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Old 2008-08-17, 19:46   Link #1181
aneeshadc
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About Meer Campbell, sry havnt watched any of the gundam series, though i think i know who she is........wasnt she the one who had to impersonate as Lacus Clyne or smthing like that?
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Old 2008-08-17, 19:49   Link #1182
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by aneeshadc View Post
About Meer Campbell, sry havnt watched any of the gundam series, though i think i know who she is........wasnt she the one who had to impersonate as Lacus Clyne or smthing like that?
Yes, by the end of the series she had completely invested herself in being Lacus Clyne. "I'm Lacus! I'm Lacus Clyne!" to the point of waving a gun around. Let's just hope Alto's dad doesn't have any orienmental swords laying around.
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Old 2008-08-17, 19:57   Link #1183
aneeshadc
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lol! though I really dont see sheryl swinging arund swords.
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Old 2008-08-17, 20:07   Link #1184
MaiHikari
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Originally Posted by aneeshadc View Post
Well, thats a matter of perspective. You perceive her character differently than me. I feel there's a lot more to her character than I'm Sheryl and Alto.
"i'm Sheryl" was a facade to begin with, never a sign of her arrogance as many believed. So it doesnt aptly define her.
Neither does "Alto" cos she doesnt chase alto when she's down, anxious, sad or vulnerable quite the contrary, she spends all of her good times with alto, she seeks him out to enjoy his company, nothing more or less, so I dont see how "Alto" defines her either.
"Watashi wa Sheryl Nome" is a phrase she used to indicate that she determines her own destiny. She takes her fate in her own hand and create the definition for the term "Sheryl Nome."

If the movie director asked her to change her song, she accepts the challenge to write a better song. If the term was meant to be arrogant, she would have thrown it back at the director and said she's Sheryl Nome, a popular idol, he needs to bow down to her. It was never used as an arrangant term to look down on everyone else. She supports Ranka to pursue her dreams when she heard her sing. If she was arrogant she would have told the girl "nice try".

Even now she still used the term to define herself. Even in the face of death. Because Sheryl is Sheryl. Not just an idol, not just a singer, not just a face. She is because she loves, she sings, she lives, and she does. One can acheive self actualization without being arrogant and looks down on everyone else.

And yes, I agree. She's never defined herself as Alto. That was way off base.
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Old 2008-08-17, 20:27   Link #1185
Tak
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Originally Posted by MaiHikari View Post
If the movie director asked her to change her song, she accepts the challenge to write a better song. If the term was meant to be arrogant, she would have thrown it back at the director and said she's Sheryl Nome, a popular idol, he needs to bow down to her. It was never used as an arrangant term to look down on everyone else. She supports Ranka to pursue her dreams when she heard her sing. If she was arrogant she would have told the girl "nice try".
And despite all of her support for Ranka, I somehow have the feeling that Ranka is ready to throw some major tantrums at her. That is, after witnessing the now infamous roof scene.

- Tak
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Old 2008-08-17, 20:34   Link #1186
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by MaiHikari View Post
"Watashi wa Sheryl Nome" is a phrase she used to indicate that she determines her own destiny. She takes her fate in her own hand and create the definition for the term "Sheryl Nome."
It's something she says whenever she's confronted with something that's beyond her ability to deal with. "I'm Sheryl and this is nothing!" completely ignoring everything without appreciation. Quite pathetic really.

Quote:
If the movie director asked her to change her song, she accepts the challenge to write a better song. If the term was meant to be arrogant, she would have thrown it back at the director and said she's Sheryl Nome, a popular idol, he needs to bow down to her. It was never used as an arrangant term to look down on everyone else. She supports Ranka to pursue her dreams when she heard her sing. If she was arrogant she would have told the girl "nice try".
He didn't ask her to write a new song, and she pointed out the song wasn't appropiate because it wasn't a song written for it's intended use, which makes sense. I wish they'd spent more time with her doing professional, creative, stuff like that, rather than crying over or chasing after Alto.

It's actually ironic really...a song used for an inappropiate scene, and a character used inappropiately for a god-forsaken love triangle.

Oh, and Sheryl never actually helped Ranka. Shallow, empty words that could have came from a fortune cookie don't count as seriously supporting someone's endeavors.

Quote:
Even now she still used the term to define herself. Even in the face of death. Because Sheryl is Sheryl. Not just an idol, not just a singer, not just a face. She is because she loves, she sings, she lives, and she does. One can acheive self actualization without being arrogant and looks down on everyone else.
She does look down on everyone else, she doesn't appreciate anything. Hell, you'd think a real artist would appreciate dying at a young age. Beautiful tragedy and all that. She's not taking the prospect of death at all well, and it's not the first time. Even back in the shelter, she was prepared to space herself, Alto, and Ranka, all because she was Sheryl dammit and that apparently gave her the right to take people with her.

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And yes, I agree. She's never defined herself as Alto. That was way off base.
Besides herself, Alto's all she cares about for whatever reason. That's what that meant.
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Old 2008-08-17, 20:34   Link #1187
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Sheryl's always one to do what she wants add to that she's dieing, ain't nothing gonna stop her from acting out on her feelings.
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Old 2008-08-17, 20:36   Link #1188
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
And despite all of her support for Ranka, I somehow have the feeling that Ranka is ready to throw some major tantrums at her. That is, after witnessing the now infamous roof scene.

- Tak
What, you actually expect Ranka to work for something? You don't want it to be handed to her?

She's taken Alto for granted for far too long. She expects him to be there for her whenever she needs him.

Sheryl Will tell Alto to go console Ranka next episode. Mark my words. Sheryl's not the same as Ranka by any means.

Fight on Sheryl!
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Old 2008-08-17, 20:39   Link #1189
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by squaresphere View Post
Sheryl's always one to do what she wants add to that she's dieing, ain't nothing gonna stop her from acting out on her feelings.
Three out of ten says she'll strap herself to a Dimension Eater, and have Alto fly her into the maw of a Vajra Mothership.
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Old 2008-08-17, 20:41   Link #1190
aneeshadc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaiHikari View Post
"Watashi wa Sheryl Nome" is a phrase she used to indicate that she determines her own destiny. She takes her fate in her own hand and create the definition for the term "Sheryl Nome."

If the movie director asked her to change her song, she accepts the challenge to write a better song. If the term was meant to be arrogant, she would have thrown it back at the director and said she's Sheryl Nome, a popular idol, he needs to bow down to her. It was never used as an arrangant term to look down on everyone else. She supports Ranka to pursue her dreams when she heard her sing. If she was arrogant she would have told the girl "nice try".

Even now she still used the term to define herself. Even in the face of death. Because Sheryl is Sheryl. Not just an idol, not just a singer, not just a face. She is because she loves, she sings, she lives, and she does. One can acheive self actualization without being arrogant and looks down on everyone else.

And yes, I agree. She's never defined herself as Alto. That was way off base.
Exactly! my bad , did'nt get that point across as well as you did.
"I'm Sheryl' wasnt just a facade, but its like a confirmation of who she is too, so ya it does define her to an extent. .
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Old 2008-08-17, 20:48   Link #1191
Teletha
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Originally Posted by aneeshadc View Post
About Meer Campbell, sry havnt watched any of the gundam series, though i think i know who she is........wasnt she the one who had to impersonate as Lacus Clyne or smthing like that?
Yes, and in the end that whole thing ended up killing her because she couldn't find worth in herself and figure out how to step out of being Lacus. Or she preferred Lacus to herself. I loved Meer (actually a lot more then Lacus and she has more personality too ), but she is in no way shape or form like Sheryl. Meer was delusional and wanted to be someone she's not. Sheryl is Sheryl. I don't even get the comparison. At all.
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Old 2008-08-17, 21:01   Link #1192
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by Teletha View Post
Yes, and in the end that whole thing ended up killing her because she couldn't find worth in herself and figure out how to step out of being Lacus.
I'm pretty sure what killed her was getting shot.

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Or she preferred Lacus to herself.
What she prefered was everyone believeing she was Lacus, rather than a nobody like Meer.

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I loved Meer (actually a lot more then Lacus and she has more personality too ),
And I bet you prefer Sheryl over Ranka for the same reason.

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but she is in no way shape or form like Sheryl. Meer was delusional and wanted to be someone she's not. Sheryl is Sheryl. I don't even get the comparison. At all.
She never stopped being Meer. She took on Lacus's face and her name, but ultimately it was about being more than what she was, a nobody. She liked being famous, she liked performing, and becoming Lacus allowed that to happen. Exactly like Sheryl who is a manufactured Idol, used by some big headed conspiracist to whatever end.
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Old 2008-08-17, 21:55   Link #1193
aneeshadc
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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
It's something she says whenever she's confronted with something that's beyond her ability to deal with. "I'm Sheryl and this is nothing!" completely ignoring everything without appreciation. Quite pathetic really.



He didn't ask her to write a new song, and she pointed out the song wasn't appropiate because it wasn't a song written for it's intended use, which makes sense. I wish they'd spent more time with her doing professional, creative, stuff like that, rather than crying over or chasing after Alto.

It's actually ironic really...a song used for an inappropiate scene, and a character used inappropiately for a god-forsaken love triangle.

Oh, and Sheryl never actually helped Ranka. Shallow, empty words that could have came from a fortune cookie don't count as seriously supporting someone's endeavors.



She does look down on everyone else, she doesn't appreciate anything. Hell, you'd think a real artist would appreciate dying at a young age. Beautiful tragedy and all that. She's not taking the prospect of death at all well, and it's not the first time. Even back in the shelter, she was prepared to space herself, Alto, and Ranka, all because she was Sheryl dammit and that apparently gave her the right to take people with her.



Besides herself, Alto's all she cares about for whatever reason. That's what that meant.




How is it pathetic? What do you expect her to do? Give in to the supposedly hopeless situation and not try to convince herself and others that there are other possibilities! The fact that she uses "I'm Sheryl" means that she is very much aware of their dire circumstances and not ignoring that she attempts to better their situation.

There have been only been two scenes so far we've seen Sheryl crying. The concert scene in ep 7 and her breakdown in ep 18.While the first can be seen as crying for alto, u can hardly blame her, wud'nt u feel despair if somene u cared about was going to war, and there is also the possibility that her homeland ...well u get the picture.
In the latter scene, Its quite obvious Sheryl wasnt crying over Alto, She's crying because she's dying. She doesnt have a future to look forward to, with or without Alto. Her alto hallucination is nothing but her UNCONSCIOUSLY reaching out for Alto in her time of need, quite a human reaction, IMO.

I loved the use of the DYRL song, it had quite an impact on me, very appropriate and heartbreaking, i actually cried.

Again, its a wonder how u see sheryl as shallow & unsupportive with regards to Ranka. The series has been quite clear about it. And sheryls supportive words which you deem as shallow and empty were said at the right opportune moment and did have an impact on both Alto and ranka whether she and you recognize it or not. She not only offered words, but also offered her a spot in one of her programs in ep 8, i dont see why she would do that if she was looking down on her.

Rightttttttt, Of course , She's supposed to appreciate her impending death as tragically beautiful since she is supposedly a dedicated artist
I really hope you can read the sarcasm there.
Come on , of course she's not taking the prospect of death well, She's not supposed too, I dont think anyone should.
Back in the shelter, they would have died in 15 minutes anyway, wat did they hav to lose in doing as she said... nothing! There was everything to gain and nothing to lose!

Not True! She cares for a lot of things besides Alo and herself.
She hates life at Galaxy yet she despairs at its loss, that shows her care and attachment to it despite her horrible childhood.
She loves her work and singing as indicated by her professionalism and her occasional bouts of muses during her star date with alto.
She cares about her fans because she has never neglected her responsibilities to sing for them or give an interview, unless she is ill of course.
She cares enuf abt Klan & Michael to assure them that she is alright.
She cares enuf abt ranka to offer a few words of encouragement here & there when she didnt have to.
She cares about life in general which is evident in her enjoyment,awe & appreciation of frontier during her star date. I think it is safe to assume that she has formed an attachment to frontier as wel.
I'm sure she cared about Grace at some level, mayb not deeply though but definitely at some level as is evident by her hurt and anger at her betrayal. I dont even hav to touch on alto I believe, since ur already convinced of her attachment to him. Shes obviously in love with him.
Whew, think m done.
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Old 2008-08-17, 22:01   Link #1194
aneeshadc
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Yes, and in the end that whole thing ended up killing her because she couldn't find worth in herself and figure out how to step out of being Lacus. Or she preferred Lacus to herself. I loved Meer (actually a lot more then Lacus and she has more personality too ), but she is in no way shape or form like Sheryl. Meer was delusional and wanted to be someone she's not. Sheryl is Sheryl. I don't even get the comparison. At all.
Oh! Ya, i can see y u dont get the comparison. Their situation seems to me to be completely different.
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Old 2008-08-17, 22:05   Link #1195
aneeshadc
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Oh & hw do u guys manage to qoute on each paragraph separately.. I dont get hw to do that?:confused
Go ahead call me dumb, but i guess i a little slow wen it cums to things like this
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Old 2008-08-17, 22:16   Link #1196
MaiHikari
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Just put the /QUOTE code where you want to cut it up and resume the quote with QUOTE and /QUOTE codes before and after what you want to quote. Or click on the quote button. Don't forget the []. Hope that makes sense. I'm not very good with instruction since I can't use the actual codes themselves in the message.
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Old 2008-08-17, 22:20   Link #1197
Tak
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What, you actually expect Ranka to work for something? You don't want it to be handed to her?
Oh, give Captn doggy ears some credit. She threw her lot into the idol business and certain did work to become the star that she is.

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Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
She's taken Alto for granted for far too long. She expects him to be there for her whenever she needs him.
I never doubted that.

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Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Sheryl Will tell Alto to go console Ranka next episode. Mark my words. Sheryl's not the same as Ranka by any means.
Oh please, as if I haven't seen that coming from miles away.

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Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Fight on Sheryl!
Spoiler for Oh, she will...:


- Tak
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Old 2008-08-17, 22:28   Link #1198
Wesley84
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Oh I can't believe I took you off ignore. She died because she wouldn't leave when she could have left and survived. Or any time before. It's not as simple as a gun killed her. Yes literally a gun did kill her, but her inability to stop being Lacus is what actually killed her.
Can't take a joke? More like she wasn't smart enough to get going when the going was good. I still don't think you can say taking on the role of being Gil's Lacus is what killed her, since she died taking a bullet for Lacus for whatever it's worth.

Quote:
No shit? It seems you enjoy splitting hairs and acting like you are saying something differently then I said and repeating it back.
There's a distinction. I'm convinced Meer did things the way she wanted to, like the outfits and performing, the music. She didn't actually change who she was. Just used Lacus's name for utility purposes.

Quote:
Oh shit! You figured it out!!!!!!!!!



Sheryl has personality! We like her. What do you say that like it's bad thing. I could list a hundred reasons why I like Ranka over Sheryl. I don't understand why you get so offended when people like Sheryl.
Mostly because they slather her character with her unwarranted praise. She's not really in a league above most of the other characters in the series, but people just love her to bits when she hasn't overcome anything, cares nothing for anyone or anything, and has no personal goals other than being Sheryl. She exists solely for the sake of the love triangle.

And no, it doesn't matter if characters in the series regard her as serious business. That's just them rolling over like dogs for her. The only one with any credibility in regards to Sheryl is Grace who you can imagine is both somewhat proud and contemptious of Sheryl.

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She didn't want to be herself any longer and for all intents and purposes Meer was dead. She couldn't go back to what she was. She figured it out too late.
Yeah, just like Sheryl. Gutter trash and all that.

Quote:
It's not exactly like Sheryl at all. Sheryl might have been placed in a situation that got her fame (just like Ranka), but everything after that was her name, her work, her lyrics, her voice and her songs. She didn't use anyone's name and replace someone. Sheryl's "I am Sheryl Nome" is not her trying to convince herself that she is in fact, Sheryl Nome. She is Sheryl Nome. It's about more about her own destiny and how nobody gave her anything. She'll realize that even if Grace was there, Sheryl is the one who made it happen. Right now she doubts her words are true, but as Alto pointed out in episode 19. They are true.
Sheryl's a manufactured Idol. We don't know to what extent though. I imagine Grace went to great lengths raising and encouraging her. Otherwise it's simply stupid for Sheryl to be taking it as hard as she is. The reality has to be that Sheryl is where she ended up because of someone else for any of it to make senes.

You know what the real shame is? In Episode Five Sheryl alludes to some kind of regret regarding her own debut, but now it's probably past time for that to be relevant. Maybe if they'd skipped that lame Sniper-episode or if Sheryl actually shared some of her personal experiences with Ranka, rather than tossing fortune cookies, we'd know more about her.

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Why are we discussing Gundam in a Macross forum anyway.
Personal Identity as a motiviation for a pair of similiarly rolled and developed characters.
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Old 2008-08-17, 22:29   Link #1199
aneeshadc
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Originally Posted by MaiHikari View Post
Just put the /QUOTE code where you want to cut it up and resume the quote with QUOTE and /QUOTE codes before and after what you want to quote. Or click on the quote button. Don't forget the []. Hope that makes sense. I'm not very good with instruction since I can't use the actual codes themselves in the message.
Thnx, will try it next time.
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Old 2008-08-17, 22:49   Link #1200
Elazul
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Sheryl is far from being arrogant. She is actually a strong character, and the anime already emphasized it numerous times.
Based on what we already know about her past so far, she had a miserable childhood, being an orphan and living on streets and all. Then Grace, the worst person possible, took her only to be a subject, and I really doubt that she shared some family moments with her or experienced any kind of maternal love. But Sheryl trusted her, and only had her to receive support or friendship, and lived with this evil villain for years.
Sheryl is shown as being mature, professional, and independent; she cares for her fans and even for the Galaxy, the place where she had a poor life. Though she is prideful of what she has become, we never saw any sign of arrogance on her actions, despite the fame and the status of an idol are the only things that she can attach to surpass the lack of love, and maybe she never had a real one.
Now she absolutely lost everything, and realized that her manager and friend really dont care about her at all, and she was being used this whole time, plus she is dying. This is so much pain for one person to bear, but Sheryl keep it all to herself, to not be a burden for Alto, and put his happiness above her feelings, sacrificing a chance to have a true love.
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