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Old 2010-05-08, 11:56   Link #81
Irenicus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
Yeah, maybe he goes off a bit too much on the grandeur of the adventures--most of my adventures were limited to wacky humor... but the point is that the game allows it. It allowed me and my friends to hold bizarre games with the weirdest of plots, laughing all over the place. It also allows the geeky neckbeards to make LotR clones.
Doesn't that sound like you're having fun because of the interactivity between friends, though? I mean, it sounds like the wacky adventure thing just give you guys a whole lot of in-jokes to laugh on -- which is not a bad thing, mind, it sounds like a lot of fun -- but if our goal is to achieve the Perfect Roleplaying Experience, where one becomes so immersed in another character as to become that character...

The pen-and-paper-and-friends model is not necessarily superior in that goal. It is more elastic, to be sure, yet there is power and immersion in other media elements. Like the MMORPG experience illustrates, how humans interact with a certain setting is most, most peculiar, and what seems limitless proves limiting, while limits can inspire surprisingly deep connection.

But eh, I'm waxing philosophical here. Just ignore if you think I'm full of it.
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Old 2010-05-08, 12:15   Link #82
Kyero Fox
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i wonna see japan try to beat the Fallout Series at its own game (post-apoctolptyic) world
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Old 2010-05-08, 12:21   Link #83
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Ι used to be a DM too, albeit always an amateur. While we were playing to kill time and laugh, the sessions were amazing. When we needed to go by the book and spend a lot of time in actual RP, it was an endless parade of nagging over vague depicted rules, missed bonuses and mentions of rip off by any other series you can think of.
Nope, D&D was for me good whole it was a farce. When it got serious and demanding, it took its toll on my patience. And I finally quit. My players went on playing sessions with far cornier stories and DMs who where pulling them by the nose on anything they wanted to happen anyway, but they were mesmerized by the way they described it so they didn't care.
After that it was solely one player JRPGs for me. Western stories were always like "I played that and read the book, so no, thanks."
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Old 2010-05-08, 12:29   Link #84
Sheba
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Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post

Anyone remember those "non-linear" books? Those "if you say yes, flip to page 100, if you say no, flip to page 150"?

They SUCKED.

I'd rather have a good linear plot than a bunch of bad non-linear ones.

.
Play GrailQuest and Lone Wolf then you can talk.

Also, the best pen and paper rpg campain I have played was a long Mutant Chronicles campain which spanned over several generations of characters, it felt like JoJo's Bizarre Adventures (where characters fight a recurring enemy, never truly defeat him and let their children carrying on the flame) meets Aliens meets Hellraiser. Sure, I am far from being a skald but my friends and I felt that our joint efforts have achieved something that we may never achieve together again. And what we have played after hardly came close as equal.
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Old 2010-05-08, 19:45   Link #85
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Speaking of RPGs, I think both sides are heading to way I didn't like. Newer WRPGs are catering FPS fans and JRPGs are catering anime and manga fans. Why? Let me explain it further.

Nowadays some WRPGs are tend to have first-person view and more importantly guns, lots of it. Fallout 3 and Borderlands are the worst offenders. Just because it has some retarded(in universal sense) RPG elements doesn't make you an RPG. I also don't understand why most Western gamers love guns lot. Just look how they loved Resonance of Fate despite being another JRPG. In other words it just a Star Ocean(which they hate) game with guns and explosive instead of swords and magic.

As for JRPG, they start to milk otakus' money. Gust games(Atelier Iris, Mana Khemia and Ar Tonelico) and Shin Megami Tensei Persona 3 & 4. Equally impressive that SEGA translated the fifth Sakura Wars game, a franchise that nobody know except some otakus. SEGA knew who are going to buy it, despite having extremely small fanbase. As for Persona games, the previous two titles in PS1 are nothing like the ones in PS2.
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Old 2010-05-08, 19:59   Link #86
HayashiTakara
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This is becoming more of a genre debate rather than the actual games. Who cares if it's by purist definition of a roleplaying game or not? The games are officially classified as an RPG, debating it is pointless, complaining about it won't change the world.

On another note, if you really want to be really basic about it, all games are "roleplaying" you take control (the role) of said hero/heroine and you control him/her to go through the game's "story". Sure you didn't "create" the character but you're still taking up the role of that character when you play the game. When you play mega man, you're playing the role of a mechanical hero out to save the world from evil reploids. When you play resident evil you're taking up the role of Chris/Jill/Rebecca/Leon/Claire/etc to save the world from umbrella.
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Old 2010-05-09, 02:03   Link #87
Sanger Zonvolt
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
PS: I think the quality of the dungeon master shouldn't be a matter of question here--it's whether the game allows it or not. I've had good DMs and bad DMs, but it's all part of the experience.

PPS: He's very right in the fact that stats must be hidden. I've stopped playing D&D and moved onto other tabletop RPGs because D&D is so fucking number heavy. It's annoying as hell and computers give us the chance to get rid of it.
But stats are part of the fun of rpgs.

Quote:
i wonna see japan try to beat the Fallout Series at its own game (post-apoctolptyic) world
Do you mean make a better shooter? or just the setting?
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Old 2010-05-09, 04:13   Link #88
Sheba
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Originally Posted by Sanger Zonvolt View Post
or just the setting?
The setting of course. It's part of the reason why Fallout had fans in the first place, in a market choked with D&Desque fantasy for wRPGs or whatever bastard fantasy with guys in impossibly cool clothes you find in jRPGs.
Quote:

Nowadays some WRPGs are tend to have first-person view and more importantly guns, lots of it. Fallout 3 and Borderlands are the worst offenders. Just because it has some retarded(in universal sense) RPG elements doesn't make you an RPG. I also don't understand why most Western gamers love guns lot
Tell me how exactly guns are bad, compared to the erotic fascination that people have over 7ft (exagerration) long swords.
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Old 2010-05-09, 05:46   Link #89
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The far west (western America) has a thing for guns (cowboy movies are part of their cult elements), the far east for swords (samurai movies are their famous trend). Surprisingly, the middle areas are more open to both (such as Medieval movies with knights or gun showdowns ala John Woo). And both are phallic symbols; nothing new here. And all the characters are super cool, muscular men or slim huge breasted fashion models; no news again. And most of the time the goal is to save the world; no news.

But as stated before western games are more focused on STATISTICS AND SIDE QUESTS while eastern are more focused on STORY AND CHARACTERS. In a very generalized notion, western RPGs are about cardboards you draw anyway you like and go on exploring a huge world, while leaving the main bad guy to wait for you in his castle a few kilometers away. Eastern games are more about a long, linear journey along a corridor, where you empathize with pre-constructed characters.
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Old 2010-05-09, 08:44   Link #90
Poetic Justice
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The thing is if you choose to tell a story based on an open world, There will always be sacrifices made to the plot. Being linear allows for perfect pacing, Something which i feel some JRPG's have nailed down.

But being open has it's advantages too. How many times in fallout 3 did i stumble upon something randomly while exploring and the experience is so exhilarating and so much more immersive than something you'd find in a linearly told tale.

The best thing would be a balance between the two, Though it seems impossible.
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Old 2010-05-09, 08:59   Link #91
Kyero Fox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanger Zonvolt View Post


Do you mean make a better shooter? or just the setting?
I mean both, and I do mean FALLOUT2. Fallout 2 is the main reason Fallout 3 sold well.

fallout1&2 are still top on the "legendary games" till this day. right there with zelda and metriod

I'm more of a Sword and Shield knight guy, I'll buy a Medievil game over a samurai or cowboy game anyday. I still play morrowind and oblivion till this day (not so much anymore tho)
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Old 2010-05-09, 10:17   Link #92
HayashiTakara
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Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
I mean both, and I do mean FALLOUT2. Fallout 2 is the main reason Fallout 3 sold well.

fallout1&2 are still top on the "legendary games" till this day. right there with zelda and metriod

I'm more of a Sword and Shield knight guy, I'll buy a Medievil game over a samurai or cowboy game anyday. I still play morrowind and oblivion till this day (not so much anymore tho)
I wouldn't go that far... Zelda are known by everyone that plays video games and Mario... hell your grandparents know who that is. it's a household name, Fall Out is only known by a select few. Hell I didn't even know about that series until an old roommate of mine in college who was abit of an anti-social gamer, told me about it a few years ago.
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Old 2010-05-09, 10:43   Link #93
Kyero Fox
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no my grandparents don't know about Zelda. and people who dont know about fallout I'd go so far to say their not gamers. or atleast gamers from america.
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Old 2010-05-09, 10:54   Link #94
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My parents don't even know Sonic. It took me 20 years to teach them who is Mario. Let's not head over to popularity.
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Old 2010-05-09, 12:57   Link #95
Sheba
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Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
no my grandparents don't know about Zelda. and people who dont know about fallout I'd go so far to say their not gamers. or atleast gamers from america.
Well, mainstream gamers or new gamers would not have known Fallout if not for the marketing promotion of Fallout 3.
Let's be honest here, if a new gamer was asked to choose between playing Fallout 2 or Final Fantasy VIII (which both were 1 year apart in term of release), guess which one would get the upperhand in term of immediate appeal.
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Old 2010-05-09, 13:02   Link #96
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And if I was to offer a million teenagers a choice between Zeiheist and Betty does Hollywood, we all know which one most would pick. What does popularity have to do with the topic here?
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Old 2010-05-09, 23:05   Link #97
KBTKaiser
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Originally Posted by Poetic Justice View Post
The thing is if you choose to tell a story based on an open world, There will always be sacrifices made to the plot. Being linear allows for perfect pacing, Something which i feel some JRPG's have nailed down.

But being open has it's advantages too. How many times in fallout 3 did i stumble upon something randomly while exploring and the experience is so exhilarating and so much more immersive than something you'd find in a linearly told tale.

The best thing would be a balance between the two, Though it seems impossible.
Suprisingly, I think JRPG nailed sandboxing rather well with Metal Saga. very open ended, you can do anything at any time(your stats are your limiter) and you can even end the game before the adventure even starts. XD
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Old 2010-05-10, 08:52   Link #98
Benoit
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
Don't feed the troll. The guy is a lunatic who always thinks he's right, and gains pleasure from trolling and putting down other people with his idiotic commentary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socke
Just look how they loved Resonance of Fate despite being another JRPG. In other words it just a Star Ocean(which they hate) game with guns and explosive instead of swords and magic.
I don't think that's the reason why they loved that game at all.
Quote:
Equally impressive that SEGA translated the fifth Sakura Wars game, a franchise that nobody know except some otakus.
They didn't translate it. NIS did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara
When you play mega man, you're playing the role of a mechanical hero out to save the world from evil reploids.
You mean X from the Mega Man X series.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyero Fox
and people who dont know about fallout I'd go so far to say their not gamers. or atleast gamers from america.
Don't be stupid.
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Old 2010-05-10, 11:08   Link #99
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For me playing JRPGs is like watching a movie while playing WRPGs is like collecting Pokemons.
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Old 2010-05-10, 11:14   Link #100
Kyero Fox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoit View Post
You mean X from the Mega Man X series.

Don't be stupid.
No shit sherlock, who else would that be?

and no, I'm not being stupid. I'm being a fallout fanboy
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