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Old 2004-01-21, 22:46   Link #1
Raxial
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Inking

Right now I have to do my drawings with pencil then scan them in and use various techniques to get a solid black outline. I need a good pen for outlines, but is there like a special [type of] pen specifically for outlines, or should I just grab any old non-ballpoint pen for the job?

I guess I'm asking: "what do you guys use?"
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Old 2004-01-21, 22:58   Link #2
fenrihr
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..... i use either a uniball pen (the 'professional executive'-looking kind that cost like 2 bucks for a pair)

or a calligraphy pen, unfortunately i'm a jittery person so my lines turn out not so smooth or straight. something someone (Asura) once reccomended was to redraw it in ink on tracing paper.... that works very very well.
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Old 2004-01-21, 23:01   Link #3
Tzurial
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What you need are MICRON pens. Theyre good and relatively inexpensive
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Old 2004-01-21, 23:07   Link #4
Splur
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i use the old style, quib pens with the weird metal tops which if it splits, you're screwed. yes...with the ink bottle. but i find it works the best except when the ink runs and ruins your picture...
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Old 2004-01-22, 00:32   Link #5
juri_miki
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For inking I use Japanese pen nibs, especially the wonder that is the G pen, microns, or any archival ink pens. Also there's this other Japanese pen that is realy good for extremely thin lines, like excellent for backgrounds, but it's a real hassle to handle. Also the rapidigraph.
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Old 2004-01-22, 00:48   Link #6
zillford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raxial
...should I just grab any old non-ballpoint pen for the job?...

heh, don't disregard the ballpoint...

I JUST started experiementing with 'em. they're great if you like the gradiation allowed with pencils, ballpoints are excellent...

you can really get the same sort of feel with them. just look at my "Naruto - fan character art" thread. that's done entirely in ballpoint (after pencils).

otherwise... any ink is great, just get it nice and dark. once in photoshop, use the levels sliders to get it where you want it. also, scanning at at least 600 dpi is good for inks, any less will hurt them.


finally, try Adobe Illustrator, if you're interested, I can give you a link to a great tutorial for digital inking...
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Old 2004-01-22, 18:57   Link #7
juri_miki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zillford
heh, don't disregard the ballpoint...

I JUST started experiementing with 'em. they're great if you like the gradiation allowed with pencils, ballpoints are excellent...

you can really get the same sort of feel with them. just look at my "Naruto - fan character art" thread. that's done entirely in ballpoint (after pencils).

otherwise... any ink is great, just get it nice and dark. once in photoshop, use the levels sliders to get it where you want it. also, scanning at at least 600 dpi is good for inks, any less will hurt them.


finally, try Adobe Illustrator, if you're interested, I can give you a link to a great tutorial for digital inking...

The problem with ballpoints is that they don't last very long. I mean if you want your piece to die with you then use the ball point. If you want your art to exist after you're gone then use india ink or waterproof ink.
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Old 2004-01-22, 22:07   Link #8
zillford
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he has a point...

they gradiate like pencils, so they die like them too.

the solution? fixative spray. or, as in my case, just scan 'em and back 'em up. lasts even longer than india ink :P

I'm so forgetful I usually can't keep an original for more than a few weeks. thank god for the scanner.
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Old 2004-01-22, 23:11   Link #9
juri_miki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zillford
he has a point...

they gradiate like pencils, so they die like them too.

the solution? fixative spray. or, as in my case, just scan 'em and back 'em up. lasts even longer than india ink :P

I'm so forgetful I usually can't keep an original for more than a few weeks. thank god for the scanner.

Yeah, but in the end anything can happen to that file and unless you have the top of the line printer that can bust a print job that's like 2,000 lines p/inch it's better to have the original.

Anyways, I always thought that the originals were more valuable than a print. I mean a print is a print, but to have the original piece is another thing.

Like even for woodblock prints and the whatnot, the first one in the series was always worth more due to the fact it was the first one. By the time you got to the last one, it wasn't worth as much, because the quality wasn't the same.

Maybe a post in how to better take care of art is in order.
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Old 2004-01-23, 12:41   Link #10
zillford
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well, sure anything can happen to that file... but even MORE things can happen to an original. it's not like it's immune to damage, theft, fire, etc.

if you backup a picture digitally, in several places, you have the best chance of it seeing the year 3000.


and a peices value is created by what it means to a person (usually a buyer) and, as with my digitally inked works, I sell only ONE print of the black and white line, making it the original. after that, I only make color prints.

it's the rarity, usually, that determines value, but sometimes people DO want that ratty, pencil scribbled, original work. so it's always a good idea to take care of art, in any form.
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Old 2004-01-23, 16:44   Link #11
Raxial
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you actually sell your stuff?
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Old 2004-01-24, 18:54   Link #12
zillford
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that I do,

$50+ for a commission
$8 for a print
$4 shipping and handling

but I'm currently booked on commissions, so I can't take any more at the time.
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Old 2004-01-24, 19:00   Link #13
Raxial
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well what kinda stuff do you do? Realism, portaits, or what?
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Old 2004-01-25, 15:24   Link #14
zillford
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I'll do anything a person would want to pay me for. but I specialize in 'Americanime' (a blend of anime and american comic influences) as you would have seen in any of my art posts here.

but, truth be told, I make 98% of my big money on anthropomorphic porn...

you asked, didn't you? :P
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Old 2004-01-25, 16:24   Link #15
noZ
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w00t!!!! i want to see some of your anthro wachta macallit - porn!
just kidding.....(the perv is strong within me), but can we maybe see some of it....you know...my interest is purely art related
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Old 2004-01-25, 21:26   Link #16
get_a_life
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raxial
Right now I have to do my drawings with pencil then scan them in and use various techniques to get a solid black outline. I need a good pen for outlines, but is there like a special [type of] pen specifically for outlines, or should I just grab any old non-ballpoint pen for the job?

I guess I'm asking: "what do you guys use?"
basic lining:
- staedtler sketching pen pigment liner pack, includes: 0.1 mm, 0.3 mm, 0.5 mm, 0.7 mm.

they work really well and dont shit clumps of ink like ball points do. plus they're smoother.

theres a lot of brands out there but i trust staedtler and sakura. but i guess if you want to be a japan-otaku then go with sakura.

also, you should use what you're comfortable with, even if its shitty ball point pen. but if you're really serious about drawing, ditch your cheap Bic ball point pen (that you found on the floor) and expand your mediums.

pigment pens should be your first step.

then different kinds of paper. thicker paper tends to work well with pigma pens, they wont bleed like regular copy paper. and if you're really serious, buy vellum, available at your local office depot or Kelly Paper. vellum easily absorbs ink and doesnt bleed or run off. its also translucent so you can trace over stuff, which pretty much eliminates a light box but thats later on.

then markers. Copic markers are absolutely wonderful to use when coloring your line art. its a good way to have a rough sketch and rough render before your cg your work. actually, they're also pretty good to use hand render final pieces too. they have two sides: one flat chisel side and a finer point. so its versatile.

i dont really advocate color pencils. they're so time consuming to use and a major pain on your wrists to just sit there and color forever. im not dissing any color pencil-ers but its just so inefficient. color pencils suck. so dont use them. if you do use them, have a portable sharpener handy. panasonic has a nice inexpensive, and reliable, model.

whats really cool is gouache. its water color paint. i use white gouache to add highlights on the eyes and hair and any other part that needs light highlighting.

lol i think ive reached my limit. i'll shut up now. i hope ive helped with the tool issue. i'll say it again though, use whatever you feel comfortable with.
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Old 2004-01-26, 00:07   Link #17
zillford
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well, I don't think that any of my salable stuff would be appropriate for this board, but I can post some of my less dirty work if you find a thread that it seems appropriate in.
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Old 2004-01-26, 00:52   Link #18
zillford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by get_a_life
...if you're really serious about drawing, ditch your cheap Bic ball point pen (that you found on the floor) and expand your mediums...
you'll excuse me if I whole heartedly disagree with you here.

ball points can give you a VASTLY different inking style than other inks, and is in no way less serious than using pricy tech pens. many awesome artists excell in ball point, so don't doubt it's viability.

also, many people have never TRIED inking in ballpoint, so for most it IS 'expanding your mediums'.

thirdly, the fact that they only cost you about a dime a piece is not a fault in any way. get good with ball points and you could be saving yourself quite a few dollars, even in a short term perspective.

and finally, ball points can be found most anywhere, so by having experience with them you can be more versatile in your art readiness. forget your art materials going to a Con? just grab the pen off the hotel check in desk, voila.

while I have no PERSONAL experience with them, colored pencils shouldn't be spat on either. I've seen amazing things done with them, at high speeds too. their 'inefficient' nature is purely your own feelings.


"use whatever you feel comfortable with..." seems contradictory and yet more accurate than anything else you were saying.
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Old 2004-01-26, 01:18   Link #19
get_a_life
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zillford
you'll excuse me if I whole heartedly disagree with you here.

ball points can give you a VASTLY different inking style than other inks, and is in no way less serious than using pricy tech pens. many awesome artists excell in ball point, so don't doubt it's viability.

also, many people have never TRIED inking in ballpoint, so for most it IS 'expanding your mediums'.

thirdly, the fact that they only cost you about a dime a piece is not a fault in any way. get good with ball points and you could be saving yourself quite a few dollars, even in a short term perspective.

and finally, ball points can be found most anywhere, so by having experience with them you can be more versatile in your art readiness. forget your art materials going to a Con? just grab the pen off the hotel check in desk, voila.

while I have no PERSONAL experience with them, colored pencils shouldn't be spat on either. I've seen amazing things done with them, at high speeds too. their 'inefficient' nature is purely your own feelings.


"use whatever you feel comfortable with..." seems contradictory and yet more accurate than anything else you were saying.
by experience, this is what i use. ive used ball points before and they are horrible. its inconsisent at times and the way they clump ink is random and not to mention how they randomly run out then work again. ive ruined a lot of my works with ball point. yeah theyre cheap to use and you get exactly what you pay for. these problems arent even technique related. its the pens fault. or then again should i invent some technique so the pen WONT clump up/"run-out"? dont deny the pens problems. cheap pen vs. hours spent on art work... you take the gamble. id rather buy a good pen and avoid problems.

btw have you used any of the tools i mentioned? they really help a lot with illustrating. just try it out.

anyway, the way i work cirlces around efficiency. from experience these tools aid in that. this is my opinion and im free to express it. if you dont like it then you dont. simple as that. im only trying to get people to expand past ball-point and try different things. they might like it, they might not.

furthermore...
Quote:
Originally Posted by raxial
"I guess I'm asking: "what do you guys use?"
i was answering his question.
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Old 2004-01-26, 18:07   Link #20
zillford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by get_a_life
should i invent some technique so the pen WONT clump up/"run-out"? dont deny the pens problems. cheap pen vs. hours spent on art work... you take the gamble. id rather buy a good pen and avoid problems.
I dunno about your technique, but I've never had any of the problems you've mentioned. none of my ball point work has been a "gamble". I really don't know how to help you.


Quote:
btw have you used any of the tools i mentioned? they really help a lot with illustrating. just try it out.
I've used just about every brand of inking device under the sun, ball points "really help" just as much as tech pens in the right hands. so I have "just tried it out".

Quote:
anyway, the way i work cirlces around efficiency.
I'm not really sure what you're saying without a grammer check on that one, so I can't really reply to it.

Quote:
this is my opinion and im free to express it. if you dont like it then you dont. simple as that. im only trying to get people to expand past ball-point and try different things.
you're totally right, it IS your oppinion, and you HAVE expressed it. I was merely exercising MY right to express one right back. I didn't tell you you were wrong, I simply said that I disagree about the fallacies of ball points.

and as I said before, ball points are rarely tried in the first place, so it's not a matter of "expanding past" them. try EVERYTHING, and find out what works best for you.

Quote:
I was answering his question
I understand that, but I had to step in when your answer belittled a technique that I HIGHLY recommend. you told what you used, but then added how BAD ballpoints are. I had to give my counter side to that, so that he could make a decision based on ALL oppinions.
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