AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > General Anime

Notices

View Poll Results: Hardsub or softsub?
Hardsub. I prefer my fancy karaokes. 9 37.50%
Softsub. I want the option to be able to turn them off. 10 41.67%
I don't care. 5 20.83%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-03-18, 17:22   Link #1
Daiz
Pioneer in Fansub 2.0
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Opinions on karaoke in fansubs

Fancy karaoke is still very popular these days. Many otherwise softsubbed releases have hardsubbed karaoke in order to have advanced effects that couldn't be achieved with softsubs alone.

While some people surely like fancy karaoke, I belong to the group who doesn't really appreciate karaoke effects. Sure, having fading and blinking letters to go with the music can be considered "cool", but honestly speaking, I don't see the need for eye-candy effects when the OP/ED is already supposed to be eye-candy itself. In fact, hardsubbed karaoke can become quite an annoyance when it's constantly taking up screen space from the actual animation and you can't turn it off. This is the reason I would rather have simpler softsubbed karaoke (translation + romaji [+ kanji], no blinking letters necessary) that I could turn off if I wanted to view the animation itself.

This leads me to my question, what's your opinion on karaoke, karaoke effects, what kind of karaoke would you like to see in fansubs, etc? I'm interested in knowing what other people think about this, since I generally seem to belong to the minority in this subject.
__________________
"A good user is remembered from his posts, not from his 160px tall animated 'pink flying unicorns' signature picture."
---
The Guide for best H.264 playback
Daiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-03-18, 17:38   Link #2
Grv
宜しく
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 30
My opinion is that karaoke is one way for fansubbers to actually have some fun. When it comes to the rest of a release people expect an accurately translated, readable dialogue - no fun to be had there.
__________________
Yoroshiku Fansubs: Website | Twitter | IRC
Grv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-03-18, 18:16   Link #3
jfs
Aegisub dev
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Age: 30
There's already been a thread like this at least once before... but I can't bother to dig it up.

I think I can claim a (more or less direct) influence on many of the karaoke effects made today, but I won't let that get into the way of my argument.

I like watching a well-made karaoke effect, and I find it fun developing my own, as well as developing tools to enable making even more advanced effects.
On the other hand, I hate badly done karaoke effects, whether that means something as trivial as bad timing, bad choice of colours or fonts, or maybe a generally bad/annoying design of the effect. I forgot which group it was, but I remember a karaoke effect for the My-HiME OP that in my eyes simply killed the opening... I found the raws much more watchable during the opening only because of it not having karaoke. That effect was what I'd call "visual pollution".
__________________

Aegisub developer [ Forum | Manual | Feature requests | Bug reports | IRC ]
Don't ask for: More VSFilter changes (I won't), karaoke effects, help in PM's
jfs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-03-18, 18:56   Link #4
martino
makes no files now
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Personally I have nothing against no karaoke effects, whether be it \k, \kf or just Triad-style. As long as the lyrics, translations and kana (although I sometimes wonder why I like to see it there) are present, I'm happy. However what I don't like is when someone tries to do the effects, and it ends up looking horrible, although this can be subject to personal preference too. So if you are trying, at least make it look nice.
__________________
"Light and shadow don't battle each other, because they're two sides of the same coin"

Last edited by martino; 2008-03-18 at 19:40. Reason: grammar mistake
martino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-03-18, 19:37   Link #5
Ichihara Asako
Horoist
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
I don't care. Completely indifferent. I almost never watch OPs and EDs. IF I let them run, it'll be to listen to the music while I go grab a drink or something before the show starts. What groups do in the OP is of no concern to me.
Ichihara Asako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-03-18, 21:02   Link #6
Access
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
I think it's awful and should be stopped. Every time there is karaoke he thinks it's some kind of invitation to sing along, and believe me, he doesn't sing well at all. I used to be able to show digisubs at club meets without worry but now people wonder why the room clears out around a minute before the OP or ED is about to be shown. No one has the heart to tell the poor guy his voice is awful and he imagines himself as some future opera star or something similar. I feel like the concert in Clannad where they had to warn the audience 'sit toward the back and be ready to run at any moment'. So please cut it out with the karaoke I don't know how much longer I can handle that guy with his awful voice much longer.
Access is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-03-18, 22:18   Link #7
D404
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
To each his own.

Maybe some middle ground here... ordered chapters anyone?
D404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-03-18, 22:27   Link #8
KholdStare
ISML Technical Staff
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 25
Send a message via AIM to KholdStare Send a message via MSN to KholdStare
I don't really care about the flashy karaoke, but I do appreciate the OP and ED being translated, even if it's in normal text. However, some songs have very noticeable and incredible karaoke (Ayako's Minami-ke karaoke was really wow!) and some songs are catchy enough that I usually sing along. That doesn't mean the karaoke has to be overdone though.
KholdStare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-03-18, 22:50   Link #9
Bot1
The Supreme Pontiff
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
i do like having karaoke in the release but i prefer a simple softsubbed karaoke
__________________

AKA Malakith
Bot1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-03-18, 23:14   Link #10
Daiz
Pioneer in Fansub 2.0
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by D404 View Post
ordered chapters anyone?
I'd love this. I don't really mind how flashy karaoke is as long as I can turn it off if I want (unless the effects are literally BAD and make my eyes bleed), but unfortunately this would require fansubbers to actually use ordered chapters...
__________________
"A good user is remembered from his posts, not from his 160px tall animated 'pink flying unicorns' signature picture."
---
The Guide for best H.264 playback
Daiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-03-19, 00:51   Link #11
Zaris
of Porsche
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pasadena, California
Age: 30
Send a message via AIM to Zaris Send a message via MSN to Zaris Send a message via Yahoo to Zaris
I don't have a problem viewing karaoke during the OP/ED, but it becomes quite intrusive in my opinion when text becomes a dominating or distracting presence on the screen. Font size should remain small throughout the piece with a minimum of eye candy and effects, and OPs and EDs are no exceptions. The focus has to remain on the anime.
__________________
Insert Ambiguous Statement Here
Zaris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-03-19, 03:02   Link #12
Xabin
Careless
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 32
Send a message via MSN to Xabin
I like kodaoke
Xabin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-03-19, 03:08   Link #13
cyth
ふひひ
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 28
Every now and then someone comes here to complain how the world doesn't revolve around them. As much as it baffles me, a lot of people like their karaoke subtitles to be included. Karaoke subtitles are part of the digisub culture and they are most likely not going away, sorry.
__________________
cyth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-03-19, 03:41   Link #14
DragoonKain3
Osana-Najimi Shipper
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mt. Ordeals
Personally, I could care less. As long as the english translation is available (so that I actually have a clue on what is being sung), whether there is karaoke or not wouldn't bother me at all. It's not as if I sing the song out loud then. While it's true it's pretty to look at, I wouldn't miss it if it wasn't there at all.

Then again, I sometimes find myself unconsciously singing an anime song whenever I'm deep in thought or busy doing something. And almost always, it would be the last one anime I saw beforehand, and times it occurs rises incredibly if the OP/ED had karaoke. So if you want less guys like me singing an anime song out of nowhere, remove the karaoke.
__________________

Yes its YOU childhood friend - source of BERZERKER RAGE since forever
Childhood Friend couple STATISTICS(spoilers abound though)
DragoonKain3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-03-19, 03:42   Link #15
Daiz
Pioneer in Fansub 2.0
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Hey Toua, I didn't say that I completely and utterly dislike karaoke or that it should go away. In fact, I like having the romaji and translated lyrics (kanji is fine too). I said this in the first post too. The main problem I have is that most of the time the only choice is hardsubbed karaoke, so there's no way to turn the karaoke off. If I like the OP/ED of some show enough to actually watch it more than once, I usually end up wanting to turn the karaoke off at some point.

This could be solved in two ways:

1. Softsubbing the karaoke, which would result in less-flashy karaoke effects, since you can't just use the fanciest effects with softsubs in any reasonable way. I would be perfectly fine with this, and it would work under every platform too.

2. Using ordered chapters and editions to provide hardsubbed and non-subbed (or softsubbed) OPs/EDs and let user choose between them. This would be most likely the best solution, since this way people making karaoke wouldn't have to make compromises and people who want could turn karaoke off, but unfortunately only Haali Media Splitter does ordered chapters properly enough, so this would currently only work under DirectShow in Windows.
__________________
"A good user is remembered from his posts, not from his 160px tall animated 'pink flying unicorns' signature picture."
---
The Guide for best H.264 playback
Daiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-03-19, 03:50   Link #16
martino
makes no files now
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daiz View Post
1. Softsubbing the karaoke, which would result in less-flashy karaoke effects, since you can't just use the fanciest effects with softsubs in any reasonable way. I would be perfectly fine with this, and it would work under every platform too.
Unfortunately you can barely use even simple effects softsubbed when VSFilter is rendering. And don't forget, not everyone is running on a strong system...
__________________
"Light and shadow don't battle each other, because they're two sides of the same coin"
martino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-03-19, 04:03   Link #17
Daiz
Pioneer in Fansub 2.0
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
martino, I know. Personally I don't even have a very strong system, but on the other hand, I would be very much satisfied with even the simplest karaoke (think Triad style, except softsubbed).

In any way, ordered chapters + editions would pretty much be the ideal solution if they just could be used properly on every platform.
__________________
"A good user is remembered from his posts, not from his 160px tall animated 'pink flying unicorns' signature picture."
---
The Guide for best H.264 playback
Daiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-03-19, 05:38   Link #18
False Dawn
Florsheim Monster
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Access View Post
I think it's awful and should be stopped. Every time there is karaoke he thinks it's some kind of invitation to sing along, and believe me, he doesn't sing well at all. I used to be able to show digisubs at club meets without worry but now people wonder why the room clears out around a minute before the OP or ED is about to be shown. No one has the heart to tell the poor guy his voice is awful and he imagines himself as some future opera star or something similar. I feel like the concert in Clannad where they had to warn the audience 'sit toward the back and be ready to run at any moment'. So please cut it out with the karaoke I don't know how much longer I can handle that guy with his awful voice much longer.

I thought for a second that you were referring to yourself in third person


Quote:
1. Softsubbing the karaoke, which would result in less-flashy karaoke effects, since you can't just use the fanciest effects with softsubs in any reasonable way. I would be perfectly fine with this, and it would work under every platform too.

Unfortunately, a pipe dream - while I'd love to see the day when everything in an episode is softsubbed (typesetting + kara included), the only way I can see of doing it is a program that'll support multiple subtitle tracks playing at once. Well, and linked mkvs, I guess, though that would be a CPU drainer, I'd imagine, as well as being prone to errors.

So yeah, maybe there'll be a choice one day, but at the moment, we're stuck with what each group decides for karaoke. Personally, I don't mind the flashy stuff, as long as it doesn't involve syllables disappearing as soon as they're sung because that just defeats the whole purpose of karaoke, doesn't it?
False Dawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-03-19, 07:03   Link #19
SeijiSensei
AS Oji-kun
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mucking about
Age: 64
I've sometimes thought it would be nice to have the occasional clean OP and ED, maybe once every four or five episodes, just to see it without the clutter of karaoke and subber credits. I know if I care enough I can watch a raw, as I did with Bartender, but it would be nice to see a raw OP/ED from time to time in a subbed show as well.
__________________
SeijiSensei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-03-19, 10:27   Link #20
Bot1
The Supreme Pontiff
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by False Dawn View Post
So yeah, maybe there'll be a choice one day, but at the moment, we're stuck with what each group decides for karaoke. Personally, I don't mind the flashy stuff, as long as it doesn't involve syllables disappearing as soon as they're sung because that just defeats the whole purpose of karaoke, doesn't it?
i don't get this. why do you want multiple subtitle tracks playing at the same time?
__________________

AKA Malakith
Bot1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fansubbing, karaoke

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 17:40.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.