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Old 2008-07-02, 13:13   Link #421
Slick_rick
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Originally Posted by daimonth View Post
Didn't have enough time to do a full post last time though you can't deny that it has been a trend in some of the disscussions. On the other hand I don't find your comparison valid as they are not comparable action. Your said that Sheryl should be happy for Ranka and that because Sheryl is shown to be depressed that its 'ungrateful?' However I will point out that isn't it more natural and responsible to feel depressed and guilty about breaking your promise and not fulfilling her duty as singer to begin with? There are no indication that she did not feel grateful and isn't it the more important thing to consider what her failure is in this?
This is no way can be compared to not inquire a word about the friend who had fallen sick, collapsed and taken hostage.
You're misquoting me. I never said she should be happy or grateful. I only pointed out that she wasn't happy or grateful. Her feelings were understandable just like Ranka feelings were when their places were exchanged. I said earlier that I felt Ranka was worried about Sheryl just Alto took precedence. This was refuted with the belief that their wasn't any indication of that in Ep12. Same things goes for Sheryl. Nowhere in Ep12 does it seem like she's the smallest bit grateful to Ranka for saving them. Her gripping the sheets and her being depressed after the Alto and Ranka leave together are clear indicators that she wasn't.

I must have missed in Ep12 where Sheryl inquired about Ranka safety. She did arrive in the middle of a battle and almost got shot by the Zentradi leader. I'd think I trade being sick and captured vice being half a second away from being vaporized.
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Old 2008-07-02, 13:26   Link #422
TwilightHack
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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
You obviously don't get the point of my posts. I'm not saying she doesn't have a right to do any of these things. I'm saying that criticizing Ranka for something Sheryl's been doing the whole series is wrong. Sheryl isn't a saint and Ranka's not a demon no matter how much Sheryl fanboys/girls try to paint it as such.
If thats the only point you're to make... then you're right, Sheryl isn't a saint and yes, Ranka is not a demon.

Though on the other side, Ep12 has shown us that Ranka is one-track minded when it comes to Alto. In this case she's being a naive little girl that needs a wakeup call and realize the world.

The fact reminds that both Ranka and Sheryl did not go to Galia IV to stem the Zentradi uprising.

Ranka went for Alto.
Sheryl went for Galaxy.

In you opinion, which is the more noble of selfish intentions? For the whereabouts of the many or for the safety of one...

That speaks volumes in my book.
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Old 2008-07-02, 13:32   Link #423
Slick_rick
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Originally Posted by nanatsusaya View Post
So Sheryl's unconcern of Ranka's feeling toward Also is worse than Ranka's unconcern of Sheryl's well-being? May be stepping down and letting Ranka have Alto all to herself will make her a better person, you think?

Alto isn't anyone to claim and I say Sheryl works her charm very well. It isn't her fault that Ranka's outshined. Since when two rivals in love have to consider about each other's feeling?

The point is, while Ranka's all about Alto, Sheryl on the other hand has other concerns like her works and Galaxy. Ranka did show her concern to Sheryl once in ep7, but in ep12 after meeting Alto she completely forgot about everything else, even her idol. That's not really nice from a friend pov.
Look at my last post for the first part of your statement. Ranka seemed to be the one outshining Sheryl in Ep12. I never said she or Sheryl should be considerate of the others feelings. I was just pointing to those who feel Ranka should have been more considerate of Sheryl in Ep12 that Sheryl never been considerate of Ranka's feelings during the rest of the series. So why are they now putting Ranka down for doing the exact same thing?

Last time I checked Ranka has her own singing career she has to worry about. While she didn't lose her home fleet like Sheryl she did lost her whole family when she was a child. Now she has dissociative amnesia. Maybe that might be a slight concern of hers too. I think she fairly concerned about her brother's safety. Sheryl showed so much concern for her friend safety too in Ep12 huh?
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Old 2008-07-02, 13:44   Link #424
Slick_rick
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Originally Posted by TwilightHack View Post
If thats the only point you're to make... then you're right, Sheryl isn't a saint and yes, Ranka is not a demon.

Though on the other side, Ep12 has shown us that Ranka is one-track minded when it comes to Alto. In this case she's being a naive little girl that needs a wakeup call and realize the world.

The fact reminds that both Ranka and Sheryl did not go to Galia IV to stem the Zentradi uprising.

Ranka went for Alto.
Sheryl went for Galaxy.

In you opinion, which is the more noble of selfish intentions? For the whereabouts of the many or for the safety of one...

That speaks volumes in my book.
I don't get your point? Ranka went to save the man she loved. Sheryl went to try find out news about the home she loved. Should Ranka have lost her home galaxy instead of Sheryl? Does that somehow make Sheryl more noble? Sheryl didn't seemed to be too concerned about it either. When she was sick she didn't say "I need to get news about galaxy" she said "I haven't given Alto his present yet". Who has the one-tracked mind?
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Old 2008-07-02, 13:45   Link #425
cerrian
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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
Sheryl showed so much concern for her friend safety too in Ep12 huh?
I don't think Sheryl was even aware of the dangers Micheal and Ranka put themselves in until it was all over. By that point we don't even get an opportunity to see her reactions or her concerns. So it's a bit of a mute point to try and argue that Sheryl was unconcerned about Ranka's safety.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
Sheryl didn't seemed to be too concerned about it either. When she was sick she didn't say "I need to get news about galaxy" she said "I haven't given Alto his present yet". Who has the one-tracked mind?
You're kinda forgetting about the context of the situation when she said those words. They were hostages to a group of rebelling Zentradi who were demanding for culture and Sheryl was the only person, as far as anyone on Galia IV was aware, who could fulfill their demands and placate them. The only way to defuse the situation and open up the sky for Alto is to go out there and sing for the Zentradi. There's nothing one-track minded about it. She's very aware of her responsibilities and the consequences of her actions on Galia. Freeing up the sky for Alto to fly in is nothing but a measurement of success for defusing the current crisis at hand.

Last edited by cerrian; 2008-07-02 at 13:56.
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Old 2008-07-02, 13:54   Link #426
nanatsusaya
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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
Look at my last post for the first part of your statement. Ranka seemed to be the one outshining Sheryl in Ep12. I never said she or Sheryl should be considerate of the others feelings. I was just pointing to those who feel Ranka should have been more considerate of Sheryl in Ep12 that Sheryl never been considerate of Ranka's feelings during the rest of the series. So why are they now putting Ranka down for doing the exact same thing?

Last time I checked Ranka has her own singing career she has to worry about. While she didn't lose her home fleet like Sheryl she did lost her whole family when she was a child. Now she has dissociative amnesia. Maybe that might be a slight concern of hers too. I think she fairly concerned about her brother's safety. Sheryl showed so much concern for her friend safety too in Ep12 huh?
Well when they met for the first time Sheryl gave advices to Ranka who was a complete stranger didn't her? And many time after that. It seems to me that Sheryl concerns about a fellow singer more than Ranka ever concerns about her idol.

Sheryl was sick in nearly the whole ep and when she woke up everything was already in control. What's left for her to concern?

In ep 7 while doing her concert not only Sheryl was worrying about Alto, she's worrying for the whole team who went fighting too. And Ranka? She only thought about her brother and Alto.
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Old 2008-07-02, 13:54   Link #427
Slick_rick
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Originally Posted by cerrian View Post
I don't think Sheryl was even aware of the dangers Micheal and Ranka put themselves in until it was all over. By that point we don't even get an opportunity to see her reactions or her concerns. So it's a bit of a mute point to try and argue that Sheryl was unconcerned about Ranka's safety.
Grace was watching the battle so she should have understood what was happening. After it was over did we see any relief from her that Ranka was safe? Nope she was upset. This doesn't scream concern. Just like how we never she Ranka concerned about Sheryl in Ep12 we don't see Sheryl concerned about Ranka either. They might have been but what we were shown for both was the opposite.
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Old 2008-07-02, 13:57   Link #428
TwilightHack
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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
I don't get your point? Ranka went to save the man she loved. Sheryl went to try find out news about the home she loved. Should Ranka have lost her home galaxy instead of Sheryl? Does that somehow make Sheryl more noble? Sheryl didn't seemed to be too concerned about it either. When she was sick she didn't say "I need to get news about galaxy" she said "I haven't given Alto his present yet". Who has the one-tracked mind?
Difference is that while one is aware of the other circumstances, one could care less about them.

I've made my point several times already so I'll stop here.

As for Sheryl not caring for Ranka's feelings, that can't be further from the truth... except for some parts dealing with Alto.
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Old 2008-07-02, 14:03   Link #429
cerrian
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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
Grace was watching the battle so she should have understood what was happening. After it was over did we see any relief from her that Ranka was safe? Nope she was upset. This doesn't scream concern. Just like how we never she Ranka concerned about Sheryl in Ep12 we don't see Sheryl concerned about Ranka either. They might have been but what we were shown for both was the opposite.
Oh, you're absolutely correct in that we don't get to see concern from either girls. Ranka is solely focused on saving Alto and Sheryl is sick and frustrated that she can't do her job and meet the expectations placed upon her.
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Old 2008-07-02, 14:04   Link #430
Slick_rick
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Originally Posted by nanatsusaya View Post
Well when they met for the first time Sheryl gave advices to Ranka who was a complete stranger didn't her? And many time after that. It seems to me that Sheryl concerns about a fellow singer more than Ranka ever concerns about her idol.

Sheryl was sick in nearly the whole ep and when she woke up everything was already in control. What's left for her to concern?

In ep 7 while doing her concert not only Sheryl was worrying about Alto, she's worrying for the whole team who went fighting too. And Ranka? She only thought about her brother and Alto.
So Sheryl gave Ranka advice should I put her up for Sainthood now? Ranka concerned but I don't know if she has any advice that would be help to a pro like Sheryl.

She looked wide awake to me. Sick yes but still awake.

Sheryl was worrying about the others? Did she even know them at this point. When she was looking at the feed wasn't all about her favorite pilot, Alto. When Ranka is talking to her brother he saying that he'll take care of Alto and all the others guys and none of them will die. She seems to be worrying about more than just Alto and her brother.
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Old 2008-07-02, 14:12   Link #431
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Originally Posted by TwilightHack View Post
Difference is that while one is aware of the other circumstances, one could care less about them.

I've made my point several times already so I'll stop here.

As for Sheryl not caring for Ranka's feelings, that can't be further from the truth... except for some parts dealing with Alto.
I'm only concerning with those feelings but the same can be said of Ranka caring about Sheryl. She does but doesn't mean she needs to step aside and let her take Alto. I don't really get your point but I digress.

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Originally Posted by cerrian View Post
Oh, you're absolutely correct in that we don't get to see concern from either girls. Ranka is solely focused on saving Alto and Sheryl is sick and frustrated that she can't do her job and meet the expectations placed upon her.
Sheryl frustrated about not doing her job? Not meeting expectations? Then why was she so worried about Alto's gift? Wasn't that her true primary concern then? Same as Ranka huh? Go figure.
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Old 2008-07-02, 14:21   Link #432
cerrian
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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
I'm only concerning with those feelings but the same can be said of Ranka caring about Sheryl. She does but doesn't mean she needs to step aside and let her take Alto. I don't really get your point but I digress.



Sheryl frustrated about not doing her job? Not meeting expectations? Then why was she so worried about Alto's gift? Wasn't that her true primary concern then? Same as Ranka huh? Go figure.

I'll repost it here since you seem to have missed it in all the edits.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick_rick
Sheryl didn't seemed to be too concerned about it either. When she was sick she didn't say "I need to get news about galaxy" she said "I haven't given Alto his present yet". Who has the one-tracked mind?

You're kinda forgetting about the context of the situation when she said those words. They were hostages to a group of rebelling Zentradi who were demanding for culture and Sheryl was the only person, as far as anyone on Galia IV was aware, who could fulfill their demands and placate them. The only way to defuse the situation and open up the sky for Alto is to go out there and sing for the Zentradi. There's nothing one-track minded about it. She's very aware of her responsibilities and the consequences of her actions on Galia. Freeing up the sky for Alto to fly in is nothing but a measurement of success for defusing the current crisis at hand.
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Old 2008-07-02, 14:32   Link #433
nanatsusaya
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So Sheryl gave Ranka advice should I put her up for Sainthood now? Ranka concerned but I don't know if she has any advice that would be help to a pro like Sheryl.

She looked wide awake to me. Sick yes but still awake.

Sheryl was worrying about the others? Did she even know them at this point. When she was looking at the feed wasn't all about her favorite pilot, Alto. When Ranka is talking to her brother he saying that he'll take care of Alto and all the others guys and none of them will die. She seems to be worrying about more than just Alto and her brother.
Advice might be impossible, but a concern once in a while would be nice. Ranka to Sheryl: admire, jealous, admire, jealous, admire, jealous, admire,... x11 episodes except one time in ep7.

Before Sheryl sang Infinity: "Just for this last song... for a certain person... No, I want to sing it for a certain group of people. For people who are risking their lives right now in a faraway place."

She cared for Galaxy, and for the Frontiers soldiers who were fighting to save Galaxy, too.

It was only after her brother's call that Ranka knew they went off fighting. She looked down for a moment, then exclaimed, 'Then Alto-kun too?'

Then continuing to enjoy the show

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
I'm only concerning with those feelings but the same can be said of Ranka caring about Sheryl. She does but doesn't mean she needs to step aside and let her take Alto. I don't really get your point but I digress.


Sheryl frustrated about not doing her job? Not meeting expectations? Then why was she so worried about Alto's gift? Wasn't that her true primary concern then? Same as Ranka huh? Go figure.
No. Her works came first, then Alto.
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Old 2008-07-02, 14:32   Link #434
Slick_rick
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Originally Posted by cerrian View Post
I'll repost it here since you seem to have missed it in all the edits.

You're kinda forgetting about the context of the situation when she said those words. They were hostages to a group of rebelling Zentradi who were demanding for culture and Sheryl was the only person, as far as anyone on Galia IV was aware, who could fulfill their demands and placate them. The only way to defuse the situation and open up the sky for Alto is to go out there and sing for the Zentradi. There's nothing one-track minded about it. She's very aware of her responsibilities and the consequences of her actions on Galia. Freeing up the sky for Alto to fly in is nothing but a measurement of success for defusing the current crisis at hand.
Thanks for the repost did miss that one.

Why then did the first thing out of her mouth was about "Alto's present". This once again just goes to show that Alto's present was her primary concern. She could have said I need to go stop this battle because people are going to die, or I need to stop this battle so I can find out more about Galaxy. But instead she wanted to stop the battle so that Alto could fly. How romantic of her but then how is Ranka stopping the battle to give Alto his present so wrong and Sheryl doing the exact same thing so noble? I ponder this and can't fathom the answer.
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Old 2008-07-02, 14:37   Link #435
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Originally Posted by nanatsusaya View Post
Advice might be impossible, but a concern once in a while would be nice. Ranka to Sheryl: admire, jealous, admire, jealous, admire, jealous, admire,... x11 episodes except one time in ep7.

Before Sheryl sang Infinity: "Just for this last song... for a certain person... No, I want to sing it for a certain group of people. For people who are risking their lives right now in a faraway place."

She cared for Galaxy, and for the Frontiers soldiers who were fighting to save Galaxy, too.

It was only after her brother's call that Ranka knew they went off fighting. She looked down for a moment, then exclaimed, 'Then Alto-kun too?'

Then continuing to enjoy the show
The person she loved was the one she taught of first. Such an evil girl Ranka is.



Quote:
No. Her works came first, then Alto.
Oh really? Then why was in mentioned in Ep11 that she was taking time off of work to spend more time at school with Alto. This seems to contradict your statement.

Last edited by Slick_rick; 2008-07-02 at 14:38. Reason: Grammar
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Old 2008-07-02, 14:45   Link #436
nanatsusaya
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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
The person she loved was the one she taught of first. Such an evil girl Ranka is.

Oh really? Then why was in mentioned in Ep11 that she was taking time off of work to spend more time at school with Alto. This seems to contradict your statement.
Problem is he wasn't the one she thought of first, but the only one she thought of beside her brother. I wouldn't call her evil for it though, being the naive schoolgirl she is.

What's wrong for taking a rest once in a while? All her life before meeting Alto was only revolving around her career so it's normal that she wanted a little fun. And it seemed that she didn't take time off of work to go to school but tried to maintain both school and work to the point that it exhausted her.
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Old 2008-07-02, 15:04   Link #437
Slick_rick
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Originally Posted by nanatsusaya View Post
Problem is he wasn't the one she thought of first, but the only one she thought of beside her brother. I wouldn't call her evil for it though, being the naive schoolgirl she is.
I don't see what naive about not thinking about everyone see knew in SMS who might be in danger. Her immediate reactions are too her brother, who was the one called, and Alto, who was suppose to be there with her. I don't think she need to go list people for us to understand she concerned about them all.

Quote:
What's wrong for taking a rest once in a while? All her life before meeting Alto was only revolving around her career so it's normal that she wanted a little fun. And it seemed that she didn't take time off of work to go to school but tried to maintain both school and work to the point that it exhausted her.
Why is she in School anyway? She never showed any signs of being frustrated with work. Her blogs entries makes it seems like she loves singing and her greatest joys are found on the stage. She doesn't need to be in school. She joined Alto school to have fun sure. But fun with who? Alto is the reason for her attending school and thereby to spend more time with him at school she taking a break from singing. If work was her first in her mind when it came down to the choice between going to school and working then work would of course come first. But nope spending time with Alto>work.
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Old 2008-07-02, 15:15   Link #438
daimonth
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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
Grace was watching the battle so she should have understood what was happening. After it was over did we see any relief from her that Ranka was safe? Nope she was upset. This doesn't scream concern. Just like how we never she Ranka concerned about Sheryl in Ep12 we don't see Sheryl concerned about Ranka either. They might have been but what we were shown for both was the opposite.
Moot point, the battle was over the moment Ranka started to sing. Nobody knew she was there until she started to sing. If Grace was watching the battle then Sheryl would have shown updates. If Sheryl know the events then she would know that nothing ever came close to Ranka other than Temujin and unless Grace has superfast play by play broadcasting abilities its more likely that by the time she related whats going (IF she even noticed Temujin since no else other than Alto did and IF she choose to relay that to Sheryl.) on Alto already took Temujin out.

As far as feeling of gratitude, its difficult to express gratitude by pure expression and still maintain the atmosphere of failure Sheryl is feeling and the main focus at the time was her depression. To add more to the scene would have destroyed the mood and impact to the viewer.

Last edited by daimonth; 2008-07-02 at 17:40.
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Old 2008-07-02, 15:37   Link #439
nanatsusaya
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Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
I don't see what naive about not thinking about everyone see knew in SMS who might be in danger. Her immediate reactions are too her brother, who was the one called, and Alto, who was suppose to be there with her. I don't think she need to go list people for us to understand she concerned about them all.
There wasn't any hint in that scene to help us understand her concern, unless you imagined it in your head There wasn't any "then Mikhail/Luca-kun too?!" following her sentence. She did not think about anyone beside Alto and her brother and that's it.

Quote:
Why is she in School anyway? She never showed any signs of being frustrated with work. Her blogs entries makes it seems like she loves singing and her greatest joys are found on the stage. She doesn't need to be in school. She joined Alto school to have fun sure. But fun with who? Alto is the reason for her attending school and thereby to spend more time with him at school she taking a break from singing. If work was her first in her mind when it came down to the choice between going to school and working then work would of course come first. But nope spending time with Alto>work.
She's not taking a break. She just took some free time on her schedule to go to school and when she had to go to another place to perform she would take a break from school. Alto went with her or not, she would still go.

She love both her singing career and her time with Alto so she tries to maintain both.
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Old 2008-07-02, 16:15   Link #440
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by nanatsusaya View Post
There wasn't any hint in that scene to help us understand her concern, unless you imagined it in your head There wasn't any "then Mikhail/Luca-kun too?!" following her sentence. She did not think about anyone beside Alto and her brother and that's it.
Or maybe the writers thought having her list everyone would make for awkward inner monologue. Can't say I'd disagree.
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