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Old 2008-07-02, 06:00   Link #401
TwilightHack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
How about all the other times when Sheryl showed her up? Are you going to break out the cross and burn Ranka in effigy for doing the same thing Sheryl's been doing for most of the series?
Theres quite a difference between Sheryl and Ranka in this case.

Each time that Sheryl has stolen Ranka's thunder, Sheryl had previously been there encouraging or trying to help Ranka in some sort of way. After all, she's been there for Ranka from day one.

I wont go on further than that because I don't quite support the blaming as well.
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Old 2008-07-02, 06:24   Link #402
Slick_rick
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Originally Posted by TwilightHack View Post
Theres quite a difference between Sheryl and Ranka in this case.

Each time that Sheryl has stolen Ranka's thunder, Sheryl had previously been there encouraging or trying to help Ranka in some sort of way. After all, she's been there for Ranka from day one.

I wont go on further than that because I don't quite support the blaming as well.
I don't see how her supporting Ranka's singing career and giving advice somehow builds a debt that makes Ranka have to worry about her before the person she's in love with. I wholeheartedly believe Ranka was worried about Sheryl but the primary focus of her worry was for Alto. Is this a bad thing?

Was Sheryl encouraging or helping Ranka when she kissed Alto? She's supposedly Ranka's friend right? Does this stop her from putting the moves on Alto? She knows Ranka likes him. Did she thinking of Ranka when she joined Alto's school and proceeded to try to monopolize his time? Does Sheryl's support come with the clause that Ranka has to just bend over and take it each time and she can't reciprocate?
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Old 2008-07-02, 06:37   Link #403
Anh_Minh
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And let's not forget how supportive Sheryl was of Ranka personally giving tickets to Alto... right before making sure he couldn't see her on his birthday, or be there for her debut concert.
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Old 2008-07-02, 06:53   Link #404
daimonth
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Yes, Sheryl don't have the right to feel depressed over her failure and powerlessness because Ranka saved the day. She also don't have the right to go after Alto because Ranka is after Alto and she should step aside for Ranka despite the fact they know Alto practically at the same time. She also don't have the right to offer Alto a better present despite the fact that it was his birthday and it was his choice. She also should have told Ranka to her face that her present wasnt good enough.
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Old 2008-07-02, 07:00   Link #405
Slick_rick
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Originally Posted by daimonth View Post
Yes, Sheryl don't have the right to feel depressed over her failure and powerlessness because Ranka saved the day. She also don't have the right to go after Alto because Ranka is after Alto and she should step aside for Ranka despite the fact they know Alto practically at the same time. She also don't have the right to offer Alto a better present despite the fact that it was his birthday and it was his choice. She also should have told Ranka to her face that her present wasnt good enough.
You obviously don't get the point of my posts. I'm not saying she doesn't have a right to do any of these things. I'm saying that criticizing Ranka for something Sheryl's been doing the whole series is wrong. Sheryl isn't a saint and Ranka's not a demon no matter how much Sheryl fanboys/girls try to paint it as such.
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Old 2008-07-02, 07:05   Link #406
Anh_Minh
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And vice versa.
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Old 2008-07-02, 07:57   Link #407
Tak
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Heh, you know, the source of all these battles between Ranka & Sheryl fans is Alto. We often get caught by the girls that we often forget Alto is not a neutral factor in this discussion.

Somebody ought to smack this pu*o upside the head.

- Tak
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Old 2008-07-02, 08:03   Link #408
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
Was Sheryl encouraging or helping Ranka when she kissed Alto? She's supposedly Ranka's friend right? Does this stop her from putting the moves on Alto? She knows Ranka likes him.
Actually she probably doesn't know that Ranka likes him like that otoh Ranka thinks or should I say thought that Sheryl and Alto where in a relationship and has thought so for a while now. Or did you miss the entire Macross Zero triangle parallel Ranka was thinking in episode 10? So if Sheryl's so bad for doing that than what does that make Ranka who actually thought they were in a relationship?

Quote:
Did she thinking of Ranka when she joined Alto's school and proceeded to try to monopolize his time? Does Sheryl's support come with the clause that Ranka has to just bend over and take it each time and she can't reciprocate?
You're really reaching here (the return of reacher man!) but the difference is that she still showed concern for Ranka while Ranka showed zero for Sheryl in 12. You can wholeheartedly believe Ranka was worried about Sheryl but nothing in 12 supports that.
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Old 2008-07-02, 08:16   Link #409
Wesley84
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Since when does small talk amount to concern for one's well being?
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Old 2008-07-02, 08:18   Link #410
Westlo
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Since when should Sheryl have been concerned about Ranka's well being? I must've missed the episode where Ranka collapsed and it was broadcast all over the place and Sheryl didn't give a fuck about her.
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Old 2008-07-02, 08:21   Link #411
Swampstorm
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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Since when does small talk amount to concern for one's well being?
What on earth are you talking about?
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Old 2008-07-02, 08:24   Link #412
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Since when should Sheryl have been concerned about Ranka's well being? I must've missed the episode where Ranka collapsed and it was broadcast all over the place and Sheryl didn't give a fuck about her.
You're the one that claimed Sheryl cared about Ranka. I wouldn't claim that Ranka cares about Sheryl beyond the whole fangirl thing, and that's probably over and done with...until we get to the point where they become, gag me, "Best Friends Forever".
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Old 2008-07-02, 08:25   Link #413
Westlo
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I think he's trying to imply that Sheryl's little chit chat and pep talk to Ranka is meaningless and doesn't amount to concern for her. In other words he's desperately trying to reach for something to counter the "Ranka didn't give a shit about Sheryl" line of thought that has emerged from 12... trying being the key word.

I look forward to seeing more lolexcuses from some fans if they go in the direction I think they will.
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Old 2008-07-02, 08:29   Link #414
Swampstorm
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I suppose that depends on who is doing the classifying, then. What might strike one person as meaningless or unimportant might strike another person as significant. In this context, all that matters is the significance that the characters themselves attach to the dialogue, not the viewers.

Both Sheryl and Ranka seem to think the topics of Ranka's career and development important, since it is revisited a number of times during their conversations.
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Old 2008-07-02, 09:10   Link #415
Wesley84
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Both Sheryl and Ranka seem to think the topics of Ranka's career and development important, since it is revisited a number of times during their conversations.
Everytime for every converation.
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Old 2008-07-02, 10:01   Link #416
Slick_rick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Actually she probably doesn't know that Ranka likes him like that otoh Ranka thinks or should I say thought that Sheryl and Alto where in a relationship and has thought so for a while now. Or did you miss the entire Macross Zero triangle parallel Ranka was thinking in episode 10? So if Sheryl's so bad for doing that than what does that make Ranka who actually thought they were in a relationship?
The looks that Sheryl gives Ranka when talking about Alto and the looks she gave Ranka during EP10 when Ranka ran off after hearing about Alto past shows she knows or at least highly suspects. I'd say she first understood during the mall episode when Ranka was singing. She told Alto that she came out of her shell on her own whim by herself then we hear her saying "on her own whim?" She possibly figured out the reason here. Sheryl is pretty smart and would have caught on quickly to Ranka's feelings.

I didn't miss the parallel but you might have missed that Sheryl would be Mao. The aggressor who causes Ranka/Sara to become jealous after seeing the kiss with Alto/Shin. Ranka is Sara the one in love but afraid to be the aggressor. Watching from the outside. I dispute the belief that Sheryl didn't know. Her face clearly shows she understand Ranka's feelings in that episode.



Quote:
You're really reaching here (the return of reacher man!) but the difference is that she still showed concern for Ranka while Ranka showed zero for Sheryl in 12. You can wholeheartedly believe Ranka was worried about Sheryl but nothing in 12 supports that.
She showed concern for Ranka while she was dragging Alto around as a slave? I don't think so. She showed concern later in that episode but for Ranka's singing career. That doesn't change the fact that she didn't concern herself with Ranka's feelings about her showing up and stealing her spotlight as the "new girl" in school and all of Alto's attention away. Ranka being concerned about the person she loves more so than her Idol is I think a good thing. Sheryl and Ranka are similar when it comes to Alto. He first on their minds and most of there worries are about him.

Quote:
Since when should Sheryl have been concerned about Ranka's well being? I must've missed the episode where Ranka collapsed and it was broadcast all over the place and Sheryl didn't give a fuck about her.
I must have missed the episode where Sheryl saved Ranka's from the Zentradi, putting herself in mortal danger and endng battle only to have Ranka be upset that she wasn't able to give a present to Alto. Where was Sheryl concern for the danger Ranka was in?

Last edited by Slick_rick; 2008-07-02 at 10:04. Reason: Skipped ahead and forgot to go back
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Old 2008-07-02, 10:36   Link #417
daimonth
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Yes lets defend the character by bring up nonsensical points about the other character.
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Old 2008-07-02, 10:51   Link #418
Slick_rick
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Originally Posted by daimonth View Post
Yes lets defend the character by bring up nonsensical points about the other character.
Once again you miss the point. I'm not trying to defending her character. I'm trying to compare and contrast her to Sheryl so that you can see that her actions in Ep12 are similar to Sheryl actions during the past episodes. So if you feel her actions in Ep12 reflect badly on her character then you're saying that Sheryl's character is just as bad if not worse throughout the series. I guess you prefer one sentence posts that bring that completely miss the point better?
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Old 2008-07-02, 12:47   Link #419
daimonth
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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
Once again you miss the point. I'm not trying to defending her character. I'm trying to compare and contrast her to Sheryl so that you can see that her actions in Ep12 are similar to Sheryl actions during the past episodes. So if you feel her actions in Ep12 reflect badly on her character then you're saying that Sheryl's character is just as bad if not worse throughout the series. I guess you prefer one sentence posts that bring that completely miss the point better?
Didn't have enough time to do a full post last time though you can't deny that it has been a trend in some of the disscussions. On the other hand I don't find your comparison valid as they are not comparable action. Your said that Sheryl should be happy for Ranka and that because Sheryl is shown to be depressed that its 'ungrateful?' However I will point out that isn't it more natural and responsible to feel depressed and guilty about breaking your promise and not fulfilling her duty as singer to begin with? There are no indication that she did not feel grateful and isn't it the more important thing to consider what her failure is in this?
This is no way can be compared to not inquire a word about the friend who had fallen sick, collapsed and taken hostage.
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Old 2008-07-02, 13:00   Link #420
nanatsusaya
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So Sheryl's unconcern of Ranka's feeling toward Also is worse than Ranka's unconcern of Sheryl's well-being? May be stepping down and letting Ranka have Alto all to herself will make her a better person, you think?

Alto isn't anyone to claim and I say Sheryl works her charm very well. It isn't her fault that Ranka's outshined. Since when two rivals in love have to consider about each other's feeling?

The point is, while Ranka's all about Alto, Sheryl on the other hand has other concerns like her works and Galaxy. Ranka did show her concern to Sheryl once in ep7, but in ep12 after meeting Alto she completely forgot about everything else, even her idol. That's not really nice from a friend pov.
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