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Old 2008-04-07, 20:47   Link #81
ZODDGUTS
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Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post

And meh, Bokura ga Ita bored me sometime near the beginning. So did Lovely Complex as well. I dunno, but after maybe half a decade of practically reading every shoujo scanslation out there, every other shoujo title seems so bland. Even I don't know how long my interest would last for this series. Maybe until the episode when Naoki does get punched in the face, I dunno lol. (nope not a spoiler, as I don't even remember which group did I read the manga from lol)
Also found Bokura ga Ita boring not to say it was bad but found it boring when watching it. I do like Lovely Complex yeah the series isn't original and a bit cliche but I love how the atmosphere of the manga is and how the characters act I mean where else in a shoujo series would you see a couple punch each other and laugh at it, the comedy in the series is well played. It's one of the very few shoujo series that makes me burst in laughter in every chapter.
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Old 2008-04-07, 21:39   Link #82
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Itazura na Kiss

Interesting premise for the series although I'm not particularly a fan of the art style or genre(?). I might stick with it just for Kotoko's seiyu Nana Mizuki (水樹 奈々) who was superb as Moka in R+V and Toma in Okawari.
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Old 2008-04-07, 22:38   Link #83
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Trying not to derail... it wasn't the plot of Lov*Com that I enjoyed so, yes that was by the numbers (though it *did* have a conclusive ending) .... it was the characterizations and the dialog that I enjoyed.

I suspect this is somewhat by the numbers (though the close call in ep 1 actually had me worried) but it will depend on whether the characters break trend, if Irie-kun is actually a bit complex (sometimes an ass, sometimes decent) and if Kotoko avoids a personality crash (hideous old-fashioned moral for girls).
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Old 2008-04-07, 23:59   Link #84
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I like the animation for this series, it feels old school (even though I haven't really seen many old school anime). Also I like the pacing of the series. Even though its only the first ep, it feels like a series where you don't get ridiculous amounts of absurd events going on. I haven't read the manga so may be im wrong, but thumbs up for the series so far
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Old 2008-04-08, 04:22   Link #85
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just watched the first ep and it seems that i'll be following this one too...

the female lead charmed me a lot... dunno why
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Old 2008-04-08, 04:44   Link #86
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the interaction between her and her dad was pretty funny. lmao @ their house being the only house to go down like that. The woman taking the photos of her and taking off laughing was pretty funny too. Terrible sequence of events for Kotoko Looking forward to seeing more of this.
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Old 2008-04-08, 04:48   Link #87
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normally dont watch these kinds of anime (though I give everything a fair try) but I really enjoyed the first episode, probably stick with it
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Old 2008-04-08, 07:15   Link #88
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Out of all the first episodes I've seen this week, I enjoyed this the most. I put it down to Naoki actually laughing at her twice, sure he's an ass and inconsiderate, but until he laughed he seemed like a character who looked bored with everything and never cracking an expression.

I very much hope they can nicely balance comedy and drama in the future as the relationship grows.
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Old 2008-04-08, 12:29   Link #89
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Something didn't work in my eyes, in episode 1. I believe the narration style was somehow clumsy and not well balanced. Basically, I didn't know when (and if) I had to take the events seriously and when not.

So we had a ridiculous trick to make the new house collapse, but of course nobody got hurt, and of course it was a good thing it happened so Kotoko got to live with Naoki. Ok, so this party is comedic.

The A class and the F class, I admit I never heard of such a thing and must say it is a funny idea to bring things to their extreme. The characters in those classes are perfect stereotypes, this makes it so exaggerate that it works. This part is comic.

Now, the most flawed element imho: characters' interaction between the leads. They just don't blend with the light surroundings. Naoki says terrible things, the most despicable words to Kotoko, and she is sad, gets depressed, cries inside her heart. She tries to raise up but she is hurt, severely. This part was well made, but what does this have to do with the generic cheerful feeling of the rest of the narration?
An example, if Kotoko had sad - but caricatural - reactions to Naoki's harsh word (ie. Risa in Lovely Complex, Tenma in School Rumble), then it would have worked well with the rest. But her sadness was true, almost infectious because we could empathize with her; she was right to be depressed because those words were depressing, doesn't matter which part you want to look them from.
That's why I think one of the two sides was out of place, not really mixing well with the other.

As for the brothers, they wanted to make them both despicable, and they did it wonderfully. Certainly this will pay off later, so not really a complaint. That is part of the play.

This show has potential, but needs to decide whether it wants to be more serious, or more hilarious. The mix as it has been done in episode 1, imho doesn't work.
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Old 2008-04-08, 13:42   Link #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Trying not to derail... it wasn't the plot of Lov*Com that I enjoyed so, yes that was by the numbers (though it *did* have a conclusive ending) .... it was the characterizations and the dialog that I enjoyed.

I suspect this is somewhat by the numbers (though the close call in ep 1 actually had me worried) but it will depend on whether the characters break trend, if Irie-kun is actually a bit complex (sometimes an ass, sometimes decent) and if Kotoko avoids a personality crash (hideous old-fashioned moral for girls).
Lov Com had wonder charactization some of the best iv seen in a while, which is why sky rocketed on my chart that and he had a conclusive ending. Do we think Itazura no kiss has the potential to pull of a Lov Com. Hard to tell from episode 1 if this is possible or just asking too much is the potential there? I think so but we will have to see how the writers execute the plot.
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Old 2008-04-08, 17:21   Link #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pellissier View Post
Naoki says terrible things, the most despicable words to Kotoko, and she is sad, gets depressed, cries inside her heart. She tries to raise up but she is hurt, severely. This part was well made, but what does this have to do with the generic cheerful feeling of the rest of the narration?
An example, if Kotoko had sad - but caricatural - reactions to Naoki's harsh word (ie. Risa in Lovely Complex, Tenma in School Rumble), then it would have worked well with the rest. But her sadness was true, almost infectious because we could empathize with her; she was right to be depressed because those words were depressing, doesn't matter which part you want to look them from.
That's why I think one of the two sides was out of place, not really mixing well with the other.
I think this is just her character. She gets hurt but that never makes her depressed for long. We see how she is able to bounce back on her feet rather than sulking (a more likable trait imo). Her character is naturally cheerful and it maybe her "bad head" (or extreme innocence) but from what it can see, she isn't the type to 1) hold grudges for long 2) let herself become depressed in order to get sympathy.
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Old 2008-04-08, 18:09   Link #92
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I'm thinking that its the realness of Kotoko against the unrealness of Naoki.

She's honest and has obvious feelings, while Naoki keeps it locked up behind his snob persona.

I think he'll fit more into the general feel of the show as she breaks down his shell.
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Old 2008-04-08, 18:17   Link #93
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Liked it but I'll wait to see where it goes.

Do the class letters represent how smart those people are? I mean, why did Naoki assume the Kotoko was dumb?

I think I said it before, but I'm mainly interested in this because of the idea that marriage will eventually happen. My main question is whether there will be a time-skip or whether they'll just gradually get into a deeper and deeper relationship... hmm.
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Old 2008-04-08, 18:32   Link #94
Vexx
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The classes are ranked like assignment grades "A""B"C""D"E""F" .. .
A==brightest/creative, F=="doyouwantfrieswiththat" or "yourwalletplease".

This used to be quite common in the US until the hilarious experiment called "mainstreaming"... its still used a lot in some sectors.

Naoki just currently sees Kotoko as a "F" girl - destined for something requiring no brainpower. She tried really hard to move up in the ranks though and certainly has some wisdom and personality, soooooo he's an idiot for not noticing those qualities: thus proving that one can be a "stupor genius".
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Old 2008-04-08, 18:45   Link #95
Seditary
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Well as far as I can tell, they've never had any interaction before she tried to confess to him, so he has no way of knowing about any of her qualities, she is to him, as you say, just an "F" girl.
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Old 2008-04-09, 05:14   Link #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZODDGUTS View Post
Also found Bokura ga Ita boring not to say it was bad but found it boring when watching it. I do like Lovely Complex yeah the series isn't original and a bit cliche but I love how the atmosphere of the manga is and how the characters act I mean where else in a shoujo series would you see a couple punch each other and laugh at it, the comedy in the series is well played. It's one of the very few shoujo series that makes me burst in laughter in every chapter.
I think some people are missing the point of Bokura ga Ita. Everything was hazy in the earlier episodes on purpose. And it certainly was more of a slice of life style show than anything with comedic elements blended in. The viewers basically had to navigate through it all alongside Nana and only near the VERY end did the true situation of Yano solved. It was like a long mystery on top of it being shoujo. The genre simply isn't for everyone and I don't think it's because of some intrinsic failings of the genre. I don't get people who hem Shounen and Sports anime into a corner that way either. All that said, I still think Bokura ga Ita is the shining example of how a good shoujo anime series should be: All exposition, tons of emotional drama, very precise dialogue. And the ending, IMO was as good as it could have been for a show that had to be trimmed off from the manga story. Not too many adaptations go away with a decisive feel like that. ef also, to me was a modern classic but not in the same way as Bokura ga Ita in the way of lengthy character interactions. Shinkai's stuff, it's all nice emotional tidbits of romance, but there's really not a lot of depth to them because they just are so... short.

As for the whole "Kotoko being OOC against Naoki" issue, I don't think that's the case at all. Just because you're visibly upset one second doesn't mean you condemn them for life. Look at it objectively and not emotionally, and she is either forced to be together with Naoki or she gets a second chance nobody would ever get, certainly not someone who is acclaimed to be dumb as her.

Really, I had next to NO expectations for Itazura, but I came away fairly impressed. It had a strange Kodomo no Omocha feel to it all for some reason. Just that light, airy feel of a shoujo show unlike something more dour and serious.
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Old 2008-04-09, 07:47   Link #97
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Ep 1

That was interesting. I think this has serious potential, but there's no way it can be judged on the first episode. I can say that there's one thing that it desperately needs to work, and that's a very, very strong lead female character. The fact that they've made Irie such an unlikable bastard right from the very first episode (and that they've relegated the likable male character in Kin to the sidelines) means that Kotoko pretty much has to carry the entire show on her own shoulders. This is shoujo after all... more than any other genre, if the characterization isn't solid, they'll lose the audience. I can see Irie following a fairly linear path as far as character development is concerned, but it'll be at least half the series before the audience even begins to consider the possibility that he mightn't be so bad after all. So we're basically following all of this through Kotoko's eyes, but if that view starts to go strange, I really think this show has very little chance of working.

So, why do I think this show has potential? Character interactions, of course. The leads for example... it's the age-old odd-couple formula, with a hefty amount of romantic tension thrown in. Let the barrage of insults and repartee begin! If they play their cards right, we could have a good old fashioned screwball comedy on our hands, and all I can say to that is "hell yeah!" Then there's the family stuff on the side (the mother going ape over having a new daughter is a winning card for comedy if I've ever seen one) and the whole class conflict going on in the school, which seemingly has a large influence on Irie. The family in particularly interests me greatly. The mother I've already mentioned (seriously, she's awesome), the little brother gets away with saying what the big brother is thinking, and there's something not quite right about the millionaire father being old friends with the chef that can't build his house right, which makes me think there's some sort of history there.

I really think all the cards are there for a very good comedy, they just have to use them. Yes, I somewhat rue the fact that they've gone over-the-top with Irie's bastardness and the plot in this ep was filled with so many conveniences that I cringed. But, damn, I don't think many writers could have put together a better premise for comedy even on their best day... now they just have to go through with it. (And when I say "premise", I'm not so much talking about 'two people under the same roof that hate each other' as I am about the whole dynamic between the six people in that house).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
That's my experience, too, even though I like a higher percentage of shoujo manga and anime than of any other genre. Bokura was (is, considering the manga) full of real emotion and subtle relationships. Lovely Complex just didn't do it for me. Style of humor, maybe.
Lovely Complex isn't a very smart anime, but it is a very entertaining anime. Bokura ga Ita, on the other hand, is a very smart anime, on top of being a very emotional anime. Very few series manage to be both at the same time, which is why I think so highly of it. Anyway, I think this anime has the potential to be a smart and entertaining anime... but that's just potential at the moment.
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I think some people are missing the point of Bokura ga Ita. Everything was hazy in the earlier episodes on purpose. And it certainly was more of a slice of life style show than anything with comedic elements blended in. The viewers basically had to navigate through it all alongside Nana and only near the VERY end did the true situation of Yano solved. It was like a long mystery on top of it being shoujo. The genre simply isn't for everyone and I don't think it's because of some intrinsic failings of the genre. I don't get people who hem Shounen and Sports anime into a corner that way either. All that said, I still think Bokura ga Ita is the shining example of how a good shoujo anime series should be: All exposition, tons of emotional drama, very precise dialogue. And the ending, IMO was as good as it could have been for a show that had to be trimmed off from the manga story. Not too many adaptations go away with a decisive feel like that. ef also, to me was a modern classic but not in the same way as Bokura ga Ita in the way of lengthy character interactions. Shinkai's stuff, it's all nice emotional tidbits of romance, but there's really not a lot of depth to them because they just are so... short.
Well put. Bokura ga Ita is among the premium shoujo drama titles, right up with Kare Kano. Shinkai's work... which is another genre to begin with... is driven much more by themes than it is by characters. With that said, I think you could extract more meaning from an hour of a Shinkai film than you could from twelve episodes of a lot of other romance series, but as far as character explorations are concerned, his type of storytelling doesn't really lend itself to doing that sort of thing exceptionally well. Time is one factor, but, in all honesty, I don't think that's what he's really focused on.
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Old 2008-04-09, 08:38   Link #98
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As far as I'm concerned, shoujo beats shounen in general. And light shoujo romance and light shounen romance normally aren't even in the same league. Then again, light shounen romance > shoujo melodrama but it would surprise me if this took the melodrama route later on.

Still, the jury is still out on this. I see the same problems coming I had with Paradise Kiss where the heroine's goals where too realistic not to think them through and too unrealistic not to predict an utter failure in real life (not to say: of life).

If Kotoko was going for the crown prince of dimension X then I would probably root for her. But she's going for a man made of flesh and blood who just happens to be way smarter than her. And something like that doesn't work out. At least not in form of a relationship I'd wish anybody. And that her love interest looks like an ass at the moment doesn't help. (But to turn his rude rejection into a positive statement: He's looking for a girl who's intellectual on his level. And I can actually only applaud him for that.)

So this is not gonna be a new a new Lovely Complex. Maybe only a new KimiKiss. Which would prove that even if you're playing three leagues below you can beat your opponent on a good day.

I finished both Lovely Complex and KimiKiss so I reluctantly predict at least a B- for this anime (C+ and below means dropped halfways.) But the competition on the shoujo field is numerous this season.
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Old 2008-04-09, 09:02   Link #99
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I liked the first episodes. My liking is based mostly on the characters. Kotoko isn't very book smart. But she seems to have a good dose of common sense which counts for a lot in my mind. I like how she handled her rejection. She's mourning the loss of her invented dream man which is a natural reaction. But she's not denying his faults and still head over heels in love with an illusion of him. As for Naoki, he definitely needs to work on his interpersonal skills. But he does have social compassion as a starting point. He proved that twice. First, when he agreed that Kotoko and her father who are near strangers to him should move into the house. Then later, when he offered money to the fund Kotoko's friends had started. Speaking of the friends, I liked them too. Comic relief, moral support, distinctive looks and personalities -- just what you need in a set of secondary characters.
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Old 2008-04-09, 10:25   Link #100
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I was waiting for this to be animated.

Nice first episode.
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