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Old 2010-01-21, 12:59   Link #2961
K. Shiruto
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But didn't Ishiyama told them it was Arclight's mark what did Eve this?
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Old 2010-01-21, 13:01   Link #2962
shadowii
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in any case it seem ishiyama's goals were always less bring back the second more creating a new superior race. and the 666 comision have power in the whole world rather than just Japan? maybe they caused the bombing.
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Old 2010-01-21, 13:02   Link #2963
Ca12nag3
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were did he say this? Also then it would be a delayed effect since...well its a long time ago that we saw Arclight+Eve in the same place.
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Old 2010-01-21, 13:03   Link #2964
Magin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _kurusu_ View Post
More than Riru & Arclight? I don't think so, and that's the main reason he's experimenting with Cruz. As strong as Saten is, he can't compete with them. Riru has the strongest fragment stated by Disk, and Arclight has Zero.

And that's right, Ishiyama indeed knows about Saten having both the Eden cells and the tattoo/mark. He knew too that the fight would be over soon.
Disk stated Riru had the strongest fragment, but keep in mind no one knew about Saten's Fifth Wave (well, except for maybe 666). Something tells me that Saten is the real strongest Needless at this point

Quote:
Originally Posted by _kurusu_ View Post
Ignore them.

Someone in Needless said (I don't remember who), "only those who can understand all the fragments can use all them". In this story, there's only two characters with the intellect to use the whole power of Christ, and one of those two is Cruz, with Arclight being the second who can use all the fragments, but as Ishiyama stated, within every generation, only one holds the power.
and since the last time I checked, those who claim to be God and are usually on the bad side tend not to be the ones who are God (usually ending up dead instead)

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Originally Posted by Ca12nag3 View Post
Well i recon Aruka somehow figured it out in the Simeon HQ (thats prolly why she was so shocked).
She told them about how the missing link abilities can only be unlocked if you understand them, and Cruz understands them. Tho what this old geezer says is that every human has the potential powers but not the brains for it. Like with the 2 birds both got the same set of brains but use it differently thats why they evolve differently. So with Cruz able to understand the powers he should be able to use m yet he dont... well prolly cause he never tried and is convinced he has no powers, -> he always relies on others. Tho when in imediate mortal danger he seems to be able to. With the explosion and with the fall of the cliff or when pulling up Eve (she ways more then him now usualy you cant lift more then your own weight if your just a regular untrained human.)
With Aruka cutting his arm off well thats cause he prolly couldnt believe his sister would be evil like this so he didnt protect himself.

Btw about those great minds, both Jesus Christ and Budha preformed miracles, (Alexander the great is a tad different since hes a warlord but o well). So if Cruz is 1 of these guys then he can use all powers like the 2nd.
Outside of his intelligence, his "immortality" didn't actually manifest until after Aruka killed him and then was brought back by disk... which does correspond to Christ dying and being resurrected, and you can generally say that when he ascended to heaven, it's another way to say he's become immortal... so really, until Cruz was killed, he was just a very smart person among a bunch of rather idiotic (but powerful) Needless
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Old 2010-01-21, 13:09   Link #2965
K. Shiruto
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If the cause of Eve's current condition is Arclight, then I'm not surprised. Afterall, his left eye and a part of his chest rejected the apple. It seems Arclight's Eden seed is rather unstable due to that (remember he himself said his body would not withstand much more). Therefore and following the logic, the antidote for this would be another Eden apple but a stable one.
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Old 2010-01-21, 13:13   Link #2966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowii View Post
in any case it seem ishiyama's goals were always less bring back the second more creating a new superior race. and the 666 comision have power in the whole world rather than just Japan? maybe they caused the bombing.
A new superior race? Like the Adam Cyclops? I see what you did there...
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Old 2010-01-21, 14:04   Link #2967
Sekirei07
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AC-80 is just the backup to what Ishiyama said about them continuing the AP.

It's true Riru is stated to have the strongest fragment, but that does not = strongest Needless.

Key example: Blade at one point learned Saten's fragment, was he the strongest than? nope

If one person has a knife and the other has a gun, who would win? If the person with the gun doesn't know how to take the safety off, than who would win?

Mental and physical attributes are key in who is the strongest Needless. Saten has perfect mastery over his own fragment as well as natural super human strength and defense.

Add in The Second's arm, which pushes his fragment beyond the realm of possibility according to physics (since he can release an enormous amount of thermal energy without the requirement of absorbing it first, thus going beyond the realm of his fragments natural abilities)

Hell, the fact that he created energy from nothing is by definition the very realm of God-like power.
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Old 2010-01-21, 14:54   Link #2968
K. Shiruto
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Looks like right now there're two Adam projects ongoing simultaneously.

The one Ishiyama began and still continues, and the one Saten is plotting with Cruz as his human container.
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Old 2010-01-21, 17:38   Link #2969
Sekirei07
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thats a bit far fetched. It seems more like Saten is a by produced of a different Adam project where they made use of The Second's body parts rather than just his cells.

Besides what more can they do to Cruz than let nature take its course? He already has the eden cells thanks to Eve
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Old 2010-01-21, 17:55   Link #2970
K. Shiruto
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If Saten was a different type of A.P he would have the Zero fragment, but he doesn't, he's something completely different. What he is, right now is currently unknown.

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Originally Posted by Sekirei07 View Post
Besides what more can they do to Cruz than let nature take its course? He already has the eden cells thanks to Eve
Ok, he has the Eden cells, but just with that is not enough.

Saten wanted something, something he thought Eve had: Byakugou.
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Old 2010-01-21, 17:58   Link #2971
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the 2nd didnt need a Byakugou toy :P so if Cruz is the new God then even if you have the toy it wont do him any good.
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Old 2010-01-21, 18:09   Link #2972
K. Shiruto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ca12nag3 View Post
the 2nd didnt need a Byakugou toy :P so if Cruz is the new God then even if you have the toy it wont do him any good.
And...? Isn't it obvious this whole power The Second had was not a birth gift? Think about it just a moment, Christ only appeared for the first time after the war.

Even if Cruz is his reincarnation, he won't have any power. It's not something gained from birth, it's a condensation of powers Christ acquired somehow unknown. That's why the device from wich the Zero fragment comes was made, as it's the only way to gain back, now owned by many needless, all the fragments that form such condensation of huge power.
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Old 2010-01-21, 18:13   Link #2973
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Your to much focused on the 2nd, remember what the old geezer said about Jesus,Budha,Alexander the great. They all were exceptional by birth! so they are born with it. Cruz the same if he is it.
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Old 2010-01-21, 18:18   Link #2974
K. Shiruto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ca12nag3 View Post
Your to much focused on the 2nd, remember what the old geezer said about Jesus,Budha,Alexander the great. They all were exceptional by birth! so they are born with it. Cruz the same if he is it.
Ok, I already know that, but in a era where only the strong survive, with just intellect you go nowhere, you need a fragment too.

Did Jesus gained the inmortality from birth? Did Alexander gained such power and army from birth? That's what I mean.

For anyone who uses the logic, there's no way the 2nd had all the fragments from the day he was born. Something big happened that made him a being equal to God, and that obviously happened during the war.
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Old 2010-01-21, 18:22   Link #2975
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i lol at fragments since they are only (fragments). Remember that Jesus did all kinds of miracles acording to the bible. The 2nd ->2nd christ, also did many different miracles. Now thats not fragmentized its a full power. So if Cruz is that kind of person he doesnt need a fragment.
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Old 2010-01-21, 18:33   Link #2976
K. Shiruto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ca12nag3 View Post
i lol at fragments since they are only (fragments). Remember that Jesus did all kinds of miracles acording to the bible. The 2nd ->2nd christ, also did many different miracles. Now thats not fragmentized its a full power. So if Cruz is that kind of person he doesnt need a fragment.
Yeah, miracles whose source were the fragments. Disk stated crystal clear: He was considered the first and the strongest needless because he could use all of them. He had the intellect to use tenths, hundred of fragments. That same intellect is shown by Cruz, proving he could use all of them too.

It's obviously not the case of Blade, who wasn't called a failure by Disk for nothing, and it's not too the case of Arclight (another failed project), who has great wisdom but an unstable body and a big inner malice.

Laugh at fragments as single if you want, but don't underestimate the Zero fragment, and don't forget for what was made.
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Old 2010-01-21, 18:47   Link #2977
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonkid11 View Post
Oldman:You...know Jesus right?
Oldman:The Buddha,Alexander the great(I don't know what to say in the third bubble)In history,there is always someone who possessed great power who appear from miracle
Oldman:They are called god...all because one reason,they can control power lies within their brain freely.Yes...only the chosen one can use them...Even through it is a power that everyone can use
There it is, humans already have the power but the brain cant access it, i asume the fragments are no more then alterations to the brain so 1 can use that bit of power, a God would be limitless. Anyways there it is so its with birth.
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Old 2010-01-21, 18:58   Link #2978
Sekirei07
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maybe they are just trying to figure out the formula that was what created the Needless and everyone is just mere test subjects, including Cruz.

I don't think either Saten or Ishiyama knows full well how Eden cells will react with Cruz, they just want to know what the reaction is for research purposes. But if in fact it turns out that Cruz really is the key to all of it, they will instantly take him. I mean honestly up tell now they could have grabbed Cruz at any moment.

Interesting, I just thought of a way Aruka could fight against Saten (at least pre-fifth wave)

Aruka can control molecular vibrations, so in theory if she were to create a vibration that was the complete opposite of the fourth wave she could completely nullify it. Just like how when sound waves of the same wavelength stack with each other, but sound waves of different wavelengths mess up each other. But it is still somewhat unlikely that Aruka could beat Saten, especially now.
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Old 2010-01-21, 19:05   Link #2979
K. Shiruto
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^But you forget Cruz is Saten's human subject, not Ishiyama's.

And no, it's not with birth. Not the 2nd, nor the needless were born with their powers. Everything comes with a logical reason, not magically. Those great minds Ishiyama named, the only power they had from birth was their intellect. All the things they did, all they gained, it come through the use of that intellect.

Last edited by K. Shiruto; 2010-01-21 at 19:27.
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Old 2010-01-21, 19:34   Link #2980
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I wonder what'd happen if they injected the Eden's Seeds into Cruz. Do you think he'd have the powers that Ishiyama has or if there'd be some adverse effects? Or does anyone have any idea of what Saten wants to do to Cruz next? As of right now, Saten can do anything he wants to Cruz since no one there can stop them... unless someone appears to save him (Aruka? I don't think so but she does want him to live and knew where he was earlier that day...)
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