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Old 2009-02-07, 15:21   Link #1461
BigGimp77
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Originally Posted by Twisted Reality View Post
Pshaw.

Nakiami isn't weird. She's just unusually mature and assertive for her age. So if anything, your tastes are predictable and your attraction inevitable.
Well I mean growing up in an isolated village that is part of some oddball religion that deals with mysterious creatures. Maybe not weird but she defiantly isn't your normal human lol.



As for Eureka 7. It was very good but had too many flaws to be considered a 'masterpiece.'
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Old 2009-02-07, 16:40   Link #1462
Zippicus
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Pretty decent show, would have been better if the ending wasn't made of so much unnecessary wtf-ness. I really wanted to like the ending, everything turned out like I'd want it to, but they totally blew the execution.
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Old 2009-02-07, 17:04   Link #1463
Shiroth
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Originally Posted by Zippicus View Post
would have been better if the ending wasn't made of so much unnecessary wtf-ness.
I didn't see any wtf scenes in the last episode. Mind sharing your thoughts a little?
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Old 2009-02-07, 17:14   Link #1464
Sylphic
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Um.. maybe I'm dumb. I just marathoned this whole series in about 2 sittings, and I am COMPLETELY lost for that final arc.

In fact, I don't get why the Xam'ds routinely turn to stone and then turn back. I'm convinced it was bad story telling, I totally didn't understand a thing that happened.
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Old 2009-02-07, 17:16   Link #1465
Shiroth
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In fact, I don't get why the Xam'ds routinely turn to stone and then turn back. I'm convinced it was bad story telling, I totally didn't understand a thing that happened.
I guess a lot of people just don't pay attention to things.

It was made clear (i thought) that a Xam'd doesn't die when turned to stone, so that explains Akiyuki at the end.
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Old 2009-02-07, 17:39   Link #1466
Zippicus
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Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
I didn't see any wtf scenes in the last episode. Mind sharing your thoughts a little?

Spoiler for 3 things in particular that bugged me:
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Old 2009-02-07, 18:48   Link #1467
Manji Midou
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Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
I didn't see any wtf scenes in the last episode. Mind sharing your thoughts a little?
How did aki come back from being a rock...was that explained....l think l missed if it was...
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Old 2009-02-07, 19:56   Link #1468
Shiroth
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Spoiler for 3 things in particular that bugged me:
For question one, look at the bigger picture. Everything wouldn't have been solved after the Emperor was defeated --- what Nakiami did had nothing to do with that.

Question two, aardvark explains that.

Question three, this happens all the time in anime. People are caught up in explosions and don't die. It's nothing new.
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Old 2009-02-07, 20:09   Link #1469
typhonsentra
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Old 2009-02-07, 20:17   Link #1470
Twisted Reality
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Originally Posted by typhonsentra View Post
Spoiler:
They didn't actually do anything. Bones gave the illusion that they did.

Or to put it simply: A wizard did it.

A somewhat longer answer:
Akiyuki lost his identity so the Emperor could gain one (nonsense). So in short, some sort of funky magic went down. He was locked into the statue for nine years in limbo until Haru pulled him out by thinking at him really hard. If I were the animator, I'd have him emerge unshaven, raggedy, a bit dazed and buck-naked -- just because it's funnier that way. But of course, that wouldn't be as a romantic a reunion.

The Quickening Chamber does something to souls or something. They're hazy on the details. Thematically, it means the sacrifice of the pilgrims didn't go through when Nakiami hit the "off" switch. After that, shutting down the chamber farted sunshine and rainbows and everybody gawks at the sun, because it's not like they saw it yesterday or anything. I'm not sure why that means she has to be put into stasis for millenium or why the soldiers didn't go back to killing each other. . . so. . . magic.
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Last edited by Twisted Reality; 2009-02-07 at 20:28.
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Old 2009-02-07, 20:22   Link #1471
aardvark
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Surprised at all the confusion over such a simple ending.

Spoiler for Last ep:


The overall story of the show is not that hard to grasp from what is given. Im really surprised to see so many people not get stuff that was given in almost implicit exposition.

The actual problem with the story is in the actual details and how they don't always add up and there being many logical problems in the development of those details, especially in regards to the shows timeline. Many aspects just don't add up.
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Old 2009-02-07, 20:30   Link #1472
Twisted Reality
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Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
Surprised at all the confusion over such a simple ending.

Spoiler for Last ep:


The overall story of the show is not that hard to grasp from what is given. Im really surprised to see so many people not get stuff that was given in almost implicit exposition.

The actual problem with the story is in the actual details and how they don't always add up and there being many logical problems in the development of those details, especially in regards to the shows timeline. Many aspects just don't add up.
Nah, it's just that they try to read more into the plot than is actually there.

Which is still something I'm blaming on Bones.
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There are women who, however you may search them, prove to have no content but are purely masks. The man who associates with such almost spectral, necessarily unsatisfied beings is to be commiserated with, yet it is precisely they who are able to arouse the desire of the man most strongly: he seeks for her soul -- and goes on seeking.
-from Nietzsche's Human, all too Human, s.405, R.J. Hollingdale transl.

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Old 2009-02-07, 20:39   Link #1473
Twisted Reality
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Originally Posted by BigGimp77 View Post
Well I mean growing up in an isolated village that is part of some oddball religion that deals with mysterious creatures. Maybe not weird but she defiantly isn't your normal human lol.
Oh, okay, so you mean to say that she's mysterious, not weird. What's happening here is simple animal chemistry.

We'll all suffer insanity and anomie from your inexplicable tastes for girls who are merely . . . dare we say it . . . unusual.

God help us all.
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There are women who, however you may search them, prove to have no content but are purely masks. The man who associates with such almost spectral, necessarily unsatisfied beings is to be commiserated with, yet it is precisely they who are able to arouse the desire of the man most strongly: he seeks for her soul -- and goes on seeking.
-from Nietzsche's Human, all too Human, s.405, R.J. Hollingdale transl.

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Old 2009-02-07, 20:40   Link #1474
aardvark
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Originally Posted by Twisted Reality View Post
Nah, it's just that they try to read more into the plot than is actually there.

Which is still something I'm blaming on Bones.
For what reason?

The series was never billed as anything more than an ensemble drama with traditional fantasy/sci-fi trappings. Which is what it was, until the show started focusing on the two leads more and more, albeit one in better fashion than the other.

If people want to think there is more to it, thats their fault. Same thing with saps convinced that there are deeper connotations to Evangelion, beyond some form of (failed) anti-otaku social criticism.

Could the story-line itself be presented in a clearer fashion? Sure, but all it comes down to is the writers and director not having the skill to accomplish what other Directors and writers have done with previous Bones anime. Not some rubbish explanation like they are being vague just to seem "deep."
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Old 2009-02-07, 20:45   Link #1475
Twisted Reality
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Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
For what reason?
Bones is one of those studios that can convince you that they're all about total thematic unity and that their narratives are mature and should therefore make sense.

Personally, I don't think it is "rubbish" to say they are vague to seem deep. That doesn't exactly seem like something that's exclusive to the process of bad writing or directing. They bit off more than they could chew.
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There are women who, however you may search them, prove to have no content but are purely masks. The man who associates with such almost spectral, necessarily unsatisfied beings is to be commiserated with, yet it is precisely they who are able to arouse the desire of the man most strongly: he seeks for her soul -- and goes on seeking.
-from Nietzsche's Human, all too Human, s.405, R.J. Hollingdale transl.

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Old 2009-02-07, 21:04   Link #1476
aardvark
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Originally Posted by Twisted Reality View Post
Bones is one of those studios that can convince you that they're all about total thematic unity and that their narratives are mature and should therefore make sense.

Personally, I don't think it is "rubbish" to say they are vague to seem deep. That doesn't exactly seem like something that's exclusive of bad writing or directing.
That is what I am getting at.

I totally reject the notion that its purposefully vague to appear as though it means something more than it does. For the simple fact that for the most part all the ingredients are in the show. They just aren't executed in a proper fashion that lives up to the studio. They completely fumbled many aspects, yet the pieces were there nevertheless.

All it comes down to is the staff not having the skill to craft a show as well as what you're describing. I expected more out of them, but it wasn't to be. Thats all there is to it.
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Old 2009-02-07, 21:16   Link #1477
Twisted Reality
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That is what I am getting at.

I totally reject the notion that its purposefully vague to appear as though it means something more than it does. For the simple fact that for the most part all the ingredients are in the show. They just aren't executed in a proper fashion that lives up to the studio.

All it comes down to is the staff not having the skill to craft a show as well as what you're describing. I expected more out of them, but it wasn't to be. Thats all there is to it.
No. I'm not saying it is necessarily intentional on their part.

If they also lack the skill to do what they promised, then it pretty much supports my point. Furthermore, not all the "ingredients" were necessary.

Some of it feels like they didn't really pick and choose their battles. This is abundantly clear because they do a lot of shameless cribbing off of Miyazaki, so I can't wonder if they didn't just cram that into the show just because they thought it would be cool.
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There are women who, however you may search them, prove to have no content but are purely masks. The man who associates with such almost spectral, necessarily unsatisfied beings is to be commiserated with, yet it is precisely they who are able to arouse the desire of the man most strongly: he seeks for her soul -- and goes on seeking.
-from Nietzsche's Human, all too Human, s.405, R.J. Hollingdale transl.

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Old 2009-02-07, 21:26   Link #1478
aardvark
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Originally Posted by Twisted Reality View Post
No. I'm not saying it is necessarily intentional on their part.

If they also lack the skill to do what they promised, then it pretty much supports my point. Furthermore, not all the "ingredients" were necessary.

Some of it feels like they didn't really pick and choose their battles. This is abundantly clear because they do a lot of shameless cribbing off of Miyazaki, so I can't wonder if they didn't just cram that into the show just because they thought it would be cool.
about to go out, so just touching on this quickly:

Again, it goes with whether or not they had the skill to pull it off. Is wanting to give homage to Ghibli a bad thing? No it isn't. Especially since the Director himself worked with Miyazaki on Spirited Away, not to mention some on the animation team having Ghibli on their resume. Its understandable they want to bring some of that spirit on the show they are working on.

But again, its a question of skill. Rather than incorporating it as a homage, it DOES come off as simply copying aspects.

Im probably repeating myself, but I dont think its an issue of "eyes bigger than their stomach." Its skill and its experience, both of which was lacked on several aspects of the show (note I didnt say all, as it DOES have good aspects too, unrelated to animation)
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Old 2009-02-07, 22:29   Link #1479
Zippicus
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Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
For question one, look at the bigger picture. Everything wouldn't have been solved after the Emperor was defeated --- what Nakiami did had nothing to do with that.

Question two, aardvark explains that.

Question three, this happens all the time in anime. People are caught up in explosions and don't die. It's nothing new.
As to question one, which wasn't really a question The problem is that they didn't really explain what the hell was going on, which was my main beef. I mean I can make some educated guesses as to what the hell was going on, but isn't that the directors job ?

As to two, yeah I get what they expect us to buy into, and it might have worked if the had used any kind of a sensible explanation. At the very least Haru could have looked at least a little surprised that her boyfriend wasn't a rock anymore.

And three just because other shows use ridiculous plot devices doesn't make this one any better. They didn't make even the slightest effort to make her survival seem possible other than the standard "If they don't show a corpse they're not dead" thing.

If all that stuff worked for you, I'm happy for you, but it just didn't cut it with me.
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Old 2009-02-07, 22:39   Link #1480
zalem
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Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
I guess a lot of people just don't pay attention to things.

It was made clear (i thought) that a Xam'd doesn't die when turned to stone, so that explains Akiyuki at the end.
When was it made clear? When were we ever shown a Xam'd returning to normal after completely turning to stone? I don't recall it. But maybe there was a conversation I don't remember on the issue. If so, could you point it out? Because this one point is the main thing that's bugging me about the ending. If it was said at some point earlier that xam'd can come back after fully turning to stone then that pretty much resolves the problem completely. Akiyuki spent 9 years lost, forgetting who he is and only after some time does Haru's voice get through to him and he is able to come back. But if there was never any clear info on what happens to Xam'd when they turn to stone, then that makes the ending more uncertain. Or at least it makes it a poor one because they are randomly adding a new element not previously explained in the series just to get the happy ending. But again, if you can point out the conversation then that would help greatly (all the pieces would fall together with such info). My memory is rather bad, so it's entirely possible I forgot something.
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