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Old 2012-01-26, 05:36   Link #7721
Soji
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Avvesione@ Are you not happy with this?
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Old 2012-01-26, 06:33   Link #7722
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Setsuna gained a lot of points with me when she rescued her colleague from the bomb during the St. Rose arc. As far as I am concerned she stopped being a villain of any kind at that point. However, she still maintains ties to Simeon, and those need to be dealt with because as far as this series is concerned Simeon is villainous to its very core and that's not going to change. The current conflict is likely to take care of this issue.

I think that Setsuna's affection for Arclight is an unimportant throw away issue. Seriously, when was the last time it was mentioned or demonstrated in any way? Kuchinashi's affection for Riru, and Riru's connections with the shoujo butai in general, is a much more pertinent issue in my mind. My own little theory is that Riru will attempt to personally kill the girls for their disloyalty, which will be enough to make the girls see reality and fully defect to Cruz and Blade's side. Really, I'd love nothing more than to see a battle consisting of a powered up shoujo butai vs Riru.

Of course, I expect actual developments to be wackier than I can possibly imagine.
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Old 2012-01-26, 07:02   Link #7723
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Originally Posted by ShadowsAsgard View Post
Setsuna acting on her own seems to be the most likely explanation. As a PGS member she would almost certainly know about Arclight's orders to take the resistance members alive. The only reason I can think of for her to go against those orders would be to protect Mio from the potential fallout if it became known she had travelled with Cruz.

Protecting Mio is a good enough reason by itself, but don't forget Setsuna has some skin of her own in this game. After all, She helped Yamada in the Rose academy. She might even want to protect the Black madam who allowed Yamada to graduate. All in all there's a lot of people who can get into trouble if Yamada gets captured and questioned.

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Originally Posted by Avvesione View Post
My "Mio the Spy" theory can now be laid to rest with this chapter.
Hmmm, perhaps not as a spy but it does look like she was "inspired" by someone else to protect/travel with Yamada. Originally we thought Saten might have ordered her to do so, but this way I'd say we weren't 100% wrong. Just 99%

I think the only reason Kuchinashi and Setsuna will switch sides if they're ordered to kill Mio or when Mio is in danger of getting killed by someone of Simeon. Mio's main priority is getting Yamada to Blade, not hurt or kill her friends, so she might even try to escape from this fight when given the chance. But I don't think Teruyama is the kind of person to walk away like that so that might be a problem.

Also: Imai Kami doesn't shy away from classic plot twists so I'm wondering if we'll see a Teruyama vs Teruyama fight. Not as a chapter filling event but just something on the background or at least some sort of joke about it.
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Old 2012-01-26, 08:12   Link #7724
Soji
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Hmmm, perhaps not as a spy but it does look like she was "inspired" by someone else to protect/travel with Yamada. Originally we thought Saten might have ordered her to do so, but this way I'd say we weren't 100% wrong. Just 99%
True,but she should know better that Yamada is not someone who would betray someone that help him.But I can see what you mean.
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Old 2012-01-26, 10:21   Link #7725
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Originally Posted by Ynot View Post
I think the only reason Kuchinashi and Setsuna will switch sides if they're ordered to kill Mio or when Mio is in danger of getting killed by someone of Simeon. Mio's main priority is getting Yamada to Blade, not hurt or kill her friends, so she might even try to escape from this fight when given the chance. But I don't think Teruyama is the kind of person to walk away like that so that might be a problem.

Also: Imai Kami doesn't shy away from classic plot twists so I'm wondering if we'll see a Teruyama vs Teruyama fight. Not as a chapter filling event but just something on the background or at least some sort of joke about it.
I'm in complete agreement with you Ynot. If Mio is in danger, this is the only way logical way I see Setsuna, and Kuchinashi joining Cruz's side. As Avvesione mentioned the only reason she initially helped Cruz at Saint Rose, was to find out what had happened to Mio. She fully believes in what Arclight and Simeon stands for, so it's hard to see any other reason she would leave them.

This being said, its very interesting to see the situation the 3 girls now find themselves. Remember what happened the very first time these three were introduced. They themselves said that traitors need to be punished and killed Nanami and Missaki. Now we have Mio who has completely betrayed Simeon to save Cruz, and Setsuna and Kuchinashi who may have ignored the standing orders of Arclight to capture Cruz alive. If this is the case, they have gone full circle, and I will be very surprised if we don't see Nanami, Misaki, and Kurumi within the next two chapters.
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Old 2012-01-26, 11:33   Link #7726
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While reading the chapter, after Setsuna appeared behind Yamada, I instantly was reminded of her warning to him at St. Rose and thought, "oh, shit!".

Because let's be honest, it's the first thing that comes to your mind once she finally finds him, more when we're talking about someone who does her job.
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Old 2012-01-26, 11:36   Link #7727
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Originally Posted by Adan View Post
While reading the chapter, after Setsuna appeared behind Yamada, I instantly was reminded of her warning to him at St. Rose and thought, "oh, shit!".

Because let's be honest, it's the first thing that comes to your mind once she finally finds him, more when we're talking about someone who does her job.
Why I get the felling that Yamada will die again (or almost die) and Mio will use that spear on Yamda as well?
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Old 2012-01-26, 12:18   Link #7728
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Originally Posted by Avvesione View Post
Yeah, judging from how she's always being beaten up (like the punch in this chapter) I don't think we're supposed to sympathize with her character... but I still do.

I think what we're seeing is how Setsuna always acts toward her enemies. And Cruz is still an enemy. In battle, she's always been quite arrogant, authoritative, and efficient. She has a mission and will do what it takes to get it done. Plus this time around she isn't belittling or humiliating Cruz like she did in the Third Shelter and she's not toying with him or torturing him either. And beneath the surface, we've seen Setsuna is sweet, compassionate, and caring toward Kuchinashi and Mio. Setsuna is very endearing toward those two and puts them above all else. She knew the current mission would trouble Mio, so she gave her the option to back down. And the only reason she ever got to know Cruz and gave him a chance during St. Rose was only because he knew how Mio was doing after PF Blast. You could see how visibly worried she was over Mio and still is to this chapter.

As for the murder order, it doesn't make sense to me either. The only thing I can think of is that Mio told Setsuna about everything that happened and she thought it'd be best to kill him before anyone else knew she defected and joined the enemy. She probably thinks she can defend Mio by killing Cruz.
Yes, that's true. She shows no mercy for her enemies.

The problem with Setsuna's possible reasoning for killing Cruz is weird because mudering him won't erase the fact that Mio (and herself) did help Cruz and that somehow or someway Arclight may find out anyway. Besides I don't think Mio defecting to Cruz's side is that big of a deal to Arclight. Maybe to Riru, but not Arclight, the man that views himself as a god. To him it's just one more speck of dust in his way to blow away.

Last edited by needless_r+vfan; 2012-01-26 at 12:33.
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Old 2012-01-26, 12:26   Link #7729
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Originally Posted by Ynot View Post
Protecting Mio is a good enough reason by itself, but don't forget Setsuna has some skin of her own in this game. After all, She helped Yamada in the Rose academy. She might even want to protect the Black madam who allowed Yamada to graduate. All in all there's a lot of people who can get into trouble if Yamada gets captured and questioned.

Hmmm, perhaps not as a spy but it does look like she was "inspired" by someone else to protect/travel with Yamada. Originally we thought Saten might have ordered her to do so, but this way I'd say we weren't 100% wrong. Just 99%

I think the only reason Kuchinashi and Setsuna will switch sides if they're ordered to kill Mio or when Mio is in danger of getting killed by someone of Simeon. Mio's main priority is getting Yamada to Blade, not hurt or kill her friends, so she might even try to escape from this fight when given the chance. But I don't think Teruyama is the kind of person to walk away like that so that might be a problem.

Also: Imai Kami doesn't shy away from classic plot twists so I'm wondering if we'll see a Teruyama vs Teruyama fight. Not as a chapter filling event but just something on the background or at least some sort of joke about it.
That's right. She also assisted Cruz at St. Rose. And I forgot about the Black Madam; she could also feel some of the heat. But I still get the feeling Arclight is too wrapped up with his god quest to be worried about such trivialities especially since he has 9 out of 12 of the Stigmata.

I agree with you. As mentioned in the earlier posts and something I overlooked, the only reason Setsuna and Kuchinashi helped Cruz in the St Rose arc is because of Mio. So the only reason they'd defect now would be if Arclight ordered Mio killed.
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Old 2012-01-26, 12:31   Link #7730
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Originally Posted by Adan View Post
While reading the chapter, after Setsuna appeared behind Yamada, I instantly was reminded of her warning to him at St. Rose and thought, "oh, shit!".

Because let's be honest, it's the first thing that comes to your mind once she finally finds him, more when we're talking about someone who does her job.
Yes. This brings me back to that ominous warning too. I just wonder who else will intervene if Cruz is about to be killed again.
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Old 2012-01-26, 12:38   Link #7731
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Setsuna gained a lot of points with me when she rescued her colleague from the bomb during the St. Rose arc. As far as I am concerned she stopped being a villain of any kind at that point. However, she still maintains ties to Simeon, and those need to be dealt with because as far as this series is concerned Simeon is villainous to its very core and that's not going to change. The current conflict is likely to take care of this issue.

I think that Setsuna's affection for Arclight is an unimportant throw away issue. Seriously, when was the last time it was mentioned or demonstrated in any way? Kuchinashi's affection for Riru, and Riru's connections with the shoujo butai in general, is a much more pertinent issue in my mind. My own little theory is that Riru will attempt to personally kill the girls for their disloyalty, which will be enough to make the girls see reality and fully defect to Cruz and Blade's side. Really, I'd love nothing more than to see a battle consisting of a powered up shoujo butai vs Riru.

Of course, I expect actual developments to be wackier than I can possibly imagine.
Never thought about that. That's a very relative and excellent point. I can see Riru getting angry and wanting to kill the girls for their "treachery" towards Simeon, just not Arclight. I'd like to see Riru in battle too. She seems to not have much appearance lately if at all.
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Old 2012-01-26, 12:50   Link #7732
Guardian Enzo
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i want the link too please.
I would love the link as well, when you have a moment. Thanks.
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Old 2012-01-26, 15:29   Link #7733
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The last thing Yamada needs now is to meet with his sister again, that would be overkill.

But considering Simeon's branch is in the City, all the members of the Shitenou are there for sure, so Arca making her entrance is just a matter of time.
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Old 2012-01-26, 15:37   Link #7734
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Arca making her entrance is just a matter of time.
Speaking of which, Arca is another mysterious character. As far as I'm aware we still don't know why she joined Simeon, or why she decided to help Cruz out by blasting a hole in Hatfield/Strom's ice wall. She also makes a rather odd comment in chapter 71 after blasting the Simeon dude who was with her.

Arca: This is the chance I'll give you. I won't do something like this again. If you're a man...then show me you can survive!

Considering the number of players in the field right now I'd say the chances of a reunion are pretty high.
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Old 2012-01-26, 19:36   Link #7735
Avvesione
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Originally Posted by Soji View Post
Avvesione@ Are you not happy with this?
Idk, I kinda wanted Mio to show off some intelligence and manipulation as a villain but then with how her relationship with Cruz developed, it'd be real harsh if she turned out to be a spy. I do actually enjoy them together a lot since they do make a cute team but I wouldn't mind it if we saw Mio outsmart Cruz for half the manga.

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Originally Posted by Kefit View Post
Setsuna gained a lot of points with me when she rescued her colleague from the bomb during the St. Rose arc. As far as I am concerned she stopped being a villain of any kind at that point. However, she still maintains ties to Simeon, and those need to be dealt with because as far as this series is concerned Simeon is villainous to its very core and that's not going to change. The current conflict is likely to take care of this issue.

I think that Setsuna's affection for Arclight is an unimportant throw away issue. Seriously, when was the last time it was mentioned or demonstrated in any way? Kuchinashi's affection for Riru, and Riru's connections with the shoujo butai in general, is a much more pertinent issue in my mind. My own little theory is that Riru will attempt to personally kill the girls for their disloyalty, which will be enough to make the girls see reality and fully defect to Cruz and Blade's side. Really, I'd love nothing more than to see a battle consisting of a powered up shoujo butai vs Riru.

Of course, I expect actual developments to be wackier than I can possibly imagine.
I always thought we'd see the PGS fight Nanami, Misaki, and Kurumi sometime in this chapter with all the clones but, to be honest, I'd rather see them take on Riru. None of their fragments match up well against Psychokinesis (but then again, who's does?) but it'd be a fight that would really flesh out their characters and show that they're more than just Simeon assassins. We have seen more to Mio and Setsuna thanks to the second half of the manga when they weren't following Simeon orders.

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Originally Posted by Ynot View Post
Protecting Mio is a good enough reason by itself, but don't forget Setsuna has some skin of her own in this game. After all, She helped Yamada in the Rose academy. She might even want to protect the Black madam who allowed Yamada to graduate. All in all there's a lot of people who can get into trouble if Yamada gets captured and questioned.

I think the only reason Kuchinashi and Setsuna will switch sides if they're ordered to kill Mio or when Mio is in danger of getting killed by someone of Simeon. Mio's main priority is getting Yamada to Blade, not hurt or kill her friends, so she might even try to escape from this fight when given the chance. But I don't think Teruyama is the kind of person to walk away like that so that might be a problem.
All good points you mentioned here. Guess we'll find out exactly what's going on in the next chapter because I'm sure Mio will ask Setsuna why she's going after Cruz all of a sudden.

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This being said, its very interesting to see the situation the 3 girls now find themselves. Remember what happened the very first time these three were introduced. They themselves said that traitors need to be punished and killed Nanami and Missaki. Now we have Mio who has completely betrayed Simeon to save Cruz, and Setsuna and Kuchinashi who may have ignored the standing orders of Arclight to capture Cruz alive. If this is the case, they have gone full circle, and I will be very surprised if we don't see Nanami, Misaki, and Kurumi within the next two chapters.
After seeing Kafka and Uten back thanks to the cloning, I figured we'd see Nanami, Misaki, and Kurumi back sometime and go against Setsuna, Kuchinashi, and Mio but we'll need to see Setsuna and Kuchinashi switch sides first before that can ever happen.

One thing I could see after reading all these posts is that Nanami, Misaki, and Kurumi would target Mio since she's clearly a traitor now and try to kill her which would prompt Setsuna and Kuchinashi to defend Mio. That would be enough for the other girls to assume they are also traitors and fight them as well. And I guess if there's a new clone of Teruyama, too, Teruyama can fight himself in the background like Ynot suggested.
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Old 2012-01-26, 22:05   Link #7736
Skieth
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^
Mio and Cruz are my favorite characters of the series, so I'm really glad she never betrayed him. There's some evidence that implys she's become as important a friend to him as Blade and Eve. If this is true, and she had betrayed him, think what that would have done to him mentality. When Arca betrayed him, it nearly killed him (literally), I hate to think what he would have been like after a second close betrayal.

As for Nanami, Misaki, and Kurumi, I don't think they would limit themselves to just attacking Mio right off the bat. Nanami and Misaki would be looking for any excuse to attack all three girls, after all their the one's who killed them in the first place. Kurumi would join in as well, especially if she found out that Cruz was their. He was the primary cause of her death, and I'm sure she would be eager for some payback. She might even hold Setsuna and the others responsible as well, seeing as they failed to keep her safe. Since Teruyama is present as well, he would be the perfect puppet for her to control. His clone was already under Simeon control, and it would be ironic if he was to be placed back under Simeon control so soon after coming back to life.

As a side note, I believe someone mentioned that the next chapter will have a color page, is this correct or will that happen on chapter 100.
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Old 2012-01-27, 03:54   Link #7737
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Finished my post on Needless 98, hope you all enjoy it!

http://avvesione.wordpress.com/2012/...ss-chapter-98/

---

^Skieth

You know, now that you mention it, I would put Mio as third most important to Cruz after Blade and Eve. She's spent more time with her than anyone else on his side (minus Blade and close to Eve) and she's protected him through numerous fights. If she had betrayed him, it would've absolutely destroyed Cruz. Like you mentioned, he's one of your favorites so it'd be awful for you, but I'd love to see how Cruz responds, see how he deals with something so devastating. Plus, I think it'd be funny if the stupidest character in the manga outsmarts the smartest. But it looks like that won't be happening at all, so that theory can be laid to rest.

Good point about the three girls not waiting to attack Setsuna and Kuchinashi. Didn't think about that but that's a realistic possibility. And yes, the next chapter will have a color spread (2 pages) and the first page be colored. Should be fun.

---

Also was thinking, now that Teruyama was stabbed by Uten's spear and received Eden's Seeds, I wonder how much more powerful his Flame fragment will be. Should be interesting to see if he can pull off a Vulcan Shock Little Boy now. He was able to dominate Kuchinashi in the Third Shelter since his Flame would burn her Fragrence but I wonder if she'll be stronger to overcome that disadvantage or if Setsuna will take him on.
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Old 2012-01-27, 04:02   Link #7738
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Also was thinking, now that Teruyama was stabbed by Uten's spear and received Eden's Seeds, I wonder how much more powerful his Flame fragment will be. Should be interesting to see if he can pull off a Vulcan Shock Little Boy now. He was able to dominate Kuchinashi in the Third Shelter since his Flame would burn her Fragrence but I wonder if she'll be stronger to overcome that disadvantage or if Setsuna will take him on.
Teruyama could already use Vulcan Shock Little Boy - he uses it in chapter 50 against Arclight's monstrous form. The real question is whether he'll be strong enough to use Fat Man.
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Old 2012-01-27, 04:38   Link #7739
Avvesione
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Teruyama could already use Vulcan Shock Little Boy - he uses it in chapter 50 against Arclight's monstrous form. The real question is whether he'll be strong enough to use Fat Man.
True. It was puny then compared to Blade's, so he should be about that level now, at least. You can see how powerful he is now after sending Setsuna across the room with a straightforward punch. If he can't do Fat Man, though, I wonder if there'll be something between the two that's a 'medium' powered Flame attack or something.
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Old 2012-01-27, 05:38   Link #7740
Soji
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You know, now that you mention it, I would put Mio as third most important to Cruz after Blade and Eve. She's spent more time with her than anyone else on his side (minus Blade and close to Eve) and she's protected him through numerous fights. If she had betrayed him, it would've absolutely destroyed Cruz.
Agree,That's why I'm glad that Mio is on his side.
Quote:
True. It was puny then compared to Blade's, so he should be about that level now, at least. You can see how powerful he is now after sending Setsuna across the room with a straightforward punch. If he can't do Fat Man, though, I wonder if there'll be something between the two that's a 'medium' powered Flame attack or something.
I think there is. If not ...I think he can always made something that he can use (at least I think)

Last edited by Soji; 2012-01-27 at 05:50.
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