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Old 2012-06-02, 23:22   Link #8961
Avvesione
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I hope the story gets back to Saten soon since he knows more about Cruz than just about everyone (Aruka should know more but we don't know what she knows either). I want to see what his reaction is to seeing what Cruz is like now and what he wants Cruz to do or what else he wants from Cruz. Should be fun to see what happens with Saten next since so much has happened that is certain to interest him.
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Old 2012-06-02, 23:55   Link #8962
Xiammes
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Turns out Saten has been observing Cruz the entire time. I also could imagine him intefering in one of the fights, which one is unknown. He could also help Arca jump to a new body, loli form but posses all her knowledge and memories. Also I have a feeling Guido will appear soon if we get no word from Saten.
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Old 2012-06-03, 02:30   Link #8963
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I'd be shocked if Saten hasn't been following Cruz around or at least is informed of his movements. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he's the one who send the Testamenko-chans out seeing as he wanted to test our Cruz and know probably more than just about anyone on Testaments (based on the fact that he prepared the ones for the PGS before Iron Mountain and was working on them when the they returned with Eve).

Having Saten intervine in a fight would be ideal but he'd need to do it under conditions where he wouldn't be able to be labeled as a traitor to either Arclight or Ishiyama. Probably the best one to jump in would be the fight between Setsuna/Kuchinashi and Mio/Teruyama since it's a bit of an internal struggle for Simeon and he could jump in and support either side (but probably join Simeon here since his fragment would completely nullify Teruyama).

Still, I'm hoping for something to happen where Cruz intervene instead and saves someone from being attacked, either Setsuna or Mio. The thing is if he saves Setsuna, it shows how compassionate and forgiving he is, especially after she just tried to kill him a few chapters ago and it would be a great reason for her and Kuchinashi to join his side. If he does it to save Mio, it'd be Cruz repaying his kindness to Mio after she stuck with him for most of the manga and repeatedly saved him and sacrificed herself for Cruz. Either way, it'd be a wonderful display of Cruz's growth to see him step in and defend someone like he did for Blade against Strom.

I'm also thinking Saten could drop in during the Seto/Solva vs Kafka/Uten fight. We don't know Saten's current location, so he could feasibly be anywhere, so there's no issue of distance or location that would say otherwise. But if he shows up there, I'm not really sure what he'd do or why it'd be significant to his character or the story. But it is possible...
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Old 2012-06-03, 03:02   Link #8964
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You are right, Saten intervening in the Setsuna/Mio fight would be most likely. I doubt he would join Setsuna side though, we know Uchida lives through this. Also the Black Madam could also show up there fight and would go a long ways to help figure out how she got her position in 1.5

If Cruz lives to see past part 1, I can see him growing up to be a defender, randomly dropping in and crashing the party. He would also need someone to be his mentor, someone like Saten, who is as fast as a speed fragment user and as strong as a power fragment user to teach him how to fight.
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Old 2012-06-03, 04:32   Link #8965
Avvesione
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Well, when I was thinking Saten would join the fight, I don't expect him to kill anyone, just to redirect the fight or end it and order people to go elsewhere. That's the only decent reason I can think of him showing up for Seto/Solva's fight, too; to bring them to the Simeon HQ.

Also, about your second point, I'm sure Cruz would want to stay with Blade and Eve as his mentors even if Saten would be a better teacher for Cruz. Depending on the circumstances, it is entirely possible that Saten could fulfill that role for Cruz. That'd be interesting, too, considering how Saten has been all over Cruz since the beginning of the series. But if Cruz were to take lessons from Saten, he'd only really consider or use the defensive ones since it's not in his personality to be offensive at all. Even when he was on the offensive, against Hatfield and one of Mengroze's creatures, he never seemed to be doing so wholeheartedly. But his enthusiasm for defending his friends or anyone in trouble is unmistakable.
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Old 2012-06-03, 04:46   Link #8966
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What interesting topic you guys have here. Avvesione even if I agree that Cruz is like you say i'm pretty sure he will learn to be offensive.Afterall,at time the best defense is the offense so i can see him learn this as well (just in case). Also we really don't know what else Cruz power can do. About Saten he may or not may train Cruz in the future from what we know even If Blade die (hope not ...but who know) I think Eve will still be with Cruz and she can train him as well(ok not as good a Saten would be) . Also like you say there is the chance that Cruz do something that make Sestuna and Kushinasi be his ally and Sestuna as well can train him. Honestly,like I say on you're blog there is soo many route that the author can take that will be really interesting see what route the author will take from now on.

Last edited by Soji; 2012-06-03 at 05:01.
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Old 2012-06-03, 04:58   Link #8967
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Oh Soji, you just reminded me of something I wanted to discuss a while back but... I guess I forgot about it until now.

Given what we've seen so far, Blade isn't able to memorize Cruz's fragment. It appeared to be a fragment that Disk could Scan, (though many of us aren't completely satisfied with her information) so why can't Blade memorize it? We've yet to get any explanation on why that might be the case, but it might be fun for us to try to figure it out on our own before we're given the answer. Plus, it might help us realize what Cruz's true powers are, those beyond what Disk said. Perhaps if we're able to extrapolate data or examples, we might be able to find out where the offensive aspects of Cruz's fragment are or what possible mechanisms are preventing Blade from learning it (because if it's just a shield that nullifies attacks, why couldn't Blade learn it? It needs to be something more fundamental then that, like the reason he can't learn Doppelganger is because he lost that section of his brain).

But yeah, I was thinking if Blade could learn it, he could easily train Cruz how to use it and how to fight... but he can't learn it, which is what got me to remember this tidbit I found interesting. Meant to bring it up when I noticed it after the chapter was translated...
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Old 2012-06-03, 05:10   Link #8968
Soji
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Avvesione@ Well that can be the case on why Blade can't learn Cruz fragment .Though ,AA reaction make me think there is more than that.
Let's see what we know until now about Cruz power.
1 We know the name and what can do (at least one of the thing that power can do).
2 We know that again AA he don't use his hand and the power active itself other that free him from the chain.
3 We know (thank's to AA that point out that) that Cruz eyes change color/form that time thing that don't happen when Disk scan Cruz.
4 Mengroze in the memory world show us the stigmata thing and say that he gain that mark from one of his patients.
Then we have Arca last word as well that they may or not may be about Cruz or his power.
Now if I had to guess i think that Cruz power is similar a both Sestuna and Saten meaning is both missing link lv + stigmata(if the part about Mengroze is true).
Now one thing that we have to understand is the eyes role in his power + the stigmata role(if that was Cruz stigmata).
Honestly I can think more that one thing on how Cruz power can be offensive and some of this idee was here in this topic.
In the last ch Cruz want protect Blade and because of this he active the Shield of agies part but what would happen if he want attack? That's something i wonder.
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Old 2012-06-03, 05:17   Link #8969
Xiammes
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Quote:
Also, about your second point, I'm sure Cruz would want to stay with Blade and Eve as his mentors even if Saten would be a better teacher for Cruz. Depending on the circumstances, it is entirely possible that Saten could fulfill that role for Cruz. That'd be interesting, too, considering how Saten has been all over Cruz since the beginning of the series. But if Cruz were to take lessons from Saten, he'd only really consider or use the defensive ones since it's not in his personality to be offensive at all. Even when he was on the offensive, against Hatfield and one of Mengroze's creatures, he never seemed to be doing so wholeheartedly. But his enthusiasm for defending his friends or anyone in trouble is unmistakable.
He would still need to learn how to fight, being defensive won't help entirely as the enemy could attack his blind spots, so he would need to learn to be offensive at least in a way. Also pumping up his physical stats would only help his defense. The way things are heading Blade won't be around for part 2 one way or another Saten the only one who possible fill his role as a mentor.

Quote:
Also like you say there is the chance that Cruz do something that make Sestuna and Kushinasi be his ally and Sestuna as well can train him. Honestly,like I say on you're blog there is soo many route that the author can take that will be really interesting see what route the author will take from now on.
Setsuna and Mio can't really teach him there fragment, its natural too them. Saten on the other hand is almost the equivalent of a badass normal, his fragment has nothing to do with speed or power but he is just as fast or as strong as they are. No one can pull off being his mentor other then him.

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Given what we've seen so far, Blade isn't able to memorize Cruz's fragment. It appeared to be a fragment that Disk could Scan, (though many of us aren't completely satisfied with her information) so why can't Blade memorize it?
I am 100% sure that Disk scan isn't a fragment, and that she is just making shit up as it goes along.

I have a two theories.

1) Cruz was able to subconsciously neutralize Blades Byakugo the same way he did Arclights Agnischwattas.
2) It wasn't fully developed so there wasn't anything to learn at the time.
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Old 2012-06-03, 06:45   Link #8970
Avvesione
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Even if Cruz were to learn offensive abilities, whether related to his fragment or not, I doubt he'll ever really use them in a battle or something. Idk, I just have a hard time imagining him to fight like that given that isn't his style of fighting. Then again, anything can happen to him between now and then.

As for Disk's fragment, it does have an entry in the volumes as being a fragment with some abilities. It's how it explains her ability to hack into Testaments and other systems so well I believe.
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Old 2012-06-03, 07:13   Link #8971
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Originally Posted by Avvesione View Post
Even if Cruz were to learn offensive abilities, whether related to his fragment or not, I doubt he'll ever really use them in a battle or something. Idk, I just have a hard time imagining him to fight like that given that isn't his style of fighting. Then again, anything can happen to him between now and then.
there's this someone that killed the resistance members, tried to kill him, decapitated his sister, sucked out info from her head, killed her, cloned her in other to make mini killing machines, tried to kill him again and wants to kill his friends.

I know someone he'd use a fatal offensive power against while ignoring any sensible plan he might have come up with... =.=
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Old 2012-06-03, 08:27   Link #8972
Xiammes
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Even if Cruz were to learn offensive abilities, whether related to his fragment or not, I doubt he'll ever really use them in a battle or something. Idk, I just have a hard time imagining him to fight like that given that isn't his style of fighting. Then again, anything can happen to him between now and then.
If the situation calls for it, I am not saying he is gonna go around bullying kids out of there lunch money but there comes times when you got to fight, Cruz always got away since he had someone stronger to protect him.

I imagine him become a wandering nun priest during part 2 and shows up when the main cast is in peril, making a similar entrance as Blade with dropping a cross.


Quote:
As for Disk's fragment, it does have an entry in the volumes as being a fragment with some abilities. It's how it explains her ability to hack into Testaments and other systems so well I believe.
Maybe the fact that she is a half could explain why she can. She was alive before the war, the way I hear of normal people evolving into Needless is through Eden Seed. Until I see the second going around using Scan, I say she is full of shit. She couldn't make out Satens fragment, despite the fact the clues that he was giving off, the wind manipulation should have been a dead giveaway to anyone who took basic physics.
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Old 2012-06-03, 11:48   Link #8973
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Originally Posted by Xiammes View Post
If the situation calls for it, I am not saying he is gonna go around bullying kids out of there lunch money but there comes times when you got to fight, Cruz always got away since he had someone stronger to protect him.

I imagine him become a wandering nun priest during part 2 and shows up when the main cast is in peril, making a similar entrance as Blade with dropping a cross.




Maybe the fact that she is a half could explain why she can. She was alive before the war, the way I hear of normal people evolving into Needless is through Eden Seed. Until I see the second going around using Scan, I say she is full of shit. She couldn't make out Satens fragment, despite the fact the clues that he was giving off, the wind manipulation should have been a dead giveaway to anyone who took basic physics.
not really, if you read earlier chapter you can see that disk Scan use her Fragment library to compare and identity fragment, thus in case of :
1. the fragment aren't in the library
2. the info in the library about that fragment isn't enough.
i think 2 is more about the case with Saten heat absorption and cruz shield of aegis ( the info about them isn't enough - lead to fourth wave or unexplainable shiled). as for Blade, i thinks your theory about the shield blocking and neuralized blade zero is highly possible. And if Cruz actually, became a wandering nun during part 2, i will have to admit that it sound quite... interesting(may be the MC will fall for him lol)
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Old 2012-06-03, 11:55   Link #8974
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Originally Posted by dragon1412 View Post
not really, if you read earlier chapter you can see that disk Scan use her Fragment library to compare and identity fragment, thus in case of :
1. the fragment aren't in the library
2. the info in the library about that fragment isn't enough.
i think 2 is more about the case with Saten heat absorption and cruz shield of aegis ( the info about them isn't enough - lead to fourth wave or unexplainable shiled). as for Blade, i thinks your theory about the shield blocking and neuralized blade zero is highly possible. And if Cruz actually, became a wandering nun during part 2, i will have to admit that it sound quite... interesting(may be the MC will fall for him lol)
By MC you mean Cain?
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Old 2012-06-03, 12:03   Link #8975
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By MC you mean Cain?
highly possible but there are no concrete evidence
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Old 2012-06-03, 20:29   Link #8976
Xiammes
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not really, if you read earlier chapter you can see that disk Scan use her Fragment library to compare and identity fragment, thus in case of :
1. the fragment aren't in the library
2. the info in the library about that fragment isn't enough.
i think 2 is more about the case with Saten heat absorption and cruz shield of aegis ( the info about them isn't enough - lead to fourth wave or unexplainable shiled). as for Blade, i thinks your theory about the shield blocking and neuralized blade zero is highly possible. And if Cruz actually, became a wandering nun during part 2, i will have to admit that it sound quite... interesting(may be the MC will fall for him lol)

That's why its not a fragment, she is just making shit up as she goes along. I am not saying she doesn't have a extensive list of scanned fragments, buts its not a fragment.

Those two are really the only possible explanations, at least till Imai pulls some crazy shit like its not a fragment or something.
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Old 2012-06-05, 18:48   Link #8977
Avvesione
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I realize I never added my thoughts on the whole 'Blade-can't-learn-this fragment' thingy that I mentioned a few days ago. After looking over Chapter 102 a bit more and thinking about what we've seen, I've figured I'd toss out my idea now. What we've seen in the past is that Blade can't learn fragments that require and utilize multiple regions of the brain for it to function. Previous examples were the Fourth Wave and Doppelganger with the later being physically impossible. Every other fragment, Blade has been able to observe and understand or use his byakugou to get it faster. But still, to use every fragment, he has to understand the nature of it.

That's why I don't believe he can use Shield of Aegis, he doesn't understand it nor does he require the brain capacity to use it. I believe for Shield of Aegis to work, the user must understand the fragments it's defending against, almost like it's a reverse of Zero in the sense that Zero allows the Needless to use the fragment whereas Shield of Aegis allows the user to nullify the fragment. The few instances we've seen Shield of Aegis work has been against fragments that Cruz understands. I wouldn't be surprised to see him be unable to defend against Psychokinesis or the Fifth Wave or anything he hasn't seen before or doesn't understand. Another aspect to this theory is that Cruz has unrivaled brain power and knowledge, which could be a reason why it's so easy for him and difficult for Blade. Having this knowledge might be essential to learning the fragment, so Blade bumping his forehead against Cruz that one time might have had the same effect as when he bumped foreheads with Saten. Blade was unable to use the Fourth Wave in the present until the Memory Arc when Saten did it again and told Blade how to use it along with his Stigmata (the reason why he can use it now and used it in Chapter 102). Shield of Aegis is still largely unknown as a fragment but these are my thoughts on it so far, both the nature of the fragment and the reason why Blade can't learn it.
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Old 2012-06-06, 07:38   Link #8978
Xiammes
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I like the idea of understanding the power to break it down, but I doubt it will get that complicated, fragments are usually simply without a lot of stipulations since you only get one.
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Old 2012-06-14, 21:33   Link #8979
Avvesione
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Forgot to post this a while ago but does anyone mind translating this for me? It was in last month's issue of Ultra Jump and I'm a little curious to what it's says. Are either js06 or Ynot around to help out?

Spoiler:

Thanks in advance to whoever translates this for us!
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Old 2012-06-15, 06:55   Link #8980
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^ From what I can make of it, it's an add telling people who'd like to debut can send in their manga and if they win it'll get published. Imai Kami is going to be the judge of the 18th time they're doing this and the winner of the 17th time will be present in the next ultra jump.

.
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