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Old 2008-08-19, 20:19   Link #301
justinstrife
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Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata View Post
The only time I get a feeling from Alto of something like love is in ep 12 when Alto takes off in his Valkyrie to get a closer look at Ranka part-way through her song - there was no "need" for him to do that. It feels kinda like "I just wanted to get closer to her". Well, actually, there's also that scene in ep 5 when he sees Ranka going off with Michael and seems like he wanted to go after them - kinda feels like jealousy. However, both cases are rather faint and subtle. There's certainly some cases of things he's done for Sheryl that could be interpreted as being out of love, but equally could be out a of sense of duty/responsibility.
Speaking of doing something when there was no need, don't forget when he and Sheryl were flying around in episode 8's end, and he stopped to show her the sunset. He had no reason at all to do that either. Just as he also took her to see the Zentraidi farm and the mall in episode 5. He wasn't obligated to do any of that, and she didn't ask him either. So as he's done things for Ranka, he's also done things for Sheryl.
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Old 2008-08-19, 21:10   Link #302
MaiHikari
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Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata View Post
The only time I get a feeling from Alto of something like love is in ep 12 when Alto takes off in his Valkyrie to get a closer look at Ranka part-way through her song - there was no "need" for him to do that. It feels kinda like "I just wanted to get closer to her".
Perhaps he wanted to get a closer look? Plus the girl's in the middle of open fire, she could get attacked--and she did. Again, safety.

Quote:
Well, actually, there's also that scene in ep 5 when he sees Ranka going off with Michael and seems like he wanted to go after them - kinda feels like jealousy. However, both cases are rather faint and subtle.
If he was jealous, he wouldn't have sent Mikhail to tell Ranka that he's gone to Galia 4 for his birthday. He would have sent someone less of a womanizer.

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I rather get the feeling from him that he's all too aware of his own problems and that he's trying to resolve them, but knows he hasn't done it yet - he may be keeping quiet about who he really loves precisely because he feels he hasn't dealt with his own problems yet.
I think you're giving too much credit to the guy who's consistently void of any emotion but anger. I don't see him being aware of any of his problems or trying to resolve his problems in the series. What were his problems? Besides constipation. If anything, he's trying to run away from his past. He just wanted to fly. He's definitely trying to take the easy way out by pretending to be dumb. He probably didn't want to hurt one by chosing the other.
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Old 2008-08-19, 23:34   Link #303
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I'd say he treats her too seriously for "imouto", though "kouhai" seems plausible. However, he acts rather relaxed around her and it doesn't really feel like he's taken her under his wing, as it were - he's not trying to shape or guide her.
He acts rather relaxed around her Because he doesnt feel any romantic tension when he's with her, IMO. EP 13 was the 1st & only time he considers that she could possibly be more than a friend. I believe this is so, because in his flashbacks after she was captured by the vajra, the ranka that he remembers are all from ep 12-13. I think he first becomes vaguely aware of ranka's feelings in ep 12 when Michael explicitly tells Alto to consider rankas feelings & that she came all this way for u despite the fact that she had a concert to give the following day. Considering this & the fact that Alto believes Sheryl is just fooling around with him, makes his attention shift towards ranka understandable, for the reasons that if u were certain that the girl u probably had romantic feelings for was just fooling around with u and not inclined to ever take u srsly, u wud obviously try to explore other options which in this case is ranka whom he likes fairly well and who is obviously Genuinely interested in him.
But after ep 12-14, if he really was in love with ranka, he would hav made his move since he's obviosly not aware of Sheryls feelings, theres nothin holding him back, or even a single blush in ep 7 when ranka tell him they're alone wud have sufficed. Instead the next time we see him blush is when Sheryl is in his room & they realize hw close their faces are which makes me think that she still has sm sort of a hold on him. Even in ep 19, Alto still isnt aware of Sheryl's feelings, which is quite evident to us when he tells Michael that Sheryl is as fickle & abusive as ever, confirming that While ranka's feelings for him are getting clearer, Sheryl's feelings are still a mystery to him.
Of course not to say this is exactly hw alto feels, just my intrepretation coupled with wishful thinking cos it all makes sense to me this way.


Quote:
If he did fall in love with one of the two (it's not like you "decide" to love someone) long ago and has been keeping quiet about it, I'd say he's more likely to go with Ranka, though I can see a couple of things that could have made him fall for Sheryl. There's definitely a couple of points early on where Ranka seems to have affected him, but to Alto, Sheryl's attitude when trapped in the shelter may have had a big impact on him, for example (Alto's a guy who hates to feel powerless and he may have been impressed by her example).
I guess i feel differently here. If he did fall in love with one of them long ago, I'd say that Sheryl is the more likely choice, cos ep 19 pretty much confirmed that it was Sheryls take on destiny that had the most impact on him in joining SMS. So it seems like the couple of points earlier on when it seemed like ranka was the one who had affected him, isnt the case at all. But Sheryl was the one that affected him the most, so when u think of it like that, Sheryl seems more plausible.

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The only time I get a feeling from Alto of something like love is in ep 12 when Alto takes off in his Valkyrie to get a closer look at Ranka part-way through her song - there was no "need" for him to do that. It feels kinda like "I just wanted to get closer to her".
Like Mai said, Ranka was open to attack in that scene & he responded accordingly, not to mention he was a little stunned by her bold behaviour. He ha always thought of her as timid( his own words in ep 13) but to see that timid girl he knew do something that brave was an impressive sight, hence his reaction. Did'nt feel like love at all, it was kinda similar to Alto telling Sheryl she's pretty incredible in ep 1 when he messed up the corkscrew thing & then she tells him to continue flying, consequently changing the audiences reaction from panic to awe. Ranka impressed him in that ep & he tells her so, as simple as that.

Quote:
Well, actually, there's also that scene in ep 5 when he sees Ranka going off with Michael and seems like he wanted to go after them - kinda feels like jealousy. However, both cases are rather faint and subtle.
Thats what I intially thought too, but when i watched those scenes again, it felt more like surprise to me & before he could register what he'd seen, Shery says smthin to him and pulls him towards the train, hence y he looks back, also did'nt luca tell him that Ozma had ordered them to look for Ranka, not to mention Ranka herself called him earlier asking for his advice. Now, If he was really that worried abt Ranka, he would have been firm with Sheryl & told her to give his charm back, his friend was in trouble and he needs to look for her, but he doesnt. I'm guessing he figured that since Michael was with ranka, she'd be fine.

Quote:
There's certainly some cases of things he's done for Sheryl that could be interpreted as being out of love, but equally could be out a of sense of duty/responsibility.
I'd agree if u had said out of friendship, but I dont see hw duty/ responsibility fits into the Sheryl/Alto relationship equation except for when he was her bodyguard in ep 11. While most of the things he has done for Ranka does come under that category.




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I rather get the feeling from him that he's all too aware of his own problems and that he's trying to resolve them, but knows he hasn't done it yet - he may be keeping quiet about who he really loves precisely because he feels he hasn't dealt with his own problems yet.
I'm not too sure on this either, we'll have to wait for more info on Alto's past to know for sure.
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Old 2008-08-20, 00:58   Link #304
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I was surfing the threads and came across a poll of the best pilots in Macross and Alto is about midrank. Have we seen any indication of that onscreen yet? Of course he has shown to be fearless while performing The Daring Rescue (Luca and Ranka) but have his technical skills matched that? Admittedly I have only seen Frontier and Macross Plus and am playing catchup on the original series with video sites and Wikipedia but my understanding was that the pilot protagonists of Macross were supposed to be a cut above the norm.
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Old 2008-08-20, 01:06   Link #305
.Mero
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I was surfing the threads and came across a poll of the best pilots in Macross and Alto is about midrank. Have we seen any indication of that onscreen yet? Of course he has shown to be fearless while performing The Daring Rescue (Luca and Ranka) but have his technical skills matched that? Admittedly I have only seen Frontier and Macross Plus and am playing catchup on the original series with video sites and Wikipedia but my understanding was that the pilot protagonists of Macross were supposed to be a cut above the norm.
Protagonists where good, but not always the best. So far only in Macross Plus is the protagonist (one of) the best.

In fact in Zero, shin is an awfull VF pilot, while being an ace in his norma F14 Tomcat
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Old 2008-08-20, 02:41   Link #306
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Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata
I rather get the feeling from him that he's all too aware of his own problems and that he's trying to resolve them, but knows he hasn't done it yet - he may be keeping quiet about who he really loves precisely because he feels he hasn't dealt with his own problems yet.
I think you're giving too much credit to the guy who's consistently void of any emotion but anger. I don't see him being aware of any of his problems or trying to resolve his problems in the series. What were his problems? Besides constipation. If anything, he's trying to run away from his past. He just wanted to fly. He's definitely trying to take the easy way out by pretending to be dumb. He probably didn't want to hurt one by chosing the other.
I will have to agree with MaiHikari here. Alto really is an emotional idiot in that he lacks emotion except for the occasional surprise moment. Outside that he is mostly angry and filled with angst. It's actually quite surprising since he was "supposedly" an actor of great acclaim. One would think that this skill would translate to at least feigned emotional responses. Instead we are subjugated to an attitude and tone that is akin to a rebellious teenager. And yes I know you will say, "But he IS a teenager.". I would agree with his response if perhaps he was projecting them to his parents. This is not uncommon. But to show this kind of adolescent hormonal outburst to his friends, his fellow pilots and to generally everyone is no longer rebellious. It's called being an asshole. Which is what I've viewed Alto as for quite a few episodes now. He needs a serious attitude adjustment, much better dialog and the writers needs to have him portray skills that he would have had in his previous career and not ignore them. No matter how much he may hate his father and his previous career you do not simply forget.
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Old 2008-08-20, 04:11   Link #307
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I will have to agree with MaiHikari here. Alto really is an emotional idiot in that he lacks emotion except for the occasional surprise moment. Outside that he is mostly angry and filled with angst. It's actually quite surprising since he was "supposedly" an actor of great acclaim. One would think that this skill would translate to at least feigned emotional responses. Instead we are subjugated to an attitude and tone that is akin to a rebellious teenager. And yes I know you will say, "But he IS a teenager.". I would agree with his response if perhaps he was projecting them to his parents. This is not uncommon. But to show this kind of adolescent hormonal outburst to his friends, his fellow pilots and to generally everyone is no longer rebellious. It's called being an asshole. Which is what I've viewed Alto as for quite a few episodes now. He needs a serious attitude adjustment, much better dialog and the writers needs to have him portray skills that he would have had in his previous career and not ignore them. No matter how much he may hate his father and his previous career you do not simply forget.
I disagree here. Yeah, Alto is angry a lot, but most of it can be put down to him being teased as a "princess" by his friends, his frustration that he cannot fly as high as heŽd like ( "The sky is too low" ), stand-offishness about his past as an actor and anger at the Vajra. That sure sounds like a lot of anger, but all are understandable parts.

He is emotionally withdrawn and moody, but he also displays a good lot of camaraderie and friendship towards his friends and that has evolved since the series has progressed.

At the beginning he was being actively teased as "Always second-place princess Alto" by Michael, which spoke to an openly rivalrous friendship. Since Alto joined SMS, we still had rows between the two regarding the question if Alto is serious about his commitment as a pilot, but since the incident about Michaels sniper skills, the two havenŽt really quarreled at all.

Luca has always had an relationship of admiration towards Alto, and beside Alto getting angry one time in the first episode ( when the topic of Altos past as an actor came up ) we have had nothing but friendship between the two of them.

We havenŽt seen Alto being angry at Ranka since episode three , and even then he caught himself very quickly, as soon as he saw that Ranka was just being sincere in her emotions.

That leaves Sheryl as the only one to whom Alto is still showing anger, which comes out of their usual bickering over different topics. Even so, Alto has shown tenderness and concern for her many times and the two of them are talking to each other as equal adults ( something which cannot be said of at all for interaction between Alto and Ranka ).

The constant butting of horns between the two is actually helpful for both of their personality growths.


But as I mentioned before, Alto is very moody. He internalizes a lot of his emotions, because he has to face many problems stemming from his past, his aspirations as a pilot and fears for his friends. He definitely has a problem expressing overt joy, so his more free displays of anger simply exerbate this character trait of his. But it is only a matter of looking a bit more closely to see that he really cares about his friends.

I get that Alto is more difficult to like as a character than someone as awesome as Sheryl, but if you care to look a bit under the hood, there is a lot there which one can care about.

One thing which I think we all agree about is that he needs to tone down on the GAR screaming in combat, though...

He reminds me a lot of Squall from Final Fantasy VIII, who also was very withdrawn, but who, as the game progressed, came more and more out of his shell. Although Squall at the beginning sometimes almost seemed autistic.

Last edited by magnuskn; 2008-08-20 at 04:29.
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Old 2008-08-20, 07:22   Link #308
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But since we don't really know why he left the stage in the first place, it's hard to say for sure. It could be something really serious and painful - maybe not about acting as such, but being an onnagata. He definitely doesn't like being treated like a girl, yet played one on stage. Or it could be unrelated to that. But for now, I'm expecting a fairly straightforward answer - for example, Yasaburo seems just a bit too keen to get Alto back.
I'm guessing that it'll have something to do with his Father. Though saying that i hope it's not that long until we find out why he left, and it could be a confrontation with his Father that'll bring out the truth.

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One thing which I think we all agree about is that he needs to tone down on the GAR screaming in combat, though...
The only place Alto has to let of some steam is in battle, so i don't see why he should tone down.
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Old 2008-08-20, 07:45   Link #309
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I'm guessing that it'll have something to do with his Father. Though saying that i hope it's not that long until we find out why he left, and it could be a confrontation with his Father that'll bring out the truth.
If my speculations regarding Altos father are correct, we may not see a confrontation. Ever. WeŽll see tomorrow.

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The only place Alto has to let of some steam is in battle, so i don't see why he should tone down.
IŽve got two friends who also watch Frontier and are always massively annoyed when he begins to yell. ^^
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Old 2008-08-20, 07:54   Link #310
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My memory isn't perfect but the happiest moments in the show for Alto, that I can remember, have been with Ranka. Maybe I shouldn't say happy but more content? i.e. Less yelling and emotional outbursts and more calm and sedated talking. I think of Ranka singing Aimo on the hill and him listening, I think of Ranka speaking to him in her room, I think of many of the meetings with Ranka. Happiest moment with Sheryl that wasn't a surprise moment was probably that first date they went on. I don't necessarily count the kiss on the cheek after the date or the kiss on the lips at the movie set due to his reaction after each.

You know that would be a good test of fandom. Count the number of smiles or grins Alto has done in the series and who was he with at the time?
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Old 2008-08-20, 07:59   Link #311
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My memory isn't perfect but the happiest moments in the show for Alto, that I can remember, have been with Ranka. Maybe I shouldn't say happy but more content? i.e. Less yelling and emotional outbursts and more calm and sedated talking. I think of Ranka singing Aimo on the hill and him listening, I think of Ranka speaking to him in her room, I think of many of the meetings with Ranka. Happiest moment with Sheryl that wasn't a surprise moment was probably that first date they went on. I don't necessarily count the kiss on the cheek after the date or the kiss on the lips at the movie set due to his reaction after each.

You know that would be a good test of fandom. Count the number of smiles or grins Alto has done in the series and who was he with at the time?
No need. Most of them were with Michael and Luca.

And, yeah, Ranka has made him smile more, which of course is easier for her, because she just wants to spend time with him.

Sheryl challenges him, which makes them bicker more. Not to mention that for the last 9 episodes she has been sick, which is no subject which helps relaxed dialogue.
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Old 2008-08-20, 08:00   Link #312
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IŽve got two friends who also watch Frontier and are always massively annoyed when he begins to yell. ^^
Ah well, some people just don't like over the top manly passion.
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Old 2008-08-20, 08:10   Link #313
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Ah well, some people just don't like over the top manly passion.
I think we can all agree that the manliest man on Frontier is Ozma. And he only went all "AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!" when he was doing his Big Speech to the background song of Fire Bomber.

BOMBAAAAAAAH!
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Old 2008-08-20, 08:26   Link #314
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What to say about Alto...

Well, he is probably one of the few who can't be more feminine looking. I saw some people actually rejecting the series of the main dude's face. I'm glad that the show itself makes fun of it.

He pretends not to care but he breaks through in the end. A typical anime guy who don't know what the other side is feeling, although he does give few tips to Ranka but she excepts them mostly because of the love/crush.

He is a good pilot, quite a bold one, which earned him success which I don't fancy all that much. He had those ''almost killed'' situations, but thats not enough. I want to see him shot down miserably at least once in the middle of battle. Why? Don't know, I just don't want him to be among the best cuz other main characters in other Macross series weren't such skilled as this guy. Ar at least I think so.
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Old 2008-08-20, 09:03   Link #315
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Protagonists where good, but not always the best. So far only in Macross Plus is the protagonist (one of) the best.

In fact in Zero, shin is an awfull VF pilot, while being an ace in his norma F14 Tomcat
Thanks for the clarification. I was just wondering if it was an intentional decision on Kawamori's part to go a different route with male lead or if he just hasn't had time to show the development yet. Such as being busy setting up the other two parties in the triangle and showing the plotting of Leon and Grace.

Last edited by Deryns; 2008-08-20 at 09:06. Reason: Clarity
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Old 2008-08-20, 10:34   Link #316
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Protagonists where good, but not always the best. So far only in Macross Plus is the protagonist (one of) the best.

In fact in Zero, shin is an awfull VF pilot, while being an ace in his norma F14 Tomcat
Shin was definitely making progress though. The last two episodes showed he was getting better all the time.

But yeah he was probably one of the only F14 jocks who could avoid a missile spam.
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Old 2008-08-22, 00:14   Link #317
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I suppose now that Alto has gotten the obligatory "growing up" moment we can start to see some improved development on his part. Someone mentioned the episode forum there was a lot of Alto hate by the posters my guess is this due to his indecisiveness on the triangle, which I am starting to understand. He really needs to make a decision, any decision.

Heck at this point I would take Ranka as the choice if only for the sake of progress.(Now fleeing the wrath of Tak and the other fans of the Galactic Fairy.)
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Old 2008-08-22, 00:18   Link #318
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Heck at this point I would take Ranka as the choice if only for the sake of progress.(Now fleeing the wrath of Tak and the other fans of the Galactic Fairy.)

Our Orbital Ion Cannons of Wrath will find you anywhere, heretic!
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Old 2008-08-22, 03:14   Link #319
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I suppose now that Alto has gotten the obligatory "growing up" moment we can start to see some improved development on his part. Someone mentioned the episode forum there was a lot of Alto hate by the posters my guess is this due to his indecisiveness on the triangle, which I am starting to understand. He really needs to make a decision, any decision.

Heck at this point I would take Ranka as the choice if only for the sake of progress.(Now fleeing the wrath of Tak and the other fans of the Galactic Fairy.)
Klan needs comforting, nuff said

Not that he could handle Klan, too much woman for pretty boy
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Old 2008-08-22, 08:21   Link #320
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Klan needs comforting, nuff said

Not that he could handle Klan, too much woman for pretty boy
I made a comment about the possibility of this in the episode thread. My thought was that depending on how Alto reacts to Klan next episode they could have some sort of bonding experience over the loss of Michel thus setting up a relationship of sorts between the two of them. As for the second part of your post I am not sure if you mean handle in the romantic sense. If you do we would have to see how being Songstress of Despair works out for Sheryl. If see really dies then I can see it happening, this would be the second person that Alto lost that was central to his world. Three if you count Michel. She can understand that and help him come to terms. Someone in the romance thread( sorry for not crediting but I didn't want search 80 pages of posts trying to find your name) mentioned Alto's voice actor saying in an interview who he ends up with will be a suprise. This would be more of a suprise than Alto and Ranka getting together for the sake of Frontier. Not to mention more original.
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