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Old 2008-06-02, 03:19   Link #101
ani_d
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
After watching 9 episodes, I think the voice acting of Altoh is mediocre. Ranka Lee hasn't been great either but Altoh probably the weakest compared to other lead male voice actors from other anime series.

Altoh's character design is also a bit shallow, but I will give it some time to develop.. but perhaps its pretty common the most popular character is usually not the main one.

I'm guessing most people are fans of either Sheryl or Ranka, followed by Ozama and then maybe Mikhail.
I disagree with this post about Alto both in character design and the voice actor. I see Nakamura as anything but mediocre. His portrayal of Alto is filled with emotions if you compare it to the other characters that he voiced so far. Alto is a hotblooded pretty boy who is struggling to be acknowledged by everyone. That's exactly how Nakamura portrayed him. I was sure I'd recognize his voice anywhere after I heard him from Shugo Chara, but I didn't even recognize Alto had the same bishounen voice because of the amount of feelings he put in this character. Only an excellent VA can pull that.

Seriously, the way he shouted "fire!" at Mikhail with such strong emotions. How can that be mediocre? :| The tension was totally there.

And the character designs. I hope you're not expecting for a character with a DBZ hair or something, because I personally think a male pilot who looks like a princess is something I've never seen before in mecha animes. It's both funny and interesting that Alto can compete with the girls in terms of looks and yet still be hotblooded. I think his long hair is an eyecatcher plus the fact that it isn't gravity defying should be credit enough. Also, the way he wore his uniform tells a lot about his character. There's nothing shallow about his designs at all.
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Old 2008-06-02, 07:25   Link #102
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
If you listen to Nakamura's tone, he sounds a bit too old for a 17 yr old boy. Especially in Ep 9, Altoh is either yelling or he's acting as snobbish as Kanda from D.Grayman.

Can't blame him too much, Altoh is a pretty boring character so far.
Well, news flash, in anime, age DOESN'T matter. Sheryl certainly sounds a lot older than what her 'official' age would dictate.

Sure, its ok if you don't like Alto (although most of us would disagree), but to say he sounds older than he should as an argument simply won't be very convincing.

- Tak
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Old 2008-06-03, 16:46   Link #103
vision33r
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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
I disagree with this post about Alto both in character design and the voice actor. I see Nakamura as anything but mediocre. His portrayal of Alto is filled with emotions if you compare it to the other characters that he voiced so far. Alto is a hotblooded pretty boy who is struggling to be acknowledged by everyone. That's exactly how Nakamura portrayed him. I was sure I'd recognize his voice anywhere after I heard him from Shugo Chara, but I didn't even recognize Alto had the same bishounen voice because of the amount of feelings he put in this character. Only an excellent VA can pull that.

Seriously, the way he shouted "fire!" at Mikhail with such strong emotions. How can that be mediocre? :| The tension was totally there.

And the character designs. I hope you're not expecting for a character with a DBZ hair or something, because I personally think a male pilot who looks like a princess is something I've never seen before in mecha animes. It's both funny and interesting that Alto can compete with the girls in terms of looks and yet still be hotblooded. I think his long hair is an eyecatcher plus the fact that it isn't gravity defying should be credit enough. Also, the way he wore his uniform tells a lot about his character. There's nothing shallow about his designs at all.
That's what makes him so boring to watch and Mikhail pretty much owned that episode. My girlfriend and I watched it and thought Mikhail was much cooler overall and his seiyuu did a pretty good job of portraying his business like character.

Altoh's seiyuu so far hasn't shown any charisma. Hikaru was a scrub compare to Altoh but he was convincingly a more down to earth and a nicer guy of course.

We'll see, my criticism represents what we learned and seen of Altoh so far. The scripting of Macross F hasn't been AAA so far anyways.
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Old 2008-06-03, 18:19   Link #104
nines
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Bah i dont undertstand this situation with Princess Altoh x.x so far all i can comprehend is that he was a cross dresser as a kid and his dad punched him and now he hates him o.o.
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Old 2008-06-03, 20:39   Link #105
Tak
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You should not be surprised if Alto did cross-dress in his 'younger' days. That is what Kabuki actors do, they cross-dress. Of course, his 'feminine' features do not help.

Alto is partially there to make fun of conventional anime tradition, where most main characters are, well, feminine. Personally, I take it pretty much as an in-joke.

Alto's strength isn't charisma, but at least he is so far very decisive about what he wants to do. Hikaru on the other hand, was never as decisive as Alto, a trait I dislike about him the most. Keep in mind that these are two different characters, they are not supposed to be the same. People should learn to accept the character as who he is, and not trying to apply traits from past legends. That just won't work.

Besides, if they are indeed paying homage, the guy with the charisma is always the guy with glasses, ok?

- Tak
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Old 2008-06-03, 21:33   Link #106
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I wouldn't say Alto's decisive. He's casual, reckless, and fairly simple. He'll be decisive when something complicated comes along and he takes action while appreciating the situation.
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Old 2008-06-03, 22:15   Link #107
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I said he is decisive so far, because he knows what he wants for himself. So far. Between Ranka and Sheryl? I don't know, but we'll see.

- Tak
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Old 2008-06-03, 22:26   Link #108
Wesley84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
I said he is decisive so far, because he knows what he wants for himself. So far. Between Ranka and Sheryl? I don't know, but we'll see.

- Tak
When you say it like that, part of me suspects he'll be performing Kabuki again by series end.
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Old 2008-06-03, 23:56   Link #109
herbert
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
I said he is decisive so far, because he knows what he wants for himself. So far.
It's not a mutiple choice question and you don't need pick one between decisiveness and indesciveness since people can have totally different criterions. He is better Ranka but far worse than his mistress in this case.


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Between Ranka and Sheryl? I don't know, but we'll see.
Does he have the right to pick? I wonder.
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Old 2008-06-04, 02:08   Link #110
Wesley84
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Does he have the right to pick? I wonder.
They owe him life-debts. Multiple ones in fact. Their lives belong to him, and are his do with as he wishes. He just needs to lay down the law first.
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Old 2008-06-04, 02:30   Link #111
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They owe him life-debts. Multiple ones in fact. Their lives belong to him, and are his do with as he wishes. He just needs to lay down the law first.
Like Sheryl would give a damn about it. Need I remind you the last part of ep8? It's Sheryl forgiving not thanking Alto and Alto is happy enough with it.
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Old 2008-06-04, 02:44   Link #112
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Like Sheryl would give a damn about it. Need I remind you the last part of ep8? It's Sheryl forgiving not thanking Alto and Alto is happy enough with it.
Alto's allowed Sheryl to define the debt on her own terms. Doesn't change the fact she's attached to him by the hip.
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Old 2008-06-04, 07:26   Link #113
Tak
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Originally Posted by herbert View Post
It's not a mutiple choice question and you don't need pick one between decisiveness and indesciveness since people can have totally different criterions. He is better Ranka but far worse than his mistress in this case.
And he knows what those criterion are and sought to meet them. That is him being decisive. He does not waver between decisions, and makes up his mind quickly, so far.

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Originally Posted by herbert View Post
Does he have the right to pick? I wonder.
This is Macross, it has a love triangle, you tell me.

- Tak
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Old 2008-06-04, 11:32   Link #114
4Tran
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Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
That's what makes him so boring to watch and Mikhail pretty much owned that episode. My girlfriend and I watched it and thought Mikhail was much cooler overall and his seiyuu did a pretty good job of portraying his business like character.
I don't know... I find Alto to be one of the more interesting male leads in a long time. However, his character hasn't been explored all that much in the last few episodes, so hopefully we'll get more development there over the next few.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
Altoh's seiyuu so far hasn't shown any charisma. Hikaru was a scrub compare to Altoh but he was convincingly a more down to earth and a nicer guy of course.
Hikaru is a much more down to earth guy than Alto is. That's sort of the point of their respective characters. Hikaru started out as a guy caught in larger events just trying his best to cope. Alto is very different in that he's not particularly normal, being a kabuki actor who's trying to pull some distance away from his father. Moreover, he's a bit of a narcissist; a character aspect which everyone uses to makes fun of him.

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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
They owe him life-debts. Multiple ones in fact. Their lives belong to him, and are his do with as he wishes. He just needs to lay down the law first.
It doesn't really work that way, and the more important thing is that Alto doesn't look at either Ranka or Sheryl in a romantic light yet.

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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Alto's allowed Sheryl to define the debt on her own terms. Doesn't change the fact she's attached to him by the hip.
That's hardly surprising given how overwhelming Sheryl's personality is. It'd take someone with an awful lot of force of will to overcome that, and Alto has managed to score a point or two on her.
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Old 2008-06-04, 14:19   Link #115
vision33r
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
I said he is decisive so far, because he knows what he wants for himself. So far. Between Ranka and Sheryl? I don't know, but we'll see.

- Tak
Decisive? Like joining the military and put life at risk without even thinking of the dangers? Hikaru thought about joining the military for awhile, it took 1 whole episode for him to decide.

Altoh is much similar to what you find in Gundam series where the main hero goes from student to ace pilot without knowing what the risks are.

For Altoh's case, what's his reason for fighting? Did the Vajira killed his parents or loved ones?

Hikaru was more down to earth, he later questioned himself what is he really fighting for.

So far we have not seen or feel what's going on in Altoh's mind except he wants to be better than his Sempai, which makes him no different than Isamu, a reckless hot shot.
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Old 2008-06-04, 15:38   Link #116
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Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
Decisive? Like joining the military and put life at risk without even thinking of the dangers? Hikaru thought about joining the military for awhile, it took 1 whole episode for him to decide.
And how many episodes do you want him to decide?! It took Hikaru pretty much one episode too, to join the fight. And why are you comparing Hikaru again? Alto is not Hikaru, he is not meant to be Hikaru. Alto is Alto, and Hikaru is Hikaru. I'd rather see Alto making snap judgments, even if these judgments proved to be a mistake in the long run (and I hope you are not expecting anyone to be perfect, because you'd just end up disappointed), but at least he is making a decision. I rather see someone making decisions like that than wavering for eternity, like Hikaru with certain issues. Moreover, he is also young. I don't know how old you are, but I hope you are not expecting Alto to have a mentality of a 50 year old. Hell, I know I still want to be part of something 'big', even if there were life-threatening involved. Fighting the Vajra, soaring through the stars, and becoming part of something big were what he wanted. Ozma did ask if he was sure, and well, he made his decision. Moreover, he is at least being responsible for the decisions he made.

And I hope you did not miss the practical side of him joining SMS. Look, he piloted the VF-25 to save Ranka, at the time without thinking of joining the military or the SMS. However, after he done just that, the military came and gave him two choices, join the military or suffer the consequences. Well, he picked a third, but negotiable choice of joining SMS. If I was in his place, I'd probably do the same, too.

Speaking of Hikaru's 'thought about this n' that', that long drag between Hikaru and his love-triangle annoyed me to no friggin end, and even at the end of the original TV series, I can still see that he wasn't too sure if Misa was who he wanted. If it wasn't for DYRL that redeemed Hikaru, I probably wouldn't like him as much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
Altoh is much similar to what you find in Gundam series where the main hero goes from student to ace pilot without knowing what the risks are.
If he was a Gundam Ace, he'd hijack the VF-25, not receive any formal military training and becoming an ace in 30 minutes (like you know, they just... get it, because it works like magic!)

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Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
For Altoh's case, what's his reason for fighting? Did the Vajira killed his parents or loved ones?
Does anyone specifically need a reason for fighting? The vast majority of the men and women who serve the world's military do not have a specific reason to kill the enemies perceived by the respective countries they serve in. They are sent to wars because the government told them they had to, and that the military offered more prospects to their lives than perhaps the options that were available to them, nothing more.

If only people with specific reasons for fighting were available, we wouldn't have a military. I am sorry, but that was pretty naive coming out of you.

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Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
Hikaru was more down to earth, he later questioned himself what is he really fighting for.
So what if he questioned himself what he was fighting for? That answer became clear to him, and didn't take long for him to figure out. I rather like Hikaru being down-to-Earth and simpler minded than Kira Yamato or Shinn Asuka whining to no end about their role. But once again, Hikaru is Hikaru, Alto is Alto, I think its time you best accept that fact.

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Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
So far we have not seen or feel what's going on in Altoh's mind except he wants to be better than his Sempai, which makes him no different than Isamu, a reckless hot shot.
Really? Did he really want to be better than his sempai? I don't see that coming out from him. I have not seen anything specific involving him expressing just such tendency. As for Isamu, he didn't even have a sempai, and he went to Earth not because he wanted to pick a fight against Guld but to prove to UN SPACY that human pilots are still more worthy than artificial ones. On the other hand, it was Guld who wanted to prove he was better than Isamu, not the other way around.

Reckless as Isamu may be, at least he knew what he wanted. Because you know, if Sharon Apple won, Isamu would lose his job (if not his life)... thats a good enough of a reason for fighting for me.

- Tak
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Old 2008-06-04, 16:31   Link #117
4Tran
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Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
Decisive? Like joining the military and put life at risk without even thinking of the dangers? Hikaru thought about joining the military for awhile, it took 1 whole episode for him to decide.
I'm not sure why you're comparing Alto and Hikaru, but Hikaru joined the military for relatively frivolous reasons. The very role of the characters is different: for example, Hikaru was meant to be a pov into the kind of things that young soldiers get themselves into when fighting a war of survival. Macross Frontier isn't that kind of show, so it shouldn't be surprising that the protagonists are very different as well.

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Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
For Altoh's case, what's his reason for fighting? Did the Vajira killed his parents or loved ones?
I'm not sure why a character needs to have some sort of overriding reason like the loss of a relative to fight, but that's not really the way Alto is put together. In the first episode, it's stated quite clearly that he values the freedom of flying, and that this freedom isn't available under normal conditions (he even shot down the option of flying commercially). In episode 5, this notion is reinforced to set up the parallel that Alto's urge to fly is much like Sheryl's (and Ranka's) urge to sing - it comes naturally, and they have a desire to express it.

That this flying comes with combat is almost a side effect; while Alto doesn't have a particular desire to destroy the Vajra, it's a necessity of what he does - in this extent, it's much like Tak pointed out: soldiers often don't get a choice about this kind of matter.

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Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
Hikaru was more down to earth, he later questioned himself what is he really fighting for.
A good portion of that comes from the fact that he joined up for a relatively trivial reason to begin with.

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Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
So far we have not seen or feel what's going on in Altoh's mind except he wants to be better than his Sempai, which makes him no different than Isamu, a reckless hot shot.
That isn't really true at all. We know about his urge to fly, and there's a strong suggestion that this is a reaction to the strictures that he was under from his father. Alto may be a bit on the reckless side, but he's no hotshot; and I haven't seen any indications that he's a gloryhound (aside from his performance of the corkscrew in episode 1).
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Old 2008-06-04, 18:16   Link #118
Swampstorm
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Alto is partially there to make fun of conventional anime tradition, where most main characters are, well, feminine. Personally, I take it pretty much as an in-joke.
Actually, one thing that I really like is that they haven't made it exclusively into a joke; it looks like it's going to be a serious plot point for his backstory as well.

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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Alto's allowed Sheryl to define the debt on her own terms. Doesn't change the fact she's attached to him by the hip.
Sheryl defined the debt on her own terms because Alto wouldn't have it any other way. You can't live life on your own terms if you're busy feeling indebted to others. Sheryl gave Alto the means to resolve his own feelings of obligation to her.

If love was the same thing as dependance, then strong willed people could live without it. There's a difference between being attached at the hip to someone and attaching yourself to someone's hip.

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This is Macross, it has a love triangle, you tell me.
Ranka chooses Sheryl.

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Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
For Altoh's case, what's his reason for fighting? Did the Vajira killed his parents or loved ones?
Taken right out of episodes four and nine. It's not just you; ths is also the question that all of Alto's fellow pilots are levelling at him. Everyone around him has their share of emotional scars. Alto is different; why would he give up his sheltered life to come and "play war"?

I'm looking forward to see how it gets answered. It's still possible for him to secretly be harboring a tragic past, but those are rather commonplace nowadays. I suspect that this has more to do with Alto's issues with his father and his desire to stand on his own.

Alto looked rather shocked when Michael said that it was only a matter of time before Alto gets killed or kills someone, during their talk in the elevator during episode 3. So they could theoretically go the Top Gun route with this too.
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Old 2008-06-04, 23:31   Link #119
nines
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Like Alto said he just feels like he was meant to fly and he also starting feeling like he had to help Ranka out seeing how shes always in a bad situation. So simply hes just always wanted to be in a Valkyrie maybe he likes the fact that he saves people and shit but he has no ultimate reason of being a pilot other than he was meant to
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Old 2008-06-05, 00:43   Link #120
herbert
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Like Alto said he just feels like he was meant to fly and he also starting feeling like he had to help Ranka out seeing how shes always in a bad situation. So simply hes just always wanted to be in a Valkyrie maybe he likes the fact that he saves people and shit but he has no ultimate reason of being a pilot other than he was meant to
Spare Alto, OK? Last time I checked, he wasn't born as the gurdian of Ranka. If you need a better reason for his choice of flying. Here is one: he is dreaming that one day he can fly with Sheryl. Poor one, I admit, but is better than your savior one.

As for Ranka, she better helps herself than wait others help her. Or quit singing is a good choice as well. Similiar to what you said about Alto,
Quote:
she has no ultimate reason of being a singer other than she was meant to.
Well, at least Alto has some fun at flying, Ranka only has pain in singing.
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