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View Poll Results: Hard Work vs Talent
Hard Work 79 65.29%
Talent 42 34.71%
Voters: 121. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-03-30, 21:15   Link #61
ESC
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If the talented person is slacking off, the hard worker will definitely achieve his/her goal. If both talented and non-talented are hard workers, then the result will be most likely be favorable to the talented individual.

IMHO.
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Old 2008-03-30, 21:36   Link #62
Whitemoon648
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Originally Posted by ESC View Post
If the talented person is slacking off, the hard worker will definitely achieve his/her goal. If both talented and non-talented are hard workers, then the result will be most likely be favorable to the talented individual.

IMHO.
If a person is already talented in an area Vs a person that isnt talented in that area, ( if the same amount of work is done) then the Talented person wins.

Thats because The talented person, has already worked hard to obtain that talent.



If I am 15 and talented, i will win against another person that is 15 and not talented in the area which we are competing. The only reason i win is that because I have been working on that subject for 15 years and obtain the talent, and the other person hasnt . I have an advantage over the other person,. Even if we both put the same amount of work in that area after we are 15.


A more clear example is that, If 2 people are taking Calc 2, One got an A in Calc1 and the other person got a C in Calc1, Then even if they both work as hard as each other in Calc2, The person with the A in calc 1 Will still get a better grade than the person with a C in Calc1.



P.S. If One cant undrestand what i wrote, then one is not talented enough to read my IMBA posts .
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Old 2008-03-30, 21:50   Link #63
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Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
Thats because The talented person, has already worked hard to obtain that talent.
The two types(?) of talents that I can define is one where you are naturally gifted with genetics or two you gain the talent through hard work. If you look at a Labrador dog, the dog is very talented at swimming. A different breed of dog can swim too but the Labrador will win a race in swimming if both dogs have put the same effort in training. However, if the non-Labrador breed has swam and put hard efforts to swimming then that dog can overcome the Labrador breed.

Some are more talented since they were born, and the only way to overcome those individuals is to work hard.
So imo, there are talents that you are born with. Everyone has talents, just different.

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Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
If I am 15 and talented, i will win against another person that is 15 and not talented in the area which we are competing. The only reason i win is that because I have been working on that subject for 15 years and obtain the talent, and the other person hasnt . I have an advantage over the other person,. Even if we both put the same amount of work in that area after we are 15.
That can also be false because then you are saying if both individuals work on the same field of the subject for 15 years, then they should both get the same marks. That can be true but in that case, whoever is more gifted in the subject will win.
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Old 2008-03-30, 21:57   Link #64
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Isn't talent merely a tool that makes hard work easier?
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Old 2008-03-30, 22:01   Link #65
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Isn't talent merely a tool that makes hard work easier?
Thats somewhat my opinion as well. I honestly do not think anyone can just become Einstein through hard work. If George Bush and Einstein went through the same life style, well I dont think the results will be the same.
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Old 2008-03-30, 22:04   Link #66
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Originally Posted by ESC View Post
The two types(?) of talents that I can define is one where you are naturally gifted with genetics or two you gain the talent through hard work. If you look at a Labrador dog, the dog is very talented at swimming. A different breed of dog can swim too but the Labrador will win a race in swimming if both dogs have put the same effort in training. However, if the non-Labrador breed has swam and put hard efforts to swimming then that dog can overcome the Labrador breed.

Some are more talented since they were born, and the only way to overcome those individuals is to work hard.
So imo, there are talents that you are born with. Everyone has talents, just different.



That can also be false because then you are saying if both individuals work on the same field of the subject for 15 years, then they should both get the same marks. That can be true but in that case, whoever is more gifted in the subject will win.
Its an open argument. I am not going to argue more than that. Simply Some belive in it and some dont. I Dont belive in natural born talent.

However i do belive in being born with higher or lower IQ. And using that IQ one can obtain talents through hardwork.

You are not born with talent. However You are born with diffrent IQ levels. And how you use your IQ and intellegence determines how much talent you have.


So No I dont belive people are born with talent itself. But people can Bring out their potentials with hardwork.

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Originally Posted by ESC View Post
Thats somewhat my opinion as well. I honestly do not think anyone can just become Einstein through hard work. If George Bush and Einstein went through the same life style, well I dont think the results will be the same.
If people think they cant, then they cant. But people who think they can, They can.

By saying " I honestly do not think anyone can just become Einstein through hard work" , is just admitting defeat before you even start ( i am talking in a general sense here *_* ).

Yes Any one can become an Einstein through hard work. But you have to realize what that hardwork mean. It means If you want to get a Noble prize in chemistry ( just an example) You have to eat chemistry ( Figure of speech), walk chemistry, sleep chemistry and .... . Your whole life has to be chemistry and then yes you can.


Becoming like Einestein requires one to cut back on anime, dates, movies, games and ... . So yeah , through hardwork anything is possible. And people themselves decide if that is worth the effort or not.
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Old 2008-03-30, 23:40   Link #67
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No, to become like Einstein, you need both hardwork and talent. With just either hardwork or talent will just make you a normal scientist.

Talent do not refer to just IQ. It is also your mentality, senses, physical condition among others.
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Old 2008-03-30, 23:45   Link #68
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Talent and hard work are more related than most think.

Talent can be achieved through hard work. Talent helps hard work. If your hard work stirrs up no talent, your working wrong. You don't stop once you have talent, you keep working hard to improve it.

Why are we pitting hard work and talent against each other?
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Old 2008-03-31, 01:42   Link #69
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Either way, I lose because I have neither.

Hard work is something that's possible for anyone to have attributed to them, though a lot of people don't due to their lower motivations (like me.)
Talent is something that's innate, and having it will probably lessen the "hard" in "hard work" if you talent applies to that.

That being said, I would personally say that someone who was born able to play the oboe (maybe it's in their genes) will probably progress faster than someone whose family is not musically oriented, and their parents don't particularly push them towards learning the oboe, even if person B works harder than person A.

Oh, there are some things in which talent is much, much more important than hard work, too. (I've just thought of one of my talents, too.)
I could easily eat 5 full meals a day and not gain weight, then fast for a whole day and have no averse effects. I doubt that such magical eating and digestion habits can be easily learned.
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Old 2008-03-31, 05:36   Link #70
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Originally Posted by FateAnomaly View Post
No, to become like Einstein, you need both hardwork and talent. With just either hardwork or talent will just make you a normal scientist.

Talent do not refer to just IQ. It is also your mentality, senses, physical condition among others.
Edison had the worse grades and was called stupid by many of his teachers. Woah he must have had so much talent to be one of the biggest and most famous inventor and discoverer of all time .

yes i am being saracastic here if you havent caught on. No he wasnt born with talent( because you Are not born with it). If he had talent then how come he failed all of his classes? Through His hardwork ( not his born Talent) we have electricity now. There are many other examples like that. Talent is cultivated and is grown after you are born. You are not born with it.


And why are you confusing all of these? talent doesnt refer to IQ. Talent is your aptitude in a specefic thing/task, IQ is the measurement of your intellegence, Mentality is your psychology, Senses are your senses ( , Not talent really) and physical condition , I have no idea what you mean. But if you meant things like height and ... then that would be your physical appearances and attributes which are not talents . So you are confusing all of these . They are not the same things.
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Old 2008-03-31, 06:43   Link #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagedanji View Post
Talent and hard work are more related than most think.

Talent can be achieved through hard work. Talent helps hard work. If your hard work stirrs up no talent, your working wrong. You don't stop once you have talent, you keep working hard to improve it.

Why are we pitting hard work and talent against each other?
I largely agree. However, some talents can't be achieved through hard work, and are largely/entirely gifts that we are born with.

I used to tutor high school students, and one distinct difference that I would encounter between different students was their capacity to grasp and apply math.

Some of the students I taught simply didn't get math - a phrase I commonly heard was "With math, you either get it, or you don't". I think that there's at least some truth to that, as I would frequently try hours to convey a good understanding of a particular mathematical system to a student that was genuinely trying to understand... and he or she would just not get it.

Now, if you're already good at math, than practicing a lot with math problems and applying math a great deal in daily living and/or in what you do as a career, will make you even better at math, I think. However, if you're not good (or at least Ok) at math in the first place, there really is a strict upper limit on how good you can get at math, going by my own personal tutoring experience and what I've heard many former classmates in Math class say to me.

Some talents are like being good at math, I think - it depends, at least to some degree, with the abilities and gifts that you're born with.
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Old 2008-03-31, 15:30   Link #72
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Hard work is nice and all but, I honestly think that pure talent trumps it. People who have a knack for a certain something are not only good at it but are compelled to do it and enjoy it whereas those who only work through hard work are at a distinct disadvantage in those respects.
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Old 2008-03-31, 15:58   Link #73
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Originally Posted by IHaveCrayons View Post
Hard work is nice and all but, I honestly think that pure talent trumps it. People who have a knack for a certain something are not only good at it but are compelled to do it and enjoy it whereas those who only work through hard work are at a distinct disadvantage in those respects.
I agree with you in most parts, except the part about Pure talent triumphs.

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Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
Talent and hardwork can be the same . If you try your hard at something then you will become talented in that area ,if you love to work in that area. Its as simple as that.

So hardwork + True love of the task + Calmness( Not pressuring yourself one bit about wanting/desiring/or having to be the best at it) = talent . So purely Doing it because you want and enjoy it. Nothing else.

So If you try really hard at something you dont like/love then the chances are high that it wont become one of your talents.


Talent is something you Obtain, You are not born with it.
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Old 2008-03-31, 16:33   Link #74
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Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
I agree with you in most parts, except the part about Pure talent triumphs.
Basically what you are saying is that f someone works hard they can become th enext Michael Jordan and the only reason there is no next michael jordan is because the current crop of NBA players don't work hard enough.
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Old 2008-03-31, 17:10   Link #75
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Lol, the argument doesnt look like it will cease. Lets try to keep it as opinion based and try to accept and understand each other's beliefs. I think its fine to believe that talent is obtained through hard work and I also think its fine to believe that talent is gained since birth.
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Old 2008-03-31, 17:38   Link #76
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Basically what you are saying is that f someone works hard they can become th enext Michael Jordan and the only reason there is no next michael jordan is because the current crop of NBA players don't work hard enough.
No. not every one can. But talent has nothing to do with it. Other factors do. Like One's height is not one's talent. So not every one who tries as hard can get that far, Not because of talent but because of the Height.


Also In Jordan's case he is known as the best, because he has had the most amomunt of points as a player. There are many players as good as him in the league. Even the current him isnt the best. His old self, at his peak was really good. Many other players are better than his current him.


That kind of proves that talent isnt really why he was known as best. He Played alot of basketbal, he enjoyed basketbal and he loved it. Hard work ( practice), experience and love of the sport made him who he was. And as soon as he left the Basketbal scene for a few years and came back, His skills dropped. If he people with talent dont need to try hard, then How come when he comes back, he doesnt have the skill? Based on the born talent theory that some members here are talking about , He should be as skilled as ever, But he isnt.


Its a simple thing. A person who plays alot of video games, can adopt to anew video games alot faster than the person that have just started playing games. Also a person who has watched alot of romance anime , can analyze a scene alot faster than a person who has just started watching them.

So in the eyes of an observer, who doesnt know anything about their background, One would call one talented and other regular. Its because the observer doesnt know, the person he calls talented has played many games more than the other person. In the eyes of observers, we sometimes, confuse talent with hardwork.


Another example, is when one is in a classroom. There are students that undrestand the materials in the lecture alot better than others. Others who dont, would probably call them smart, genious, talented, High IQ and .... . However such person doesnt realize that person might have studied the materials many times before the lecture.


I dont want to brag, but i have been called smart many many many times, because of the grades i get in my college courses. However, although i dont openly say anything, inside i am kind of offended that my hardwork is just explained as talent and being a smart person.


So in reality there is no such a thing as talent. But there are things called IQ , physical attributes, and many other factors that have an effect, but Talent isnt something you are born with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ESC View Post
Lol, the argument doesnt look like it will cease. Lets try to keep it as opinion based and try to accept and understand each other's beliefs. I think its fine to believe that talent is obtained through hard work and I also think its fine to believe that talent is gained since birth.
There is no argument being done here . However there is a good discussion that we all are having. I wouldnt call it an argument, because no one is trying to force their ideas on others, but rather expressing them and discussing them.

So yeah, i am not saying what i am saying is an absolute.
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Old 2008-03-31, 20:10   Link #77
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Seems like everyone's situation "depends" on which is more favourable.

Let's be honest. If I had talent in a field, I wouldn't work as hard or put so much effort in what I do. It would be a more natural thing. It happens at school too, where you start to slack off and cut corners with the thought of your "talent" doing its thing.

Hard work applies, and can apply to anything. With pure talent, you're limited to all that you can do. No one is exeptionally good at everything. We all have weaknesses and frailties. Hard work can slowly do its best to eliminate that, and turn the tables.


To conclude...
Hard work is favourable in all situations
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Old 2008-04-01, 00:30   Link #78
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Originally Posted by ApostleOfGod View Post
Seems like everyone's situation "depends" on which is more favourable.

Let's be honest. If I had talent in a field, I wouldn't work as hard or put so much effort in what I do. It would be a more natural thing. It happens at school too, where you start to slack off and cut corners with the thought of your "talent" doing its thing.

Hard work applies, and can apply to anything. With pure talent, you're limited to all that you can do. No one is exeptionally good at everything. We all have weaknesses and frailties. Hard work can slowly do its best to eliminate that, and turn the tables.


To conclude...
Hard work is favourable in all situations
Though I'm relatively unbiased, choosing "talent" only because I knew "hard work" would have more votes, your first statement is based entirely on subjective opinion and no data at all.
I've been told that I had "talent" at piano since I began playing 8 years ago, but I still "work hard" at it. (coming from one of the most unmotivated persons you will ever meet.)
Singers are almost all "talent", but almost all of them have to "work hard" to do well.

I have no talent in most science-related things, and even when I "worked hard", I wasn't able to be on-par with those who are more scientifically-oriented people.
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Old 2008-04-01, 02:58   Link #79
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Singers are almost all "talent", but almost all of them have to "work hard" to do well.
No. Singing is actually one of those tasks that requires alot of practice. If you read about any singer's past, you will see that they have been doing it for 10 to 20 years , before they got their break.
Quote:
I have no talent in most science-related things, and even when I "worked hard", I wasn't able to be on-par with those who are more scientifically-oriented people.

Talent has nothing to do with science-related things. The more you study the better grade you get. For a 5 unit science class,

5 to 10 Hours of studying/week = C

10 to 15 hours of studying/week = B

15 to 25 hours of studying = A.

So if you have 2 science classes and 2 regular classes ( I.E. GE), you would need to study around 40 hours a week to be successfull .
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Old 2008-04-01, 05:58   Link #80
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No. Singing is actually one of those tasks that requires alot of practice. If you read about any singer's past, you will see that they have been doing it for 10 to 20 years , before they got their break.
If you don't have a "singing voice", much like a person's height or whatever attribute that is required to do well in a certain field, you will never make it, irregardless of the level of hard work you put in (however, this does not apply to everything). It isn't necessarily a talent, but its something that is required.

Kinda like how an ugly individual (As in REALLY ugly) will never be able to become a Hollywood actor/actress even if his acting abilities are superb and is extremely hard working - thats how it works in real life...most of the time anyway.
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