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View Poll Results: Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 24 Rating
Perfect 10 75 29.41%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 61 23.92%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 47 18.43%
7 out of 10 : Good 38 14.90%
6 out of 10 : Average 13 5.10%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 7 2.75%
4 out of 10 : Poor 4 1.57%
3 out of 10 : Bad 2 0.78%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.39%
1 out of 10 : Painful 7 2.75%
Voters: 255. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-04-01, 06:22   Link #141
LeaD36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feRfe View Post
hmm the ending was alright storywise

the animation and insert song was amaaaaazing though so 10/10

and how can anyone even argue that the love triangle hasn't been concluded? please...
havenīt seen the episode though, but i remember season 1 ending with shana saying the magical words, thus Yuji not remembering what she said, thinking itīd be impossible that it was aishteru or however u write the word.

btw aRi.feRfe, or whatever your new clan is?
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Old 2008-04-01, 07:03   Link #142
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Originally Posted by tabun View Post
Allright, may I suggest everybody calm down?



Cheers
Yea right i have been saying that since the Konoe arc and people just arent going to do it, even at the very end the same old arguments and few new ones are still being tossed around it will never end and if we get a season 3 bloody hell i fear it will only be worse.

I still find it funny how many people think the love triangle has been put to rest and are getting themselves all worked up. If you have watched enough anime you know certain fundamental little things. Like if a person is killed but you see no body THEY ARE NOT DEAD the same goes for ambiguous endings, and everyone is having the exact same reaction the writers wanted them to have. We saw Kazumi shed a tear and we say Shana smile ok sure Ill go on limb and say it looks bad for Kazumi but there is no concert proof as Yuji was not shown in either scene. Basically its a think what you want end just H2O, but please feel free to fall in the writers trap.

At this point i really just want it to end but after looking into Kazumi a little bit more i understand her determination a little bit better now. How many us can truly say they would sacrifice our lives for another? Even just being a human she in was harms quite a lot and helped not only Yuji but Shana as best she could she did only what she could being human and i believe thats where her roll lies she is the link to the human world. Shana did a lot of growing in season 1 but not a lot in season 2 though she is making progress she is still really selfish but for reconginze her feelings and acknowledge Kazumi as a friend is a great progress because in the end even without Yuji Kazumi and Shana are friends.

It was never about the fact that there were 2 girls who loved him. It was about the choice he had it was always his choice and this is true of many other events. The events in season 2 were about choices Yuji had to make and the reason why he did.
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Old 2008-04-01, 09:10   Link #143
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Wow that was dissapointing. The fight scenes were painful to watch. The action looked like it was happening in fast forward. What a freakin rush job. And for two seasons we've been waitin for Yuji to pick a girl and all we get is a smile from Shana. no confession... no dialog between the characters?!?!? I WAITED 48 episodes and i can't get some romantic talk between Shana and Yuji when he apparently chooses her?!?!
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Old 2008-04-01, 10:31   Link #144
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Originally Posted by alvinkhorfire View Post
Yuji choosing Shana? I don't think so since disappearing Yuji's footprint did not fit well here. More feasible explanation is that when he was heading to either Shana or Kazumi (most probably Shana), he mysteriously disappeared. Unless it was shown a scene where Yuji confronts Shana, I am not convinced that Yuji has chosen Shana.
GEEE....
What? Are you still rooting for Yoshida or some more harem/filler episodes? Gimme a break. OK granted, the love triangle thing was resolved a bit abruptly/ambiguously. But there's no way Shana-our title character/uber Flame Haze, can lose to Yoshida. It would be the end of the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Chibi
Gag.
Hey, I hope the third season starts out by Shana reseting everything again, and then they can use the same villains again, and we can go through another love triangle again and .....
FUCK, what an absurd waste of time, there was so much potential to just beast with this show and it was just used the wrong way. What a disappointment.
I was thinking the same darn thing you know.
I never liked Yoshida, not once. Why, you ask? A better question: Why is she even here? She didn't call out Pheles. Yeah, nobody wants to die, but at least she could have admitted being a selfish coward or sth, no, all she did was "Shana told me to redo this, so why the hell should I die now? I think I'll stay here till everything's over, then run to Yuji." If you ask me, she's trying her best to be a bitch. Sorry if I offend anyone, but it's just that she's such an eyesore.
Apart from Kazumi, I enjoyed *cough* pretty much everything else, including the lame defeat of Bal Masque. What can I say, "human error"? I think I can put up with Hecate being emo in the middle of a fight, she would be more of a character that way, unlike the other version of her *cough*, and hey isn't she gonna be one of Yuji's subordinates later on? So yah, Hecate FTW.
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Last edited by greyhawk; 2008-04-01 at 11:10.
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Old 2008-04-01, 10:45   Link #145
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Originally Posted by greyhawk View Post
GEEE....
What? Are you still rooting for Yoshida or some more harem/filler episodes? Gimme a break. OK granted, the love triangle thing was resolved a bit abruptly. But there's no way Shana-our title character/uber Flame Haze, can lose to Yoshida. It would be the end of the world.
Correction: It would be a nice ending, as the perfect match for Yuji with Kazumi would be made.
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Old 2008-04-01, 11:22   Link #146
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Originally Posted by ChrissieXD View Post
Correction: It would be a nice ending, as the perfect match for Yuji with Kazumi would be made.
But there is not currently anything pointing in that direction. Just some gross misdirection with "ending-footprints". For all we know those were Ikes. He likes to wander snowy streets so he can get opening song shots of himself afterall. (YES, I do say that you said "WOULD be", so this isn't an attack or something)

Besides, rejection and then suddenly being offered power for whatever reason, being a new villian and earning Kazumis love through dramatic scenes like that would be even MORE anime original than the past 2 episodes
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Old 2008-04-01, 11:28   Link #147
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What would make anyone think that the footprints were Yuji's? It wouldn't make any sense whatsoever if it was his.
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Old 2008-04-01, 11:34   Link #148
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Originally Posted by Dragon-Emperor View Post
But there is not currently anything pointing in that direction. Just some gross misdirection with "ending-footprints". For all we know those were Ikes. He likes to wander snowy streets so he can get opening song shots of himself afterall. (YES, I do say that you said "WOULD be", so this isn't an attack or something)

Besides, rejection and then suddenly being offered power for whatever reason, being a new villian and earning Kazumis love through dramatic scenes like that would be even MORE anime original than the past 2 episodes
It may be anime original, but it's the way it should end in the Chrissieverse.

I think the footprint weren't Yuji's. I think it's meant to be whoever the loser was, showing them walking back home.
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Old 2008-04-01, 11:36   Link #149
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That was exactly my thoughts, Chrissie

But, putting the Chrissieverse aside, I really don't get how anyone is doubting that Yuji went with Shana, the entire dialog and actions of Yuji and Shana makes it an obvious end... it just pure denial?
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Old 2008-04-01, 11:37   Link #150
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It's pretty obvious they made the ending just clear enough to infer he made a choice and thus (sort of) satisfy the legions of fans looking for a decision, but vague enough so they could justify begining season 3 with "oh, well he met her but just said he didn't want to choose yet".
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Old 2008-04-01, 11:37   Link #151
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Originally Posted by ChrissieXD View Post
It may be anime original, but it's the way it should end in the Chrissieverse.

I think the footprint weren't Yuji's. I think it's meant to be whoever the loser was, showing them walking back home.
You know what? Go Virginia Caveliers! (j/k)

But that is a possibility - except then they would have done some other things with the ending as well.
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Old 2008-04-01, 11:38   Link #152
Owaranai Destiny
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Everything has a good and bad side, and I'm convinced while pessimism is in the rage nowadays, I see a few ways in which certain things can be said to be for the better. This, after finishing the last tow episodes back to back.

-I get the feeling that I was missing something when that was supposed to be their objective: All that trouble to create a new Tomogara?!? Didn't realise until they said it was a first in the history did I get it. It was supposed to be some groundbreaking experiment, and along the way we knew nothing about it (Not sure if anyone actually speculated this, but I sure as hell didn't see any of those) except that Balle Masque was doing something strange by slowly harassing the Reiji Maigo.

The bad thing about this is even though the motive was completely masked from us viewers for most of the season, you would have thought that the Flame Hazes were at least sensible enough to provide some protection or at least show some concern over the trend of things that were happening to Yuuji. Makes it seem as though he's the only intelligent dude on their side. Way to go for the 'dumb' good guys.

-I like the fact that Kazumi didn't use the Giralda in the end, because it came in line with her behaviour. She had been a worrywart all along, and even though there was resolution in some of her actions (such as wanting to do all she can to play catch-up with Shana and Yuuji), getting herself killed in order to save Yuuji would show that she doesn't trust Shana, and with her death she would effectively be breaking the promise between her and Shana to see who 'won' out in the end. It would defeat the entire purpose of the competition, because she hasn't given up.

If only they had more time to show her struggling with her inner thoughts...Well, too bad the focus was on the fighting.

-Speaking of which, while it seems apparent that the animation is not too bad in this episode, the jumping of scenes made things seem a little confusing, especially with Wilhelmina and Margery. The former was at first flying about and fighting for a while, and when we jumped back to her, her clothing is torn and she has already bandaged herself up. Likewise with Margery. It just seems so strange that she recovered so suddenly and in the nick of time to save Kazumi from the window shards. I attribute it to poor pacing, a consistent bug in the season itself.

-As for Hecate's miss, the obvious first thing that comes to mind is that it's supposed to justify the Konoe episodes earlier. I'm not entirely buying it mainly due to the fact that a good chunk of the season went to waste. By shortening the Konoe arc by even just one or two episodes, J.C probably might not have so many problems with pacing of episodes.

However, I will accept that it DOES give meaning to the Konoe arc earlier on, and IF there's a season three, it will be a nice angle to explore...hopefully with better planning of how the subplots will turn out.

-I quite like the Yuuji-Shana interactions, because while Shana seemed like she's gone back to her usual self during battle with Yuuji around, the latter is now standing on an almost equal height to her status. Instead of being 'recon', Yuuji was promoted to 'support fire' in the face of stronger foes and Shana probably realised it too (This is also one point which Kazumi failed to realise earlier, and I think it boils down simply to her failing to recognize the change in Yuuji's mindset now. Unfortunate as it may seem, that probably spelt doom for her in the love-triangle resolution).

-I'm also left bemused at three things: The absence of either Fecor or Bel-Peol in overseeing the protection of such an important specimen. Wouldn't either of them remaining in Serei-den be enough to observe what was happening?

The second thing is the state of the Flame Hazes. Margery was knocked out in one blow just like that, leaving her issue with Silver practically completely unresolved. It would have been nice to see her rushing back to the battlefield after the nice save of Kazumi because of her vendetta against the Silver, or at least the fact that she wasn't called a 'battle freak' for nothing.

The third thing being how the combination of the Professor and Domino making the better part of entertainment for me. In case anyone has complained about having a character sprouting out too much of the truth behind his schemes, it's apparent that Prof here has a *slight* case of megalomania, or can be what we call 'crazy'. However, it was pretty entertaining and informative nonetheless, else some of us wouldn't have an inkling of what was going on in the end.

-Kudos to Hecate and Syndonay for acting like 'true' villains. Didn't leave much talk in between trading blows (or "OMG bling bling" projectiles) with Wilhelmina and Shana.

-The whole episode itself actually felt rushed, especially at the ending. Cheap as it may be, I've decided to blame it on the consistent problem SnS II had throughout of poor pacing, i.e. shortening some time of the supposedly quirky Prof-Domino interactions and cutting down on the 'bling' in the attacks of everyone, especially Hecate.

-So all supposedly ends well for Yuuji, since he does protect everyone from something that was ironically part of him in the first place (well, technically in the second place so far, since Johan was the first being to own and use the Reiji Maigo). I don't quite get the furore behind the disappeared footsteps.

(1) Shana probably can't smile so happily if Yuuji suddenly disappeared in front of her, and it doesn't make sense for Yuuji to disappear after all that he's done to retain his existence. IMO, that's probably one of the worst endings ever and even if J.C. was indeed as incompetent as the many detractors here make them out to be, I doubt they will pull that fast one on us. If they did, I might just join the camp.

(2) Couldn't it be possible that Yuuji actually took a longer step forward, or even an unlikely possibility that they were simply used to symbolise a difference in his taking a step forward because of the 'change' he was talking about in the last few lines before the ending scene?

Even though there was meant to be resolution for some of the characters here, especially for Shana, Yuuji and Yoshida, I don't get that feeling mainly due to the novel developments as well as the obvious fact that Balle Masque is still there, and the antagonist as a main body is still alive. What kind of a series leaves their antagonists alive without giving some sort of resolution to them (concillation or death)? That alone should be a good reason why Season III is a viable possibility.

By the way, is there a season evaluation thread somewhere?
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Old 2008-04-01, 11:45   Link #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greyhawk View Post
GEEE....

I was thinking the same darn thing you know.
I never liked Yoshida, not once. Why, you ask? A better question: Why is she even here? She didn't call out Pheles. Yeah, nobody wants to die, but at least she could have admitted being a selfish coward or sth, no, all she did was "Shana told me to redo this, so why the hell should I die now? I think I'll stay here till everything's over, then run to Yuji." If you ask me, she's trying her best to be a bitch. Sorry if I offend anyone, but it's just that she's such an eyesore.
Apart from Kazumi, I enjoyed *cough* pretty much everything else, including the lame defeat of Bal Masque. What can I say, "human error"? I think I can put up with Hecate being emo in the middle of a fight, she would be more of a character that way, unlike the other version of her *cough*, and hey isn't she gonna be one of Yuji's subordinates later on? So yah, Hecate FTW.
WOW did you actually pay attention the importance and the underlining message of the scene? You simplified what the scene was all about and threw the importance of it out the window. Her wanting to redo things with Shana was not the only reason why she did not use it. The significance of the scene was trust and believing in your friends. She stated that she wanted to believe that Yuji and Shana yes she said Shana as well would come back safely. Calling Pheles would have been the easy way out because it meant she did not trust either of her friends to come back safely. That scene was not about being romantic or getting Yuji to pick one of them. She said when it was over she would greet them with "welcome back". The same thing could be said for any soldier going into battle who wants to be welcomed back home with a smile and knowing that someone cares. Kazumi is Shana's friend its funny that most people forget that fact, she actually cares a lot about Shana's well being.

Also, remember if it was not for Kazumi neither Shana or Carmel would have know that the RM was removed from Yuji and that he was also within in the barrier. As for being a coward i think thats very extreme. Shes actually quite brave she has put herself in harms way many times to SUPPORT her friends its not all about fighting. Is it her fault that shes not a flame haze? no its not i wonder if you have the same view if the situation was reverse and Yuji was chasing Shana as a human not the wielder of the R.W. or a mystes. Being human does not make you powerless and not having special powers does not make you a coward. Its takes more conviction to help your friends knowing that you could be killed than to stand by and do nothing. Kazumi accepted Yuji even though technically he shouldnt exist in the world anymore her feelings never changed that shows true character.

I wish viewers would try to look below the surface instead of taking everything at face value, there is more than meets eye. For the recored im pretty much neutral with Kazumi and Shana although lately i leaned a little bit towards Kazumi.
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Old 2008-04-01, 11:51   Link #154
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-Just Finished this episode and. . .

Whew what a pure fighting scene, and once and for all we see Shana, Wilhelmina together with Yuji in full action (maybe Yuji is half-action lol)
Get to the point, so Yuji chooses Shana?(I know this is the major topic here together with season 3 discussions) Because the last smile was on Shana lol maybe about 80% or so but who knows what happen after that, like did Yuji confess to Shana or Confess about fighting like I want to fight beside you ^o^ hmm I really one to have a season 3 of this anime but I'm afraid that this will take ANOTHER year lol because the last season is 1yr old than this II season. hmm I hope this sept or so. . .
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Old 2008-04-01, 11:51   Link #155
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I think Kazumi tried to rationale her chickening out. She saw her own demise from using the Hougo than came up with an excuse.

Just a joke, but I think after Yuji never showed up in front of Kazumi, she decided to use the Hougo to end her misery lol
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Old 2008-04-01, 11:51   Link #156
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Originally Posted by ChrissieXD View Post
Correction: It would be a nice ending, as the perfect match for Yuji with Kazumi would be made.
Well, if you suggest that Yuji be paired with Kazumi, would it be possible to pair Shana with Keisaku?
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Old 2008-04-01, 12:14   Link #157
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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
That was exactly my thoughts, Chrissie

But, putting the Chrissieverse aside, I really don't get how anyone is doubting that Yuji went with Shana, the entire dialog and actions of Yuji and Shana makes it an obvious end... it just pure denial?
Oh, no, I know how it ended. I admit that Yuji chose Shana. It's just, the possibility that he chose Kazumi is still there. It's a logical thought process for those in denial.

@minhtam Well, at least you didn't say Go WVU! Then there would be some problems.

@CapoExecuter I suppose... My thoughts were that she would actually remain single and return to her loyalty to Alastor and the world of Flame Haze. Hence the ending would be "Life goes on as usual". Well, Yuji would be turned back to normal in that scenario as well.
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Old 2008-04-01, 12:22   Link #158
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Remember what Yuji said at the end? Saying how he has changed his world, I think its basically saying how he's moving on with his new life with Shana in a world apart.

If there is a season 3, I'm betting we'll be seeing a lot more Yuji swinging his big ol' sword around.
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Old 2008-04-01, 12:33   Link #159
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Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny View Post
Everything has a good and bad side, and I'm convinced while pessimism is in the rage nowadays, I see a few ways in which certain things can be said to be for the better. This, after finishing the last tow episodes back to back.

-I get the feeling that I was missing something when that was supposed to be their objective: All that trouble to create a new Tomogara?!? Didn't realise until they said it was a first in the history did I get it. It was supposed to be some groundbreaking experiment, and along the way we knew nothing about it (Not sure if anyone actually speculated this, but I sure as hell didn't see any of those) except that Balle Masque was doing something strange by slowly harassing the Reiji Maigo.

The bad thing about this is even though the motive was completely masked from us viewers for most of the season, you would have thought that the Flame Hazes were at least sensible enough to provide some protection or at least show some concern over the trend of things that were happening to Yuuji. Makes it seem as though he's the only intelligent dude on their side. Way to go for the 'dumb' good guys.

-I like the fact that Kazumi didn't use the Giralda in the end, because it came in line with her behaviour. She had been a worrywart all along, and even though there was resolution in some of her actions (such as wanting to do all she can to play catch-up with Shana and Yuuji), getting herself killed in order to save Yuuji would show that she doesn't trust Shana, and with her death she would effectively be breaking the promise between her and Shana to see who 'won' out in the end. It would defeat the entire purpose of the competition, because she hasn't given up.

If only they had more time to show her struggling with her inner thoughts...Well, too bad the focus was on the fighting.

-Speaking of which, while it seems apparent that the animation is not too bad in this episode, the jumping of scenes made things seem a little confusing, especially with Wilhelmina and Margery. The former was at first flying about and fighting for a while, and when we jumped back to her, her clothing is torn and she has already bandaged herself up. Likewise with Margery. It just seems so strange that she recovered so suddenly and in the nick of time to save Kazumi from the window shards. I attribute it to poor pacing, a consistent bug in the season itself.

-As for Hecate's miss, the obvious first thing that comes to mind is that it's supposed to justify the Konoe episodes earlier. I'm not entirely buying it mainly due to the fact that a good chunk of the season went to waste. By shortening the Konoe arc by even just one or two episodes, J.C probably might not have so many problems with pacing of episodes.

However, I will accept that it DOES give meaning to the Konoe arc earlier on, and IF there's a season three, it will be a nice angle to explore...hopefully with better planning of how the subplots will turn out.

-I quite like the Yuuji-Shana interactions, because while Shana seemed like she's gone back to her usual self during battle with Yuuji around, the latter is now standing on an almost equal height to her status. Instead of being 'recon', Yuuji was promoted to 'support fire' in the face of stronger foes and Shana probably realised it too (This is also one point which Kazumi failed to realise earlier, and I think it boils down simply to her failing to recognize the change in Yuuji's mindset now. Unfortunate as it may seem, that probably spelt doom for her in the love-triangle resolution).

-I'm also left bemused at three things: The absence of either Fecor or Bel-Peol in overseeing the protection of such an important specimen. Wouldn't either of them remaining in Serei-den be enough to observe what was happening?

The second thing is the state of the Flame Hazes. Margery was knocked out in one blow just like that, leaving her issue with Silver practically completely unresolved. It would have been nice to see her rushing back to the battlefield after the nice save of Kazumi because of her vendetta against the Silver, or at least the fact that she wasn't called a 'battle freak' for nothing.

The third thing being how the combination of the Professor and Domino making the better part of entertainment for me. In case anyone has complained about having a character sprouting out too much of the truth behind his schemes, it's apparent that Prof here has a *slight* case of megalomania, or can be what we call 'crazy'. However, it was pretty entertaining and informative nonetheless, else some of us wouldn't have an inkling of what was going on in the end.

-Kudos to Hecate and Syndonay for acting like 'true' villains. Didn't leave much talk in between trading blows (or "OMG bling bling" projectiles) with Wilhelmina and Shana.

-The whole episode itself actually felt rushed, especially at the ending. Cheap as it may be, I've decided to blame it on the consistent problem SnS II had throughout of poor pacing, i.e. shortening some time of the supposedly quirky Prof-Domino interactions and cutting down on the 'bling' in the attacks of everyone, especially Hecate.

-So all supposedly ends well for Yuuji, since he does protect everyone from something that was ironically part of him in the first place (well, technically in the second place so far, since Johan was the first being to own and use the Reiji Maigo). I don't quite get the furore behind the disappeared footsteps.

(1) Shana probably can't smile so happily if Yuuji suddenly disappeared in front of her, and it doesn't make sense for Yuuji to disappear after all that he's done to retain his existence. IMO, that's probably one of the worst endings ever and even if J.C. was indeed as incompetent as the many detractors here make them out to be, I doubt they will pull that fast one on us. If they did, I might just join the camp.

(2) Couldn't it be possible that Yuuji actually took a longer step forward, or even an unlikely possibility that they were simply used to symbolise a difference in his taking a step forward because of the 'change' he was talking about in the last few lines before the ending scene?

Even though there was meant to be resolution for some of the characters here, especially for Shana, Yuuji and Yoshida, I don't get that feeling mainly due to the novel developments as well as the obvious fact that Balle Masque is still there, and the antagonist as a main body is still alive. What kind of a series leaves their antagonists alive without giving some sort of resolution to them (concillation or death)? That alone should be a good reason why Season III is a viable possibility.

By the way, is there a season evaluation thread somewhere?
First of all, thank you for taking both sides on this and actually analyzing this ending in a calm way. Most people are so angry about SnS II going into the last episode that no matter what the final episode did, they will hate it anyways. You get cookie.

For your last question, here is where you vote for season evaluation.

And yes, I think that it was made clear this episode that Yuji will choose Shana. Also, the footprints at the end, Yuji was talking when they were showing, right? Who else could they belong to if they're not Yuji's?
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Old 2008-04-01, 13:37   Link #160
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Originally Posted by greyhawk View Post
GEEE....
What? Are you still rooting for Yoshida or some more harem/filler episodes? Gimme a break. OK granted, the love triangle thing was resolved a bit abruptly/ambiguously. But there's no way Shana-our title character/uber Flame Haze, can lose to Yoshida. It would be the end of the world.
You got me wrong. I will always support Yuji to be with Shana. If the footprint was not shown, I will be convinced that Yuji has chosen Shana. The footprint seems to leave a twist at the end of season 2.
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