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Old 2010-10-27, 17:22   Link #5801
Kon the Magnificent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xacual View Post
I thought ANn's choker was Blade's though?
If I remember correctly, I heard Blade dies. Well, what if when he does, when his choker finally comes off, Cruz/ANn, puts it on in remeberence of him?
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Old 2010-10-27, 17:37   Link #5802
Soji
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^More than anything else is that choker that gave the idea of Blade's dead.
But if I remember correctly it seems that AnN mentions something like that to Cain during Needless 1,5(if anyone remembers or knows more can confirm this)
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Old 2010-10-27, 21:23   Link #5803
Avvesione
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Well, we know for sure that ANn is related to Cruz somehow and probably related to Blade and Eve, as well. Another thing that could help with the whole ANn + Cruz = something theory is that ANn is associated with light and wants to help Cruz. That puts support in the theory that she was the one who provided the gentle hands of light during the PF Blast to save Cruz. Additionally, she could have been the one who stopped Aruka in the Third Shelter. Aruka seemed to know who was responsible for stopping her from killing Cruz a second time. Aruka was also there when Mengroze performed the surgery on Cruz (from Cruz's memory), so if that surgery was related to ANn, then maybe Aruka knew ANn as well and knew she'd protect Cruz from being killed again.

If you put all those things together it gets all jumbled and messy. Could've been something like Aruka had a little sister that was seperated into Cruz and ANn but ANn became the spirit of Cruz (or was somehow lost). Perhaps losing the little sister and being replaced with a worthless Cruz caused her to hate him. And then ANn was somehow activated by Eve in the Third Shelter after Cruz initially died. If ANn was Cruz's spirit or something, then that could explain the memories of nice Aruka protecting her at a young age. And possibly Aruka saw trap-Cruz which reminded her of that younger sibling which gave her the idea to save her from Hatfield by opening up the passage in the Ice Wall. But yeah, there's a lotta assumptions and patchwork but that's just tossing ideas out there.

Also, since we're on the topic of Aruka, I was curious if anyone saw the 12th (and final) BD special. Had something I never thought I'd see in Needless lol...
Spoiler:
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Old 2010-10-27, 23:03   Link #5804
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Spoiler for in reponse to BD pics:
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Old 2010-10-27, 23:11   Link #5805
Kon the Magnificent
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Originally Posted by Avvesione View Post
Well, we know for sure that ANn is related to Cruz somehow and probably related to Blade and Eve, as well. Another thing that could help with the whole ANn + Cruz = something theory is that ANn is associated with light and wants to help Cruz. That puts support in the theory that she was the one who provided the gentle hands of light during the PF Blast to save Cruz. Additionally, she could have been the one who stopped Aruka in the Third Shelter. Aruka seemed to know who was responsible for stopping her from killing Cruz a second time. Aruka was also there when Mengroze performed the surgery on Cruz (from Cruz's memory), so if that surgery was related to ANn, then maybe Aruka knew ANn as well and knew she'd protect Cruz from being killed again.

If you put all those things together it gets all jumbled and messy. Could've been something like Aruka had a little sister that was seperated into Cruz and ANn but ANn became the spirit of Cruz (or was somehow lost). Perhaps losing the little sister and being replaced with a worthless Cruz caused her to hate him. And then ANn was somehow activated by Eve in the Third Shelter after Cruz initially died. If ANn was Cruz's spirit or something, then that could explain the memories of nice Aruka protecting her at a young age. And possibly Aruka saw trap-Cruz which reminded her of that younger sibling which gave her the idea to save her from Hatfield by opening up the passage in the Ice Wall. But yeah, there's a lotta assumptions and patchwork but that's just tossing ideas out there.

Also, since we're on the topic of Aruka, I was curious if anyone saw the 12th (and final) BD special. Had something I never thought I'd see in Needless lol...
Spoiler:
Yeah, that's what I was getting at. What if Cruz was originally a girl? Everything until now would make so much sense. His ability to look and act as a girl so naturally. The way he's gradually looking more like a girl.

Well...also Mengroze experiment on Cruz. We know all about how Gido twisted his thinking, what if instead of bringing two people together, he had split them apart, into Cruz and ANn. Their original form must have been something. What that something was I don't know, but if Cruz was originally a girl, and possibly a powerful needless, he may have had a stigmata.

Let's say this is true, and now let's say Cruz somehow shows a needless power or something new when fighting Monster Girl Number XX. This may give Saten enough reason to take Cruz captive when they return to their time, and in my hope, Aruka will come to his rescue.

That would make for a great arc, Aruka saving the younger brother/sister she killed
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Old 2010-10-28, 01:56   Link #5806
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Originally Posted by Magin View Post
Spoiler for in reponse to BD pics:
Yup. It's nice to see her outside of that angry/yelling/serious expression she always has. She's an interesting character although she hasn't been shown in the series a whole lot. Interestingly, she was the 4th most popular Needless character in the poll on Imai Kami's website (behing Eve, Yamada, and Mio).

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Originally Posted by Kon the Magnificent View Post
Yeah, that's what I was getting at. What if Cruz was originally a girl? Everything until now would make so much sense. His ability to look and act as a girl so naturally. The way he's gradually looking more like a girl.

Well...also Mengroze experiment on Cruz. We know all about how Gido twisted his thinking, what if instead of bringing two people together, he had split them apart, into Cruz and ANn. Their original form must have been something. What that something was I don't know, but if Cruz was originally a girl, and possibly a powerful needless, he may have had a stigmata.

Let's say this is true, and now let's say Cruz somehow shows a needless power or something new when fighting Monster Girl Number XX. This may give Saten enough reason to take Cruz captive when they return to their time, and in my hope, Aruka will come to his rescue.

That would make for a great arc, Aruka saving the younger brother/sister she killed
It certainly is an interesting theory. I'd have some questions about it before I started to buy into it myself, but I do hope to see something interesting when they get out of the memory world. I'm kinda curious if there'll be some sparks between Saten and Aruka, especially after what happened in Third Shelter and with Saten working for Ishiyama.

There hasn't been any definate hints for what will happen in the next arc, but I have to think it'll involve searching for Gido paired up with repairing Disk's body. If Gido did survive the PF Blast (and I'm going to assume he did), I wonder if he returned to the city for any reason.
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Old 2010-10-28, 06:44   Link #5807
Soji
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Originally Posted by Avvesione View Post
Well, we know for sure that ANn is related to Cruz somehow and probably related to Blade and Eve, as well. Another thing that could help with the whole ANn + Cruz = something theory is that ANn is associated with light and wants to help Cruz. That puts support in the theory that she was the one who provided the gentle hands of light during the PF Blast to save Cruz. Additionally, she could have been the one who stopped Aruka in the Third Shelter. Aruka seemed to know who was responsible for stopping her from killing Cruz a second time. Aruka was also there when Mengroze performed the surgery on Cruz (from Cruz's memory), so if that surgery was related to ANn, then maybe Aruka knew ANn as well and knew she'd protect Cruz from being killed again.

If you put all those things together it gets all jumbled and messy. Could've been something like Aruka had a little sister that was seperated into Cruz and ANn but ANn became the spirit of Cruz (or was somehow lost). Perhaps losing the little sister and being replaced with a worthless Cruz caused her to hate him. And then ANn was somehow activated by Eve in the Third Shelter after Cruz initially died. If ANn was Cruz's spirit or something, then that could explain the memories of nice Aruka protecting her at a young age. And possibly Aruka saw trap-Cruz which reminded her of that younger sibling which gave her the idea to save her from Hatfield by opening up the passage in the Ice Wall. But yeah, there's a lotta assumptions and patchwork but that's just tossing ideas out there.
I have to say make sense,what you wrote.
Now ,I want to be clear that this is just a wild guess..but:
What if Aruk has joined its simeon because of the events of her littel sister?(always if the theory becomes truth).
Assume that Simeon rapidly taken this little girl (probably because she was a powerful Needless...missing link or stigmata needless)therefore suitable for their project...obviously Aruka will have attempted to protect her littel sister but failing in doing so(we know that Saten and Arclight can beat her).
Now If this is true would explain the fixation of Aruka for power.
Now suppose Arclight's convinced Aruka to join Simeon and convince her that her sister would remain the same only much stronger...I mean I doubt that Aruka could stand against something like that,especially if she wanted to survive with her littel sister.Now if the experiment was used to create AnN fail and for this failure Cruz's was born (I mean we know that AnN is the result the union of Ap +Ep,so it is not impossible to change gender) without Needless power and AnN side sealed within him in a dormant state. Now probably Aruka wanted to treat his new litte brother like was the littel sister..and probably for this reason, she had help from Mengroze(or another)to seal the memories of Cruz regarding the experiment and that she was part fo Simeon now and perhaps AnN will have those memories .The hatred is probably come out over time,because Aruka seeing Cruz remembered her failure and Of course the weakness of Cruz not helping for nothing in this situation(with the mentality of the power Aruka have)
Now returning to the events of third shelter Saten probably has a hunch about this and therefore he made sure Eve's resurrect Cruz's that way with the results that we know.
If I'm right this action is the trigger to the awakening of AnN side(as you mentioned earlier).
Therefore Cruz is just becoming what he must be.and probably the final step will be the merger of the two sides(Cruz and AnN).
Obviously this is only a hypothesis but it would be interesting if true especially if Cruz/AnN regains all the memories lost.
Of course if all this comes true


Quote:
Also, since we're on the topic of Aruka, I was curious if anyone saw the 12th (and final) BD special. Had something I never thought I'd see in Needless lol...
Spoiler:
pity in the manga wee never see anything like this...she much more cute when she act like this

Last edited by Soji; 2010-10-28 at 09:21.
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Old 2010-10-28, 09:44   Link #5808
Leidolfr
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I could pass one by private message the link in the omake in RAW needless?, The special number 12?, Is that it is the last thing left to do, besides waiting to come out subtitles , I would really appreciate it .
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Old 2010-10-28, 12:04   Link #5809
Ynot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kon the Magnificent View Post
If I remember correctly, I heard Blade dies. Well, what if when he does, when his choker finally comes off, Cruz/ANn, puts it on in remeberence of him?
I doubt it would be that easy. The choker is not big enough to slide it over your head unless you have doppelganger to aid you, and when looking at one of the chapters in vol 0 it seems ANn didn't have doppelganger. She had her hand bandaged at the end.
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Old 2010-10-28, 12:23   Link #5810
Xacual
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It's always possible that if the wearer of the choker dies it unlocks.
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Old 2010-10-28, 12:25   Link #5811
Soji
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Originally Posted by Ynot View Post
I doubt it would be that easy. The choker is not big enough to slide it over your head unless you have doppelganger to aid you, and when looking at one of the chapters in vol 0 it seems ANn didn't have doppelganger. She had her hand bandaged at the end.
Now that I think about..is possible there are more identical choker.
think about the choerk of young Blade would be too small for the Blade that we know,so at least once they a to replace this choker which means that there is at least another one.
Or since we know something happens to Blade's body and when replaced and there is a double,probably the choker that AnN will have.(the smallest)
Or at least these are two possibilities
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Old 2010-10-28, 13:01   Link #5812
Ynot
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^ but why would anyone want to put back a bigger sized choker? It would be easier to just leave the damn thing off, right?

I kind of always assumed the choker was a simple solid ring of metal without any kind of locking mechanism because I've never seen a seam or anything wich could indicate some sort of opening mechanism.

Interesting to note is how Eve had a choker in the flashback in third shelter and she didn't have one in memory world. BUT she didn't have doppelganger back then. So this would mean the choker does have an unlocking mechanism, but then why is Blade still wearing his choker? He enjoyed having an iron collar? Or something else?

vol 7, page 160 to see Eve with a choker and
chapter 78 page 5 to see Eve without a choker.


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Originally Posted by Leidolfr View Post
I could pass one by private message the link in the omake in RAW needless?, The special number 12?, Is that it is the last thing left to do, besides waiting to come out subtitles , I would really appreciate it .
Did you know alexandrain08 has a lot of nice youtube vids
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Old 2010-10-28, 14:21   Link #5813
Avvesione
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Originally Posted by Ynot View Post
^ but why would anyone want to put back a bigger sized choker? It would be easier to just leave the damn thing off, right?

I kind of always assumed the choker was a simple solid ring of metal without any kind of locking mechanism because I've never seen a seam or anything wich could indicate some sort of opening mechanism.

Interesting to note is how Eve had a choker in the flashback in third shelter and she didn't have one in memory world. BUT she didn't have doppelganger back then. So this would mean the choker does have an unlocking mechanism, but then why is Blade still wearing his choker? He enjoyed having an iron collar? Or something else?

vol 7, page 160 to see Eve with a choker and
chapter 78 page 5 to see Eve without a choker.
Vol 7 page 166 is a better image since she's bandaged up and there's a clear view of the collar. Same with 167.

Not sure why you're bringing up Chapter 78 page 5 that she doesn't have a collar. I think her shirt is covering up most of the collar but there still is a black thing around her neck in that picture as well as the following one (which is more clear). I'll admit the collar does look smaller but that might've just been the way they were drawn at the times (30 months or 2.5 years apart).

But regardless, I do like the collar discussion. So far the only ones with collars are Arclight, Blade, Eve, ANn and Adam Cyclops (all are either named Adam or Neuschwanstein). Saten has his bandaged neck which might be related and the Second had a scar around his neck.

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Originally Posted by Ynot View Post
Did you know alexandrain08 has a lot of nice youtube vids
That's probably the best way to view those specials, although he doesn't have them all and they're all raws. However, I'm sure you can find the first few easily online if you look around. I laughed at how Cruz could tell it was Aruka behind the mask.
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Old 2010-10-28, 14:49   Link #5814
Soji
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Originally Posted by Ynot View Post
^ but why would anyone want to put back a bigger sized choker? It would be easier to just leave the damn thing off, right?
God point.
I agree totally here, the only thing that comes to my mind another person put the choker back or a bigger version...maybe Gido, but the question that remains is why?
Quote:
I kind of always assumed the choker was a simple solid ring of metal without any kind of locking mechanism because I've never seen a seam or anything wich could indicate some sort of opening mechanism.
Right...seems forged on the owner but in this case might constringed the neck of the owner after a few years
Quote:
Interesting to note is how Eve had a choker in the flashback in third shelter and she didn't have one in memory world. BUT she didn't have doppelganger back then. So this would mean the choker does have an unlocking mechanism, but then why is Blade still wearing his choker? He enjoyed having an iron collar? Or something else?
if I remember correctly during the special chapter where Eve the bath she no has choker on.
I think someone had posted the page here on the topic...but I do not remember how many pages ago
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Old 2010-10-28, 14:59   Link #5815
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The choker bugs me a lot. How can Adam N wear Blade's choker if we go by the fact that chunk metal can't be removed unless you know, *chop*, nor it can be relocated? It makes me wonder if there's a big scar around her neck

As for Eve's choker, there's no mistery. She melted, and reconstructed without it.

Last edited by K. Shiruto; 2010-10-28 at 15:13.
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Old 2010-10-28, 15:11   Link #5816
Soji
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^think about it ,there are currently three equal choker.
AnN who appeared before Cruz,Blade in the real world and the young Blade in this memory world and as we know all three should have the same choker.
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Old 2010-10-28, 17:43   Link #5817
Ynot
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Originally Posted by Soji View Post
Right...seems forged on the owner but in this case might constringed the neck of the owner after a few years
You know...that wouldn't be such a bad method to ensure the experiments didn't get too independent. "Do as we say or we won't change your choker into a bigger size when the time comes"

Makes me wonder why the scientists chose a choker in the first place. Why not implant a chip or give the subjects a tattoo of some kind? Not permanent enough maybe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by _kurusu_ View Post

As for Eve's choker, there's no mistery. She melted, and reconstructed without it.
That would be logical and I thought the same, but when looking at page 5 of chapter 78 again I started having serious doubts. The difference between that page and the other one(vol7 page 160) is just so big I couldn't believe the one in chap 78 is also a metal choker. It looks a lot more like a leather strap to me. There's also the last page of chapter 77, where she absolutely doesn't have a choker or anything like it, but that could just be a mistake from the author.

Going with the general consensus it's her choker, it's a good thing Eve started to melt cause if she had grown just a bit more that thing would've suffocated her. I was trying to find her choker lying on the floor among the blood puddles after she melted, but didn't see it. I wonder if it'll be shown/mentioned again.
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Old 2010-10-28, 18:05   Link #5818
Sayo A.
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Originally Posted by Kon the Magnificent View Post
What if Cruz was actually ANn at one point? What if it was Mengroze was the one who separated them? What if the reason why Cruz was so girly was because he was actually a girl in the first place? What if the reason why he doesn't have the choker is beacuse when Mengroze separated them into two sepaearate beings, the choker went with ANn?
Unlikely (at least that Mengroze would have had anything to do with it). Here's Cruz at a much younger age than when he was being treated by Mengroze. (From volume 6, in case you're wondering why you haven't seen it before.)
Spoiler for image:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kon the Magnificent View Post
If I remember correctly, I heard Blade dies. Well, what if when he does, when his choker finally comes off, Cruz/ANn, puts it on in remeberence of him?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soji View Post
^More than anything else is that choker that gave the idea of Blade's dead.
But if I remember correctly it seems that AnN mentions something like that to Cain during Needless 1,5(if anyone remembers or knows more can confirm this)
No one knows what happens to Blade, and AFAIK ANn never mentions him. On the other hand, Adam C was surprised to discover ANn was female (see this post), implying that she was expecting to find Adam Series No.079 - that is, Blade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _kurusu_ View Post
The choker bugs me a lot. How can Adam N wear Blade's choker if we go by the fact that chunk metal can't be removed unless you know, *chop*, nor it can be relocated? It makes me wonder if there's a big scar around her neck
Well, of course that's no problem if ANn = Blade + Eve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by _kurusu_ View Post
As for Eve's choker, there's no mistery. She melted, and reconstructed without it.
I agree with you on this one. You can't wear a choker if you don't have a neck...
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Old 2010-10-28, 18:08   Link #5819
Avvesione
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Originally Posted by Ynot View Post
That would be logical and I thought the same, but when looking at page 5 of chapter 78 again I started having serious doubts. The difference between that page and the other one(vol7 page 160) is just so big I couldn't believe the one in chap 78 is also a metal choker. It looks a lot more like a leather strap to me. There's also the last page of chapter 77, where she absolutely doesn't have a choker or anything like it, but that could just be a mistake from the author.

Going with the general consensus it's her choker, it's a good thing Eve started to melt cause if she had grown just a bit more that thing would've suffocated her. I was trying to find her choker lying on the floor among the blood puddles after she melted, but didn't see it. I wonder if it'll be shown/mentioned again.
Yeah, I decided to go back and look at the last page of 77 and there isn't anything on Eve's neck. If you go back 2 pages you can see that black strap there so it must've been a mistake. Keep in mind that was the chapter that was cut short due to kidney stones so it might've been a little rushed and not how he originally intended.

Hopefully we'll get some of our choker questions answered when we see what happens to Blade and Eve at the end of this arc.
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Old 2010-10-28, 18:37   Link #5820
Avvesione
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sayo A. View Post
Unlikely (at least that Mengroze would have had anything to do with it). Here's Cruz at a much younger age than when he was being treated by Mengroze. (From volume 6, in case you're wondering why you haven't seen it before.)
Spoiler for image:
The only things I can say to that is what I mentioned in an earlier post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avvesione View Post
If ANn was Cruz's spirit or something, then that could explain the memories of nice Aruka protecting her at a young age.
Either that or they altered the memories so that Cruz thought he was there but really Aruka was protecting the 'little sister' or whatever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _kurusu_ View Post
As for Eve's choker, there's no mistery. She melted, and reconstructed without it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sayo A. View Post
I agree with you on this one. You can't wear a choker if you don't have a neck...
Eve doesn't have a collar in the serialized manga but she did have one in Needless Zero II. There's also various images with her wearing collars as well, so I thought I'd link a few. Not saying that these images are important to the story but they're there just for fun.
Spoiler:
Also, I guess I missed it in one of my last posts but Riru also wears a collar, although it looks more like the black band that Ynot brought up in Chapters 77 and 78. She had one on in Zero II and in the serialized manga as well (so all 3 outfits have collars, 4 if you count her sleeping with Kuchinashi as one, too).

Seems like everyone has something that covers their necks, be it collar or clothes. Makes it hard to tell sometimes if there's something there or not.
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