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Old 2008-08-18, 11:30   Link #1221
Marina Ismail
<3 Sheryl Saotome
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I don't know why it's so hard for him to just stay out of the Sheryl thread.... back at NF he complained and cussed about Gundam 00 sucking, yet he WATCHED the series and now he is going to WATCH SEASON 2!? Wtf? It's just weird geez....

Anyways, I love Sheryl's pinkish blonde hair, never seen an anime character with hair like that. Looks very enchanting instead of vomit colour :d
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Old 2008-08-18, 12:26   Link #1222
NoOneKnowS
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I really want to know what sheryl and Alto talked about is EP19. You know before the cliche Ranka saw them hugging each other part. Are they already a "unofficial" couple? Wish so; Ranka can just go down to being the second choice(or ok no choice) for all i care if ever sheyrl dies.

EDIT: oh yeah; I'm getting quite uneasy how Sheryl and Alto's stupid looking brother look so comfortable w/ each other.
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Old 2008-08-18, 13:50   Link #1223
Lostdreams
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Originally Posted by NoOneKnowS View Post
I really want to know what sheryl and Alto talked about is EP19. You know before the cliche Ranka saw them hugging each other part. Are they already a "unofficial" couple? Wish so; Ranka can just go down to being the second choice(or ok no choice) for all i care if ever sheyrl dies.

EDIT: oh yeah; I'm getting quite uneasy how Sheryl and Alto's stupid looking brother look so comfortable w/ each other.
I think the bro thing is a good sign. I think that he thinks that Sheryl is gonna bring Alto back to acting.

EDIT: After I thought about it, it feels bad. For some reason he looks evil. All people in anime who don't open their eyes are evil.
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Old 2008-08-18, 14:44   Link #1224
SymphonicRain
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Quote:
EDIT: After I thought about it, it feels bad. For some reason he looks evil. All people in anime who don't open their eyes are evil.
Not true. Yakumo of 3X3 eyes has slitty eyes and is the main protagonist of the series.

Anyway.
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Old 2008-08-18, 15:59   Link #1225
aneeshadc
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Aneeshadc, please stop quoting Whiney. A score of people have him on ignore, for a good reason.
Sry, Couldnt resist taking the bait! You've all had ur moments with him, mayb I jus wanted try my hand too

Quote:
Originally Posted by kilroy0097 View Post
I have to admit that I agree with Wesley84 on some of his points but not all. A few of the paragraphs he said in that post above I do see where he is coming from but only because I am one of the few that doesn't give Sheryl an automatic passing grade for being Sheryl. I think she has serious weaknesses in her character which is what makes her interesting and not ordinary. Meanwhile while Ranka is cute and cuddly she doesn't have all the depth that Sheryl has and so doesn't garner as much of a fan base. Drama attracts fans. Once again as a disclaimer I enjoy both Sheryl and Ranka as characters.
Oh, I actually think He's reasonable at times too, just seems to hate Sheryl quite a bit and wanted to know y. I dont think any MF characters are worthy of hatred really. I enjoy them all. I agree with u that Sheryl has serious weaknesses in her Character as well but to quote u that is what makes her interesting ! But I dont see y the intense dislike for either ranka or sheryl, annoyed, frustrated yes, but being downright abusive of them ?And I like Ranka as well even if Sheryl is my Fav character. I luv a gud argument as long as the poster doesnt take things personally and is fanatic beyond reason.

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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Or if you must, use the spoiler tag, and add a warning label.

- Tak
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Old 2008-08-18, 16:20   Link #1226
Mughi
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by kilroy0097 View Post
I have to admit that I agree with Wesley84 on some of his points but not all. .. while Ranka is cute and cuddly she doesn't have all the depth that Sheryl has and so doesn't garner as much of a fan base. Drama attracts fans. Once again as a disclaimer I enjoy both Sheryl and Ranka as characters.
I agree wholeheartedley. Sheryl is far from perfect, and that's by design. It's what makes her worth caring about. But by the same token, Ranka is the other side of the same coin. I like them both equally and am pulling for both. Great thing about that is no matter which ending we get, only killing off both girls, or Alto, keeps me from getting a satisfying conclusion.
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Old 2008-08-18, 17:15   Link #1227
MaiHikari
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I don't think anyone said Sheryl's perfect, then she'd be boring. We'd have nothing to debate about.

She's willful, untrusting, flashy, and too damn stubborn for her own good. But her imperfections are far more interesting. The most interesting character I've seen in an anime in a long time. (Actually, most interesting female char. Lelouch is probably the most interesting male.)
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Old 2008-08-18, 18:00   Link #1228
Tak
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Originally Posted by MaiHikari View Post
Lelouch is probably the most interesting male.
Slightly off topic:

While I won't argue against that point here, I do recommend Legend of the Galactic Heroes, and I guarantee once you are immersed with the story, you will see some very interesting similarities.

- Tak
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Old 2008-08-18, 18:07   Link #1229
aneeshadc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
Except she clearly wants to die on her own terms, if the freak out in the shelter is any indication. I guess being sick and dying doesn't suit her, but rather than being angry about it, she keeps crying.

Actually there's some kind of acceptance phase that involes denial, anger, etc. in regard to death. I wonder if they're using it for Sheryl's character?
I cant believe we're actually arguing abt sheryl having issues with hw she wants to die. I think She has issues with dying period.
Anger will come, but after the initial feeling of despair.
She is going through the acceptance phase step by step. First comes shock, then comes denial, both of which we saw from her, the former when Grace mentions that she is literally going to die and denial in the car when she says that its a lie. Then comes despair=cying scene. After that vulnerable moment, when she has had time to think through a few things, we see her make the difficult choice of pushing alto away to carry her burden alone. She is still midway in this phase. Next comes anger & as indicated by her blog, She will show plenty of it when the time is right. I cant wait to see her unleash all of her glorious anger at Grace.

Quote:
Partially because she's a professional bullshitter, as evident from the previous episode when she did some PR work at request of the government. Partially because it's just not believeable she'd care about Alto in any particular way at that point. And partially because crying like that just looked so damn good and it obviously played to the audience as well as Ranka. She couldn't have planned it better, which is why I think she DID plan it. Or possibly ablibbed a bit.
Sure. She's a professional, but even professionals have their amateur moments. She is not perfect. She is human, which is y her professional mask cracked some so we can get a glimpse of the anxious Sheryl that is under pressure & trying to not think abt the death bell to her homeland and continue to sing. As simple as that. You are faulting her for making a very human mistake.



Quote:
I think if they seriously wanted her to care about Galaxy, they'd have shown her having a more active interest in the search for it, as well as rumors. Rather than playing hookie at Alto's stupid school.
She's a singer, not some super detective. You are expecting too much from her. She doesnt hav access to info like grace does and she has made use of grace & her info as much as she could hav. I dont see hw u expect her to get info when noone in frontier other than grace or possibly leon know the fate of galaxy.
I've always thought it was stupid when in most other animes, we see heroines do sme snooping and voila! they find clues out of nowhere and suddenly see the light.
They've painted a very real portrait of Sheryl so we can see her limitations and hw she deals with them.
I'd say she deservers a break after the emotionally charged events of the previous episode. Everyone needs to play hookie at least once in their lives. (And on that note , u need to go play hookie too. lighten up a bit) I see her as adaptable to people and situations but in a very believable way. Her adaptability is the quality I like the most abt her.( Oh and TAk thnx for coining that word, it really does aptly describe her moreso than "i'm Sheryl")

Quote:
I get the feeling Alto isn't really interested in either of them. He's just playing the part because it's the role he was made for.
I dunno, he definitely cares abt both of them, just think he doesnt want to commit romantically to either at this point mostly cos he hasnt deiphered the extent of his feelings for them yet.


Quote:
Yeah, fans get excited, but I think most of the homage is just tossed in for that reason. Not that it actually works with the scene or episode or whatever. You should take the established universe, respect the parameters set within it, and create a story within those guidelines. Not harken back to days of old that has no bearing on the present.
well, each to his own, I guess, i dont mind them. And you're right, the homages is mostly just to get them excited, probably doesnt hav anything to do with the plot, not in any major way atleast.



Quote:
I'm not really faulting Sheryl for chucking fortune cookies at Ranka. I am saying her "help" wasn't as helpful as people like to pretend it was, and that it would have served both characters if Ranka and Sheryl actually tried to relate to one another. We get to know more about Sheryl, Ranka gets some useful information and learns what she might expect. That sort of thing.
Its the way decided to do things, partly to build up the mystery behind Sheryl's origins. Mayb her help wasnt as helpful, but it still had an an impact on ranka in the 1st few episodes atleast, hwever little. And the thoughts behind the help also count.



Quote:
I'm crediting Grace with a personal and meticulious upbringing of Sheryl. I imagine Sheryl did manage to meet most of Grace's expectations, but she was handed every tool she'd need to fullfill her role. She was given singing, dance, lessons, boxing to boost her confidence and athletism, along with medication to supress her disease ridden body.
Of course there's a good chance Grace didn't interact with Sheryl at all. Sheryl's never regarded Grace as a parental figure, and even when Sheryl confronted Grace about her working with Ranka, it was all about why not Sheryl, instead of why Grace. It's just hard to imagine Grace not having a hands on approach to Sheryl's developement.
I have to disagree with u on the sheryl needs to feel immense gratitude to grace for providing her with all of the stuff u mentioned above. If Grace picked a little orphan girl up from the streets then it was her duty to see to all of her material and health needs, mind u she obviously provided her with the facilities becos she had needed to use her as a tool before ranka came into the pic. For all of the material & health care, Sheryl has responded in kind by diligently working and taking care of herself until she was given pills by grace resulting in side effects.
For an emotional response from Sheryl, there needs to be an emotional attachment b/w them which I dont see, mayb a mutual respect (fake on Grace's side) and an impersonal working relationship is all they've ever shared is my take on things. Considering the evilness of Grace, I cant see her as having been personally kind to Sheryl, aloofly kind ya, but not on a personal level where sheryl might feel like relying on her a bit instead of her ownself. Sheryl i believe from a tender young age has dealt with her fears and uncertainties on her own, without an ounce of comfort from Grace.



Quote:
It's simple. Sheryl sees Ranka as a puppy, pats her head, tells her she's a good girl, and this is affirming for Ranka. Rinse and repeat.
Hmm.... Do u think Alto thinks the same too? since that pretty much describes hw alto treats ranka
As for Sheryl, recognizing ranka's talent, telling her to try for the Miss Macross contest, seeing her as a rival for Alto's affections does not fall under the category of treat ranka as a puppy.( notice i did not include the advices u deem as bones here, only the decisive moments of Sheryl's perception of ranka)


Quote:
People cope with dying in different ways. I just think that for artists, actors, and musicians, that if they're going to die, they'll at least have left something of themselves behind, which usually benefits from them actually being gone. But no, all Sheryl can evidently think about is Alto and everything she's "lost". Can't even comfort herself.
True, but u see it really is the wrong time for Sheryl to kick the bucket since atm noone seems to remember she even exists besides alto, klan and michael.
Again Its a natural, instinctive 1st reaction. Already explained in detail above.



Quote:
What do you mean?
By Define better, I meant u saying that there were better ways to deal with impending death threat & wanted to see urdefinition of better copinf tactics.... but dont bother explaining again, i got wat u mean.



Quote:
Yes! Open the air lock and make certain they die! The Sheryl Nome way!
Yes! Open the air lock and make cetain that they atleast have a choice b/w survival and death as opposed to the limited option of dying of suffocation in 11 min and .....dying of suffocation in 11 min......&....dying of suff.......u get the picture yet?



Quote:
Kinda. In a way it's my challenging the writing staff to prove me wrong.

I would expect most people to agree with me that "Creative Sheryl" hasn't been used nearly enough. You know, the Sheryl that wrote song lyrics on a giant pair of panties? Where the hell did she go?
I agree. But she's not gone really, they've just chosen to address other aspects of her character to make her more well rounded.


[QUOTE[Because she wants to tell him so they can have a good cry together. You know, make the scene where it'd be most effective.[/QUOTE]

No, I Dont Know.Explained above.




Quote:
Not at all. She's spent way too much freakin' time with Alto, and otherwise jealous of Ranka. She's such a damn poser and walks all over people, who just roll over for her. Sheryl's even said herself on one occasion, that people are sheep, and that's evidently very true in Macross Frontier.
Spending too much time with alto, an odd criteria for disliking smone. Do i sense sm jeolousy of ur own? Ur not secretly gunning for either Sheryl or Alto are you?
Havnt seen her being jealous of ranka except in ep 1 jus b4 the sing off.
The rest we'll have to agree to disagree. Dont recall her ever sayin that pple are sheep.




Quote:
I say taken for granted because of how she responded to Grace. Instead of asking why Grace left Sheryl, she asks why Ranka and not Sheryl. I didn't get the impression that Sheryl considered Grace a friend, least of all a parent, from that scene. She was just this somebody that provided for her and gave her everything she needed.
Because she didnt! Grace was just somebody who provided her the basic necessities period.
Sheryl asking y ranka and not her, i interpreted that scene as Sheryl asking Grace if she had done smthing wrong that made Grace discard her and decide to become rankas manager. I saw that as her questioning Grace if there was sm deficiency on her own part.


Quote:
I'm curious to just how much interaction Grace has had with Sheryl. If Grace is someone that's been with Sheryl for a very long time, there's no reason for Sheryl to see Grace as just her manager.
I think thats very much possible. Speaking from personal experince, Even if the person has been with u from a long time, provided u with everying u needed but refrained from giving u personal/emotional support, its hard to feel emotional attachment to pple like that even if it is a blood relative. She'd be grateful for the provisions, use them well but that doesnt stop her from feeling emotionally detached from Grace and feel rightful resentment & all that.
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Old 2008-08-18, 18:33   Link #1230
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by kilroy0097 View Post
I have to admit that I agree with Wesley84 on some of his points but not all.
Like what?

Quote:
but only because I am one of the few that doesn't give Sheryl an automatic passing grade for being Sheryl. I think she has serious weaknesses in her character
Such as?

Quote:
which is what makes her interesting and not ordinary.
Interesting and unordinary how? She seems like a typical celebrity if you ask me.

Quote:
Meanwhile while Ranka is cute and cuddly she doesn't have all the depth that Sheryl
What depth?

Quote:
has and so doesn't garner as much of a fan base.
I say it's elitism. Ranka is practically a commoner as anime standards go, both design, story, and personality-wise, thus many people have written her off as beneath their notice without appreciating whether or not her story is told well (it's impossible to be original). Sheryl on the other hand carries herself like a whimiscally benevolant tyrant. There's absolutely nothing humble about her. People roll over like dogs for her.

You want to know a character that is like Sheryl, but a million times better? Anya from 20th Century's FOX's Anatasia. Sweet little girl, lost her memory and family, but carries herself like a queen while in rags. Also enjoys a nice love-hate relationship with a debenaor con-man, who incidently saved her life as children. Huge crush of mine and a favorite movie.

Quote:
Drama attracts fans.
Yeah, like, Ranka being told she has Fold bugs growing inside of her and the closest living family she has are the space bugs she's helped destroy won't be the least bit dramatic. Nothing at all compared to "My life is over!"-Sheryl, who seems to expect people to think about and consider her all the freakin' time. So what one of your bizillion posters is laying in the street and a surplus of your stupid CDs exists?
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Old 2008-08-18, 18:35   Link #1231
Teletha
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You can do spoiler tags [ spoiler] text here [/ spoiler] with no space, , for those who don't want to see it. But you should give up. It's no use.
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Old 2008-08-18, 18:39   Link #1232
Darial
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My ignore list just keeps going up. Ignorance is like a contagious disease. <sigh>

Last edited by Darial; 2008-08-18 at 19:01.
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Old 2008-08-18, 19:27   Link #1233
aneeshadc
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Originally Posted by Teletha View Post
You can do spoiler tags [ spoiler] text here [/ spoiler] with no space, , for those who don't want to see it. But you should give up. It's no use.
Thnx.
You're right. After seeing his most recent post, I give up but do not concede defeat!
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Old 2008-08-18, 19:59   Link #1234
Ithekro
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This is why we have extremist on both side of an issue. People think differently. Some character one person loves another person hates. One ideology works for one person but not another.

However this range and type of argument is getting into the range of discussing politics or religion. Neither is advised to be discussed in public as it tends to result in arguments.

I can say that the show was not made for everyone. The writers did not craft a perfect work for all to enjoy, nor did they intend for everyone to love the same chatacters. They may have infact crafted a series that different people can like for conflicting reasons. One cannot get the writers to prove themselves to you here because I doubt they read an English language forum. So it is best to not dwell on such things.
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Old 2008-08-18, 20:11   Link #1235
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
However this range and type of argument is getting into the range of discussing politics or religion. Neither is advised to be discussed in public as it tends to result in arguments.
Am I doing such a thing? Mostly I criticise Sheryl's conduct and self-centeredness, while spiting the writers for not expanding her role and character. Also, I just hate how people are not only okay with what they're actually getting, they honestly believe they're getting more than they bargained for in regards to her. It's like walking away from a used-car dealership thinking you've gained a bargain by paying sticker price.

Check under the hood people!

Quote:
I can say that the show was not made for everyone. The writers did not craft a perfect work for all to enjoy, nor did they intend for everyone to love the same chatacters. They may have infact crafted a series that different people can like for conflicting reasons. One cannot get the writers to prove themselves to you here because I doubt they read an English language forum. So it is best to not dwell on such things.
It's probably too late for Sheryl and Macross Frontier, but I like to think I'm raising the bar for future productions in my own little way.
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Old 2008-08-18, 20:51   Link #1236
Westlo
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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
It's probably too late for Sheryl and Macross Frontier, but I like to think I'm raising the bar for future productions in my own little way.
you defend the shocking plot hole of kira surviving the explosion against athrun in seed, you have no fucking quality bar.
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Old 2008-08-18, 20:54   Link #1237
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiner84
It's probably too late for Sheryl and Macross Frontier, but I like to think I'm raising the bar for future productions in my own little way.
And what is your bar? So that we may collectively rise or sink alongside it.

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Old 2008-08-18, 21:13   Link #1238
solothurn
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Ugh. Can we just put the Wesley on our ignore lists and move on? All he's doing is mucking up the thread and wasting bandwidth.
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Old 2008-08-18, 21:13   Link #1239
aneeshadc
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Originally Posted by Darial View Post
My ignore list just keeps going up. Ignorance is like a contagious disease. <sigh>
Your avatar makes me smile. That locker scene was so hilarious! Luv Hw misleading your avatar is. It really looks like they're getting it on.
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Old 2008-08-18, 21:14   Link #1240
Ithekro
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Hmmm.

Unless you think somehow your posts are getting to the Japanese writer, I serious doubt your opinions will be raising the bar in anyones productions.

To think of a Star Wars example. Take Jar Jar Binks.

How often do you find a Jar Jar Binks fan? When you find one, is it worth even trying to argue with them. Or the opposite. How do you reason with a Jar Jar hater?

Extremes. It is generally unwise to try to agrue extreme as one will not get their point across, and if you do it on the turf on the other side, you will come off as a troll or idiot at best, even if you are neither of these things. It just isn't worth the effort.
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