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Old 2011-03-08, 21:18   Link #2441
Swampstorm
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Just out of curiosity, how does one "help" with an evacuation attempt? I was under the impression that the best way that a civilian can help in an environmentally hazardous situation is to calmly leave the premises in an orderly fashion and get as far away as possible. Even as a trained civilian first responder, one of the very first things that you're taught is to never approach an injured or unconscious patient if it is unsafe to do so. Ignoring this rationale in order to play "hero" ensures that the professionals on scene now have two people to rescue, whereas before they only needed to rescue one.

I think that the reason why people bring up the evacuation scene is because Alto comments on it. But remember that Alto isn't exactly a neutral observer in all this. He's doubly been made a fool of, first by the fact that Sheryl indirectly belittled his piloting skills, and second, that in trying to show off, he actually lived up to her criticism. This first interaction goes on to define most of the first half, in which Alto is torn between sheer admiration for Sheryl's professionalism, and the fact that she serves as a ongoing reminder that he isn't actually the pilot hero of SMS that he envisions himself/pretends to be - a role that he spends a lot of time acting out. And if Sheryl's attitude in the first few scenes offended your sensibilities just as it did his, then it isn't all that surprising to want to side with Alto's accusation ("Yeah, you heard him! Take that you... you meanie!"), even if what he's suggesting isn't a sensible course of action.

When you see somebody act differently, that doesn't always mean that they've "changed". Many times, the person who changed was you, in realizing that there's more to that person beyond your initial judgment. It's not that Sheryl suddenly became a lot nicer as the series progressed. It's that we suddenly realized that she was a lot nicer than she initially let on.

(I suppose part of this negative viewpoint of Sheryl was partially due to those falsified articles from earlier, which made the claim on behalf of the "writers" that Sheryl was initially selfish, but that her character became less so as she matured throughout the series. But as Gubaba pointed out when he debunked those "articles", people tend to believe in whatever supports their point of view.)

Don't get me wrong. Sheryl has quite a few flaws, first among which are her tendency to be a workaholic and a degree of ineptness in handling one-on-one relationships. She can also be a bit of a walking disaster zone if someone (i.e. Grace or Alto) isn't keeping an eye on her (rest in peace, Samson). But selfish? I, for one, don't really see her that way.
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Old 2011-03-09, 02:21   Link #2442
magnuskn
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in which Alto is torn between sheer admiration for Sheryl's professionalism, and the fact that she serves as a ongoing reminder that he isn't actually the pilot hero of SMS that he envisions himself/pretends to be - a role that he spends a lot of time acting out.
That one again. <sigh> Where exactly is Alto acting out a role? I mean, if you count him deceiving himself why he joins SMS, that might be one such point. But for his time in SMS, I saw all his actions as genuine.
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Old 2011-03-09, 04:05   Link #2443
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That one again. <sigh> Where exactly is Alto acting out a role? I mean, if you count him deceiving himself why he joins SMS, that might be one such point. But for his time in SMS, I saw all his actions as genuine.
A point I agree with you although I saw his actions more because he is impulsive and he tends to act before he thinks.
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Old 2011-03-09, 14:53   Link #2444
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That one again. <sigh> Where exactly is Alto acting out a role? I mean, if you count him deceiving himself why he joins SMS, that might be one such point. But for his time in SMS, I saw all his actions as genuine.
I think that you may be reacting to the "genuine/fake" dichotomy associated with the word in much the same way that some people misread the meaning behind the "False songstress" title when the first movie came out.

I'm not suggesting that Alto was deliberately attempting to deceive himself or anyone else in "playing a role". It's a bit like when you don a particular uniform to do a job, it becomes part of your identity and necessitates a change in your conduct. Alto's trying quite hard to fit into his new identity as a pilot for SMS, but Sheryl has a tendency of disrupting all that. Alto's character development in the TV series largely revolves around a search for his identity, in usual coming-of-age style.

But this is more pertinent to a discussion on Alto's character, and is largely irrelevant to why he's so ornery towards Sheryl in the first few episodes. If you can accept that Alto's critique has more to do with his attitude towards Sheryl than it does with what she actually ought to have done, then we're on the same page as far as this thread is concerned. (Besides, I have a feeling that if I bring Yasaburo up, you'll never let this conversation end.)
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Old 2011-03-09, 15:14   Link #2445
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I think that you may be reacting to the "genuine/fake" dichotomy associated with the word in much the same way that some people misread the meaning behind the "False songstress" title when the first movie came out.

I'm not suggesting that Alto was deliberately attempting to deceive himself or anyone else in "playing a role". It's a bit like when you don a particular uniform to do a job, it becomes part of your identity and necessitates a change in your conduct. Alto's trying quite hard to fit into his new identity as a pilot for SMS, but Sheryl has a tendency of disrupting all that. Alto's character development in the TV series largely revolves around a search for his identity, in usual coming-of-age style.

But this is more pertinent to a discussion on Alto's character, and is largely irrelevant to why he's so ornery towards Sheryl in the first few episodes. If you can accept that Alto's critique has more to do with his attitude towards Sheryl than it does with what she actually ought to have done, then we're on the same page as far as this thread is concerned. (Besides, I have a feeling that if I bring Yasaburo up, you'll never let this conversation end.)
<g> True enough, Yasaburo is kind of a red rag to me. But so far, I agree with what you said.
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Old 2011-03-12, 22:02   Link #2446
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Sheryl's reaction is entirely understandable. She is giving a concert when suddenly, alarm goes off. She wants to continue, but is overridden by Cathy. She is annoyed, so she at this point basically comes into "leave it to officials" mode. Remember she cannot help at this point (at least she doesn't know she can), and she doesn't even know what happens. So yes, she reacts passively, but that's excusable. Also, because of her first reaction, her returning may actually backfire as it could prompt people to stay or at least stop. AAter all she wanted to continue. If she is back thn maybe we can stay, too?
Yes, Alto, who later pulls a hero (and is not good at it, mind you) considers it haughty. But this is life. What is true is that Sheryl doesn't exactly put a hero in that moment. But she is a civilian who faces unknown danger, so she really reacts ok.
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Old 2011-03-25, 17:21   Link #2447
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You know what I just realized something quite frightening of Sheryl's backstory. In MF proper she is known as Fairy 9 to Grace and her pals, who also make a mention of there being other test subjects before her that failed. Meaning that there were eight other girls before Sheryl who were put through the same thing, only they all failed, meaning they died sometime during their projects.

But that's not the only thing. Knowing what Sheryl went through and knowing that there were eight others in both movie-verse and Tv series-verse that went through the same hardships she did except those girls probably never got to experience the happy life that Sheryl did at Frontier. They probably never got to fall in love, something which Grace was pretty sure that Sheryl would never be able to experience love in the drama cds.

It kinda makes the very idea of Sheryl getting a happy ending seem more triumphant.

If Karice, Gubaba, or anyone really could correct me and diffuse some of my horror, it'd be nice.
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Old 2011-03-25, 17:33   Link #2448
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You know what I just realized something quite frightening of Sheryl's backstory. In MF proper she is known as Fairy 9 to Grace and her pals, who also make a mention of there being other test subjects before her that failed. Meaning that there were eight other girls before Sheryl who were put through the same thing, only they all failed, meaning they died sometime during their projects.

But that's not the only thing. Knowing what Sheryl went through and knowing that there were eight others in both movie-verse and Tv series-verse that went through the same hardships she did except those girls probably never got to experience the happy life that Sheryl did at Frontier. They probably never got to fall in love, something which Grace was pretty sure that Sheryl would never be able to experience love in the drama cds.

It kinda makes the very idea of Sheryl getting a happy ending seem more triumphant.

If Karice, Gubaba, or anyone really could correct me and diffuse some of my horror, it'd be nice.
No, I think you are spot on. Makes Grace seem even more monstrous, eh? And she was already someone who'd take revenge on two generation of her targets descendants.

Spoiler for Grace movie spoiler:


But, yeah, poor girls. Makes you wonder how long this project was in the planning, though. Or maybe those other "Fairy" projects are still on-going. Nobody says several projects cannot be done at the same time.
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Old 2011-03-25, 18:23   Link #2449
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No, I think you are spot on. Makes Grace seem even more monstrous, eh? And she was already someone who'd take revenge on two generation of her targets descendants.

Spoiler for Grace movie spoiler:


But, yeah, poor girls. Makes you wonder how long this project was in the planning, though. Or maybe those other "Fairy" projects are still on-going. Nobody says several projects cannot be done at the same time.
that's just what I was afraid of.
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Old 2011-03-25, 18:38   Link #2450
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You know what I just realized something quite frightening of Sheryl's backstory. In MF proper she is known as Fairy 9 to Grace and her pals, who also make a mention of there being other test subjects before her that failed. Meaning that there were eight other girls before Sheryl who were put through the same thing, only they all failed, meaning they died sometime during their projects.

But that's not the only thing. Knowing what Sheryl went through and knowing that there were eight others in both movie-verse and Tv series-verse that went through the same hardships she did except those girls probably never got to experience the happy life that Sheryl did at Frontier. They probably never got to fall in love, something which Grace was pretty sure that Sheryl would never be able to experience love in the drama cds.

It kinda makes the very idea of Sheryl getting a happy ending seem more triumphant.

If Karice, Gubaba, or anyone really could correct me and diffuse some of my horror, it'd be nice.
This has always been my assumption, though we can't be too certain what their ages were. They need not have necessarily been children, though it seems likely given Sheryl was 7 at the time. Also what I hear is that the procedure Grace uses is very, very painful.
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Old 2011-03-25, 19:17   Link #2451
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You know what I just realized something quite frightening of Sheryl's backstory. In MF proper she is known as Fairy 9 to Grace and her pals, who also make a mention of there being other test subjects before her that failed. Meaning that there were eight other girls before Sheryl who were put through the same thing, only they all failed, meaning they died sometime during their projects.

But that's not the only thing. Knowing what Sheryl went through and knowing that there were eight others in both movie-verse and Tv series-verse that went through the same hardships she did except those girls probably never got to experience the happy life that Sheryl did at Frontier. They probably never got to fall in love, something which Grace was pretty sure that Sheryl would never be able to experience love in the drama cds.

It kinda makes the very idea of Sheryl getting a happy ending seem more triumphant.

If Karice, Gubaba, or anyone really could correct me and diffuse some of my horror, it'd be nice.
I agree with this. But... Movie verse, Grace
Spoiler for spoilers:
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Old 2011-03-25, 19:21   Link #2452
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I agree with this. But... Movie verse, Grace
Spoiler for spoilers:
See that's the thing

Spoiler for possibly for the movie:
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Old 2011-03-25, 19:42   Link #2453
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See that's the thing

Spoiler for possibly for the movie:
I know that. But movie wise (and KitG manga)
Spoiler for spoilers:
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Old 2011-03-25, 19:59   Link #2454
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I know that. But movie wise (and KitG manga)
Spoiler for spoilers:
Spoiler for you never know:
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Old 2011-03-25, 20:06   Link #2455
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Spoiler for you never know:
Could be, also

Spoiler for KitG:
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Old 2011-03-25, 20:10   Link #2456
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Could be, also

Spoiler for KitG:
Spoiler for re: manga movie:
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Old 2011-03-26, 03:35   Link #2457
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Spoiler for re: manga movie:
Spoiler for spoiler:
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Old 2011-03-26, 09:53   Link #2458
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Spoiler for spoiler:
Hey it was innocent, it was described as the equivalent of a child who runs into their parents bedroom because of a bad dream except in Sheryl's case it was because of the pain she was in.
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Old 2011-03-26, 09:59   Link #2459
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Hey it was innocent, it was described as the equivalent of a child who runs into their parents bedroom because of a bad dream except in Sheryl's case it was because of the pain she was in.
Yeah, but the unfortunate implication is Sheryl getting solace with Grace, while Grace secretly is poisoning her blood. It is really rather an upsetting mental image, for the sheer cruelty necessary on Graces part. But, well, she is a rather unsettling villain.
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Old 2011-03-26, 11:26   Link #2460
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Yeah, but the unfortunate implication is Sheryl getting solace with Grace, while Grace secretly is poisoning her blood. It is really rather an upsetting mental image, for the sheer cruelty necessary on Graces part. But, well, she is a rather unsettling villain.
Actually when you listen to the actual drama cd Grace sounds surprised and awkward to hear young Sheryl ask that of her. Its actually a very sad exchange because you can hear the exchange, and especially knowing what will happen later on. Especially when Grace basically starts becoming reluctant to allow Sheryl continue with the Fairy Project.
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