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Old 2008-08-14, 03:56   Link #1161
linage
Addicted to Rice
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Spoiler for A simple question from the Manga:


All for Sheryl looks,music and story is way better than Ranka, she needs to eat my carrots so she can undergo Metamorphosis.
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Old 2008-08-14, 14:41   Link #1162
squaresphere
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What's odd to me is why Sheryl is so popular. Not why actually but rather, she isn't a not character type but i've never liked previous attempts at it.

It just puzzles the crap out of me
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Old 2008-08-14, 14:54   Link #1163
germanturkey
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yeah, i didn't enjoy the last few eps until 18 because there was more Sheryl. and i agree with the many of you who don't really care what happens to Ranka. i just find her so annoying for some reason.
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Old 2008-08-14, 21:10   Link #1164
Lostdreams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linage View Post
Spoiler for A simple question from the Manga:


All for Sheryl looks,music and story is way better than Ranka, she needs to eat my carrots so she can undergo Metamorphosis.
lol I actually showed that pic to some1. They said the girl with the black hair.
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Old 2008-08-17, 04:18   Link #1165
CaptGloval
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^LOL we can't argue with that!
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Old 2008-08-17, 04:37   Link #1166
Wesley84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squaresphere View Post
What's odd to me is why Sheryl is so popular. Not why actually but rather, she isn't a not character type but i've never liked previous attempts at it.

It just puzzles the crap out of me
One word: Obamania. Sheryl appears to have qualities that people like, like confidence, maturity, a "strong-will". Her popularity has outstripped her actual role, and her character in the series. What she does doesn't matter. How she acts, the way she says things, that's all that matters. What she actually says, or what she actually does, that doesn't matter at all to her cult-following. They've projected an aura of things they supposedly want in a female character, and sooner or later, the reality that Sheryl will not live up to their expectations will hit them like a bus. And then they'll be pissed and probably blame it on Ranka for stealing the show even though it was always her show to begin with.
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Old 2008-08-17, 04:50   Link #1167
solothurn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
And then they'll be pissed and probably blame it on Ranka for stealing the show even though it was always her show to begin with.
Uh...no, just no. Saying that is similar to saying the original Macross was Minmay's show. The show belongs to no one in particular: It more or less belongs to the love triangle.

Please stop that overextensive generalization. People have different reasons of liking a character. You're stooping to the level of the rabid Sheryl fans you're describing yourself.

---

Let's just avoid attacks on people with regards to who they prefer. These do not really contribute to the discussion.

Last edited by solothurn; 2008-08-17 at 04:57. Reason: Soften the blow.
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Old 2008-08-17, 05:01   Link #1168
Wesley84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solothurn View Post
Uh...no, just no. Saying that is similar to saying the original Macross was Minmay's show. The show belongs to no one in particular: It more or less belongs to the love triangle.
It's a simple matter of perspective. Ranka has it, and everyone else is just along for the ride supporting her in whatever way is appropiate or more likely convinent.

Quote:
Please stop that overextensive generalization. People have different reasons of liking a character. You're stooping to the level of the rabid Sheryl fans you're painting yourself.
Why people like Sheryl's character: Episode 5. That's it. Everything else afterwords is hype and pairing wars. You mark my words. It's not going to last.

Quote:
Let's just avoid attacks on people with regards to who they prefer. These do not really contribute to the discussion.
I haven't attacked anyone for liking or not liking a character. Someone asked why Sheryl's character is so popular, and I stated my opinion on the matter.
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Old 2008-08-17, 05:15   Link #1169
solothurn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
It's a simple matter of perspective. Ranka has it, and everyone else is just along for the ride supporting her in whatever way is appropiate or more likely convinent.
Then how would you explain the focus on Sheryl's story in the past few episodes? If the show truly belongs to Ranka and Alto alone, why do they bother keeping Sheryl and Alto in the last scene of both OP's?

Each Macross series is always about the love triangle. Sure, there's a particular one in that bit of the triangle, but I believe in this case it's more Alto than Ranka.

Though your opinion does hold a candle as to how Ranka got a lot of focus in her story during the start & the middle of the series, but I believe it was more due to the fact that Sheryl comes into the story already having a 'developed' side, as compared to Ranka who was starting out from nothing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Why people like Sheryl's character: Episode 5. That's it. Everything else afterwords is hype and pairing wars. You mark my words. It's not going to last.
I haven't attacked anyone for liking or not liking a character. Someone asked why Sheryl's character is so popular, and I stated my opinion on the matter.
I respect your opinion, but dislike the way you painted everyone who prefers Sheryl as single-minded and obnoxious. Maybe you could have phrased it better, I dunno, but what you said is almost like grouping the reasonable fans in together with the rabid "DIE RANKA DIE" group. It doesn't make you look good.
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Old 2008-08-17, 06:06   Link #1170
Wesley84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solothurn View Post
Then how would you explain the focus on Sheryl's story in the past few episodes? If the show truly belongs to Ranka and Alto alone, why do they bother keeping Sheryl and Alto in the last scene of both OP's?

Each Macross series is always about the love triangle. Sure, there's a particular one in that bit of the triangle, but I believe in this case it's more Alto than Ranka.
It's all a lie. They might make openings that allude to one thing or another, they might vomit up some background story or motivation for a character, they might even spend entire episodes without Ranka even appearing. It doesn't change the fact she's the Hikaru of this series.

Quote:
Though your opinion does hold a candle as to how Ranka got a lot of focus in her story during the start & the middle of the series, but I believe it was more due to the fact that Sheryl comes into the story already having a 'developed' side, as compared to Ranka who was starting out from nothing.
So what you're saying is Sheryl's too old? There were probably many things they could have done with her character that didn't revolve around harassing Alto, but they chose to literally have her sit or lay around for most of the series. Call it a lack of imagination on their part.

I will say this whole "Fallen from Grace" thing they've got going for her right now is really blown out of proportion if not for the fact that she's probably going to be dead soon, and is likely thinking no one will even go to her funeral. Because she doesn't know anyone. Really needs 3 Ghosts of Christmas to come by and pwn her ass if you ask me.

Quote:
I respect your opinion, but dislike the way you painted everyone who prefers Sheryl as single-minded and obnoxious. Maybe you could have phrased it better, I dunno, but what you said is almost like grouping the reasonable fans in together with the rabid "DIE RANKA DIE" group. It doesn't make you look good.
Hype in general is distasteful to me. I try to avoid participiating in it, but it's sometimes fun to just cheer your brains out for something.
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Old 2008-08-17, 07:42   Link #1171
solothurn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
It's all a lie. They might make openings that allude to one thing or another, they might vomit up some background story or motivation for a character, they might even spend entire episodes without Ranka even appearing. It doesn't change the fact she's the Hikaru of this series.
I respecfully disagree. IMO, it's Alto that's clearly the Hikaru of this series, to which Ranka is the Minmay. This setup has been too obvious from the start. Though I do agree that if you look how things are, it's almost as if Ranka was given more chances to develop as compared to Alto so much that it's as if she is the main character, but still, if you count the fact how the setups of past Macross series (not including II) are and how Frontier is supposed to be one big homage to the original series, it's quite obvious that Macross Frontier is *not just* Ranka's story. Usually, the main character (if there is one in this) in a Macross series pilots a Valkyrie. (Hikaru, Isamu, Basara, Shin) Ranka does not. I doubt that they changed the formula in Frontier.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Call it a lack of imagination on their part.
I agree with you on this. They could have done so much on Sheryl but they chose not to do so. For what reason? We'll never know, but I'm guessing that they chose to focus on the childlike Ranka more since Japan loves loli's and she had the most room and potential for development, as compared to the 'already matured' (mostly) Sheryl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Hype in general is distasteful to me. I try to avoid participiating in it, but it's sometimes fun to just cheer your brains out for something.
Easy on the words, though. What you say may be a source of misunderstanding on other people's part.
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Old 2008-08-17, 08:07   Link #1172
kilroy0097
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The Rising Lucky Star
I like Ranka because I understand why she is doing what she doing. She is mentally young and naive and really has no idea what she is doing due to inexperience in life. She is lucky enough to be where she is by circumstances as the case may be. Hence she is the free spirit that is being drawn along with the events happening around her. Minmei was very much like this as well. She is driven for her want to please everyone but also at different time different individuals.

The Fallen Heroine
I like Sheryl because she is the superstar idol that is being disassembled from her very good life and career and being brought down into the mud and dirt through unfortunate circumstances. But she will also then show that she can rise above adversary and once again make something of herself. She is addicted to success and being accepted which is what drives her. This is the want for fame that Minmei also showed.

In fact in a way Sheryl and Ranka both show parts about their character that are drawn loosely from Minmei.

The Shmuck
I dislike Alto because he should be the male lead protagonist with the troubled past that proves himself the hero despite the disgruntled nature of this father over his career choice. Instead he barely draws on his knowledge or skill set of this acting background having seen him give advice of any sort only twice, he shows zero patience for someone who should be versed in keeping his cool and while he demonstrates exceptional skill as a pilot he should be constantly reprimanded for not being a team player as this sort of behavior just gets people killed in the end. The only part of his acting background he shows on a constant basis is his angst and over dramatic emotional outbursts over various things.

I find that Alto is Hikaru in attitude and rashness as a pilot and he's also as unobservant about people as Hikaru was. The one difference that should set Alto apart from Hikaru is his impressive and talented background as an accomplished actor. Hikaru was just a crop duster that did barn house tricks with his airplane. One would think there would be a noticeable difference,

Oh and for kicks, Ozma is Roy Focker and Cathy is Misa Hayase and Claudia Grant mixed together. Michael is Maximillian and I think Klan is supposed to be Millia.
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Old 2008-08-17, 09:31   Link #1173
Westlo
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@ solothurn

You're trying to debate with someone who hasn't even seen all of Macross and before he even watched an episode of it was adamant that Lacus Clyne was not inspired by Minmei. He also tries to defend horrible plot holes like Kira ending up on PLANT after the Athrun fight in shows he actually likes. He's like the only SEED fan I've seen try to defend that, hilarious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Her popularity has outstripped her actual role, and her character in the series.
You seem to be mistaking Sheryl for Hinagiku from Hayate no Gotoku or Tsukiumi from Sekirei, who are major supporting characters who are easily more popular than the rest of the cast. Sheryl is a major character, nothing you say or twist will change this, you can get your panties in a bunch and cry all you want that your precious Ranka isn't as popular as Sheryl but it won't change a thing.

And as for your episode 5 started her popularity, that's entirely not true, it just shot it into the stratosphere. As for not her popularity not lasting, you can think that if you want but one things for sure Sheryl will be the character remembered the most from Frontier and going by dvd and music sales Frontier's one of the most popular series in Japan from this decade. Sheryl has just as much chance as C.C and Haruhi in staying popular for a long amount of time...
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Old 2008-08-17, 10:31   Link #1174
Teletha
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@solothurn.

Nice trying to reason with Wesley84, but most of us have him on ignore for a reason. He's a troll. It's best to not quote him.

But to answer the question, episode 5 did not seal Sheryl's popularity at all. That's not what she's known for. If you want to play that game, I could say nyan nyan and kira ☆ are a big reason Ranka is popular. I don't think it's totally true, but both helped her a lot.
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Old 2008-08-17, 13:59   Link #1175
MaiHikari
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@solothurn.

How Wesley 84 can say that it's Ranka's show is beyond belief, so I can see why you want to respond to it. But then again, he's probably so fixated on this notion that nothing we say will kick in. It happens too often when he didn't really read a post and reply to it indicating that he didn't read it at all. It's selective reading, hearing, and seeing. He'll see the show how he wants it. Responding to it is a futile effort, but you did have many good points. Thanks!
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Old 2008-08-17, 16:14   Link #1176
Wesley84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solothurn View Post
I respecfully disagree. IMO, it's Alto that's clearly the Hikaru of this series, to which Ranka is the Minmay. This setup has been too obvious from the start. Though I do agree that if you look how things are, it's almost as if Ranka was given more chances to develop as compared to Alto so much that it's as if she is the main character, but still, if you count the fact how the setups of past Macross series (not including II) are and how Frontier is supposed to be one big homage to the original series, it's quite obvious that Macross Frontier is *not just* Ranka's story. Usually, the main character (if there is one in this) in a Macross series pilots a Valkyrie. (Hikaru, Isamu, Basara, Shin) Ranka does not. I doubt that they changed the formula in Frontier.
It's not simply the role or career choice that makes a character the main character of a series. It's perspective and developement and story relevance. Hikaru was the main character because the story was told from his perspective. Ranka is the main character for the same reason.

Quote:
I agree with you on this. They could have done so much on Sheryl but they chose not to do so. For what reason? We'll never know, but I'm guessing that they chose to focus on the childlike Ranka more since Japan loves loli's and she had the most room and potential for development, as compared to the 'already matured' (mostly) Sheryl.
They didn't because they didn't care to is my thought. She was apparently not even meant to be a real character originally. I get the sense that the writing staff aren't really invested in bringing her to life. Creating scenes for her, actual personal interactions. SHe's just one side of the love triangle and they're going for the bare minimum in that regard.
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Old 2008-08-17, 18:37   Link #1177
aneeshadc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post

They didn't because they didn't care to is my thought. She was apparently not even meant to be a real character originally. I get the sense that the writing staff aren't really invested in bringing her to life. Creating scenes for her, actual personal interactions. SHe's just one side of the love triangle and they're going for the bare minimum in that regard.
Well, I dunno, I get the feeling that if they focused more on Sheryl then she would have completely overshadowed Ranka & then we would'nt have much of a triangle then would we? So Its not that they did'nt care to , I believe they figured that the bare minimum focus they did give her was enuf to make her endearing to the viewers and wat do u know it worked!
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Old 2008-08-17, 18:39   Link #1178
aneeshadc
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For the most part at least with a few exceptions.
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Old 2008-08-17, 18:46   Link #1179
Wesley84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aneeshadc View Post
Well, I dunno, I get the feeling that if they focused more on Sheryl then she would have completely overshadowed Ranka & then we would'nt have much of a triangle then would we? So Its not that they did'nt care to , I believe they figured that the bare minimum focus they did give her was enuf to make her endearing to the viewers and wat do u know it worked!
At least then she would have actually earned recognition. "I'm Sheryl!" and "Alto!" sizes up her character nicely. Basically, imagine Meer Campell recieveing alot more screen-time then she did. That's what you have with Sheryl as far as utility goes.
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Old 2008-08-17, 19:44   Link #1180
aneeshadc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
At least then she would have actually earned recognition. "I'm Sheryl!" and "Alto!" sizes up her character nicely. Basically, imagine Meer Campell recieveing alot more screen-time then she did. That's what you have with Sheryl as far as utility goes.
Well, thats a matter of perspective. You perceive her character differently than me. I feel there's a lot more to her character than I'm Sheryl and Alto.
"i'm Sheryl" was a facade to begin with, never a sign of her arrogance as many believed. So it doesnt aptly define her.
Neither does "Alto" cos she doesnt chase alto when she's down, anxious, sad or vulnerable quite the contrary, she spends all of her good times with alto, she seeks him out to enjoy his company, nothing more or less, so I dont see how "Alto" defines her either.
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