he thinks you are being worn down then you can keep him chasing you. Either that or it was all for a really dramatic effect .

[KaneDragon]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

If he thinks you are being worn down then you can keep him chasing you. Either that or it was all for a really dramatic effect .

Problem being, she was being worn down. As absurd as Sabrac was for most of the fight, holding back the antidote and letting those wounds fester and weaken her more and more is rather iffy. She sure fooled us, then, didn't she? And anyway, that was some spiffy Magic Antidote, considering it not only cured her Poison status but also reversed the existing damage.

Why not just use Yuji as a meat shield in the initial blast and heal him when Sabby isn't looking?

Shana got the counterspell from "Yuhan", clearly, since she was content to chill with Yoshida until Yuji showed up. But communicating with Johan is a big deal. Johan only got out once before, accidentally, thanks to Margery's tangled web of spells. So not even giving the event a token mention confuses me, if that is indeed the case.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Originally Posted by KaneDragon

Problem being, she was being worn down. As absurd as Sabrac was for most of the fight, holding back the antidote and letting those wounds fester and weaken her more and more is rather iffy. She sure fooled us, then, didn't she? And anyway, that was some spiffy Magic Antidote, considering it not only cured her Poison status but also reversed the existing damage.

Why not just use Yuji as a meat shield in the initial blast and heal him when Sabby isn't looking?

I believe she needed to ensure that someone was there to deliver the 'cure' to Margery and Shana, and I doubt she would dare to take any risks with Yuji, especially when she was somewhat angry that he still had not left even after delivering the bandages.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by KaneDragon

Shana got the counterspell from "Yuhan", clearly, since she was content to chill with Yoshida until Yuji showed up. But communicating with Johan is a big deal. Johan only got out once before, accidentally, thanks to Margery's tangled web of spells. So not even giving the event a token mention confuses me, if that is indeed the case.

Honestly don't think there was any communication with Johan aside from the chat he had with Pheles during the episode he got out. I'm working under the belief that Carmel had the counter before all that even happened. Since there wasn't a moment where she could have talked to him about it and Pheles left almost immediately after.

[viny]

Master planner Yuji strikes again!!!!
Quite a good fighting episode!

[HashiriyaR32]

Now how would a ballistic shield stand up against Sabrac's "Rocket Limb Chaos Bomb"?

[cnnydz]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Honestly don't think there was any communication with Johan aside from the chat he had with Pheles during the episode he got out. I'm working under the belief that Carmel had the counter before all that even happened. Since there wasn't a moment where she could have talked to him about it and Pheles left almost immediately after.

the counter spell was created by johan but it was not finished, wilhelmina completed it during the fight.

[Kinny Riddle]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

I think its 26 episodes... At least I hope its 26.

Anyway, finally got around to watching this episode, and I have to say it was amazing. Its been a continuous string of great episodes. And it looks like it won't let up till the end.

Kazumi needs to stop, she's so annoying... She knows full well that Yuji loves Shana and vice versa, she has absolutely no chance of winning, damn broad cant take no for an answer >_>...

With all due respect to your cute Shana avatar, I am beginning to get sick and tired of your excessive slander towards Yoshida for every minute she makes an appearance for the last few weeks.

Your partizan bias for Shana is now bordering on the extreme and unreasonable. Oh and before you say anything, I'm all for Yuji ending up with Shana, but I don't find Yoshida the least bit dislikeable. Even Shana herself doesn't find Yoshida annoying to want her dead. You ought to be ashamed of yourself for claiming to be supporting her in her best interests with such malice.

I shall say no more.

[Deathscyther]

I too find the Yoshida bashing annoying. We know that you don't like her by now, but you don't have to put your hate for Yoshida in every post.

I agree that the novel version of Yoshida was much less annoying, I even like her quite a bit in the novels (I haven't read them all yet though), but there is no reason to hate the anime Yoshida this much.

I too am a Yuji x Shana supporter, but that doesn't mean that I want Yoshida out of the way (some people even want her dead...)

[dave1992]

Well, Kazumi is just incomparable to that Uchite...

[Sterling01]

The Yoshida bashing is very funny to read
The Shana fanatics are even funnier

Though this may be because I'm a Yuji X Bel Peol supporter (Just picked at random)

[DeotoxSlayer]

Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle

With all due respect to your cute Shana avatar, I am beginning to get sick and tired of your excessive slander towards Yoshida for every minute she makes an appearance for the last few weeks.

Your partizan bias for Shana is now bordering on the extreme and unreasonable. Oh and before you say anything, I'm all for Yuji ending up with Shana, but I don't find Yoshida the least bit dislikeable. Even Shana herself doesn't find Yoshida annoying to want her dead. You ought to be ashamed of yourself for claiming to be supporting her in her best interests with such malice.

I shall say no more.

I'm gonna have to agree with kinny on this one, I mean I don't really like Kazumi either, but from what i can tell from Cnnydz's comparison of novel, and anime Kazumi, and from reading the first 2 novels (why did Viz have to licencence the Novels why!!!!!!!!!!!!! T_T) she actually seems tolerable, and her character is "Stronger" than the anime one, The only reason people hate Kazumi is becuase J.C messed up her character, and unfortunately most of us will never read the novels, so we won't know what Kazumi was actually supposed to be like.

[CapoExecutor]

Originally Posted by Sterling01

The Yoshida bashing is very funny to read
The Shana fanatics are even funnier

Though this may be because I'm a Yuji X Bel Peol supporter (Just picked at random)

You're not the only one who supports a Yuji X Bel Peol ship despite the fact that my reasons are different and such a pairing is the least likely to happen.

[K-san]

This episode has to be the best episode I've seen so far.
I had to watch it twice, because it's such a AWESOME episode.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by cnnydz

that's why i think the novels are so much better than the anime. in the novels, during the fight with sabrac and before yuji figured out a plan

Spoiler for differences from novels:

shana said to kazumi that if she dies then kazumi should use the hougu to call for pheles and escape with yuji(she doesn't know the drawbacks of the hougu), but then kazumi said if shana dies then the hougu would become worthless and decided she need to protect shana and yuji with her life, but it was not needed in the end as sabrac's true form was discovered.

but yeah, the anime version of kazumi is really selfish and annoying.

I seriously wonder how all this Kazumi hate can blindly overlook any flaws that Shana has as well its borderline obsessive and compulsive. Its like hate for the sake of hate maybe you misunderstood where I was coming from. My point was if you hate Kazumi for the feelings she has Yuji then you need to hate Shana to for any argument of that type to hold weight. Majority of the post aimed at flaming Kazumi are biased with most comments being i hate what she says, shes annoying. Yet majority of viewers refuse to look outside of the box and see WHY certain events have happen and HOW things ended as they have. Sigh I would just like to see a valid informative Intelligent post about hating her rather then jumping on the bandwagon post. I am in favor of ShanaxYuji but in order to understand the message behind the love triangle i think its boils down to a little more than "Kazumi is annoying" 90% of the hate post about Kazumi are unfounded, unreasonable have no real meat behind it. Wishing for her death and calling her evil i have not see one shred of evidence to conclude that she is evil nor have I seen anyone with a post that was worth reading that offered any kind logical explanation behind why they dislike her. No one says you have to like her if you dont say you and dont move the hell on instead every other post being how she was annoying. Its bothersome, pointless and unfounded.

Ask your self how would you feel if someone said the feelings you had for another were annoying when you were serious. "he who cast the first stone" I say

[KaneDragon]

Originally Posted by Sterling01

The Yoshida bashing is very funny to read
The Shana fanatics are even funnier

Though this may be because I'm a Yuji X Bel Peol supporter (Just picked at random)

Call it "Yuji x Hecate" and you may be on to something.

[Proto]

Nay, Yuuji x Lamies. Traps FTW.

Anyway, I have mixed feelings about this episode. While action wise it was a very good episode, we have to remember that SnS is not a shounen series, so calling this the best episode of the series would be counter-intuitive to what SnS has been tryinig to convey all this time.

[HayashiTakara]

Sorry, can't keep a straight face anymore, don't take me too seriously, really, its true I'm a Shana fanatic, and that I don't like Kazumi, but my hate doesn't run that deep XD.

Anyways, how long do you think it'll take before Yuji becomes a badass fighter? There should a timeskip OVA in like a hundred years in the future showing Shana and Yuji in different clothes totally kicking ass and taking names side by side in an epic battle.

[KaneDragon]

If it's a hundred years in the future, it is nigh-required that Yuji somehow acquire at least parts of Silver's armor and become like Robocop.