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Old 2008-09-09, 13:52   Link #1541
Mughi
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Eh, most of the Japanese fandom think they had sex. You will also have to be careful with the text being said according to cultural context.

Since there is really not a direct word in Japanese that can sums up the phrase "lets make love", you camouflage it by other means. When Sheryl said, in that situation, "give me courage", it pretty much meant "lets make love".

- Tak
With all due respect Tak, I know there are some really vague things about the Japanese language, but I've never heard this sort of translation before...

I can respect that the social mores are different in Japan than here in the USA, which may be a MAJOR indicator as to why the Japanese fandom thinks they had sex. OTOH, unlike the really varied fans in the rest of the world, the majority of the vocal Macross fandom in Japan MAY be made up of mostly teens and twenties shut-in otaku for all I know. Guys who NEVER get to roll with the opposite gender, and think that hentai sim games are reality. Not saying that's the case because I have NO data, but it doesn't seem like much of a stretch either...

Just go to see a dying girl who has fallen for you and hold her in your arms. And when that pivotal moment comes when she asks for your strength and courage; boink her.

Yeah... THAT'S not a desperate moment at all...
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Old 2008-09-09, 13:59   Link #1542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mughi View Post
Just go to see a dying girl who has fallen for you and hold her in your arms. And when that pivotal moment comes when she asks for your strength and courage; boink her.

Yeah... THAT'S not a desperate moment at all...
Eh, its certainly up to your speculations. I am not saying its definite, but I believe they did have sex.

Several things though, as I pointed out already, the language being used, the setting, pan of the camera and of course, their mood. Then later, the jacket, which Alto wasn't wearing but hanged around him, why this small detail? Moreover, Sheryl was in a yukata, which is pretty much the only layer of clothing she has. How does that not excite Alto's hormones would be beyond me...

Besides, I am sure a good session of mutual workout at that point won't kill her

- Tak
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Old 2008-09-09, 14:04   Link #1543
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As Tak already stated, its all speculation.

But concerning the pan of the camera as Alto was closing in for the "kiss". I really did thought they DID kiss.
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Old 2008-09-09, 14:10   Link #1544
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Originally Posted by bkg9990 View Post
As Tak already stated, its all speculation.

But concerning the pan of the camera as Alto was closing in for the "kiss". I really did thought they DID kiss.
The kiss is definite, the sex is another story.

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Old 2008-09-09, 14:27   Link #1545
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
...Besides, I am sure a good session of mutual workout at that point won't kill her

- Tak
Having never LIVED in Japan, I just can't speak to how important the Japanese consider the act of sexual intercourse in the context of love and relationship. I've also never had the guts to ask my Japanese friends about it, since they are all girls... But I'd need to see a cross section of Japanese female attitudes expressed before I'd believe this situation lead to sex and not just a passionate kiss.

I completely concur that the elements were there, the emotions were there and (especially if we're being rickrolled) the visuals were there. But the characters actions and histories up to this point don't necessarily lead to the conclusion that they consummated it.

It IS open to total speculation and will probably NEVER be confirmed by the staff. My point is that moments of weakness occur for everyone who is human, but moments of strength do too. In my eyes, to be consistent, it wouldn't have been respectful to the characters if they DID carry it through. ESPECIALLY in light of the adulation and idolatry heaped onto Sheryl by the most vociferous fans both in Japan and abroad. To take your "Queen" and lower her to the the level of a weak roll in the hay seems flawed.

Hikaru & Misa's implied sex in DYRL was a "We're the last people on earth and I love you" kind of sex. This situation is a "You're about to die and I don't want you to be lonely when you do" kind of sex... I'd LIKE to believe they DIDN'T do it.
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Old 2008-09-09, 14:31   Link #1546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mughi View Post
To take your "Queen" and lower her to the the level of a weak roll in the hay seems flawed.
She is but a human being. She said it herself, she thought Sheryl Nome was everything, but she now placed her trust in Alto, which she had never done before. She did not ask Alto for support, Alto offered it himself. Alto broken the barrier, and Sheryl accepted his offer. You also have to keep in mind of everything else prior to this, accumulated to form this pivotal moment.

At the end, she found reliance in Alto, and when she said "give me courage", it had a dual meaning, one of them being something akin to prove it.

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Old 2008-09-09, 14:40   Link #1547
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I really don't see what's so bad about the slightly implied sex. But, like I stated before, some people do seem to have a real problem with it.

Also, I totally agree with Tak's reasoning.
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Old 2008-09-09, 14:53   Link #1548
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Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
I really don't see what's so bad about the slightly implied sex. But, like I stated before, some people do seem to have a real problem with it.

Also, I totally agree with Tak's reasoning.
Yeah, I see now what you meant. Oh, well. I would understand perfectly if they made love. After all, they love each other.
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Old 2008-09-09, 15:04   Link #1549
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I thought only AltoxRanka shippers were upset about the sexual thing

IMO, they didn't but sexual tension was clearly present and strong : when Sheryl's tears dropped on the futon, the camera was on subjective mode. First Alto looked at the tears then Sheryl's thighs. Even if he was shattered by Sheryl's pain, he was, at the same time, aware of her body so close and so warm. Good job Kawamori, you've reminded to the audience that noble feelings can be mixed with physical desire ^^
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Old 2008-09-09, 15:08   Link #1550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Yeah, I see now what you meant.
Told ya.

On the other hand, I'm fine either way. I'd find it more romantic if they did have sex, tho.
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Old 2008-09-09, 15:41   Link #1551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mughi View Post
It IS open to total speculation and will probably NEVER be confirmed by the staff. My point is that moments of weakness occur for everyone who is human, but moments of strength do too.

At least until the fans corner Kawamori in an interview and ask "Did Alto and Sheryl have sex in episode 22 or not!??!"

Btw, should you ever get the courage to ask your Japanese friends what they think of sex, you might be surprised at their answers. Japan has long been pretty frank about sexuality.

Quote:
IMO, they didn't but sexual tension was clearly present and strong : when Sheryl's tears dropped on the futon, the camera was on subjective mode. First Alto looked at the tears then Sheryl's thighs. Even if he was shattered by Sheryl's pain, he was, at the same time, aware of her body so close and so warm. Good job Kawamori, you've reminded to the audience that noble feelings can be mixed with physical desire ^^
This reminds me of the main characters in The King and I. There is incredible sexual tension between Anna and the king, but they only touch in one scene in the entire movie! Just look at the expression on the king's face after their first dance and you can read him like a book. A friend of mine described it as "Like a lion about to lunge."

I have no problem if Sheryl and Alto did do the horizontal tango, but the uncertainty the script left me with is annoying! Until I see something more concrete (like them blushing when they see each other later on), I'll assume the clothes stayed on.
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Old 2008-09-09, 15:48   Link #1552
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From a viewer's perspective, I just can't see them having sex. It doesn't feel right to me. Sheryl had just woken up from fainting, and it seemed she'd been out for quite a while (no less than half an hour), due to the sun having set once she came to. Not to mention it doesn't seem like Alto has really committed himself to a relationship with Sheryl. He's a companion, a friend, but not much more, yet. I just don't think Alto would have the balls to do the dirty with her under those circumstances. It's too much of a commitment for him, too soon. Kissing? Yes. Sex? Not really.

Then again, when I put myself in Sheryl's shoes, I can see her fully wanting it. She's dying, and if I was that close to the man (or, in my case, woman) I love, I'd do everything in my power to move to that next step. Unless I had Vajraids (or our own HIV). Then, no matter how much I'd want it, how much he'd (she) want it, I just would not be able to bring myself to push it forward, curable with a serum or not.

So, kissing? Fuck yeah. Sexual tension? Not even a Valkyrie beam-knife-thing could cut it. Sex? I just can't accept it, no matter how hard I try, no matter how much I support SxA.
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Old 2008-09-09, 16:04   Link #1553
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<shrug> It┤s up to individual interpretation, of course. But I think they made love ( couldn┤t people rather use that, than using "had sex"? Yeah, it describes the act, but in that instance saying "made love" makes more sense. Unless you don┤t believe they love each other, of course ).

Lovemaking can be for comfort, too. And not every such scene needs to have blaring romantic music. In that particular case, it was actually a very tense scene, because of the situation Sheryl is in.

Not that I wouldn┤t have wanted a more clearly romantic scene, but seeing how Kawamori wants to keep us guessing a bit and how desperate and lonely Sheryl felt, it played out well enough.
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Old 2008-09-09, 16:10   Link #1554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Not that I wouldn┤t have wanted a more clearly romantic scene, but seeing how Kawamori wants to keep us guessing a bit and how desperate and lonely Sheryl felt, it played out well enough.
I know, and he is a total bastard for it! The endless teasing, when will it end????
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Old 2008-09-09, 16:19   Link #1555
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I know, and he is a total bastard for it! The endless teasing, when will it end????
In two weeks and two days. Unless, y'know, they don┤t resolve anything and we get a S2. God forbid the former, but give us the latter. ^^
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Old 2008-09-09, 16:26   Link #1556
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Personally, I think they made love. The sexual inuendos are there and considering the delicacy of their feelings at that fragile moment, it's probably the best choice not the blatantly show it, but simply to hint it. The emotions were raw and real, they were panning out as Alto was closing in, they were showing the peaceful trees, indicating time had passed, Alto coming out with his jacket wrapped over him...all these were delicate details added to the scene that didn't have to be there if nothing happened.

I don't think there was anything wrong with what they did because I believe they love each other. I guess it depends on whether or not you believe they love each other. Which is why I can see Ranka fans opposing the idea.

And like Luca said, there's an antidote for the virus at early stages, even if there were no robot condom machines roaming the streets at that time.
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Old 2008-09-09, 16:28   Link #1557
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
In two weeks and two days. Unless, y'know, they don┤t resolve anything and we get a S2. God forbid the former, but give us the latter. ^^
Two weeks? But the people over at CERN will have blown us all up by then!
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Old 2008-09-09, 16:28   Link #1558
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After rewatching the scene again, and rereading Mughi's and Tak's conversation about the double entendre, it does seem more likely that they bit the bullet and did it.

Bleh, I dunno what to think anymore.
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Old 2008-09-09, 16:40   Link #1559
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abynormal
Btw, should you ever get the courage to ask your Japanese friends what they think of sex, you might be surprised at their answers. Japan has long been pretty frank about sexuality.
I think that is highly dependent on the individual. Certain girls would talk about it, but not really in front of guys. Then again, it is quite ironic that out of all industrialized nations in the world, Japan has the least bit of it (sex) according to statistics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaiHikari View Post
And like Luca said, there's an antidote for the virus at early stages, even if there were no robot condom machines roaming the streets at that time.
Meh, its been too late for Alto since Episode 10.

- Tak
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Old 2008-09-09, 16:43   Link #1560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CeruleaFeng View Post
After rewatching the scene again, and rereading Mughi's and Tak's conversation about the double entendre, it does seem more likely that they bit the bullet and did it.

Bleh, I dunno what to think anymore.
Same here.

The way I solved my confusion? With the simple fact that either way the scene was still deep and touching.
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