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Old 2011-03-28, 17:44   Link #6601
K. Shiruto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowii View Post
^

Cruz was still in boys close when they first met that hasnt changed
Yes, he was in male clothes.

And you're right, that was their first meeting... before the events that took place in the past. Truth is Cruz met Blade, Eve and Gido in the past, and the three met him as a female, and what was their first official meeting has become now their second.

The clothes don't matter too, because just like a guy can dress like a girl, a girl can dress like a guy too. No matter what happens now, because of what happened in the past, Blade, Eve and Gido are aware Cruz has been always a girl in their minds.

And some of you said the future wouldn't change. Now wait till Kafka shows us how he avoided his fate

So let's see, the things from the future that were altered in the past...

Cruz: Always a girl for Blade, Eve and Gido. A guy for the rest.

Kafka: Escaped his death.

Last edited by K. Shiruto; 2011-03-28 at 17:57.
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Old 2011-03-28, 17:51   Link #6602
Robotech Master
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Originally Posted by _kurusu_ View Post
Yes, he was in male clothes, but a girl can dress with male clothes too. Fact is Blade, Eve and Gido met Cruz as a female in the past 7 years prior to their first encounter.

But that isn't their first encounter anymore. Truth is Cruz met Blade, Eve and Gido in the past, and the three saw him as a female, and that can't be changed now.
No, I'm still not convinced of this. The changes they've made are likely to be very complex in nature.

I have no idea what those details will be, but at the very MOST, I'm only prepared to accept the idea that perhaps they changed *Blade,* and Blade's differences may have resulted in some change in his decisions along the way, which subtly changed how things played out (that or Gido's appearance was a HUGE Art mistake, LOL). Like for instance, if Kafka were to appear, it would be because of some paradoxical rewrite that made Blade spare him because he remembered being helped by him. IOW, I'm talking really trippy stuff, not simple time travel.

But it was not the past. We can't make it that simple; we're not allowed to. Its specifically said several times, even in the chapter that they left, that it was a "Memory world." Not simply traveling to the past. A memory world. Like I said in an earlier post, a country I didn't know about until yesterday wasn't a crater for 28 years in the past. The giant black hole that AnN had to fill in for Blade discounts the memory world from being the same thing as the distinct past. The actual past is a historical thing, made from the experiences of every living thing; Blade's memory world was a jumbled mess of that history, limited only to his perception and experiences and was thrown into historical inaccuracy before Saten and Cruz even did anything.
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Old 2011-03-28, 18:03   Link #6603
K. Shiruto
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^Chapter 80. Saten makes it clear how the memories work. And yes, some things changed in the future, just like Gido's sudden appearance in the room.

I think you'll be more convinced once you see how Blade asks Cruz for a nap, he says with "but I'm a boy!" and Blade replies with a "Don't make fun, I knew you were a chick since the first time we met!".

But if it's just Blade's memories that were altered, don't you think that makes things easier? Since Blade was with Cruz in his female persona and Eve and Gido were with him, I think it's logic now they think too Cruz always was a female.

Last edited by K. Shiruto; 2011-03-28 at 18:16.
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Old 2011-03-28, 20:52   Link #6604
Avvesione
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I don't think that Blade or anything thinks Cruz has been a girl this whole time. For one thing, they knew him only as Yamada in the past and only as Cruz in the present until Eve decided to call him Yamada. They're still used to the normal timeline Cruz, the timid and weak boy, which is why both Blade and Disk were surprised when he dodged the Eve Cannon. Had the past actually changed, Blade would not have been surprised after he did it in the past in addition to a number of other heroic actions.

If it is the case that the memory world adventure changed the past so that Blade, Eve, and Gido always though Cruz was a girl, then Saten is certainly viewed as a good guy as well. It's the same principle that if they associate him as always being female, then they certainly will trust Saten as one of their own.

We honestly don't know the full ramifications of what happened yet since they just returned to the real world. I guess we'll learn more once we see Kafka and what age he would be or if we see Overlord at all or whatever. And we don't know what happened to Blade, Eve, and Gido when Cruz and Saten disappeared from the memory world. Did they return back to the normal timeline where everything was back to normal or did they go out and search for their new friends who simply vanished?

Hopefully we get some answers in Chapter 90 but I think we'll be diving headfirst into another story.
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Old 2011-03-28, 22:37   Link #6605
Magin
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The first problem exists with the fact that technically, only Blade's memories should've changed. However, we've been told that a weird sort of time-travel took place (I think), and that's going to be the real kicker. But even so... well, Cruz would still be seen as a guy, because Blade met Cruz as a guy in the Testament attack. it's possible at this point that Blade and co. think Cruz and Yamada are two different people... after all, Yamada being the female persona would technically have shown up after the PFzero blast.

The other thing is that even though we saw him brought back, I have a feeling that Kafka will still be dead presently. Why? Because when he and Blade fought, Kafka was employed with Simeon, and a mercenary. I see no reason why that fight wouldn't have still occured, and the end result staying the same as well

it all depends on whether it was only Blade's memories that got screwed up, or if the entire past has been changed...
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Old 2011-03-29, 02:43   Link #6606
K. Shiruto
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@Avvesione, went they went back to the present time things where the same before the entire incident happened. Proof of this is Cruz getting back his killergirl uniform and bandaged arm and Saten his cape.

If the future really changed, if you really can use someone's memories to travel through times, then Ishiyama's is undoubtely one of the most broken and dangerous fragments we have seen so far.

Next chapter should give us some clarifications regarding this issue. We are going to see how they interact with each other, and the final confirmation will be if Kafka turns to be alive.

Last edited by K. Shiruto; 2011-03-29 at 02:59.
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Old 2011-03-29, 09:36   Link #6607
EmotiveChaos
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Well, we've caught up with the Japanese releases and now I'll be going back and doing what's missing. However, to do this I need RAW's [Or Cleans you will be credited]

So, chapter 29+. If you have it please contact me. You can enter our IRC via a flash app on the Wow!Scans blog for instant contact. Which means faster releases. I very rarely check here unfortunately.

The IRC Web App is Here <<<
Just type your preferred username in and connect, I'll be there waiting

So yes, any help or assistance would be appreciated. I've been unable to find the RAWs for the missing chapters myself, and I got such an overwhelming response for the recently released chapters, I figured I will simply try asking again.

I look forward to hearing from you soon :>

your friendly neighborhood spid... *cough* scanlation group, Wow!Scans.

Spoiler for Image:


Last edited by EmotiveChaos; 2011-03-29 at 10:41.
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Old 2011-03-29, 12:50   Link #6608
K. Shiruto
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^Hmm, I can provide you with the raws you're missing.
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Old 2011-03-29, 13:02   Link #6609
EmotiveChaos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _kurusu_ View Post
^Hmm, I can provide you with the raws you're missing.
That would be an ideal outcome. Jump in our IRC or PM me here, I'll make it a point to check up when I can. Script 29 is already done by js06 so I can start working on it whenever I have the RAWs.
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Old 2011-03-29, 13:26   Link #6610
K. Shiruto
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^Currently uploading. It will be ready in a few minutes.
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Old 2011-03-29, 16:44   Link #6611
Guardian Enzo
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Count me among those who would like to see Cruz in guy clothes again, at least for a while (and not just because he's unsettlingly cute as a girl). I think some of the effect of trap Yamada is lost when he's dressed that way (or basically undressed) all the time. Plus, there should be at least some reason why he needs to be dressed that way, or it doesn't make a lot of sense. But given how much fun Imai seems to be having with countless panty (or less) shots with Yamada, I don't see the change happening anytime soon.
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Old 2011-03-29, 17:43   Link #6612
K. Shiruto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Count me among those who would like to see Cruz in guy clothes again, at least for a while (and not just because he's unsettlingly cute as a girl). I think some of the effect of trap Yamada is lost when he's dressed that way (or basically undressed) all the time. Plus, there should be at least some reason why he needs to be dressed that way, or it doesn't make a lot of sense. But given how much fun Imai seems to be having with countless panty (or less) shots with Yamada, I don't see the change happening anytime soon.
Of course there has to be a very good reason for why Cruz has been crossdressing for already +30 chapters and what's to come. In Needless nothing happens without a good reason. Of course, only the author knows why, not us. But one thing is clear, when a character has been staying in female disguise for such a long time, it means that what apparently only serves to conceal Cruz's true identity is way more important than we initially thought.

Last edited by K. Shiruto; 2011-03-29 at 18:06.
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Old 2011-03-29, 21:00   Link #6613
Avvesione
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Well, the first reason why Cruz has been wearing girl's clothes was because he was trapped in St. Rose and needed a disguise. After that, his normal clothes go thrown away, so he had to go find Mio and Disk while still in the PGS uniform. He wanted to change out of it again but they didn't have any money. After Moustache arc, Cruz (again) wanted to get out of those clothes but Blade refused because as long as he was cute, it doesn't matter. In the memory world, he was only offered girl clothes since they always thought he was a girl.

So there's always a reason, although most of them seem like excuses to me. It's been used as a source for a lot of jokes and fanservice, which really would've been lacking in the Moustache and Eve Story arcs w/o Cruz doing that. That and I think Imai Kami has fun drawing traps (from Snail-chan):

Spoiler:
I'm sure we'll get another excuse for Yamada to stay in his PGS uniform longer but I think he'll get lesser fanservice now that Eve's back. And Mio, too. But you never know... maybe we'll get a couple of pages of Yamada dress-up after this or something completely random.
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Old 2011-03-30, 02:59   Link #6614
K. Shiruto
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I still think there's more than what the eye meets. Jokes aside, Imai would never do something and keep it for such long time if there wasn't a bigger reason behind, and I'm pretty sure there's one. We'll see.
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Old 2011-03-30, 05:24   Link #6615
j0x
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@EmotiveChaos and _kurusu_

thanks for the effort of your group dudes

they are finally back and i agree that Yamada should have a boys clothing again
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Old 2011-03-30, 06:17   Link #6616
Soji
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _kurusu_ View Post
I still think there's more than what the eye meets. Jokes aside, Imai would never do something and keep it for such long time if there wasn't a bigger reason behind, and I'm pretty sure there's one. We'll see.
I agree .. and then if it was just for fan service why in the last ch raw Yamada wear agin the pgs uniform? If it was just fan service was not good the last dress she had in the memory world?
In any case,Im sure we get the answer if it's just for fan service or for a reason more important.
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Old 2011-03-30, 06:20   Link #6617
K. Shiruto
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You're welcome, jix.

It's ok to want him back in male clothes, but like I said before, if there's a bigger reason behind Cruz staying in female disguise, then who knows, it's possible we won't ever see him again in male dress.

Which is the chance depends entirely whether there's a better reason for him to stay as female. Soji knows what I mean.

EDIT: Oh, guess you already answered
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Old 2011-03-30, 13:58   Link #6618
Avvesione
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soji View Post
I agree .. and then if it was just for fan service why in the last ch raw Yamada wear agin the pgs uniform? If it was just fan service was not good the last dress she had in the memory world?
In any case,Im sure we get the answer if it's just for fan service or for a reason more important.
I think the reason he's back in the PGS uniform is so that no one knows what happened. Had Cruz come back wearing nothing but kneesocks, then Ishiyama, Blade, etc. would've known something had happened. Saten would've been without his cape as well. Being back in the PGS uniform allows for Cruz and Saten to act like nothing has happened.

But like I was saying before, the last arc would've had a lot less fanservice and little comedy w/o Yamada crossdressing the whole time.
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Old 2011-03-30, 15:28   Link #6619
K. Shiruto
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^I was expecting more or less things would be the same before the entire incident happened. If you take a close look, when time resumes the first thing Blade does is perform the same action he did to break the door containing his memories... but this time the door wasn't there.

Also, next chapters seems will tie things and then head towards the next arc.
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Old 2011-03-30, 18:21   Link #6620
Avvesione
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Here's a random thought:

Simeon is looking for the second data chip from the Resistance. Mengroze was a doctor for the Resistance who operated on Cruz sometime. He may have put the data chip inside Cruz or something to keep it hidden or something. Or maybe he still has the other data chip wherever he is in Blackspot. Idk, that's just trying to connect two different questions to each other and looking for a possible answer.
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