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Old 2003-12-15, 06:12   Link #1
user6177
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Macross 7 Discussion Thread

New Macross 7 releases by Anime-In-Action

I think they're great! But they release too slow.
I still download the ASS versions because they are released lightyears faster. But I will replace every episode with AIA versions (because ASS subs suck, a LOT of errors. And because AIA subs the songs ( Yippie )) eventually (don't know what year yet).

I think every Macross has the ASS versions, just so they can watch it sooner.
I don't know if there are AIA staff members on this forum. If there are any, please answer this question.

Why don't you just release "Dynamite", "Encore", "P-L-U-S", "The Movie" and "Macross 7 00 Macross's Fastest Liftoff!" before the normal episodes? That way we (the Macross 7 fans that haven't seen everything yet) can at least watch something new.

Last edited by user6177; 2003-12-16 at 09:07.
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Old 2003-12-15, 07:16   Link #2
Wandering A.I.
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ASS actually did release Dynamite 7 and the unaired/Encore eps - since I have them. ;p They might have done the movie as well, but I only have the RG release of that saved since what RG did of Macross 7 was generally higher video quality. Just in case you want to go hunt those down. ^^
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Old 2003-12-15, 07:34   Link #3
user6177
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Ah, OK. Well I still think the ASS subs are awful. So I will be waiting for AIA versions anyway.

Some time ago I downloaded the Dynamite eps from Kazaa Lite. I don't know which group subbed them, but the font was somewhat difficult to read and they called Basara Boxana (???). So I've deleted those versions from my HD already. The video quality wasn't very good, sometimes the picture was scrambled.

I don't know much about fansubgroups... who are RG? Do they use bittorrent?
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Old 2003-12-15, 09:08   Link #4
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Yeah, ASS happens to be a DVD ripping group, so they just took the subs in the HK bootlegs and ripped them, that's why the subs are so horrible.

Anyway, their Macross 7 rips are pretty old actually, they were done a few years ago I believe. They only started releasing them on BT because BT is a fairly new invention
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Old 2003-12-15, 10:41   Link #5
user6177
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So they'll probably release Dynamite etc. on BT too?
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Old 2003-12-15, 13:06   Link #6
Mylene
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDB666
New Macross 7 releases by Anime-In-Action

I think they're great! But they release too slow.
I still download the ASS versions because they are released lightyears faster. But I will replace every episode with AIA versions (because ASS subs suck, a LOT of errors. And because AIA subs the songs ( Yippie ) eventually (don't know what year yet).

I think every Macross has the ASS versions, just so they can watch it sooner.
I don't know if there are AIA staff members on this forum. If there are any, please answer this question.

Why don't you just release "Dynamite", "Encore", "P-L-U-S", "The Movie" and "Macross 7 00 Macross's Fastest Liftoff!" before the normal episodes? That way we (the Macross 7 fans that haven't seen everything yet) can at least watch something new.
As the project leader, and encoder/timer/editor/everything else pretty much with AiA's Macross 7, I felt I had to step in and respond.

Firstly, thank you for the compliments. I'm glad people are finally enjoying a PROPERLY done, HQ fansub or Macross 7. It's been too long. I remember seeing the series in .RM, and Dynamite off of 4th gen VHS fansubs. Seeing it in virbrant, bright colors, with a clear picture is like rediscovering the series all over again.

However, I do take issue with your "slow" comments, and comparing my work with ASS's work. I consider myself, and our group fansubbers. ASS however is just that. They're ass-quality DVD rippers. They do straight rips of Hong Kong DVD's, which are notorious for bad quality in audio, video, and most importantly...translations and scripts. If you're familiar with digital fansubbing at all, you'd know ASS's work takes at max as long as is needed to rip, and then encode the DVD. Say, an hour or maybe 2 per ep. One person with minimal computer skills can learn to do it.

I, on the other hand, actually WORK on Macross 7. While I did take a semi-shortcut by using Central Anime's original VHS scripts, there is still a LOT of work we do to the scripts to improve them. A lot has changed since the VHS days, and the limitations imposed on subbers then. I reveiew all the songs, make sure anything NOT originally subbed is added (for example, Ep 6 alone has 2 songs not done by Central), typeset, include a full OP/ED, etc etc. Plus a decent amount of work is done in the encoding process, as the video still needs a bit of "clean up" IMHO. Not to mention I've never found scripts for any of the P*L*U*S episodes, so each of those are fully translated.

All this equates to time. It takes TIME to get things RIGHT. Now, if you're satisfied with half-ASSed encodes that have horrid HK subs, and bad video quality, then so be it. But my Macross 7 is done as expediently as possible with the resources and staff I have available.

As for the other stuff in your main question; I'm currently having Ep 0 translated. It has always been my intent to release EVERY bit of Macross 7 available subtitled. So that means the Encores, Movie and Dynamite. P*L*U*S I am releasing in order, about every 5-6 eps, depending, since thats how they came with the LD's/VHS/DVD release. PLUS 02 was released with Episode 5 of the TV series. As for why I didn't release them first is simple; Why release middle/end episodes of a series BEFORE the first? You may have already seen Macross 7, but that doesn't mean EVERYONE has. I'm releasing the episodes in a coherant order, which follows the STORY. Movie will come out towards the latter half of the series, the Encores in sequence with the series itself as well. Dynamite LAST, where it belongs.

I don't mean to sound harsh, or like a bitch, so don't take my post that way. However, you must understand how many times I've heard this in forums, or in the channel. DO NOT COMPARE MY WORK TO ASS'S. We're not on the same level. If you want a PROPER release, download and enjoy and support mine. If you want a HK DVD rip, go get ASS's.

Mylene
Channel Co-Founder, Macross 7 Project Leader
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Old 2003-12-15, 14:12   Link #7
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I just wanna put in a word here in defense of ASS. I was talking to the guy who runs that project recently, and he is one hell of a nice guy.

So OK people, you can say the subs suck all you want, but as long as the ENCODE is good, ASS is doing their job, considering they have nothing to do with the subs on their M7 releases. Don't blame ASS for that, and don't diss on ASS, because they haven't done anything wrong.

Also, I'd like to point out that between the encodes for ASS and AIA, ASS's encodes play liquid-smooth on my machine (Which is somewhat low-end. Pentium II 400MHz), and AIA's encodes play like choppy crap (Mostyl due to the fact that my machine is slow. However, the only reason that happens is because whoever encoded it pt the quality settins too damn high. Like, unnescessarally so. I play back a lot of stuff that looks like just as good as a DVD on this machine, and it all plays plenty smooth, so I wouldn't think that ANYTHING should be that choppy.) , so with all due respect I think ASS does a better encoding job. The choppy video is a definite turn-off for me. Fact is, though I have all the releases so far by ASS and AIA, I haven't watched a single AIA release because the video is just too damn choppy.
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Old 2003-12-15, 14:45   Link #8
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I own the HK DVDs of M7 and I found the sub is 80% useless since most of them make no sense even to someone like me who knows only a bit japanese. I know chinese and I found they basically did japanese -> chinese -> english translation and you know how bad the english sub can be. The picture quality is not good since they have to squeeze all the TV, OVA series and extras in 6 disks. And worst of all, the previews were cut due to the limitation of the space.

I love M7 and I don't really regret getting the HK DVDs since that's the only way I can watch it even with the crappy sub. However, I'm currently collecting all R2 M7 DVDs to replace the HK DVDs so I can watch M7 in HQ and with the proper preview and Op/Ed. I applaud AiA's effort to fansub M7 and hope they can complete the project and introduce this great anime to more fans.
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Old 2003-12-15, 18:49   Link #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordwu
I own the HK DVDs of M7 and I found the sub is 80% useless since most of them make no sense even to someone like me who knows only a bit japanese. I know chinese and I found they basically did japanese -> chinese -> english translation and you know how bad the english sub can be. The picture quality is not good since they have to squeeze all the TV, OVA series and extras in 6 disks. And worst of all, the previews were cut due to the limitation of the space.

I love M7 and I don't really regret getting the HK DVDs since that's the only way I can watch it even with the crappy sub. However, I'm currently collecting all R2 M7 DVDs to replace the HK DVDs so I can watch M7 in HQ and with the proper preview and Op/Ed. I applaud AiA's effort to fansub M7 and hope they can complete the project and introduce this great anime to more fans.
Well, I'm pretty sure then that ASS uses a higher quality HK DVD for their project than the ones you own, because theirs have everything including the OP, ED and the previews (though they aren't subbed), and the picture quality isn't that bad at all.

But still, I like ASS for their Gundam releases which are better than M7 in terms of quality and they actually release them in a timely matter (though it's true that they are also rips of HK DVDs). For example they have almost completed Victory Gundam while MSG-AG is releasing theirs at a pace of 3 episodes per year which means the series will probably be finally be complete when I'm in my 40's.
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Old 2003-12-15, 19:57   Link #10
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whats episode 00 about???
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Old 2003-12-15, 20:35   Link #11
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We can't win with you people... I had a nice long reply typed out to post, but the stupid browser lost it and I don't want to waste more time on leechers who may or may not even understand what I wrote.

The basics are... we're FANSUBBING for us, yeah, but for the people who enjoy what we do, too. While we try to do things consciensiously, your tastes, computers, attitudes, they're not our concern or responsibility.

So if you like how or what we're doing, then it's great to serve ya; if you don't, you really do belong with the speedy over-subbers and cheap DVD-rippers, we don't need you.


Thanks for your time :P
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Old 2003-12-15, 20:52   Link #12
Mylene
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Quote:
Originally Posted by festosis
whats episode 00 about???
Basically, Episode 0 was the "teaser" or "promo" episode that came out before the series. It was set as kinda like a documentary talk show, live action, with a discussion of Macross up until then. There was interviews with certain people about Macross, and with the voice actors.

It's an interesting little tidbit, that deserves subbing.

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Old 2003-12-15, 21:23   Link #13
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I cant believe there are some who actually DEFEND the quality of the ASS work! Its not even a Frickin' FANSUB, ITS A STRAIGHT RIP FROM A BAD HK DVD!!!!! The translations BARELY RESEMBLE ENGLISH at all! Are you all STUPID?????!!!!!

The Name of teh Group says it ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ASS!!!!!!!!!1111
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Old 2003-12-15, 23:51   Link #14
Wandering A.I.
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Meh, it's better than the .rm set of Macross 7 I had before ASS stepped in, especially for me considering I don't need the subs very much anyway having studied Japanese for several years. ^^ It's not like anyone has defended the subs. Indeed the only mentions of subs before Mylene's post said they were bad or AiA's were better. ;p I've seen some fansub tapes of Macross 7 floating around, but that would cost money without even directly supporting the creators and still the video quality would be below what ASS released for free.

So considering I like Macross 7, but not enough to order the Japanese DVDs as I do some shows, it was great having those encodes there and I appreciate it. The biggest factor for me liking an anime is actually the artwork and what neat stuff they can do visually. I read sci-fi and manga, both of which can pull story lines and concepts the animated format could never handle anyway IMHO. So getting to see the series in decent video quality as I did helped a lot in deciding to buy it if it ever comes out in the US.

Ripping, encoding, and distributing does take plenty of work, not as much as fansubbing, but it's still ungrateful to claim otherwise especially of something provided free for fans. If someone had complained ASS does US licensed stuff and distributes to people in the US or that buying that hkdvd hurt the sales of the series that little bit and supported pirates they would at least have the high moral ground to stand on. Instead I see mainly a bunch of pointless bashing with a sentence or two of facts that pretty much everybody already acknowledged anyway. Sad how often this sort of situation comes up.

Edit: spelling mainly, yuck

Last edited by Wandering A.I.; 2003-12-16 at 00:10.
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Old 2003-12-16, 04:37   Link #15
user6177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mylene
They're ass-quality DVD rippers.
Excuse me, but I did not know how ASS works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mylene
All this equates to time. It takes TIME to get things RIGHT. Now, if you're satisfied with half-ASSed encodes that have horrid HK subs, and bad video quality, then so be it. But my Macross 7 is done as expediently as possible with the resources and staff I have available.
Yes, of course. I am not satisfied with ASS files at all. But I still wanna know what happens next, so I download them anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mylene
It has always been my intent to release EVERY bit of Macross 7 available subtitled.
Yes, I know. I've read your FAQ (which, at the time of writing this reply, is not available). I thank you for that... Domo arigato.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mylene
I don't mean to sound harsh, or like a bitch, so don't take my post that way. However, you must understand how many times I've heard this in forums, or in the channel. DO NOT COMPARE MY WORK TO ASS'S. We're not on the same level.
And I did not mean to offend you. Like I said earlier, I did not know ASS just rips their stuff.
I am not comparing your work to ASS either, that would be a waste of time 'cause your work is clearly superior in every way.

Last edited by user6177; 2003-12-16 at 09:07.
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Old 2003-12-16, 04:48   Link #16
user6177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N-Bomb
We can't win with you people...
You're still the best M7 subbers I know. Don't blame for my total lack of knowledge of how some fansubgroups work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N-Bomb
I had a nice long reply typed out to post, but the stupid browser lost it
Useless info --> I get the same thing sometimes. That's why I write my replies in notepad first, so I can just copy-paste if anything goes wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N-Bomb
we're FANSUBBING for us, yeah, but for the people who enjoy what we do, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by N-Bomb
So if you like how or what we're doing, then it's great to serve ya; if you don't, you really do belong with the speedy over-subbers and cheap DVD-rippers, we don't need you.
And thank you for that. I will replace every ASS file with AIA anyway, like I said in my 1st post. But you do get my point, yes? I haven't seen the series before, so I wanna know what happens next.




About this topic... I did not mean to start a fight... I am just a curious M7 fan.
I hope I have made my point.

Last edited by user6177; 2003-12-16 at 09:09.
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Old 2003-12-16, 10:51   Link #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garylisk
I just wanna put in a word here in defense of ASS. I was talking to the guy who runs that project recently, and he is one hell of a nice guy.

So OK people, you can say the subs suck all you want, but as long as the ENCODE is good, ASS is doing their job, considering they have nothing to do with the subs on their M7 releases. Don't blame ASS for that, and don't diss on ASS, because they haven't done anything wrong.

For me, AIA's release doesn't have any discernable benefit over ASS's. Subtitles can only ever give you a general idea of what something means in Japanese anyway, and the hilarious errors kind of help you keep that in mind. For a real fanatic of the series, I'm sure they would highly appreciate AIA's extra work though.

However, on the issue of them not having done anything wrong...well, let's just say they don't have a terrribly strict policy regarding licensed vs. unlicensed anime. In fact they probably release more licensed stuff than not.
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Old 2003-12-16, 18:13   Link #18
Radd
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I can understand the harsh feelings towards the ASS version of Mac7, since it's just aa straight rip of the HK bootlegs. I think their intentions are good, just want to share the magic, and all that. Still, it just doesn't sit well with me to see people calling it a fansub, when it's really not. I think we can also all appreciate Anime in Action's most excellent efforts towards giving fans of the series a good quality encode with good subtitles.

(Of course, as big of a fan as I am of Macross 7, Gao Gai Gar is the reason that AiA's my hero!)
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Old 2003-12-16, 23:47   Link #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbm5
For me, AIA's release doesn't have any discernable benefit over ASS's. Subtitles can only ever give you a general idea of what something means in Japanese anyway, and the hilarious errors kind of help you keep that in mind.
This is quite possibly one of the dumbest things I've read on these forums.
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Old 2003-12-16, 23:58   Link #20
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BDB666 - I'm not singling anyone out, so don't take what I say personally (Unless it applies to you )

cbm5 - do you mean AiA or ASS does licensed? I'm not really sure who that was aimed at.

And thanks Radd. One problem fansubbers face is that their work is rarely acknowleged as anything more than being an off-the-shelf product, so hearing nice things always brightens our day.

I think the big problem facing fansubbing these days, aside from a glut of groups all doing the same thing, is that the crowd now tends to value speed over quality. We're not a large subbing-machine like Aone or anime-keep, but we do honest work, even if it takes a little more time.

It's just really obvious that none of these kids remember the days when fansubs were HARD to find and to even get in any kind of good quality.

And yeah, let's keep making the distinction between fansubbers and DVD rippers, shall we?
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