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Old 2008-07-06, 20:47   Link #601
cheesie
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I'm more amused by how quickly Wesley jumped on the bandwagon.

I guess that's the thing with character spotlights. So far, the story followed Ranka's movements so closely that it's easy to miss the little signs in Sheryl's actions and jump into conclusions since half of the time, Sheryl's in the center of it when Ranka's in one of her pitiful/uncertain moods.

That's why I love Sheryl's blog entries. It gives her the balance she needed. I think it's such a funky and creative way of showing everyone what she's really thinking deep inside in correspondence to each episode while the anime focuses Ranka to a certain extent. The series is beginning to watch Sheryl closely now, but I'll still refer to her blog entries for her additional thoughts anyway.
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Old 2008-07-06, 20:49   Link #602
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by nanatsusaya View Post
Can anyone give /facepalm again?

If Sheryl ever looks at Ranka then she's a selfish bitch bursting with jealousy and insecurity.
If Sheryl never looks at Ranka then she's a selfish bitch who cares only for herself...

None of those is the case

So you think Sheryl would give someone who she didn't even consider as a person advices and supports? Sheryl respected and saw potential in Ranka's voice. It is the contrary, Ranka's the one who never looks past her idol admiration and insecurity to actually care for Sheryl as a person.
Who knows why she hands out her little speeches to Ranka. It seemed like something she decided to do on a whim, plus the fact that Ranka seemed to amuse her somehow. Perhaps the fact that the moment was just perfect for a massive ego trip, after having all that praise Ranka unbashedly just heaped on Sheryl without Ranka being aware of who she was.

Perhaps she simply finds Ranka cute in a puppy dog kind of way. Hell, maybe Ranka reminds her of some long lost pet she had as a child. The way Sheryl's always talking down to or past Ranka, it'd sure fit the bill.

"Who's a little upstart amateur who's whole world revolves around me? You are, yes, you are! Here's a little high-handed speech to boost your self-esteem. Oh, you're so cute!"

I'm actually surprised Sheryl even knows her name.
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Old 2008-07-06, 21:02   Link #603
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Originally Posted by crisis View Post
I'm more amused by how quickly Wesley jumped on the bandwagon.
What bandwagon?

Quote:
I guess that's the thing with character spotlights. So far, the story followed Ranka's movements so closely that it's easy to miss the little signs in Sheryl's actions and jump into conclusions since half of the time, Sheryl's in the center of it when Ranka's in one of her pitiful/uncertain moods.
That's true. We don't get much from Sheryl's perspective. Paying attention to her words, her mannerisms, and her characterization is all we really have to go on. Bleach saying she's insecure and jealous holds about as much weight as people saying she's a roiling sea of compassion and vunerability, a truely kind and wonderful person on the inside.

I try to take her at face value, and in doing so she just seems thoughtless, whimiscal, and a bit inconsistent. Not to mention a loner that is vain and arrogant, unlike the "Whatever"-type.

Quote:
That's why I love Sheryl's blog entries. It gives her the balance she needed. I think it's such a funky and creative way of showing everyone what she's really thinking deep inside in correspondence to each episode while the anime focuses Ranka to a certain extent. The series is beginning to watch Sheryl closely now, but I'll still refer to her blog entries for her additional thoughts anyway.
Fanfiction. Really, there's nothing stopping the anime staff from giving Sheryl a proper portrayal that's more in line with her "blog entries", but they don't for whatever reason. I'd rather not set the precedent that a cheap, secondary resource take the place of characterization and story relevance within the actual show.
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Old 2008-07-06, 21:04   Link #604
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Originally Posted by squaresphere View Post
Better question now is how is Sheryl going to evolve now that Grace is gone. Does she know how to access her money? What about media contacts and contract obligations.

Once we get past the current Vajra battle it'll be interesting to see what slant will be taken with her.
I wonder how Grace will react when she sees Sheryl is alive... and flying a fighter plane at that
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Old 2008-07-06, 21:07   Link #605
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Originally Posted by squaresphere View Post
Better question now is how is Sheryl going to evolve now that Grace is gone. Does she know how to access her money? What about media contacts and contract obligations.

Once we get past the current Vajra battle it'll be interesting to see what slant will be taken with her.
That's a hilarious thought. Kind of reminds me of Tony Stark from the recent Ironman movie, when he was asked by his Secretary if he even knew his SS#. "5"
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Old 2008-07-06, 21:07   Link #606
nanatsusaya
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Yeah, Sheryl knew her name because she actually paid attention, unlike whatever you think.
One time and you could say she did it on a whim, but do you count how many time did Sheryl give Ranka advice? One, two, three, four, five or six times? Does Sheryl like going around and giving free advices? No. Sheryl sees Ranka as a promising singer, but the confidence about her work doesn't let it worry her. That's not arrogant.

If she ever displayed some kind of worry, I bet someone would immediately jump in the chance and say that she's a jealous bitch.

Your imagination is creative Hey, at least we agree at the comment about Ranka looking like a puppy

Quote:
I try to take her at face value, and in doing so she just seems thoughtless, whimiscal, and a bit inconsistent. Not to mention a loner that is vain and arrogant, unlike the typical "Whatever"-type.
Sheryl's anything but thoughtless, ep12+13 prove it greatly. Being a loner isn't her fault, and you can't expect the biggest idol to act humbly.
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Old 2008-07-06, 21:09   Link #607
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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Fanfiction. Really, there's nothing stopping the anime staff from giving Sheryl a proper portrayal that's more in line with her "blog entries", but they don't for whatever reason. I'd rather not set the precedent that a cheap, secondary resource take the place of characterization and story relevance within the actual show.
Fanfiction from the official staff?! Whoa. I also think that the Sheryl and Ranka blogs actually portray the two characters quite well. I can't see a post that proves otherwise.
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Old 2008-07-06, 21:10   Link #608
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@ Wesley84

She acted like that when she met Alto the first time. And she has outgrown that predetermined mold that was set out for her. She has a lot of confidence, yes, because she HAS to. It's because she has to depend on herself a LOT in order to get through the loneliness that she feels, and it is what eventually made her the Galactic Fairy. I have to give her credit for that.

However, that kiss in episode 10 is... well I don't know what to make out of it. Sheryl did see Ranka before she made that move on Alto. Which was a few seconds before Ranka turned around to see that kiss. Prior to this scene, Sheryl knew that Alto would be kissing Ranka, Alto substituting for the actor to play as Shin in the underwater scene, and Ranka would be the one who is going to play as Mao. Probably she really didn't mean anything by it, she didn't expect Ranka to turn around and see them kiss, she sees Bobby talking to Ranka on the beach, then whether intentionally or not, she kissed Alto and Ranka sees what they were doing. It's very hard not to see Sheryl because of her pink blond hair and her orange jacket; even if Ranka didn't intentionally try to look over at where Alto and Sheryl were standing, she will catch any movement that would be going on to where they were. Sheryl teased Alto again, by kissing him like that, or maybe she was also getting Alto to be prepared for the kiss. Maybe she didn't see Ranka on the beach, but she did see Alto looking over at Ranka on the beach. Her attention was fixed on Alto, who was looking over at Ranka, with Alto looking kinda worried or is maybe worried over Ranka in terms of that scene. And mentioned it to Sheryl.
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Old 2008-07-06, 21:18   Link #609
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Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper View Post
However, that kiss in episode 10 is... well I don't know what to make out of it.

-snip-
That's why I said to pay attention to Sheryl. Watch Sheryl's reaction after the kiss. She wasn't looking over at Ranka or doing that typical "I'm gonna burn you so bad" anime look. I interpreted the overall kiss scene in two ways: Firstly, Sheryl was looking very content with her little smile, but she skidded to a halt when she saw Alto's stunned expression. She quickly backtracked when Alto didn't say anything, and played it off while laughing.

I'm more comfortable with the second interpretation. The little smile Sheryl had seemed more and more like a result of inconsistent animation. She kissed him to challenge the kiss remark he made, but the vulnerable look she had tells us she wasn't expecting to feel the powerful rush of emotions. She then quickly played it off while laughing, and she was blushing like a shy schoolgirl while doing it. (On another issue, her denial of her feelings here fits what was shown with us in Episode 13 : she's still in denial over her feelings for Alto. (Going by one of Michael's subbed lines of "Looks like she fell in love with you too" only to have her blushing and harrumphing.))

It didn't say anything about her intentions on wanting to goad Ranka. Ranka happened to look her way while she was doing it.

Look at the entirety of how they executed that sequence.
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Old 2008-07-06, 21:25   Link #610
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Sheryl saw Ranka out there, but Ranka had her back turned. She didn't look out at Ranka wait for her to turn around and then go kiss Alto....I could understand people being upset if she did that, but that's not what happened.
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Old 2008-07-06, 21:27   Link #611
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@ crisis

Um what. Sheryl's eyes were emotional, it's not like she is in a rush of conflicting emotions that she finds out she likes Alto. In a sense that probably she tried to see if Alto did like hanging out with her or if he did think of her in a way that could've showed some emotion on his part. When I saw that scene, I felt for Sheryl. It's like she gives Alto a kiss and...Alto just always looked like himself. Crap, if I kissed the guy I liked that way then he looks poker faced, that would really just crush my ego and stamp it down to even more than a million miles under the earth. Sheryl tries to hide that crushing realization by acting like she was teasing him. But she likes Alto, there's no denying that. But Alto was so mean to her that scene...

@ zalem

I watched that scene again a couple of times. It may look like Sheryl sees Ranka, but her eyes look weird...they were looking at Alto. QUALITY! Or maybe she did see Ranka. Also, Bobby was seated in a way that a small part of the hut where Sheryl and Alto were was still shown. It's possible that even if Ranka was facing Bobby when she turned around, she could probably see what Sheryl and Alto were doing if there was a quick movement, based on Sheryl's hair color and the jacket she wore.
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Old 2008-07-06, 21:31   Link #612
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Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper View Post
But she likes Alto, there's no denying that. But Alto was so mean to her that scene...
Haha, I think Alto was too unsure what to make out of what Sheryl did, so he tried to keep a straight face. He was probably thinking of what Sheryl's intentions were for kissing him. For a moment there when Sheryl was kissing Alto, he had that "WTF?!" look, so I suppose he was just... a confused little boy.
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Old 2008-07-06, 21:34   Link #613
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Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper View Post
Um what. Sheryl's eyes were emotional, it's not like she is in a rush of conflicting emotions that she finds out she likes Alto.
That makes more sense. After I made the "Sheryl in denial" claim, I double checked with the translations between gg and Kei just in case, and sure enough, both translations are drastically different, so I'll leave off the Sheryl in denial for now. Take it out, and I agree with you on that account.

Quote:
In a sense that probably she tried to see if Alto did like hanging out with her or if he did think of her in a way that could've showed some emotion on his part. When I saw that scene, I felt for Sheryl. It's like she gives Alto a kiss and...Alto just always looked like himself. Crap, if I kissed the guy I liked that way then he looks poker faced, that would really just crush my ego and stamp it down to even more than a million miles under the earth. Sheryl tries to hide that crushing realization by acting like she was teasing him. But she likes Alto, there's no denying that. But Alto was so mean to her that scene...
Well, there you go, whatever the case, I'm pretty sure goading Ranka has absolutely nothing to do with it, really. I'm not saying that opinion is wrong, just that there's not much in that sequence to support that notion other than if you're really enthusiastic in your hatred for Sheryl.
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Old 2008-07-06, 21:34   Link #614
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Or maybe Alto was slow. In any case, at least he could've shown some effort on his part to look flustered, which only happened after Sheryl teased him about it. That's just...so odd about what happened.

@ crisis

However, there was the scene when Alto decides to look for Ranka and Sheryl had this weird look on her face. you can't deny she was frowning. I wonder why. Frustration? And before the kiss happened, Sheryl knew that he was going to kiss Mao (the former actress for that role). Then Ranka gets the role. If Sheryl was readying Alto for the kiss scene, she could've already done it prior to Alto searching for Ranka, but of course, it would be an injustice since Sheryl didn't know that Ranka was going to play Mao's role. But that's impossible cause Ranka's manager wasn't exactly quiet, and Sheryl could've heard the good news when Ranka returned.
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Old 2008-07-06, 21:35   Link #615
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Originally Posted by zalem View Post
Uh yeah, cause Sheryl is psychic and would know that Ranka would turn around at precisely that moment to see the kiss. That's why we are all scratching our heads about your so-called "dissection" of that scene. Ranka was facing the ocean, Sheryl did not see Ranka turn around. She kissed Alto and while that was happening Ranka turned around and saw it.

Oh and when we are talking about a character being insecure or needy we are not just focusing on the relationship with Alto aspect...but the character as a whole. Ranka has constantly needed someone to prod her into doing things. She is starting to move away from that, but she still does it. Sheryl is all about relying on her own strength. Doing what she can with her own two hands. In fact, maybe she does that too much. Maybe her problem is that she needs more human contacts and people IRL to support her. Does this mean Sheryl is super confident in EVERYTHING she does? No, of course not. She is human. And when it comes to relationships...well that is another person in the equation. You can only do so much with your own two hands, but the other person must return the feelings. Sheryl sees very much as of episode 13 how strongly Alto is feeling for Ranka. But what does she do? She gets over that moment of pain and says she'll do what she can to go rescue Ranka. I respect her for that.

And I'm not saying Ranka cannot grow. She has already grown a bit. Hopefully she will continue. The best story writers know how to develop their characters. I truly hope she becomes something more then the typical damsel in distress.
lol...next time someone calls me a rabid shipper. I am sending straight to this forum.

Sheryl is insecure because she can see that Alto cares for Ranka.


Did you notice that Alto doesn't bat an eye when males fawn over Sheryl? Could be cause he knows it comes with the territory. Yet he displayed jealousy twice when Ranka got attention? Episode 13...after the shouts of deculture! and nosebleeds. He gets an irritated look and then stunted <--Showing off by flying right to Ranka "She's mine"

Ranka is strong willed. She may have had doubts but she goes through with it .


You know what...I don't want to half ass it. Because I want you to fully understand my POV. *Translation* I have to screen shot it and break it down

@You know who you are... it's really you...
Quote:
" "Your responses are so juvenile. You just seem to lack experience in certain areas of relationships as well as perceiving Kawamori's frame of mind.
Because if you ...Well first you would know. Not everybody agrees with you. You can't force em. That's an example. Dude she's not real! In no way am I hurting her feelings.

Don't hide behind reps...Say to me. One thing no matter how bad you insult me. I will never red-rep. I don't believe it. No I am just going to eat your ass like cookies.
Now I believe bash the character never the fans. I don't blame you for your choices...I think should be allowed to have mine...

Don't bite me and I won't bite you. Because I bite hard...

Now I didn't care. too much And even though. I am on the unfavorable team this time. I have been reading most of your arguments for a few weeks now.

*Too Easy*


@ "Thunder" You just got your wish. This thread just got jacked.

For those who don't visit the Bleach forums or MY thread...watch me do it again in here

Random: Does anyone ever notice I give this speech to the unassuming, first? So get your best arguments out. So I can chew em up and spit em out. Because I am going to take a few of the best arguments...and use you to make a point.

I didn't want to come in here like that but you forced me to it...Be careful what you wish for...

*Don't say I didn't warn you*

You know what...
thread just got hijacked by OD. watch me pwn this thread too...Everything above or below this line...is about get crushed by the OD

Keep in mind it's all in fun and I am just a wise ass. just one who can debate my ass off.
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Old 2008-07-06, 21:50   Link #616
cheesie
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Random: Does anyone ever notice I give this speech to the unassuming, first? So get your best arguments out. So I can chew em up and spit em out. Because I am going to take a few of the best arguments...and use you to make a point.
Ooohh, this reminds me of the common things the opposing side of my FFVII fandom would say. I miss those days, lmao.

After all, the Bleach fandom has nothing on the FFVII fandom. Years of pure, tainted beautiful exploding wank in that ugly vicious fandom. Anyone who's debated with either side could tell you that when we debate, it means we wank instead. (Though the account hijacking and impersonation is a bit much, but oh well.)

Anyway, nice to see my favorite IchiRuki crusader back. Carry on!

Quote:
Originally Posted by eidolon_sniper
However, there was the scene when Alto decides to look for Ranka and Sheryl had this weird look on her face. you can't deny she was frowning. I wonder why. Frustration? And before the kiss happened, Sheryl knew that he was going to kiss Mao (the former actress for that role). Then Ranka gets the role. If Sheryl was readying Alto for the kiss scene, she could've already done it prior to Alto searching for Ranka, but of course, it would be an injustice since Sheryl didn't know that Ranka was going to play Mao's role. But that's impossible cause Ranka's manager wasn't exactly quiet, and Sheryl could've heard the good news when Ranka returned.
When I saw that scene, I thought it was obvious that it's because Sheryl was the only one out of the whole group to notice that something's not right with Ranka. She caught Ranka's agitation, but she isn't sure what is it. All she knows is that something's up? They were talking about Alto's past after all, and suddenly, Ranka goes off.

Sheryl's a nice woman. I thought Episode 13 proved that, when she ordered Alto to give his life to save Ranka after recovering from her vulnerable state in the sky.
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Old 2008-07-06, 21:53   Link #617
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by nanatsusaya View Post
Yeah, Sheryl knew her name because she actually paid attention, unlike whatever you think.
One time and you could say she did it on a whim, but do you count how many time did Sheryl give Ranka advice? One, two, three, four, five or six times? Does Sheryl like going around and giving free advices? No. Sheryl sees Ranka as a promising singer, but the confidence about her work doesn't let it worry her. That's not arrogant.
Advice would be something like what Alto said to Ranka concerning acting. How to actually do what you're setting out to do. What Sheryl does for Ranka is give a high sounding and fluffy "Do your best" that only works because Ranka eats it right up since Sheryl's the one talking to her. If Sheryl actually tried to relate to Ranka and convey something meaningful from Sheryl's own personal experience, like Alto did, then it'd be advice.

But heaven forbid that Sheryl ever admit to having misgivings or showing some sign of weakness to a, heh heh, puppy dog...

Quote:
If she ever displayed some kind of worry, I bet someone would immediately jump in the chance and say that she's a jealous bitch.
Someone out of hundreds of people that think Sheryl's God's gift to anime viewers. Don't get me wrong, I loved what they did with her in episode five, but they've taken the "professional" thing way too far, and she's simply unbelieveable at this point. If she gets the chance to fly in combat and doesn't immediately bug-out for calmer waters, I'll just write off her character altogether.

Quote:
Your imagination is creative Hey, at least we agree at the comment about Ranka looking like a puppy
You'd have to be blind to not admit it. I like Ranka's character and enjoy the progression she's had, but I can't say I find fault in people for saying her character design is intentionally made to appeal to a certain group of people. What's a real shame is that many automatically seem to write her off because of her looks.

Quote:
Sheryl's anything but thoughtless, ep12+13 prove it greatly. Being a loner isn't her fault, and you can't expect the biggest idol to act humbly.
Being a loner is her fault. You are alone, because you choose to be alone for whatever reason. I don't buy it for a minute that Alto is somehow the only person in the whole universe she can relate to, because people aren't all that different from eachother, no matter where they come from or what they do, when you get right down to it.

The only time she's had a good idea the whole series is when she tried to give Alto the oppurtunity to fly through planet-bound gas, and I wouldn't mind her having a huge ego if someone would actually fault her for it. The closest anyone's come to criticising Sheryl though was Nanase, and that was kind of underwhelming.

I mean, geez, Sheryl tried to kill herself, Alto, and Ranka, only to prove some stupid point about doing things on her own terms, and nobody called her on her rash and suicidal behavior (I'm sure many people hated Minmei for merely suggesting the same thing). I suspect most actually applauded her for it, only because of how cool and tough it sounded, which is a real problem I think. Sheryl says alot of cool/tough things, but in doing so it makes her seem even less like a person and more like a personality the anime staff want to parade around for consumption.
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Old 2008-07-06, 22:14   Link #618
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Originally Posted by crisis View Post
Ooohh, this reminds me of the common things the opposing side of my FFVII fandom would say. I miss those days, lmao.

After all, the Bleach fandom has nothing on the FFVII fandom. Years of pure, tainted beautiful exploding wank in that ugly vicious fandom. Anyone who's debated with either side could tell you that when we debate, it means we wank instead. (Though the account hijacking and impersonation is a bit much, but oh well.)

Anyway, nice to see my favorite IchiRuki crusader back. Carry on!
ZOMG TEH FFVII. Really, it has its spectacular moments and its not so spectacular moments, but Dirge of Cerberus and to an extent Crisis Core already make me want to facepalm at the absurdity of the fandom. I won't deny that I'm an FF VII fangirl, but I know my fanaticism has its own limits. Cleris FTW lol But of course this is off-topic.

Quote:
When I saw that scene, I thought it was obvious that it's because Sheryl was the only one out of the whole group to notice that something's not right with Ranka. She caught Ranka's agitation, but she isn't sure what is it. All she knows is that something's up? They were talking about Alto's past after all, and suddenly, Ranka goes off.

Sheryl's a nice woman. I thought Episode 13 proved that, when she ordered Alto to give his life to save Ranka after recovering from her vulnerable state in the sky.
Of course, woman's intuition. Count Bobby in too. He knows that there is something wrong with Ranka as well. There's no denying that Sheryl is a nice woman. As for knowing what it was, I think she already knew before the Zero movie that something was not right with Ranka, and that she probably knows what it is already.
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Old 2008-07-06, 22:17   Link #619
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Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
Sheryl is insecure because she can see that Alto cares for Ranka.
I have no problem with you vouching for Alto x Ranka, but why oh why do you insist that Sheryl is insecure?

Nothing has shown us that she's insecure. The entire series has portrayed her a very self-confident woman, especially this past Ep13. The only insecure moment she's had was in Ep6, and that was about her childhood on Galaxy.
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Old 2008-07-06, 22:25   Link #620
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Originally Posted by TwilightHack View Post
Nothing has shown us that she's insecure. The entire series has portrayed her a very self-confident woman, especially this past Ep13. The only insecure moment she's had was in Ep6, and that was about her childhood on Galaxy.
Even that scene conveyed security about her insecurity.
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