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Old 2008-10-10, 14:12   Link #741
Shiroth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2 View Post
Personally, stop thinking of novels when watching this anime. I did it and I liked the anime a lot.
I've been saying that all along when it comes to adaptations from manga or novels, though not many people can switch the fact that the material comes from somewhere, and they won't it be completely the same. Shame really.

I've heard it mentioned a few times on this page and it's got me wondering, seriously what's wrong with filler material?
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Old 2008-10-10, 14:20   Link #742
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Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
Lets not crucify JC Staff just yet. Lets see how 3rd episode turns out - if it is really a filler or maybe actually an episode with some important character development and plot advances...

I strongly suspect that by the end of the episode You-know-who will be introduced either way... But its the rest of episode I am concerned about, well lets just hope it is not a filler cause it would be sad to see things cut and rushed just for the sake of a filler...
I concur. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe ep 3 will rework the unused scenes or at least use their essence in different situations...instead of "4 friends go shopping, the 2 leads experiencing more of their respective LI wackyness/weirdness..."

And Tom Riddle might indeed pop at the end if not during episode 3, even in the 2 nd scenario:

Spoiler for speculations (and a few spoilers):
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Old 2008-10-10, 14:21   Link #743
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There's an impressive staff on this project: Mari Okada, Tatsuyuki Nagai, Kenichi Kasai (Ep. 2).....

I hope this comes together well, at least from an entertainment standpoint. Nevertheless, I think it's always safer to stay closer to a source.
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Old 2008-10-10, 14:23   Link #744
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Shiroth, filler may be ok with 24 episode series but not for 12 one... Due to time and they willingness to cover as much as possible they cramp a lot of stuff so every filler episode hits series very very hard.

You can use an ZnT as an example. While it doesn't have have many anime only episodes it creates a lot of filler parts in episodes due to wrongly placing focus and event build ups.
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Old 2008-10-10, 14:28   Link #745
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Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
Shiroth, filler may be ok with 24 episode series but not for 12 one... Due to time and they willingness to cover as much as possible they cramp a lot of stuff so every filler episode hits series very very hard.
I'm no manga or novel reader, though i don't see at all how filler material could harm the story --- heck i don't see how you can even have filler material in this series. As long as we get to know more about these characters, and have fun doing so along the way then i'll enjoy this series all the way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
You can use an ZnT as an example. While it doesn't have have many anime only episodes it creates a lot of filler parts in episodes due to wrongly placing focus and event build ups.
I found nothing at all wrong with those type of episodes on ZnT. They were very fun to watch, and that's what i wanted from the series. It's why i enjoyed the first season so much.
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Old 2008-10-10, 14:37   Link #746
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Like Novel volume 8 of ZnT? It was really marvelously done, I mean doing the what is considered to be best volume of ZnT in two minutes was really impressive. Too bad that quite a bit of people do not understand that screwing character development is actually good, right?

Seriously, the point is that it hurts character development or plot. It may come as surprise to you but ZnT was not only comedy it actually had serious stuff like discussing meaning of life and honor.

Fillers are ok if it is only comedy series, but not for something that tries to be more. ZnT was not just comedy series but JC Staff killed that off completely. Toradora isnt just comedy either but if they will start doing a comedy fillers then the character development and story will hurt quite a bit from it because for filler material you need time which you get through skipping rushing taking out important character scenes or plot moments...
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Old 2008-10-10, 14:50   Link #747
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Originally Posted by b0nyb0y View Post
To put it another way, ep. 2 was kinda okay. But it could have been better if they spread the plot out a bit, since there's a lot of character development going on in the manga. By doing so, they will make Toradora even more stand out, since it'll put more emphasis on the strength that Toradora has -- that it didn't stereotypically fall into a cliche kind of story, but has its own unique flavors. With the current pace they did in this episode, character depths were reduced down so much that it hurts...
I disagree strongly. I'm with stormy, I AM a novel reader and I emphasis again I think the pacing is great. I don't want to see stupid cliche shounen love comedy ploys and the whole Taiga calling Ryuji a stupid slave dog dragged out for more than 3 episodes - THAT would have hurt it more with how short people's attention span are now-a-days - a lot of peope already couldn't take the first episode of Taiga being "yet another Kugimiya tsundere" and were ready to drop it on a whim, Ryuji's plans (basketball, lunch etc) doesn't add any depths to either of them except to emphasis again that Ryuji is a sensitive guy and Taiga is a tsundere dizz, they were right to leave those on the chopping board.

I want them to start going on their level play ground after Ryuuji confess that he is the dragon. That's when ToraDora started being great in the novels and I applude them for moving straight into that area.
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Old 2008-10-10, 14:56   Link #748
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houkoholic, and I disagree with you completely. And I am a novel reader. I think that this dog calling is still needed at first because Taiga doenst seem the type to open herself so fast as it looks like she did in anime.

It was too fast, and it makes it weird that she didn't opened for her best friend but rather to Ryuuji with whom she spent only very short time...

To make the character development gradual instead of random jumps I think those parts were needed. I understand that you are biased and do not like tsuntsun part yet sometimes it is need to make character progression look more smooth and less rushed.
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Old 2008-10-10, 14:59   Link #749
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Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
houkoholic, and I disagree with you completely. And I am a novel reader. I think that this dog calling is still needed at first because Taiga doenst seem the type to open herself so fast as it looks like she did in anime.

It was too fast, and it makes it weird that she didn't opened for her best friend but rather to Ryuuji with whom she spent only very short time...
This is where your problem is --- you keep on linking the anime to the novel. Do what Stormy said, and just forget about the novel while watching this show.

Look at it this way, i'm no novel or manga reader of this series, and i didn't find a problem at all with Taiga's development in the second episode. I actually loved it, and i know i would even if i was reading the source material, because i treat them all as separate works.
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Old 2008-10-10, 15:01   Link #750
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Even if I were not a novel reader the actual shift of Taiga is still too rushed just like the whole rumor thing. It needs time for such thing to happened, it doesn't happen in a blink of en eye. You do not have to be a novel reader to see that a pacing is too high.
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Old 2008-10-10, 15:15   Link #751
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Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
Even if I were not a novel reader the actual shift of Taiga is still too rushed just like the whole rumor thing. It needs time for such thing to happened, it doesn't happen in a blink of en eye. You do not have to be a novel reader to see that a pacing is too high.
That all stems from your previous experience with the characters though. This has been my first exposure to the series and I'm not really seeing any problems. Sure things are happening pretty fast but hey sometimes life is like that. And honestly she hasn't really shifted that much in my eyes, I mean it ended with her kicking him and telling him to hurry up and make dinner.
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Old 2008-10-10, 15:16   Link #752
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The episode was fine for me for the first 9 or so minutes and I especially liked how they were managing to make Taiga look mischevious in ways that don't just involve a pummelling, such as her smug look to the Dragon-Man as she was going into Kushieda there's house. Everything was looking fine until about the 10 minute mark and then suddenly the episode just completely lost me. Hello cliche dialogue city and not knowing just what exactly is supposed to be transgressing. I feel I would know or care more if I felt I knew a little bit more about Taiga's character, but it looks like they are already going for the drama before we even get to know who everybody is. Seriously, I just could not follow a thing at all and suddenly now Taiga is no longer the hellcat from last episode and is all bubbly and ready to give a confession to some character I don't even know.

Now people say that it's because they skipped some manga material, but really I don't see how this matters as a lot of shows do that and have solid episodes throughout in spite of missing material. Just establish the characters properly and make your scenes flow better into one another and don't rely on cliche dialogue (what really killed it for me) and drama to move the scenes along and it should be fine.

Okay all of the above, plus the animation felt really budgety, and this is only the second episode. Corner cutting abound with a shot of Taiga standing completely motionless for upwards of 5 seconds and just a general lack of movement. In short, what Tora Tora Tora really needs is nothing short of a little jolt of inspiration that is visible to the audience in order for it to reach me. This episode I feel did not deliver that so there's really not much else to say. Well there is more to say I suppose, but I have to get to work so it will have to wait until later.
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Old 2008-10-10, 15:27   Link #753
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Seriously, I just could not follow a thing at all and suddenly now Taiga is no longer the hellcat from last episode and is all bubbly and ready to give a confession to some character I don't even know.
She worked up enough courage to put a love letter in his bag in the first episode, going all the way is not that far of stretch.

Plus you are just suppose to know that she has a thing for him, there's no logical reason why you have to "know" the entire character of Kitamura from the very beginning except because of your own personal story preference, these kinds of story telling can be recon back later as we get flash backs or other previous incidents.

Quote:
Okay all of the above, plus the animation felt really budgety, and this is only the second episode. Corner cutting abound with a shot of Taiga standing completely motionless for upwards of 5 seconds and just a general lack of movement. In short, what Tora Tora Tora really needs is nothing short of a little jolt of inspiration that is visible to the audience in order for it to reach me. This episode I feel did not deliver that so there's really not much else to say. Well there is more to say I suppose, but I have to get to work so it will have to wait until later.
You are confusing simple lines, framing shots to actual bad animation. Yes ToraDora in general has very simple lines, but a lot of the movements are very fluid. Also framing still shots for delivery purpose are not necessarily being cheap.
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Old 2008-10-10, 15:58   Link #754
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True. But I am only talking about the music. Quite frankly though, I don't think the way the credits are displayed should make or break an OP in the first place. I just ignore the credits and focus on the main visuals and song.....and while Toradora is fine on the first part, it utterly fails on the second. I'll be risking pulminary heart failure if I hear that thing again. >.>
Actually.. I now find the OP to be rather .. catchy.
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Old 2008-10-10, 15:58   Link #755
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Some douchebag on Youtube has loaded down the search engine with dozens upon dozens of fake profiles promising the latest subs for Clannad and Toradora. It really ticked me off because I kept searching and never came up with anything except another fake video with the same annoying song. Over and over and over.
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Old 2008-10-10, 16:00   Link #756
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considering i only read the very few first chapter of the manga and none of the novel, i'm not disappointed with the pacing/plot so far...

and i do know how it feel when you watch an adaptation while knowing the story from a novel, and ended up disappointed because its not an exact match/pacing, but try not to connect the event/pacing in novel and the anime, it will help you enjoy this series better
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Old 2008-10-10, 16:29   Link #757
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Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
I've been saying that all along when it comes to adaptations from manga or novels, though not many people can switch the fact that the material comes from somewhere, and they won't it be completely the same. Shame really.

I've heard it mentioned a few times on this page and it's got me wondering, seriously what's wrong with filler material?
Filler never really was such a bad word or even a bad thing in my mind...until I saw Naruto...

Ah but anyway aslong as it doesn't get in the way of character development or plot doesn't really matter to me if they put some in or not.
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Old 2008-10-10, 16:49   Link #758
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Can't believe that Toradora is just only good for one episode lol.

Index will be the next in the line to be slaughtered perhaps? It's inevitable, we're fucked!
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Old 2008-10-10, 16:50   Link #759
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I can't wait for the Ami to make her appearance. The manga just introduced her in chapter 12 and I can't read the novels so I don't know anything about her except for what a few people have said in this thread (>.<)
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Old 2008-10-10, 16:50   Link #760
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ok... I'm actually quite disappointed... at first it wasn't too bad... but they botched up Taiga's botched confession... and got rid of Ryuuji's inner monologue and the scenes that followed... ARG..
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