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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 22 Rating
Perfect 10 151 62.66%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 52 21.58%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 22 9.13%
7 out of 10 : Good 9 3.73%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 0.83%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.41%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.41%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.41%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 0.83%
Voters: 241. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-03-12, 14:05   Link #581
TLeo198
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[QUOTE=4Tran;1455785]

And, out of curiosity, how the heck did Setsuna find out where they were in time to come to the rescue?


QUOTE]

I don't think Setsuna intended to rescue the Trinitys at all, seeing as to how he was surprised Ali was in the cockpit AFTER attacking Zwei. I wouldn't be surprised if he still went after Nena in the next episode.
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Old 2008-03-12, 14:07   Link #582
DJ_RockmanX
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That can't be right. The whole premise behind the intervention was "The UN Force is a war inciting party for attacking the Gundam Thrones". And the cutscene with Katie at the AEU Orbital Station highlighted the idea that the Ptolemaios crew was trying to aid Team Trinity.
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Old 2008-03-12, 14:08   Link #583
AlphaDragoon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLeo198 View Post
I don't think Setsuna intended to rescue the Trinitys at all, seeing as to how he was surprised Ali was in the cockpit AFTER attacking Zwei. I wouldn't be surprised if he still went after Nena in the next episode.
I dunno about that. When he and Lasse hit the scene it was right when Drei get rushed down and got the big sword put to its cockpit, judging by the fact that he was able to rush in and save Nena before Ali could finish the job...so he probably assumed there was something wrong there.
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Old 2008-03-12, 14:26   Link #584
Subarunyon
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Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX View Post
That can't be right. The whole premise behind the intervention was "The UN Force is a war inciting party for attacking the Gundam Thrones". And the cutscene with Katie at the AEU Orbital Station highlighted the idea that the Ptolemaios crew was trying to aid Team Trinity.
That's what they thought since they dont know that the Trinities and Ptolemaios are actually against each other (they are just aware that the two teams act differently). We probably wont ever know what Setsuna thought when he saw Zwei pointing his sword at Drei, probably he was thinking "Gundams are not toys!"

Regarding who he wanted to attack, he'll probably try to atk both parties if the battle is still on, which is why the so-called "mission plan" doesnt make much sense to begin with.... Lucky that it's just the trinities around at the time.
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Old 2008-03-12, 14:49   Link #585
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That can't be quite right either. The world powers got the information about the Gundam vs Gundam melee back in episode 19, and knew about Celestial Being's internal conflict. The only reasonable cause for the crew in space to come down to intervene in a battle fought by the crew on the ground would be to try and help each other.

And remember Setsuna's whole thing about why the Gundams exist. He doesn't believe in the Trinity's methods, but they ARE trying to achieve the same declared goal of eradicating war from the world.
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Old 2008-03-12, 14:58   Link #586
Aquaman OS
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The really was no mission "plan" Setsuna was going to make contact with the Trinity again to see "What a Gundam really is" Presumably he was going to talk to them to see just what the deal was with them.

At the begining of the ep he seemed concerned with the fact that they now had only three Gundam's working while the forces against them were getting stronger. Maybe out of desperation he was going to try one last time to get the Trinity on their side so CB would have the best chance at survival. However it didn't quite go as planned since by the time he got there it was already too late and things got worse.

Or maybe better since instead he got to play hero with his Gundam (which is really what he always wanted to do with it in the first place). It's not clear exactly what he thought Michael was trying to do, before he found out it wasn't Michael in Zwei. But he swooped in all heroicly and knocked Ali clear of Nena he was clearly trying to save her. He only kicked him away first too, he didn't break out lethal force til he found out an evil person was in the Gundam. The first time he fought the Trinity's he opened fire before they could even see him, so apparantly he wasn't trying to pull an intervention on them this time.

Note that Setsuna fought the Trinity calmly before only telling them they weren't acting like Gundam's and were shaming the name. Here he's completely frothing mad and disgusted at Ali just being in the thing, nevermind attacking someone with it. Shows Setsuna's opinion on the Trinity in that they aren't exactly high on the list, but people like Ali that thrive on war are much much worse in his eyes.

Either way Nena's down for the count. He's not gonna open fire on a downed target. Unless she attacks him first but in her messed up emotional state he can probably easily restrain her. If my theory is right and Setsuna was really going to ask for help he's not gonna destroy the very last Gundam there as that would have made his whole trip worthless. Of course Drei is the weakest Gundam made so its not gonna be as useful as Enis or Zwei, but its better than leaving the ship vulnerable and then returning empty handed.

Even if that wasn't the plan he's not just gonna leave her there. Like I said Setsuna lives for heroics, and this is his big chance to save someone like he was saved in ep 1.
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Old 2008-03-12, 16:16   Link #587
Slayerx
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I'm rather worried about this "TRANS AM"... i mean, i know the meisters are in desperate need of an upgrade to fight the GN-X's, but this right now looks like WAY too much; give them enough power to defend themselves is one things, but enough power to turn the GN-X's into grunts is just too much... i mean, Ali is a better pilot and couldn't even dream of matching Exia's power; i mean, back when he was in a grunt unit he atleast showed some signs of winning. He got a gundam he turned the tide in his favor, but with TRANS AM, the power gap between him and Setsuna is now larger than ever.

The 3 Nations have only JUST RECENTLY got a taste of victory and started getting the upperhand, and now it looks like their back at square one... That was incredibly short lived... i mean, the least they could have done was wait until the GN-X's were being mass-produced (which they are still working on) and that they had upgraded a few GN-X's for the aces before giving the meisters the power to treat them like insignificant grunts.
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Old 2008-03-12, 16:58   Link #588
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I dunno, if you ask me they 3 powers were starting to get a little too comfortable with being able to own the Gundams. Especially Soma, she's way to eager for a kill now and getting a Trans Am smackdown is exactly what I think she needs.
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Old 2008-03-12, 17:09   Link #589
Trine
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No Trans Am = RIP Setsuna

Trans Am is necessary for the Meisters survival at this point, I think Exia is the only Gundam that will get it too. The Meisters faces have been in the dirt for a long time now so I think it was pretty much required for their continued role in this series, remember they are the only ones in the world that want to stop the escalation of war and do it the right way.

CB was a lost cause before Trans Am was activated, they went from sitting ducks to having a punchers chance. I doubt TAM will be overused from here on out, just when they really need it(outnumbered greatly, about to bite the dust, etc.)
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Old 2008-03-12, 17:22   Link #590
wingdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlayerX
I'm rather worried about this "TRANS AM"... i mean, i know the meisters are in desperate need of an upgrade to fight the GN-X's, but this right now looks like WAY too much;
This was said after the first few eps, but what happened? Eventually the others caught up and were able to plan against the Gundams' skills to a closer degree...

When the Thrones were introduced this was said, but what happened? After their fighting styles lost the element of surprise and were analysed those scary gundams became much less scary..

An I suspect Trans-Am will undergo the same leveling that has been CONSISTENT thru-out this show...

Can't you guys see the pattern here?? Mizushima introduces $hit in Sooopa-Robots fashion then he levels and downgrades the impact once the audience and the in-universe characters become privvy to it...Therefore continually blending the Soopa Robots vs. Real Robots dynamic...
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Old 2008-03-12, 17:25   Link #591
Sir Dearka
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Well, if anyone expected the focus on pilot skills, then they could've felt disappointed. It seems that the show is more oriented on the race for upgrades. Something that really did not do well to Destiny (I mean, mostly in terms of plot value as the kits sold decently).
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Old 2008-03-12, 18:29   Link #592
wingdarkness
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^LOL, the race for upgrades huh? Well if your comparing it to GSD's downfall I'd say the minute Exia gets 5 jet-packs, slicers on it's feet, aimbot, ASS-Swords, grappling-hooks, Beam-boomerangs, Dragoons, Wings of Light, Shining Fingers, Positron-Cannons in it's belly , Bounceback Beam Coating, and Mirage Colloid invisibility during fighting, then I MIGHT agree with you...


Sorry, but I don't see 00 anywhere close to destroying it's entire anime universe with it's upgrades like CE did...As I've just stated it appears Mizushima likes to introduce new elements with a hypeness Soopa-Robos essence and after that he settles it down and portrays them in a more Real-Robos fashion...
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Old 2008-03-12, 20:36   Link #593
Colossa
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From a practical standpoint, the Gundams in 00 actually make sense.

When building a superweapon, layering it with one backup after another seems as a more likely plan than popping out a new Gundam mid-season. As the viewers, because we are not privy to all the design details of the Gundams, we see Trans-Am as an upgrade. From the Celestial Being viewpoint, however, the GN Swords, Full Shield, etc. are pre-planned equipment; the Trans-Am is a built-in failsafe. If the GN Drive is all the technology that can be developed a century ahead, then a Gundam cannot be considered much of a superior suit at all.

The GN Drives are also obviously expensive, not to mention the Gundams themselves. Bandai's objective has always been to trash Gundams in the anime so they can put more model kits out, but trashing Gundams (*cough* pushing self-destruct) is resource-consuming, time-consuming, and logically not a good choice at all. If the suit falls into enemy hands, having a very good security system in the first place is a better idea than obliterating the suit. Thus the biometrics + retina scan + voice activation process of recognition in 00; the problem lies only within how the operation and security systems are all entrusted to Veda.

Perhaps what bugs viewers is how the Meisters are relying constantly on superior technology to obtain victory. However, take into account the experience the pilots are gaining while the ace pilots catch up in technology; Setsuna holds out longer each time he faces Ali (excepting the exhaustion of 15, of course), and this time he is even up against the mercenary as the man pilots a Gundam. Also, relations improving between the Meisters will most likely make way for better teamwork and increased capability of individual action (a la episode 19, formation S32). Looking back to the beginning, when they lacked experience, teamwork, and followed orders to the dot, the state the Meisters are in now is an evolution.

You can still ooze like a puddle of goo at the feet of gods like Graham Aker. Lone stars shine brilliantly, but I think four stars in constellation are just as wonderful.

Earlier this week I was assigned a short story to read that began in the most cliché manner possible; that method of presentation almost ruined my objectivity on the story. Worse yet, the whole story was littered with plotholes and clichés and the people did not seem to act logically. But the themes presented were still poignant and thought-provoking, and some people in the class felt the ideas from the story were deep.

That's the problem with how many viewers are watching Gundam; their eyes are glued to the scenes for plotholes, and consequently they fail to see the actual themes and symbols, lose their objectivity, and complain about the story and characters when they haven't 'read' either properly. Yes, presentation is important—but how can a person pick so terribly at the slightest detail in one series and act ignorant in another?

We all have the ability to suspend disbelief. We all also have the ability to watch indiscriminately and for the sake of entertainment and not argument. Or is it impossible for the next three episodes?
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Old 2008-03-12, 22:57   Link #594
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Great post Colossa, especially this bit:


Quote:
That's the problem with how many viewers are watching Gundam; their eyes are glued to the scenes for plotholes, and consequently they fail to see the actual themes and symbols, lose their objectivity, and complain about the story and characters when they haven't 'read' either properly. Yes, presentation is important—but how can a person pick so terribly at the slightest detail in one series and act ignorant in another?
Hey I just watched the second subbed ep and not much difference than the first, but since this ep didn't stress my comp like the HD RAW with ass-subs I was able to pause it at the very end and like I thought Ali's Zwei seems to be fitted with a huge upgrade or something on it's back, either that or he somehow gets his sword back and it's obstructing my view...Any speculations (Not Spoilers) on what that could be? I might be seeing things, maybe someone else can see if they see what I see...Also it looks like a fair deal of the fight Lockon is fighting in Dynames' normal state verses Ali and he seems to be getting the better of it...Woah, my brain is spinning....
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Old 2008-03-13, 00:51   Link #595
Nvis
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
^LOL, the race for upgrades huh? Well if your comparing it to GSD's downfall I'd say the minute Exia gets 5 jet-packs, slicers on it's feet, aimbot, ASS-Swords, grappling-hooks, Beam-boomerangs, Dragoons, Wings of Light, Shining Fingers, Positron-Cannons in it's belly , Bounceback Beam Coating, and Mirage Colloid invisibility during fighting, then I MIGHT agree with you...


Sorry, but I don't see 00 anywhere close to destroying it's entire anime universe with it's upgrades like CE did...As I've just stated it appears Mizushima likes to introduce new elements with a hypeness Soopa-Robos essence and after that he settles it down and portrays them in a more Real-Robos fashion...
I think it's bad already with the GN-X as upgrades.

It reminded me how weak the Strike (with Kira in it) & possibly Gaia were against some Goufs (red ZAFT uniform grunts) & Zakus.

Anyways this is only 25 episodes. Lots of upgrades could happen in the next part (October)

Remember Freedom didn't show until past episode 30. (and GS/GSD combined = 100-101 episodes)
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Old 2008-03-13, 01:41   Link #596
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Where would the upgrades come from is the question.
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Old 2008-03-13, 04:12   Link #597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post

They knew, that there was a traitor, but they have no idea, that the Thrones and the Ptolemaios are different teams and have fought each other. Nobody gave them this information.
Hmm. Looking back on that episode you're right. There's no confirmation of the information. Sorry 'bout that.
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Old 2008-03-13, 07:53   Link #598
Chase
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Originally Posted by Colossa View Post
From a practical standpoint, the Gundams in 00 actually make sense.

When building a superweapon, layering it with one backup after another seems as a more likely plan than popping out a new Gundam mid-season. As the viewers, because we are not privy to all the design details of the Gundams, we see Trans-Am as an upgrade. From the Celestial Being viewpoint, however, the GN Swords, Full Shield, etc. are pre-planned equipment; the Trans-Am is a built-in failsafe. If the GN Drive is all the technology that can be developed a century ahead, then a Gundam cannot be considered much of a superior suit at all.

The GN Drives are also obviously expensive, not to mention the Gundams themselves. Bandai's objective has always been to trash Gundams in the anime so they can put more model kits out, but trashing Gundams (*cough* pushing self-destruct) is resource-consuming, time-consuming, and logically not a good choice at all. If the suit falls into enemy hands, having a very good security system in the first place is a better idea than obliterating the suit. Thus the biometrics + retina scan + voice activation process of recognition in 00; the problem lies only within how the operation and security systems are all entrusted to Veda.

Perhaps what bugs viewers is how the Meisters are relying constantly on superior technology to obtain victory. However, take into account the experience the pilots are gaining while the ace pilots catch up in technology; Setsuna holds out longer each time he faces Ali (excepting the exhaustion of 15, of course), and this time he is even up against the mercenary as the man pilots a Gundam. Also, relations improving between the Meisters will most likely make way for better teamwork and increased capability of individual action (a la episode 19, formation S32). Looking back to the beginning, when they lacked experience, teamwork, and followed orders to the dot, the state the Meisters are in now is an evolution.

You can still ooze like a puddle of goo at the feet of gods like Graham Aker. Lone stars shine brilliantly, but I think four stars in constellation are just as wonderful.

Earlier this week I was assigned a short story to read that began in the most cliché manner possible; that method of presentation almost ruined my objectivity on the story. Worse yet, the whole story was littered with plotholes and clichés and the people did not seem to act logically. But the themes presented were still poignant and thought-provoking, and some people in the class felt the ideas from the story were deep.

That's the problem with how many viewers are watching Gundam; their eyes are glued to the scenes for plotholes, and consequently they fail to see the actual themes and symbols, lose their objectivity, and complain about the story and characters when they haven't 'read' either properly. Yes, presentation is important—but how can a person pick so terribly at the slightest detail in one series and act ignorant in another?

We all have the ability to suspend disbelief. We all also have the ability to watch indiscriminately and for the sake of entertainment and not argument. Or is it impossible for the next three episodes?
Excellent post
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Old 2008-03-13, 08:04   Link #599
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Excellent post
I second that! Now, i'm a little lost about 00's plot so... i'm rewatching the episodes from 1 till 19. That's right, i'm watching Menclave's subs...
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Old 2008-03-13, 08:12   Link #600
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Originally Posted by Obi-Wan View Post
This show is more horrible than AIDS, and anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't watched enough Gundam.
The irony,as he says this with a picture of Kira Yamato

On another note,Kyrios has been sorely missed as of recently
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