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Old 2008-07-08, 04:48   Link #121
Blaat
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I enjoyed the first episode but I swear the backgrounds are annoying me, oh don't get me wrong they're stunning and beautiful to look at, but they're distracting me because sometimes I'm wondering whether the background is actually drawn or if its simply a photo.
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Old 2008-07-08, 06:21   Link #122
Same_Shark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaat View Post
I enjoyed the first episode but I swear the backgrounds are annoying me, oh don't get me wrong they're stunning and beautiful to look at, but they're distracting me because sometimes I'm wondering whether the background is actually drawn or if its simply a photo.
I have to agree with you. It seems like really lazy work, but I'm sure we'll both get used to it. Maybe not, only time will tell.
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Old 2008-07-08, 07:14   Link #123
Ashlotte
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Music was about the only thing that made much of an impression on me from the first episode although they had the annoying habit of cutting songs off just as they were getting started several times...

Still looks like it might develop into a decent SoL show so looking forward to where this is going.
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Old 2008-07-08, 07:58   Link #124
mdauben
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Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles View Post
I do agree that they can have slice of life events that has to do with grievous situations (Grave of the Fireflies..), but I'm not sure how open ended it is really is indicative of the genre specification.
Perhaps its just a matter of hazy definitions on such fan jargon, but I think the clasification "slice of life" is waaaay overused and on shows that really don't qualify. No way is Grave of the Fireflys a "slice of life" story as the term is used to describe anime like Azumanga, Ichigo Marshmellow, etc. Sure, its a story of the life of real life drama of the main characters, but that (IMO at least) is not the same thing as "slice of life".

Quote:
I mean it surely can be for a lot of shows because they simply don't have a singular aim, but look at Azumanga and you can basically sum it up as something that happened in highschool.
Yes, taking that archetypical example of "slice of life", in Azumanga there is no great drama, no overarcing plot, no great tragedy, just everyday events in the lives of the characters. If a story does have a definete plot, or strong elements of drama, romance or tragety, it can't be "slice of life" (the anime term) even if it is a slice of the life of the character(s) involved.

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Surely the earlier examples were the romance anime of the 80's, so the idea isn't that new. Just that people seems to be realizing the goal of certain storytelling styles of anime.
Again, I don't see series like Maison Ikkoku as "slice of life" even though the stories were about the lives of the main characters becuase there was a plot to the show, there was drama and romance and tragedy.

Quote:
Also, I agree with the idea that no matter what the genre, setting or characterizations, you can still attach the slice of life tag there as long as an anime focuses singularly on a single character and his/her life.
That definition probably includes 90% of the anime ever made, which makes it for practical purposes pretty useless as a catagory. With that broad a definition, saying a show is "slice of life" tells you practically nothing about the show, as it can be just about anything and qualify using your definition.

Shrug. Lacking an offical dictionary of anime classifications, I guess it just comes down to how we use the term, and I definetly use a more stringent qualification for "slice of life" that you do. Although its perhaps too early to tell, I don't see MTnTnK as being a "slice of life" show at all. While not much has happened yet, we have been set up for a definite story about the journey and growth of the main character.
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Old 2008-07-08, 16:09   Link #125
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i liked the first episode the story so far is extremely similar to someday's dreamers or the first season, i really want to see the sequel, but can't find it. the background is wierd cuz it looks so real, i also like the use of irish music makes it more whimsical and magical, i love the op too.
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Old 2008-07-09, 06:20   Link #126
SuperKnuckles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdauben View Post
Perhaps its just a matter of hazy definitions on such fan jargon, but I think the clasification "slice of life" is waaaay overused and on shows that really don't qualify. No way is Grave of the Fireflys a "slice of life" story as the term is used to describe anime like Azumanga, Ichigo Marshmellow, etc. Sure, its a story of the life of real life drama of the main characters, but that (IMO at least) is not the same thing as "slice of life".
That's why I said it has slice of life 'aspects' to it. I agree it's more of a drama than anything else, but some anime definitely put more of a real-life style pacing to things rather than only go straight for story exposition. In that sense, I think movies like Grave of the Fireflies was ahead of its time. That said, it truly WAS a slice of life if you think about it, since the original story was from a real life memoir. I mean, if you think about what slice of life truly means, it boils down to what can actually happen in real life. And in that sense, as broad as it sounds, I think it is something special in an anime where it can tell something as close to a real, genuine real-life style story as it can.

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Yes, taking that archetypical example of "slice of life", in Azumanga there is no great drama, no overarcing plot, no great tragedy, just everyday events in the lives of the characters. If a story does have a definete plot, or strong elements of drama, romance or tragety, it can't be "slice of life" (the anime term) even if it is a slice of the life of the character(s) involved.
I don't disagree entirely, though with stuff like magical girl shows, there is the generic premise and a beginning and an end. But just about all magical girl shows have the inbetween episodes that consist entirely of having no real goals but taking life as they come. And of course, a monster of the week comes and ruins things, but that's like a given in those types of shows. Again, I'm not really saying any and all shows with slice of life aspects would be labeled as a gigantic "SLICE OF LIFE" anime. Just that more and more shows tends to focus on it more than in the past. In sentai/magical girl shows of the past, it was always about fighting the enemy at the foremost in the way the shows were based upon with the mundane life of the characters at the background. I think that idea has sorta switched since then.

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Again, I don't see series like Maison Ikkoku as "slice of life" even though the stories were about the lives of the main characters becuase there was a plot to the show, there was drama and romance and tragedy.
I don't think you can just plop down 'drama, romance and tragedy' and correlate a continuous, orchestrated plot that way all the time to discount slice of life shows. I think when you can actually have a slice of life show with those elements, it can make up for a good, flowing narrative. Again, I think Binbou Shimai Monogatari fits that bill so well. It had drama and it had tragedy too, and thankfully, most of it stemming from the daily flow of things. And yet I don't think you can just go out and start calling it a drama show because it still focuses on the slice of life storytelling techniques.

Quote:
That definition probably includes 90% of the anime ever made, which makes it for practical purposes pretty useless as a catagory. With that broad a definition, saying a show is "slice of life" tells you practically nothing about the show, as it can be just about anything and qualify using your definition.
Um, no it doesn't. The vast majority of anime are still concerned more about plot progression and liberally skip time to tell a story. That is NOT slice of life. I think you're misunderstanding what I mean by multiple anime having slice of life aspects. If you think that means I believe "90%" of all anime have that aspect, you just aren't getting my point. Even in my most optimistic estimates, I'd say that only 5% of anime I've watched consistently focus on a slice of life aspect to have that 'slice of life' feel to them, even in the midst of being in other genres.

Again, just because some anime have definite categories attached such as sports, drama, romance, magical girl, it doesn't mean their storytelling techniques can't consist of slice of life aspects. Surely, that doesn't mean EVERY type of show has it, because they clearly don't. Most magical girl shows basically don't have as much of the slice of life feel that Precure does, for example (Nanoha had only a few episodes of them, while maybe something like Mermaid Melody had quite a few). Sailor Moon and a few other magical girl shows came close to hinting towards it, but were not nearly spontaneous enough to really feel like a slice of life stuff. Maisson Ikkoku actually came close when not all its events had to do with progressing the linear romance angles. It had some slice of life elements, but again, that doesn't mean I believe it's 100% slice of life nor did it even have that kind of aspect that something like Precure did.

Quote:
Shrug. Lacking an offical dictionary of anime classifications, I guess it just comes down to how we use the term, and I definetly use a more stringent qualification for "slice of life" that you do. Although its perhaps too early to tell, I don't see MTnTnK as being a "slice of life" show at all. While not much has happened yet, we have been set up for a definite story about the journey and growth of the main character.
I don't think my idea is stringent other than that some peoples' definitions are too rigid and don't really comprehend the general idea of the *storytelling technique*. Again, try to see that I'm talking about the way a story is told, not in what anime fills into a certain genre necessarily. Again, with something like Azumanga, it's pretty obvious. But with others, there's the shades of gray. Sports anime with pretty spontaneous non-sports aspects comes close. Magical girl non-plot-essential stuff can come pretty close too. But if you read what I said before, they're still sports and magical girl shows. But perhaps with more slice of life aspects than some of their peers depending on how the story is told.

And this is almost hilarious to me, how backwards that logic that MTTNK supposedly 'isn't' a slice of life style show. Because like you said, almost nothing happened and there's just this generalized goal to be had (jeez, reminds you of Aria doesn't it?). Again, it depends on how the plot is told from now on. I recall Code-E again, and that was almost purely a slice of life show even with some plot progressing points here and there. While its sequel seems to not go for that kind of storytelling aspect (though I could be wrong and they might settle down for a slower storytelling approach). As for MTTNK, things DID happen within the story, but mainly in the sense of the characters basically living out their lives. That sounds awfully lot like the prescribed category of slice of life to me.

I honestly don't understand all the beef that is going on with calling certain things slice of life shows, because even if you count them all, they're still in a very small minority. I mean, am I supposed to hate on the "slice of life" tagging now? Or is it supposed to be some sort of a small, taboo term? I don't believe it is. Or as it was said (hilariously so), is it a term of status? Give me a break, man. But you know, it is pretty funny when some people call Kenshin or Lovely Complex as slice of life. But clearly, if you read into all this crap I had to write about the topic, maybe you'd get the hint that I'm not the type to do that. Maybe. I see a pattern in that *certain* people are shoehorning me into some category of people who put "90% of anime" as slice of life. I mean that's a low blow, not to mention COMPLETELY missing my point.

Last edited by SuperKnuckles; 2008-07-09 at 06:41.
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Old 2008-07-09, 08:43   Link #127
WanderingKnight
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Quote:
I honestly don't understand all the beef that is going on with calling certain things slice of life shows, because even if you count them all, they're still in a very small minority. I mean, am I supposed to hate on the "slice of life" tagging now? Or is it supposed to be some sort of a small, taboo term? I don't believe it is. Or as it was said (hilariously so), is it a term of status?
Umm, I don't get it. It's a genre, that's all. What I said about a term of "status" is what many people are making it out to be, wrongly so, without even understanding what defines a genre (hint: it's not being based on real life). But even if very few shows actually correspond to the genre itself, why is it wrong? I really, really don't get it.

Quote:
Maybe. I see a pattern in that *certain* people are shoehorning me into some category of people who put "90% of anime" as slice of life. I mean that's a low blow, not to mention COMPLETELY missing my point.
Let the people who do that do it. They don't understand how a genre works, and that's that. Why do you need to adjust yourself to them?

Why are we arguing about this again? Does anyone have any doubts about MTnTnK being a slice of life show?
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Old 2008-07-09, 14:58   Link #128
Kaoru Chujo
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episode 2

The prospect of listening to a whole show of Hanazawa Kana every week makes me very, very happy. What a wonderful voice -- drifting back toward the real moe Kana-chan.
Spoiler for ep2:
The Tokyo backgrounds were just wonderful, and they and the animation seemed to me to work better together than with the Hokkaido backgrounds.
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Old 2008-07-09, 15:32   Link #129
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Spoiler for ep2:
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Old 2008-07-09, 15:51   Link #130
nanafan
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i am waiting for the next ep, in episode 1 it was kinda slow i was hoping it would be faster
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Old 2008-07-09, 18:40   Link #131
Srin Tuar
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ep2 hypnotized me. The continuous bumping into mr no-magic is somewhat predictable,
but otherwise it was an interesting and intruguing show.

Does anyone have any information on the insert song?
I must find out what the chords were in that song.
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Old 2008-07-09, 22:55   Link #132
dojikyo
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Just finished watching the first episode.

I'm starting to dislike hd animation. While backgrounds are beautiful, they are essentially static, the grass doesn't sway with the wind and what not. The character designs themselves were frequently simplistic and all of eating is really jarring. You'll have this highly detailed corn. Then all the food turns into giant, colored blocks.
It seems like either the animation has to give or the detail has give with hd animation.

Now that I've gotten that I off my chest, the first episode was slow but promising. Michiru's love life happened way too early for the viewer to care, but it does demonstrate that Sora can use magic and the use of magic is possibly restricted. I hope the pace is better for the second episode.
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Old 2008-07-10, 01:22   Link #133
Freeter
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I wanted a slice of life series and got a slideshow instead. What's even worse is they RECYCLED certain images

I've heard of cutting corners, but this is just ridiculous. Unless Osamu Kobayashi is planning on unleashing a Kyoani-worthy magic sequence in future episodes, this series is going to remain a disappointment animation-wise.

The OP is catchy and Sora is cute, but five minutes of staring at random photos is more than my patience can tolerate. If this show somehow picks up, I may revisit it. Doesn't seem too likely though.
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Old 2008-07-10, 04:53   Link #134
Seravy
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liked ep2. getting somewhat used to the wonky character animation, and still impressed by the amazingly detailed bg's. loving the OP the more i listen to it. and god kana-chan's voice is so damn moe.
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Old 2008-07-10, 06:03   Link #135
SuperKnuckles
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
Umm, I don't get it. It's a genre, that's all. What I said about a term of "status" is what many people are making it out to be, wrongly so, without even understanding what defines a genre (hint: it's not being based on real life). But even if very few shows actually correspond to the genre itself, why is it wrong? I really, really don't get it.
Yeah, I was being pretty sarcastic there. To me, it's an easy to understand idea on top of there being the idea that there are certain storytelling elements to something. But just because you have a certain aspect in a bigger story, that doesn't make it such (like the sports anime references I kept making. Slice of life stuff or not, they're still sports anime). Really, I think the best way to even describe slice of life is not really in the genre since they're so vague themselves, but as that one descriptor of many. Though I personally think it's a clear cut idea, from all the discussion so far, I can at least accept that everybody seems to look at different things in their shows. Which is perfectly fine, though I don't think that reality in itself really detracts from the idealism of what slice of life strives to be.

Quote:
Let the people who do that do it. They don't understand how a genre works, and that's that. Why do you need to adjust yourself to them?

Why are we arguing about this again? Does anyone have any doubts about MTnTnK being a slice of life show?
Yes, a few people in this very thread were saying that.

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Originally Posted by dojikyo View Post
Just finished watching the first episode.

I'm starting to dislike hd animation. While backgrounds are beautiful, they are essentially static, the grass doesn't sway with the wind and what not. The character designs themselves were frequently simplistic and all of eating is really jarring. You'll have this highly detailed corn. Then all the food turns into giant, colored blocks.
It seems like either the animation has to give or the detail has give with hd animation.

Now that I've gotten that I off my chest, the first episode was slow but promising. Michiru's love life happened way too early for the viewer to care, but it does demonstrate that Sora can use magic and the use of magic is possibly restricted. I hope the pace is better for the second episode.
I really don't think HD anime really constrict themselves that way, at least with not this show since the backgrounds WERE static. I don't think it's as much of a problem and I don't think standard definition really makes it magically better, because all the anime nowadays are computer colored and sometimes, animators will get lazy and put in simple color palettes and animate them (or not animate them) as they see fit. I do think real-life or highly detailed computer animated stuff works best with HD, but I don't think it necessarily is detracting for anime. At least by default with the higher def, you get deeper and crisper color. Even for the easy-to-criticize aspects of high def anime such as far-away characters that you can see clearly and sometimes look like mangled walruses, that problem was still there since the standard def days. Just that we couldn't see them as clearly as we can now. I said this a while ago, but I think the animators were just being lazy with the show so far. Maybe once the plot actually starts moving, maybe we can see some budget into the character animation part.
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Old 2008-07-10, 10:00   Link #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeter
hurr hurr Kyoani-worthy magic sequence hurr hurr
Whatever you said about animation quality loses its ground once you start putting Kyoani as the bestzor studio evah. So please, look for other examples of high quality animation to compare this to.
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Old 2008-07-10, 10:00   Link #137
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I myself get into drawing so much and have to say that I always like any anime which has ''being drawn'' instead of ''being made''. I am aware that computer will be useful and be a great help in animation but it should not be overused, and this is my own opinion . The technology can be developed higher and higher, and it is quite under human's control. However, 'drawing' can be counted as 'genius', distinguished. HD background in Natsu no Sora is an example for me. It can create an admiration inside myself, but it can't make me feel of love. I admire, and then I forget.

The only point that I'm looking forward to this anime is the story line and its characters. By its slice-of-life content, it will make me calm and feel at ease while this busy life tortures me day by day.

Somehow, this Natsu no Sora cannot compare with ‘Yomigaeru - Rescue wing’, the slice-of-life genre I watched in last year.
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Old 2008-07-10, 10:12   Link #138
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The thing about choosing a particular style of animation is that it has to fulfill a purpose in the series. The problem with studios like Kyoani is that they don't care about giving each series a particular style and end up with 5 series that look exactly the same even when their particular themes give way to individualization and differentiation (perhaps with the exception of Lucky Star, but I doubt people will consider that to be an animation masterpiece, not even most rabid Kyoani fans).

Hal has made quite a number of series, and they've made some good choices when it comes to applying an individual style to each of them, either visually or simply atmospherically. And the thing with this series is, as I see it, that they are trying to put an emphasis in the stillness. That's what the filtered photographs used in backgrounds gives me an idea of. Of course, I'm not naive enough to believe that all of this has to do with the studio's artistic merit (it is certainly a way of cutting corners when it comes to money), but it manages to produce a very coherent piece of artwork.
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Old 2008-07-10, 12:07   Link #139
dojikyo
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I don't know KyoAni does have some really fluid animation. Their Full Metal Panics were more impressive than Gonzo's.

But I have to agree about their designs. After watching Air and recently finishing Kanon, I was already kind of burning out on Key adaptations. Then Clannad comes out as yet another Key adaptation with the same visual style as Kanonm and, to a lesser extent, Haruhi. Technically it is a new story but it was just similar and I just lost interest halfway through.
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Old 2008-07-10, 16:21   Link #140
Freeter
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
Whatever you said about animation quality loses its ground once you start putting Kyoani as the bestzor studio evah.
Consistent designs, attention to detail, dynamic framing, realistic lighting and weather...yeah, they're total amateurs

Quote:
So please, look for other examples of high quality animation to compare this to.
Madhouse, Production IG, JC Staff...hell even GONZO can do better.

Quote:
they are trying to put an emphasis in the stillness
If that truly is their intention, then it's working. Even the clouds don't move.
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