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View Poll Results: Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 22 Rating
Perfect 10 29 29.00%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 30 30.00%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 25 25.00%
7 out of 10 : Good 11 11.00%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 1.00%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 2 2.00%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 2.00%
Voters: 100. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-03-14, 16:46   Link #121
Darknemo2000
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I am not flip-flopping, I am saying that they suck but with shana so far they did a good job, so we should wait for it to end to make final conclusions.

Besides even crappy ending will not make it an ZnT II because this series was not so bad even during the first Konoe arc.

maybe I got carried away explaining why they DO suck as a studio (or at least cannot be proud of their work so far), but I also said that they do make decent animes as well and Shana II will not be their worst series thats for sure (over that title can fight ZnT II, Kimikiss and few others), so we should wait for the ending.
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Old 2008-03-14, 16:53   Link #122
cnnydz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeotoxSlayer View Post
Wait why the hell does Hecate Leave the Reiji Maigo after going through the trouble to steal in from Yuji in the first place...
that's why i am confused, because the bal masque didn't need to extract or steal it in the first place.
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Old 2008-03-14, 19:09   Link #123
Malintex_Terek
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Originally Posted by minhtam2448 View Post
I agree on this statement, since in all honesty, what J.C. Staff production was quality before the release of Shana? My comment however was directed to the flip-floppity or the seemingness of the flip-floppity to the comment I hath quoted.
Like most anime studios, JC Staff had a better reputation for quality in the past - Excel Saga, Azumanga Daioh, and Slayers to name a few. When it comes to non-manga adaptions (the recent fad of anime co.s), though, the studio tends to do rather poorly - I'm sure everyone's heard of how they were contracted to do a Tsukihime anime but the unfinished product was so bad it never went to TV*. Shana I and Zero I were fantastic by their (and other studio's) standards, though there was considerable deviation from the novels and such. But the changes weren't so abysmally bad that people denounced the shows as trash.


*Note: This is a joke.
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Old 2008-03-14, 20:54   Link #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek View Post
Like most anime studios, JC Staff had a better reputation for quality in the past - Excel Saga, Azumanga Daioh, and Slayers to name a few. When it comes to non-manga adaptions (the recent fad of anime co.s), though, the studio tends to do rather poorly - I'm sure everyone's heard of how they were contracted to do a Tsukihime anime but the unfinished product was so bad it never went to TV*. Shana I and Zero I were fantastic by their (and other studio's) standards, though there was considerable deviation from the novels and such. But the changes weren't so abysmally bad that people denounced the shows as trash.


*Note: This is a joke.
Any anime studio with Excel Saga, Azumanga Daioh, Slayers, and Shakugan no Shana, to its name, is a pretty dang good studio, and most certainly does not suck, in my opinion. Those are four high quality animes, overall, and represent impressive range (from pure comedy/parody/spoof to slice of life to fantasy action to whatever you would classify Shana has).
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Old 2008-03-14, 21:02   Link #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
I am not flip-flopping, I am saying that they suck but with shana so far they did a good job, so we should wait for it to end to make final conclusions.

Besides even crappy ending will not make it an ZnT II because this series was not so bad even during the first Konoe arc.

maybe I got carried away explaining why they DO suck as a studio (or at least cannot be proud of their work so far), but I also said that they do make decent animes as well and Shana II will not be their worst series thats for sure (over that title can fight ZnT II, Kimikiss and few others), so we should wait for the ending.
great, now I am being flipfloppity. But there was ambiguity within your previous post. Hence I probably used the wrong word.
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Old 2008-03-14, 22:56   Link #126
X207
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just out of curiosity. i hav a question about yuji's mindset in battle after seeing how sabrac was defeated. it also does apply to other flamehaze but yuji is a bit different imo. in the various battles they destroy alot of territory and there is presumable frozen ppl in those areas. do they see the sacrifice as nessesary or are they looking at it from the point of view to minimise ciovlian casualties?
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Old 2008-03-14, 23:03   Link #127
teachopvutru
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Originally Posted by X207 View Post
just out of curiosity. i hav a question about yuji's mindset in battle after seeing how sabrac was defeated. it also does apply to other flamehaze but yuji is a bit different imo. in the various battles they destroy alot of territory and there is presumable frozen ppl in those areas. do they see the sacrifice as nessesary or are they looking at it from the point of view to minimise ciovlian casualties?
As long as these people's PoE aren't getting eaten up, any extend of casuality can be restored if the seal hasn't been broken before the restoration. Okay, I'm not sure about "any extend" part, but those people won't be turned into Torch even if they are burned into ashes; that's how Ogata still is alive, anyway.
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Old 2008-03-14, 23:06   Link #128
Dark Wing
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Originally Posted by X207 View Post
do they see the sacrifice as nessesary or are they looking at it from the point of view to minimise ciovlian casualties?
I believe it's more the first. Remember how Shana acted during season one when she first met Yuuji. How she talked so casually about the torches disappearing from existence...Yea they all kind of have the same mindset.
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Old 2008-03-14, 23:24   Link #129
ashlay
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Originally Posted by cnnydz View Post
that's why i am confused, because the bal masque didn't need to extract or steal it in the first place.
maybe the Konoe Fumina in her won't let her leave?

or maybe they just need to do whatever they're doing at that spot, and Yuji isn't seen as a particular threat to the plans? (still wouldn't explain why she took it out >_>)
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Old 2008-03-15, 00:09   Link #130
Darknemo2000
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Quote:
Any anime studio with Excel Saga, Azumanga Daioh, Slayers, and Shakugan no Shana, to its name, is a pretty dang good studio, and most certainly does not suck, in my opinion. Those are four high quality animes, overall, and represent impressive range (from pure comedy/parody/spoof to slice of life to fantasy action to whatever you would classify Shana has).
Yet, you always need to keep the production quality.

These are just few many of the tittles they did.

Thos were good by your usual anime studios standarts but there were quite a few trash tittles as well.

Recently, their work really dropped in terms of quality, or are you going to say that ZnT II was a masterpiece or that Kimikiss was financial success (it is pretty easy to say even without the last episode how "great" it is and will be doing in the future)?

Shakugan No Shana and Zero No Tsukaima made them famous but thair recent string of failures makes them more and more famous in negative sense of the word.

I mean a studio who manages to screw up Kimikiss game's popularity must have same serious talent on screwing up. Even on the summer there was a great anticipation of the project and quite many believed that this could be their financially best title (better than Shana or zero).

But after really bad ZnT II they also somehow managed to screw things up with Kimikiss as well (I guess changing shounen romance into josei drama doesn't work).

Now they are making some negative reputation.

Shakugan no Shana II is doing fairly well, so at least this tittle seems like successful and even without the end it is still much better than ZnT II nor does it has ridiculous experiments with the genre (Kimikiss).

Thats why they do suck, even if they had some great tittles they also have an impressive list of non-successful trash tittles, or, recently, even plain bad failures that should have been great success (ZnT II, Kimikiss).

Yet, with Shana even if second season isnt as good as the first, it is pretty fairly done and if they do not seriously screw things up with the ending they will get a pretty successful continuation of the first season.

In case of Shana we really should wait with our conclusions, but all and all - J.C Stuff is a rather sucky studio.

And as in case of many other anime you have to wonder what if KyoAni would have been doing their tittles. Though i guess it is not fair as KyoAni is on completely different level than J.C Staff...

Well we have what we have, and in SnS II it is doing pretty well so lets wait with the complaining until it ends.
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Old 2008-03-15, 02:13   Link #131
Irenicus
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LOL @ the negativity of this thread. Anime fans, serious people.

Also, no offense, Darknemo2000, but it seems as if you're just carrying your anti-Kimikiss anime agenda to the Shana thread. That doesn't make your posts particularly trustworthy to be very frank.

Not to mention your point is confused: "J.C. Staff has some great titles, but they still suck." How am I supposed to buy that? It doesn't make logical sense whatsoever.

P.S. I'm also officially sick of the "If only KyoAni has done this" sentiment. To be utterly straight, that's dumb.
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Old 2008-03-15, 02:30   Link #132
Darknemo2000
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It can happen. A few great titles doesn't make you great studio when you have a great bunch of failures as well, specially when the number of failures keep on increasing.

And I have forgotten about Kimikiss - stopped watching the crap after 4th episode and now only follow the sales rate which, you cannot object, is rather low, specially for such a game hit as Kimikiss...

So it is not anti-kimikiss, if anything the series that really turned me off were not Kimikiss but rather ZnT II.

But even without those latest titles J.C. Staff still has a solid amount of failures at their feet which makes them only mediocre at best.

They sometimes are capable of hitting the mark, but again when you make so much stuff as they do you just have to hit the mark from time to time.
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Old 2008-03-15, 04:23   Link #133
Malintex_Terek
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Any anime studio with Excel Saga, Azumanga Daioh, Slayers, and Shakugan no Shana, to its name, is a pretty dang good studio, and most certainly does not suck, in my opinion.
You shouldn't just stereotype a studio as good just because they can claim to have ownership over certain titles, it's the staff that matter. Gainax's Gurren-Lagann would have been nothing had it not had a fantastic staff, most of which consisted of free-lancers in the writing/art direction department.

Sunrise has produced nothing but trash with the sole exception of Planetes since GaoGaiGar in 1997, following the split of its studio and the departure of its best staff to BONES.

Studio Madhouse, the company that animated Akagi and Kaiji, also churned out garbage like Kaibutsu Oujo and Maple Story. The budgets were similar (shockingly) for all four titles, but the clear defining feature was the quality of staff and use of that budget.
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Old 2008-03-15, 07:20   Link #134
Owaranai Destiny
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The negativity I find here sounds surprisingly similar to one of the habits some Japanese have, and that is Age Tsurau (Finding Endless Fault). I only hope this argument doesn't go all the way off-track to talk about J.C Animation when this is supposed to be about Episode 22 for Shakugan no Shana Season II, no matter how "trashy" one thinks the studio is.

EDIT: While I'm not for the continual presence of bashing of the studio here, that doesn't mean I'm unaware of the faults they make, so let those who are confident they can do a better job say what should be.

And I'm quite surprised at Darknemo2000's pessimism. The forums here (at least) consider Kimikiss to be a pretty good story on the whole.

Now, back on topic. I've noticed a few screenies with Ike and Kazumi in one of them. Sounds pretty much like the first OP, an appearance of Sabrac and Hecate taking Reiji Maigo out of Yuuji. Sounds pretty interesting.
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Old 2008-03-15, 08:34   Link #135
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Owaranai Destiny, its not the pessimism about Kimikiss it is the truth.

But it is not so badly received in here, but the main market is japan and in japan is it is VERY badly received. Why? Well, obviously, one reason is the game itself. Poeple here never played the game so the differences do not seem so offending, while in Japan the game is very popular thus has many fans, and as a result such huge changes in Kimikiss (both genre and character wise) is not met well.

Thats why financially it is a failure. A total crap. Specially since before airing there was a huge hype about the Kimikiss and everyone expected it to be even greater success than Zero No Tsukaima (first season of course) and Shakugan No Shana, because it was the most initially popular title that J.C Staff got so far (even Shana or ZnT wasn't as popular as Kimikiss initially was/is).

Thats why this so called "pessimism" about it. It is because it is very badly received in japan. I admit that here it is not so bad, but in Japan it is, and thats where the main market lies.

Besides you have to remember that western world tastes are different so what is good in japan might be pretty bad here, and what is bad here migh be good in Japan. Anime is also similar. You can't just bring a successful in Japan title and hope it to be a success here, sometimes it leads to failures.

As far as Kimikiss goes - in japan it is a total failure because (no matter how weird it sounds) it has a lots of fans.




But again we should be talking about Shana here anyway.


And weirdly, my initial intent was to ask people stop complaining about JC Staff because though they produces a lot of crap Shakugan is one of those tittles where they seem top be doing pretty well, so we should wait until the end before starting complaining.
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Old 2008-03-15, 10:11   Link #136
pikuchan
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Yeah, last time I checked, Kimikiss vol 3 only sold about 1500 copies. It's kinda sad to see a show as good as Kimikiss sell that bad...

Now, as for Shana, I'd say the show actually doing pretty well right now and we should reserve our judgement until the show actually end.
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Old 2008-03-15, 10:22   Link #137
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Comrades, do you HATE Yoshida Kazumi?
If you do, come down to the Anime's Most Frustrating & Annoying Characters Thread in General Anime

Let the whole world know how annoying Yoshida Kazumi really is.
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Old 2008-03-15, 11:27   Link #138
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@ Darknemo2000: Sounds reasonable. The way I see it, it's all about finding fault with every single thing they don't find 'perfect' in their own sense. I suppose anyone a little too critical or expectant of how something should turn out would be extremely disappointed when they don't get what they want. IMO, it's silly, but that's the way things work, I suppose...With Kimikiss, and with lots of people flaming J.C Animation specifically for the fact that they have practically screwed up everything for Shakugan no Shana.

Anyway, I gotta play this game sometime, else I'll never understand how the irked fans feel.

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Originally Posted by vorpal83 View Post
Comrades, do you HATE Yoshida Kazumi?
If you do, come down to the Anime's Most Frustrating & Annoying Characters Thread in General Anime

Let the whole world know how annoying Yoshida Kazumi really is.
Now that's what I'm talking about. Keep the crap out of here and into another "dump". Although I don't particularly hate Kazumi, thanks for the heads-up, vorpal83. At least there will be less trash in here.
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Old 2008-03-15, 12:43   Link #139
X207
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As long as these people's PoE aren't getting eaten up, any extend of casuality can be restored if the seal hasn't been broken before the restoration. Okay, I'm not sure about "any extend" part, but those people won't be turned into Torch even if they are burned into ashes; that's how Ogata still is alive, anyway.
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I believe it's more the first. Remember how Shana acted during season one when she first met Yuuji. How she talked so casually about the torches disappearing from existence...Yea they all kind of have the same mindset.
ty both of you. after reading those posts i still cant come to a concrete conclusion. when the doll pedo in se1 bust into the classroom. shana wanted to use the annoying blond's POE bc she was 1/2 dead. but then ogata in flames coming back healthy or was she also half dead back then?? can a physically destroyed body in a fuzetsu also damage the life force? that having been asked, i shall avoid this thread until the subs come out.
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Old 2008-03-15, 14:14   Link #140
teachopvutru
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Originally Posted by X207 View Post
ty both of you. after reading those posts i still cant come to a concrete conclusion. when the doll pedo in se1 bust into the classroom. shana wanted to use the annoying blond's POE bc she was 1/2 dead. but then ogata in flames coming back healthy or was she also half dead back then?? can a physically destroyed body in a fuzetsu also damage the life force? that having been asked, i shall avoid this thread until the subs come out.
If you dispel the Fuzetsu without doing any restoration, then yes, people with severe injuries will die. That's why in the first season, the most logical conclusion Shana came up with was to use the half dead person as a source of PoE to fix everything until Yuji offered his PoE, since Shana didn't have another source of PoE available. PoE is required to restore stuffs in the Fuzetsu, everything including broken buildings, injuries, etc. As for Ogata's case, I believed Yuji's PoE was also used since he got a heck lot of it.

P.S: I'm guilty, too, but this should go to Q&A thread...


On the other hand, Ike's confession has finally come but people are more shocked about how this episode ends that they forgets about one of the most anticipated moments since this season started, eh?
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