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Old 2008-09-06, 04:04   Link #121
Slick_rick
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Originally Posted by Witacume View Post
whoa whoa whoa Did i just read the past does not define us as people?
/facepalm
Moved the discussion to this thread since it seemed more appropriate to answer this question. No, I don't believe the past defines who a person is. People shouldn't be held back by their mistakes. Because in High school you were popular does that define who you are now? Because in High School you were a loser does not define you now? Because once when you were younger you stole something does that define you as a thief for the rest of your life?

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Anyway as for you and Slick Rick. The sum of human experience is nowhere near a complete understanding of the world. If the meaning in life is discovery, consider this: humans around the world are constantly achieving new discoveries. There is so much we don't know out there, and so much more to do--far more than one human could possibly achieve in a lifetime. And yet, if we pooled our knowledge--our thoughts and understanding--just think how much you could be learning every day. A world with universal human understanding is not closed at all--in fact, it is nearly limitless in potential.
What would motivate humans at this point? What purpose would the pooled knowledge serve? Would we be able to even get joy or a sense of achievement when we are in such a state?

Last edited by Slick_rick; 2008-09-06 at 04:23.
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Old 2008-09-06, 05:21   Link #122
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I still think the overall philosophy behind Code Geass is simple... The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

I could go on and on about little things though :-/ I'm afraid to get started.
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Old 2008-09-06, 11:19   Link #123
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The world purged by domination and countries taken over by stronger ones and by nature of the strongest rule all a mere pebble tries too and by gaining the power of the king it allows a turnaround to this even by the means of heading for the most oblivious path for just one smile.
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Old 2008-09-06, 11:49   Link #124
ashlay
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Originally Posted by killbethy View Post
I still think the overall philosophy behind Code Geass is simple... The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

I could go on and on about little things though :-/ I'm afraid to get started.
I mean it's not really most of these characters fault they're on a road to hell. Bad things just tend to happen to them no matter how hard they try to prevent these terrible chance occurances. >_>
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Old 2008-12-18, 02:35   Link #125
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One more point, i think if it hasn't been mentioned yet because i didn't have the time to read all posts, is something about the definition of world peace.

The emperor and Marianne wanted the world as ONE - timeless, forever, and w/o any individuality (i really wanted to see what would happen if their plan became successful... sigh..) -- problems is people won't be people w/o their uniqueness. sure, there'd be no war but people would be like a lump of callous cells.
I don't think he wanted lelouch as a successor. the reason why he doesn't value life anymore is because if Ragnarok was activated. there'd be nothing anymore. no status, no race, no CULTURE, no INDIVIDUALISM. -at least that's what I understood.

Schneizel thought of having world peace by subjecting people to fear. Which is, i think everybody would agree with me on this, utterly wrong. *question-why doesn't he value his life??? it was mentioned by his loyal subject, forgot his name.

Lelouch- only wanted peace for Nunally which as the series progressed, involved the whole world. *sigh-why did he die... or did he???? Lelouch i think understood the word HOPE most. What with Nunally being her sister and all. He used Zero as a symbol of hope for the people. Up until the last (most sad, tear-exhausting) episode, Zero's icon was used. And i think that hope is a path to world peace.

In the end, the effect of the series on me is that there total world peace is impossible. It is human nature to fight, get power, destroy and be selfish. These things we can't erase. But it is also human nature to hope and strive for happiness. Thus, we can't have world peace but we can take the path toward it. it's like travelling on an unfinished bridge where peace is on the other side. the scenery is great, the breeze is refreshing, you meet good people along the way with the same hopes but in the end, you couldn't get to the other side.
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Old 2008-12-24, 15:15   Link #126
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I know it has been established time and again that Brittainians are 'bad' and the Black Knights are 'good' but is this view somewhat simplistic? I know not all of them are 'bad' and not all Jpaanese are 'good' but does not mean that they have to get everyone involved in the conflict between Japan and the Empire?
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Old 2008-12-24, 15:46   Link #127
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I know it has been established time and again that Brittainians are 'bad' and the Black Knights are 'good' but is this view somewhat simplistic?
That's really a matter of opinion.
Good and Evil are concepts that don't exist for me, so I have no trouble with viewing the characters in Code Geass as "grey".
Lelouch is grey, Suzaku is grey and C.C. is grey. The same goes for Gino, Jeremiah and even Clovis.
The only "white" character, in my opinion, would be Euphemia (errr, and Arthur, of course).
But in the end, that's someone everyone has to decide for themselves.
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Old 2008-12-24, 20:22   Link #128
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Originally Posted by Guernsey View Post
I know it has been established time and again that Brittainians are 'bad' and the Black Knights are 'good' but is this view somewhat simplistic? I know not all of them are 'bad' and not all Jpaanese are 'good' but does not mean that they have to get everyone involved in the conflict between Japan and the Empire?
Is their some good Britannians? Yes, Milly, and Rivalz where good, but on average Britannian's where evil facist.

The world would be a better place without them.
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Old 2008-12-24, 21:04   Link #129
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Is their some good Britannians? Yes, Milly, and Rivalz where good, but on average Britannian's where evil facist. The world would be a better place without them.
How do you define "average"?
If we are talking about nobles and those who worked directly for the Empire, then yes, they usually weren't very nice - but that was mostly because of the system.
Of course that doesn't mean Charles was the only one at fault, but I really wouldn't call any of the characters "evil". Britannia as a whole was definitely a very dark shade of grey, but not pitch black.

"Evil" is always a matter of definition.
For example, many people would say that Clovis was evil. But even though I see how someone would come to this conclusion, it doesn't really make sense to me.
Not because I think he was the nicest guy around, but because whenever I hear "evil", I have to think about religion and something that consciously lives only for that single purpose: being evil.
The philosophy of Code Geass (as I understood it), however, includes the notion that every human being is striving for happiness, and that this natural yearning can be used to bring out the good in people, which means no one is completely "evil"... or "good", for the matter.

And then there was this "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" thing... I really liked that.
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Old 2008-12-24, 22:44   Link #130
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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
How do you define "average"?
If we are talking about nobles and those who worked directly for the Empire, then yes, they usually weren't very nice - but that was mostly because of the system.
Of course that doesn't mean Charles was the only one at fault, but I really wouldn't call any of the characters "evil". Britannia as a whole was definitely a very dark shade of grey, but not pitch black.

"Evil" is always a matter of definition.
For example, many people would say that Clovis was evil. But even though I see how someone would come to this conclusion, it doesn't really make sense to me.
Not because I think he was the nicest guy around, but because whenever I hear "evil", I have to think about religion and something that consciously lives only for that single purpose: being evil.
The philosophy of Code Geass (as I understood it), however, includes the notion that every human being is striving for happiness, and that this natural yearning can be used to bring out the good in people, which means no one is completely "evil"... or "good", for the matter.

And then there was this "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" thing... I really liked that.
Did Britannia worship Satan, and kill people with chainsaws while laughing?
No, but neither did they seem to mind that they where killing innocent women and children.

That to me shows that Britannia simply isn't worth saving.
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Old 2008-12-25, 08:33   Link #131
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Code Geass's philosphy is simple.

There isn't any right or wrong in this world. As mentioned above, it's trying to implement that there's grey in this world.

The terms good and evil are determined by an individual's beliefs.

Like what Bradley said, if you kill in a city, you're a murderer, a criminal. If you kill in war, you're a warrior in your country, you're a soldier doing his job in every perspective. Similarly, if you implement your beliefs, and they are accepted, you're "right". If people do not agree, it is wrong. If it doesn't impact greatly, you're just an eccentric bastard. If it makes a great impact, turns out the negative way, you're an evil bastard.

I have a feeling another anime was trying to portray this... coughdestinycough.
But it kinda failed, and Code Geass turned out beautifully.

Well anyway, that is all just me =p
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Old 2008-12-25, 12:24   Link #132
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Originally Posted by Neku View Post
Code Geass's philosphy is simple.

There isn't any right or wrong in this world. As mentioned above, it's trying to implement that there's grey in this world.

The terms good and evil are determined by an individual's beliefs.

Like what Bradley said, if you kill in a city, you're a murderer, a criminal. If you kill in war, you're a warrior in your country, you're a soldier doing his job in every perspective. Similarly, if you implement your beliefs, and they are accepted, you're "right". If people do not agree, it is wrong. If it doesn't impact greatly, you're just an eccentric bastard. If it makes a great impact, turns out the negative way, you're an evil bastard.

I have a feeling another anime was trying to portray this... coughdestinycough.
But it kinda failed, and Code Geass turned out beautifully.

Well anyway, that is all just me =p
You do know that Luciano Bradley was psychotic? He was the only person in the entire series with no redeeming qualities what so ever, he was pure evil.

What your stating is that War Crimes are okay, because its war, and Taniguchi, and Okouchi are not stating that.I don't think Okouchi, and Taniguchi are trying to tell people to join the army and indescriminatly slaughter people. They where obviously people that where wrong in this series like Bradley, and Charles.
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Old 2008-12-25, 12:31   Link #133
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You do know that Luciano Bradley was psychotic? He was the only person in the entire series with no redeeming qualities what so ever, he was pure evil.
Luciano Bradley was indeed psychotic and evil, but that doesn't make his statement any less true.
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Old 2008-12-25, 13:41   Link #134
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Luciano Bradley was indeed psychotic and evil, but that doesn't make his statement any less true.
So your saying that the Rape of Nanking was fine?
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Old 2008-12-25, 13:54   Link #135
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there is a very clear line between soldier and monster
its true that wars are made by politics and as such are almost always wrong in some way (few wars are completely legitemte)
but the soldiers who actually do the fighting are still human
granted that there is no universal standard for what is moral and what is not (while there are some things that anyone would agree to as a wrong thing)
but there is a saying who's origin is lost to me im afraid
"dont intentionally do things during wartime, that you know you wouldnt be able to live with during peace times"
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Old 2008-12-25, 14:25   Link #136
Maxmillian
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So your saying that the Rape of Nanking was fine?
And your calling the Black Knights angels
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
there is a very clear line between soldier and monster
its true that wars are made by politics and as such are almost always wrong in some way (few wars are completely legitemte)
but the soldiers who actually do the fighting are still human
granted that there is no universal standard for what is moral and what is not (while there are some things that anyone would agree to as a wrong thing)
but there is a saying who's origin is lost to me im afraid
"dont intentionally do things during wartime, that you know you wouldnt be able to live with during peace times"
Last time I check that only applies to tactical medics (which Kallen isn't BTW)
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Old 2008-12-25, 14:51   Link #137
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Originally Posted by Charred Knight View Post
Did Britannia worship Satan, and kill people with chainsaws while laughing?
No, but neither did they seem to mind that they where killing innocent women and children.
And that, in my eyes, makes them "grey".

Quote:
That to me shows that Britannia simply isn't worth saving.
Yes, but that's really a matter of opinion.
For example, I don't see why the soldiers who tried to kill Lelouch in the first episode would be worth saving. However, I feel very different about Clovis.
People can tell me he's an evil bastard and that he deserved what he got, and yes, I'll probably know how they came to that conclusion, but I will still disagree.
In the end, Lelouch thought the whole world was worth saving. I would not necessarily agree with that, but I definitely think he was a very admirable character... even though I'm aware that he, too, had his faults.


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Originally Posted by Neku View Post
Code Geass's philosphy is simple.

There isn't any right or wrong in this world. As mentioned above, it's trying to implement that there's grey in this world.

The terms good and evil are determined by an individual's beliefs.

Like what Bradley said, if you kill in a city, you're a murderer, a criminal. If you kill in war, you're a warrior in your country, you're a soldier doing his job in every perspective. Similarly, if you implement your beliefs, and they are accepted, you're "right". If people do not agree, it is wrong. If it doesn't impact greatly, you're just an eccentric bastard. If it makes a great impact, turns out the negative way, you're an evil bastard.

I have a feeling another anime was trying to portray this... coughdestinycough.
But it kinda failed, and Code Geass turned out beautifully.

Well anyway, that is all just me =p
But I definitely agree. *-*


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Originally Posted by Charred Knight View Post
What your stating is that War Crimes are okay, because its war, and Taniguchi, and Okouchi are not stating that.I don't think Okouchi, and Taniguchi are trying to tell people to join the army and indescriminatly slaughter people. They where obviously people that where wrong in this series like Bradley, and Charles.
Just because something makes someone a hero in the eyes of the people, it doesn't mean it's "okay".
I can adore Clovis and say that he had his good points without worshipping his every deed. In fact, I think someone should have kicked his butt as soon as he came to Area Eleven and started to change.
But he is still very "grey" to me, and I strongly disagree with everyone who thinks that he was not worth saving.
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Old 2008-12-25, 14:56   Link #138
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And your calling the Black Knights angels

Last time I check that only applies to tactical medics (which Kallen isn't BTW)
When did the Black Knight start raping and killing civilians? Must be a lost episode

The Black Knights are right in their hatred of Britannia, who has massacred innocence. I don't get why people think Okouchi is somehow stating that its in Charles right to kill people, and that somehow Britannia isn't wrong.

I think you guys should check out Turn A Gundam, and King Gainer to see how Okouchi actually writes villains who are sympathetic and portrayed as actually gray.
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Old 2008-12-25, 15:04   Link #139
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When did the Black Knight start raping and killing civilians? Must be a lost episode
Nah, they only betrayed the very person who was the key to their success.
And shortly before the war, many of the Japanese were definitely racist. Which is understandable, but definitely not "white".

Quote:
The Black Knights are right in their hatred of Britannia, who has massacred innocence. I don't get why people think Okouchi is somehow stating that its in Charles right to kill people, and that somehow Britannia isn't wrong.
Who thinks that?

Quote:
I think you guys should check out Turn A Gundam, and King Gainer to see how Okouchi actually writes villains who are sympathetic and portrayed as actually gray.
But he wasn't working on Code Geass by himself.
And... oh well. This is really a matter of opinion, but they had a reason to deliberately portray Clovis as "grey".
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Old 2008-12-25, 15:09   Link #140
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When did the Black Knight start raping and killing civilians? Must be a lost episode

The Black Knights are right in their hatred of Britannia, who has massacred innocence. I don't get why people think Okouchi is somehow stating that its in Charles right to kill people, and that somehow Britannia isn't wrong.

I think you guys should check out Turn A Gundam, and King Gainer to see how Okouchi actually writes villains who are sympathetic and portrayed as actually gray.
Re-watch the season finale where the Japanese were killing every innocent Britainnians because of Lelouch's uprising or the Narita battle to see how they're actions has caused. And no no one has a right to kill anyone, the Black Knights wanted Japan's freedom regardless on how many lives were lost. Britannia is no better of course but they're not ALL bad just the royal family (and there even sime there).

I wonder what happened to geass then? It seem like they wanted the Japanese to be the victims (which is why most of them survived). Turn A and Gainer to two great examples of his work (though the bad guys in King Gainer were just stupid and or misguided in Assuham's case)
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