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Old 2011-11-06, 16:39   Link #441
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
So, basically a "Yeah, they totally made love.".
You just like finding excuses to say that.
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Old 2011-11-06, 17:13   Link #442
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You just like finding excuses to say that.
And thanks to karice for giving me another one.
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Old 2011-11-06, 17:59   Link #443
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Originally Posted by Hollowgolem View Post
Re Kabuki training: That's pretty interesting. Alto's relationship with his family/past was something I wish the series had spent a little more time fleshing out. He seemed like a pretty shallow character not because of how he was designed, but how he was treated by the media itself, as though there were more interesting dynamics to him that never got explored very much.
Hm...I feel that it was something they expected Japanese audiences to know, or at the very least, guess, especially given his amazing cooking skills as revealed in episode 23. There's a lot of character background that viewers have to guess at, which is good because quite a few interpretations are possible. Though it does get annoying when certain groups insist that their interpretations are the only possible ones because 'it's not shown in the series'. I don't know - there are a lot of subtle things that I personally feel many viewers probably haven't realised (or would rather ignore). Though I'm sure that applies to me too - I need to watch the series again sometime.


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No, Saotome was a reference to Ranma 1/2. The said character can change into a girl by dipping in hot water.

- Tak
Really? Was that mentioned somewhere?

On a quasi-related note, I am guessing that the light novel author took his pen name from Ranma: Kodachi Ukyou...


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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
And thanks to karice for giving me another one.
I was feeling generous. I had been sitting on that one for around seven months...

But according to your methods, it's still not absolutely confirmed on screen, now, is it?
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Last edited by karice67; 2011-11-06 at 21:16.
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Old 2011-11-06, 18:08   Link #444
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I was feeling generous. I had been sitting on that one for around seven months...

But according to your methods, it's still not absolutely confirmed on screen, now, is it?
Aw, c'mon, I said that I extrapolate the most logical and likely outcome based on what we see on screen. ^^ It's pretty clear that Sheryl and Alto had at least that one night ( and many others I presume... although that's just wishful thinking and a bit of "what would two teenagers in love do with their free time" ).
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Old 2011-11-06, 20:30   Link #445
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Hm...I feel that it was something they expected Japanese audiences to know, or at the very least, guess, especially given his amazing cooking skills as revealed in episode 23. There's a lot of character background that viewers have to guess at, which is good because quite a few interpretations are possible. Though it does get annoying when certain groups insist that their interpretations are the only possible ones because 'it's not shown in the series'. I don't know - there are a lot of subtle things that I personally feel many viewers probably haven't realised (or would rather ignore). Though I'm sure that applies to me too - I need to watch the series again sometime.
Well, I'm sure one could guess at what happened if they were to see a barebones skeleton of the plot, too. The reason one watches a TV series/movie/play/reads a book/etc. is to see it actually fleshed out, in detail.

As I rewatch the series with my girl friend I'm seeing more and more where they cut corners, where they gave themselves loose ends with no time to tie them up. That whole "25 episodes" thing just wasn't a good idea, methinks.
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Old 2011-11-06, 21:06   Link #446
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No, Saotome was a reference to Ranma 1/2. The said character can change into a girl by dipping in hot water.

- Tak
Karice is right, Tak. You're remembering what Shaloom's linter notes said.
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Old 2011-11-06, 21:25   Link #447
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Karice is right, Tak. You're remembering what Shaloom's linter notes said.
DAMN THAT GUY! He confused me!

WAGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

Though on a second thought... its not exactly a very common last name. Couple people showed up... a theater actor known for playing female roles (*Gasp*) and of course, Ranma...

- Tak
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Old 2011-11-07, 01:05   Link #448
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Aw, c'mon, I said that I extrapolate the most logical and likely outcome based on what we see on screen. ^^ It's pretty clear that Sheryl and Alto had at least that one night ( and many others I presume... although that's just wishful thinking and a bit of "what would two teenagers in love do with their free time" ).
On the wishful thinking - I personally think there's less evidence for that than for 'Alto having identity/gender issues'.

But would it surprise you if I said that no one has to convince me that they slept together that night? Though what I feel this means about their relationship is very different from most people, or so it seems.

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Originally Posted by Hollowgolem View Post
Well, I'm sure one could guess at what happened if they were to see a barebones skeleton of the plot, too. The reason one watches a TV series/movie/play/reads a book/etc. is to see it actually fleshed out, in detail.

As I rewatch the series with my girl friend I'm seeing more and more where they cut corners, where they gave themselves loose ends with no time to tie them up. That whole "25 episodes" thing just wasn't a good idea, methinks.
Hm...see, I would absolutely hate it if a show I'm watching straight out told me everything I needed to know. I quite like how Macross generally speaking has heaps of rewatch value - although I've only really applied this to Frontier so far. I usually pick up something new each time I watch an episode, or the movies, and that's one of the draws for me personally.

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DAMN THAT GUY! He confused me!

WAGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

Though on a second thought... its not exactly a very common last name. Couple people showed up... a theater actor known for playing female roles (*Gasp*) and of course, Ranma...

- Tak
aww....it's ok, Takky. *pats* We'll get it all out of your system yet

It isn't - the Japanese wiki lists only around 20 people (the rest being characters/stories etc), of which most are stage names. Though Saotome Taiichi was already gaining in popularity by the time Kawamori et al conceived of Frontier (2005) and made Alto a kabuki onnagata. But I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't any such connection either - the meaning of the name (早乙女=young female rice planter/young girl) is, in some ways, very fitting for a kabuki troupe.
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Old 2011-11-07, 01:15   Link #449
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aww....it's ok, Takky. *pats* We'll get it all out of your system yet
Only if you do it personally

- Tak
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Old 2011-11-07, 03:00   Link #450
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Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
On the wishful thinking - I personally think there's less evidence for that than for 'Alto having identity/gender issues'.

But would it surprise you if I said that no one has to convince me that they slept together that night? Though what I feel this means about their relationship is very different from most people, or so it seems.
You seem to have very different ideas of what the majority of things mean about Alto and the relationship between Sheryl and Alto. Which is fine, everybodyhas the right to their own opinions.
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Old 2011-11-07, 07:19   Link #451
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Only if you do it personally
Laying it on quite thickly there, ain't ya? Just be careful Magnus doesn't jump you at some dark corner...

And I'd like to know why Sheryl and Alto sleeping together would make him a jerk... Personally, I just don't see it.
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Old 2011-11-07, 08:58   Link #452
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Hm...see, I would absolutely hate it if a show I'm watching straight out told me everything I needed to know. I quite like how Macross generally speaking has heaps of rewatch value - although I've only really applied this to Frontier so far. I usually pick up something new each time I watch an episode, or the movies, and that's one of the draws for me personally.
Oh, having implied development, etc. is okay to an extent. It just feels like that angle, Alot/family/stage stuff, got about an episode (tops) of combined direct treatment, and then became a sort of subcurrent in the show, coloring everything, but with little or no more exploration or resolution.
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Old 2011-11-07, 10:26   Link #453
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Only if you do it personally

- Tak
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Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
Laying it on quite thickly there, ain't ya? Just be careful Magnus doesn't jump you at some dark corner...
Good grief...something tells me I'd better return to lurkdom...



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Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
And I'd like to know why Sheryl and Alto sleeping together would make him a jerk... Personally, I just don't see it.
Hm...let's just say that I disagree with the last thing that Tak said on this.

And no, I don't quite agree with the 'pity' argument that PASH! writers decided to go with for the Frontier Animation File. But I know just about everyone who still cares about it will disagree with my reasoning anyway, so may I just concede here?



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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
You seem to have very different ideas of what the majority of things mean about Alto and the relationship between Sheryl and Alto. Which is fine, everybodyhas the right to their own opinions.
About the episode 22 scene, yes. But I can probably find you at least 5 others on AS alone whose ideas about Alto are similar to mine.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollowgolem View Post
Oh, having implied development, etc. is okay to an extent. It just feels like that angle, Alot/family/stage stuff, got about an episode (tops) of combined direct treatment, and then became a sort of subcurrent in the show, coloring everything, but with little or no more exploration or resolution.
Hm...I felt that it was covered adequately. And resolved. You're rewatching it now, right? Wait til you get to episode 25. There is an important quote there that you can link to Alto's past and trace back through the series. Though I'll leave you to make what you want of it.


======
p.s. anyone who wants to check that interview, the question and answer are on p.g. 89 of the Official Fanbook.

Quote:
(The previous Q&A dealt with how Alto really doesn't understand the Vajra in the TV series, which leads on to...)

--But if Alto is united/joined with Sheryl, or perhaps with Ranka, isn't he fated to contract the V-type virus? And if that happens, won't he also come to understand the Vajra?

Kawamori: To contract it, huh? ...yeah, he may well have contracted it (laughs). However, if he contracts it normally and it goes to his brain, [it won't work].

Spoiler for Japanese:
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Last edited by karice67; 2011-11-07 at 19:06.
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Old 2011-11-07, 10:30   Link #454
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About the episode 22 scene, yes. But I can probably find you at least 5 others on AS alone whose ideas about Alto are similar to mine.
And everybody has the right to her/his opinion. I am only quite certain that my own view works better for myself and for the character. But I could of course be spectacularly wrong.
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Old 2011-11-07, 10:37   Link #455
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
And everybody has the right to her/his opinion. I am only quite certain that my own view works better for myself and for the character. But I could of course be spectacularly wrong.
Un. I don't begrudge any of you your opinions either. Just wanted to emphasise that mine aren't as unique as you seem to be making them out to be.
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Old 2011-11-07, 10:42   Link #456
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And we all respect each other's right to their opinions, right? RIGHT? Right...

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Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
Good grief...something tells me I'd better return to lurkdom...
Nah, shipping is fun.

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Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
Hm...let's just say that I disagree with the last thing that Tak said on this.
And what would that be, again? Sorry, but I sometimes spaz out when you two lovebirds start at it...

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Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
And no, I don't quite agree with the 'pity' argument that PASH! writers decided to go with for the Frontier Animation File. But I know just about everyone who still cares about it will disagree with my reasoning anyway, so may I just concede here?
Okay, I'll bite: what exactly was that argument? I don't really recall it being discussed here - did some of the writers claim that Alto slept with Sheryl simply out of pity?
What are they, insane?
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Old 2011-11-07, 11:04   Link #457
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Un. I don't begrudge any of you your opinions either. Just wanted to emphasise that mine aren't as unique as you seem to be making them out to be.
No, no, you misunderstood. I was trying to emphase that I think my opinion is my own, but I may be totally wrong, although I think I have a very good case. It wasn't meant as any sort of put-down or somesuch.
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Old 2011-11-07, 11:19   Link #458
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@karice67: the whole thing about Alto being based on Taichi Saotome may not be too far-fetched.

Taichi has immense popularity for a kabuki (onnagata) actor, and it may be attributed to his good looks. The guy made it onto Oricon 2010's Most Beautiful Celebrity (positioned at no 6) beating some of the more mainstream actors/singers in Japan. He's pretty much part of Japan's pop-culture and it makes sense that Kawamura would base Alto on an existing public persona.

After all, Kawamura's gonna direct that... AKB48 anime >_>, so he must have an interest in the current idol/entertainment industry.

Well this is just my speculation after all and I don't think Kawamura has said anything about Alto being based on the Saotome family, so don't take it too seriously.
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Old 2011-11-07, 11:21   Link #459
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Alto is definitely a much more complicated character than I initially thought. A far cry from being shallow and uninteresting, his relationship with Sheryl seems to have an infinite number of nuances, most of which I never considered until now. One thing is abundantly clear: I need to re-watch the series, especially after just watching both movies, before posting a serious character analysis.
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Old 2011-11-07, 11:40   Link #460
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Alto is definitely a much more complicated character than I initially thought. A far cry from being shallow and uninteresting, his relationship with Sheryl seems to have an infinite number of nuances, most of which I never considered until now. One thing is abundantly clear: I need to re-watch the series, especially after just watching both movies, before posting a serious character analysis.
Another one sees the light. Welcome.
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