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Old 2010-11-02, 10:28   Link #2141
Irisiel
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Why would they injure Sheryl, who turned against her own nation at the cost of her own life? She's proved her loyalty to Frontier to a fault.

Why would they turn against Alto, who still has his kabuki-fans and stayed loyal to Frontier even when his nakama left? He's also proved his loyalty to Frontier.

They would probably try to separate all of them individually, but first in three groups:

Sheryl, Alto and Klan
--------------------------
Macross Quarter
--------------------------
Ranka and Brera

Sheryl and Alto will be the heroic figures of this war, and Klan never did anything wrong, so those three would be free to go, but possibly quarantined to their homes because of exposure to a foreign atmosphere until everyone is certain they aren't carrying any super bug.

The others would be arrested and quarantined. Macross Quarter would have to justify their runaway gig, possibly by pointing out corruption within the government and the fact that even though Quarter is a Macross-class weapon, it belongs to SMS. They'll face quarantine and disciplinary actions, with Wilder and Ozma facing further charges.

Ranka and Brera however, will be in trouble. Ranka more-so than Brera. Brera would have the reprogramming and take-over defense, but still would be deep in shit, but as he wasn't as visible to the public as Ranka, he'd probably not catch the heat as much.

Ranka is probably in the deepest. Not only did she keep information and observations to herself that could have helped, but the moment giant Ranka was used by Battle Galaxy, she became the face of the enemy. The fact that many died before she stopped attacking would result in several accounts of manslaughter, consciously or not (and that's not even going into all the times beforehand when she called Vajra that wiped out civilians. Ignorance is usually only a mitigating factor in mass-murder if she's lucky, if she's unlucky, her ignorance will just reinforce her crime).

If the courts wont punish her, remember how Klan reacted at Michael's death? Think about all those Zentradi, two-three generations removed from being a warrior race, who lost loved ones. Think about all those humans, who still kill people in mob mentality, who lost loved ones.

"I didn't know," isn't a defense when there's a thousand civilian graves at your feet. The people would cry out for punishment.

Here's a hypothetical question:
How long do you think Ranka will live if she gets off for free, and starts pursuing a national hero who is already linked to an even bigger heroine?

How many suicide bombs, acts of violence or other attempts at her life will be made? How long until one is successful? (Lets be generous and say that only one million people died, and they each only knew one person who would kill for them, and a few of these are the same person, so we have a couple of thousands who wants to kill Ranka.)
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Old 2010-11-02, 10:39   Link #2142
justavisitor
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I didn't say Frontier wanna turn against Alto...I said Frontier creates a little "accident" on Ranka and Sheryl, but unfortunately Alto was in the scene XD

And what you are saying is too random...you might as well say, When Ranka and Sheryl run towards Alto, Ranka slips, hits the rock, and dies, so Alto X Sheryl can last forever, imo this has a higher chance of happening

I might want to response further, but I have a feeling that this is getting off topic...(it has become more like fan-fiction) so I will have to wait for the mod's comment....(Does he come here regularly??)...I don't wanna get off-topic again
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Old 2010-11-02, 10:56   Link #2143
Irisiel
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The problem with Alto being at the scene of the "accident" if that it would be most logical to separate all involved individuals until you've taken all their statements, to prevent any collaborative artistic license (for example, Ozma telling Ranka to say that she left at his orders, which would turn the heat towards him. If he says that he's responsible for Ranka, and Ranka says that she went of her own free will, and Alto tries to make it sound like Brera and Ai-kun are responsible, there will be investigations to determine the truth).

After that, Ranka, whether guilty or not, would be placed under protection, if not from the government, but from SMS, in order to minimize any angry mothers or fathers avenging their children.

I'm not saying that she wont get a chance in the future, but she will be at a major disadvantage because she would be so restricted in the beginning, and even if Sheryl would try to be sporting and move out from Alto's home, Sheryl cannot stop Alto from seeing her (nor would it be fair for Alto or Sheryl), and, well, while Alto and Sheryl might join together to fight for Ranka's freedom, Ranka would still be stuck inside during the investigation, while Alto and Sheryl would need to be together and plan very carefully about which strings to pull.

Alto and Sheryl would probably need to, as the heroes of the war, start a propaganda machine in Ranka's favor, and especially talk about the virtues of forgiveness.

And when all is said and done? If you kill one million people, and convert most relatives to forgiveness, there is still a few terminally ill relatives who might decide that they have nothing left to lose.

Never mind the anti-Ranka protests that would be held.

It's actually a logical sequence of events:
Frontier's civilians watch final battle. Frontier's civilians sees giant Ranka attacking them. Frontier's civilians no longer like Ranka as much as before.

"I wont lose in songs or love!" Ranka was pretty much cornered by the end of the series. By default, she's already losing in songs and love. Songs, because the people wont like her until all is forgiven and forgotten. Love, because Alto and Sheryl have already communicated a lot of love, and made a promise to communicate more after the battle.
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Old 2010-11-02, 11:23   Link #2144
Irisiel
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More like speculation.

Of course, going with the general tone of the ending, that everything is a happy wonderland from now on, consequences be damned, Ranka is still at a disadvantage.

Sheryl and Alto have still bonded while Ranka was away. They are still living together.

Sheryl became the primary songstress while Ranka was away. The fact that Ranka ran away and then was absent, even without a war, and not putting out more songs, would put her below Sheryl in terms of idol-hood.

So yeah, if Ranka faces no consequences whatsoever from running away except that she was absent for some time, she's at a disadvantage.
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Old 2010-11-02, 11:25   Link #2145
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Well you can't forget that Ranka did effectively change sides to Frontier, as replaying the final battle would also show that she started singing Your Sound and the Vajra stopped attacking Frontier and went against Galaxy, then later Ranka sings on the Minmay Stage of Macross Quarter with Sheryl on Battle Frontier. Propaganda is also huge in Macross, it's a recurring theme that comes up in all the series, plus Alto did kinda imply Giant Ranka was an imposter, and that would be on the battle tapes as well, but of course there would be a thorough investigation.

In the end it would be hard to pin anything on Ranka, though her fan base on Frontier would be decidedly mixed I suspect. I mean the only evidence they have is a giant hologram and a voice, which could have been faked, it wouldn't be hard to suggest that Ranka was captured by the enemy and then recovered by Alto Saotome. Running away though might have its own problems, but legally speaking I can't be sure that there's anything wrong with leaving Frontier with Brera. She's not military, so they can't get her for desertion.

The only tricky part would be where she started singing for Frontier before she was rescued. That's a little funky to explain. But hey, Grace didn't kill her when Ranka did that either, so... err... Well it's complicated I suppose. If it were me it bares investigation, but Alto and Sheryl would be in the clear. Ranka would have to rebuild her career somewhat, but that's not impossible, she did pass Sheryl up once, though Sheryl has only gotten better since the series started so this is indeed a difficult battle.
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Old 2010-11-02, 11:44   Link #2146
Irisiel
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Hologram. Voice. AND the ability to control Vajra. And she was a military collaborator under contract when she started to use her song as a weapon.

But there is also the matter of Ranka leaving, and I can totally see Brera trying to take the blame, Ozma trying to take the blame, and Alto trying to blame Brera and himself and a half-decent interrogator would go "hm, they're probably protecting someone, and the only one they all have a motive to protect is Ranka" and taxing them on that.

And then hot-blooded Ozma and/or Alto will inadvertently give it away and Brera will be head-desking in another interrogation room.

They could try to pin it all on Grace (main villain, but it was Ranka's decision to leave!), but I can't see how, unless all our heroes conspire together to lie in court and to all the relatives that lost loved ones. Which would be... not so heroic.
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Old 2010-11-02, 12:00   Link #2147
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That is true, but nor would it be heroic to let the angry masses lynch a 16 year old. But the Vajra control definitely looks suspicious, but we do have a convenient excuse show up later, that being the Vajra/Protoculture Queen-Thing that Grace assumes direct control over. To be honest though, I'm not sure what really happened to Ranka inside her imprisonment ball on Battle Galaxy to begin with, so maybe I am giving Ranka something of the benefit of the doubt here. Ranka certainly has a scandal on her hands regardless.
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Old 2010-11-02, 13:38   Link #2148
DeX-kun
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Well just for the sake of argument here, wasn't Ranka being controlled by an outside force? (I.e. - Grace) Unless I'm mistaken I remember a scene where Alto told Ranka to wake up and Brera's necklace (I.e. - The harmonica) was destroyed. I'm guessing they were implying that it was the harmonica that was controlling Ranka.

Although in the end, there's going to be a new president since Leon will no longer be in any position of power.
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Old 2010-11-02, 14:09   Link #2149
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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Well just for the sake of argument here, wasn't Ranka being controlled by an outside force? (I.e. - Grace) Unless I'm mistaken I remember a scene where Alto told Ranka to wake up and Brera's necklace (I.e. - The harmonica) was destroyed. I'm guessing they were implying that it was the harmonica that was controlling Ranka.

Although in the end, there's going to be a new president since Leon will no longer be in any position of power.
But the act of her leaving Frontier to get into that situation in the first place wasn't her being under any control. The Ranka episodes 19-21 had no one making those decisions for her. Grace also wasn't the one who forced Ranka to not sing at the funeral.

Even though Ranka was under control in episode 23-24, she is the one who put herself in that position and so them knowing that would probably make them even less forgiving.

@Lanciel Since when was mob mentality heroic? especially amongst people who suffered losses?

Especially because of her ability and the suffering it caused the people of Frontier, them knowing that she was even remotely responsible for the times the Vajra attacked them, added in with her actions of episodes 19-23 would make her fall under suspicion. Also remember that when Ranka passed Sheryl she had the help the help of Grace and Sheryl during that time was gravely sick, and couldn't really sing. And now Ranka abandoned Elmo who is now Sheryl's manager.

@justavisitor While one could try to make a point that they would treat Sheryl the same way, we should remember that Sheryl was dying the last episodes and her taking up Ranka's mantel was just hastening her death. Adding in the with the fact that Sheryl couldn't take any medication to help her with her pain because it would lower her powers, and also even though Grace raised her, Grace also abandoned her. Plus Sheryl really didn't know anything so there really isn't anything to incriminate her with.

Last edited by wisteria233; 2010-11-02 at 14:22.
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Old 2010-11-02, 14:39   Link #2150
Lancel
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
@Lanciel Since when was mob mentality heroic? especially amongst people who suffered losses?
Huh? When did I say mob mentality was heroic? I thought I was saying it wasn't. :/ I mean doing stuff legally is fine, but you have to follow the course of justice anyway, and just because a bunch of people want someone dead doesn't mean you should kill them just to appease them. That's more what I mean.
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Old 2010-11-02, 14:41   Link #2151
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@Irisiel
Well, since the mod hasn't shown any sign of coming here, so I will give one last shot to this "speculation/fan-fiction" thing before I move on

If you say ppl from frontier who lost their loved one will plan to suicide-bomb Ranka, then I would argue that there will be some ppl who will hate Sheryl as well...Why? Because Sheryl has spent the longest time with Grace, and she is from the "dark" side (Galaxy)

Ppl from Frontier only know that Grace is behind the whole thing in episode 24/25, when Galaxy shows up

Ppl A: So Grace is behind all this, eh?
Ppl B: And Sheryl brought Grace here...who knows if they weren't together for all these crap!! We can't trust anyone from Galaxy!!

I don't know how many ppl will think like this, but if you were to suggest the final battle killed million of ppl, let's just assume 1% of ppl will think like this, then Sheryl is having around 10000 enemies out there

Of course, Sheryl did sing to help, but is that enough to erase ppl's doubt about the connection between Sheryl and Grace/Galaxy..
Now, take a step back...Sheryl sang to help, and same as Ranka, Ranka before was taken over by Grace, and that trip in episode 21 was supposed to be a trip for peace...I believe ppl will mostly accept this explanation...don't forget that Ranka was always helping frontier before the final battle too...

Now, signing career, if going by your logic then I would say both singing careers are already over..why? Well, they are living at the Vajra planet, and every time they sing, millions of 20 meters long bugs will come to show their support (I don't think they will buy tickets...) You can micro size them I guess, but it's still pretty crazy to see millions of bugs acting as the dancers...escorting Ranka and Sheryl someplace far would not really help because from Ranka's memories we see Vajra are crazy enough to fold to show their support XD

Speculate it even further, no government will allow any individual to control mass destruction weapon..now Ranka and Sheryl have the same ability and they pose a serious threat to the federation...We all know what Vajra could do....the gov used Ranka and Sheryl at the time of war..now the peace has come, I would really worry their safety if I speculate those development using your logic

This series has reached the point that it requires the author to re-define the setting in order for the story to continue (Eg...Ranka and Sheryl can't hold a concert anymore since Vajra will just come to trash the party)..that's why I really don't have too much interest in Frontier's fan-fiction...(perhaps just assuming they will have a happy ending--just because I like happy ending )

P.S and I wouldn't say "I won't lose....." as a statement that the speaker got cornered...this statement is just a reflection that Ranka still holds great respect at Sheryl...Sheryl is Ranka's senpai in terms of singing career....Alto basically gave 2 girls a green light of having another go by saying "you are both my wings" and now Ranka is ready to have a full competition with Sheryl

And if you are willing to use Anime rules, the one who says "I won't lose" statement normally will win

This is probably my last response to this issue because I am really not interested in creating an epilogue for this series, because like I said, the story has reached the point that it requires the author to redefine the setting in order to continue
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Old 2010-11-02, 15:00   Link #2152
Irisiel
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I never said that the government should kill Ranka. I think they should either punish her because they found her guilty, or give the appearance of punishing her, in order to save her life from people going lynch mob on her because the justice system wont avenge their loved ones.

Basically, rational but grieving people will be satisfied with the punishment, reducing the size of the mob and the strength of the mob mentality, which in turn makes less rational, yet still sane, people leave and so on until only the nuts and those who were so extremely devastated that they don't care are left.

And those would probably mostly disperse, thus reducing the threat to Ranka.

Of course, I expect a couple of dozen or so to make a go at it, but those are easier to stop/prevent/survive than several millions of people.

If they lie and say that Ranka has no culpability whatsoever, they'll probably end up with what history will come to call the Frontier Revolution, because the damage is so great (would concern extremely many, including those working in the government) that it would be impossible to hush it all, and once the leak is out...

The problem is that Grace is dead, as are lots and lots of victims. People are asked to live alongside Vajra, that the Vajra weren't in the wrong. This builds frustration as people want to punish others when they feel hurt by others.

Go after Galaxy? Isn't Galaxy dead? Lets investigate once we are in a position to challenge them.

Go after Brera? But Frontier has banned implants possibly because they know about reprogramming and mind-control, so while he's a stranger, he is to be pitied and punished appropriately by the government. Plus, he isn't very high profile.

Go after Ranka? High profile. Ran away and left them. Visuals from last battle. But she's just a little girl. Or she looks it since she's 16-17 years old really. She didn't know. She inadvertently killed a lot of people. Ignorance is no excuse. She right here!

Basically, if someone accidentally killed your sister, and did so by unknowingly egging on known killers, wouldn't you want someone to at least put them through a trial? Even if they wont punish them? Not simply say "Oh, she just didn't know, back to regular schedule! Wanna buy a Ranka poster? Can you hear her new song from that blimp? Look at that billboard! Those kids are so cute cosplaying as Ranka, right?"

In fact, I wonder how many will feel ill at Ranka billboards, even if they don't blame her, simply because of seeing giant Ranka attacking them in battle. PTSD, anyone?

EDIT:

Certainly they can link Sheryl and Grace. But Sheryl was still the one bolstered by the government in the final battle, while Ranka only lost the "traitor" tag towards the end. Plus, everyone were allowed to watch/hear Sheryl die for them in the final battle at the same time as giant Ranka appeared. It's like commercials, sub-conscious association of things; because we've heard of the product we assume that it's trustworthy.

What I'm talking about is that if the creators want a happily-ever-after ending, they've written themselves into a corner because several of the protagonists have made themselves guilty of something that should have large repercussions. The fact that Ranka issues her statement just shows that she, and the creators, seems to be ignorant of this.

I'm currently trying to figure out where Ranka will go from here.
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Old 2010-11-02, 15:14   Link #2153
DeX-kun
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
But the act of her leaving Frontier to get into that situation in the first place wasn't her being under any control. The Ranka episodes 19-21 had no one making those decisions for her. Grace also wasn't the one who forced Ranka to not sing at the funeral.

Even though Ranka was under control in episode 23-24, she is the one who put herself in that position and so them knowing that would probably make them even less forgiving.
While it is certainly true that Ranka left on her own accord, it doesn't necessarily mean that she should be faulted for the deaths of all those people. You could argue that her leaving, left Frontier defenseless but I can also argue that she was potentially just as much of a danger than a savior.

Let me put it to you this way. Just for the sake of discussion, put yourself in Ranka's position where you have just found out that your powers can effect the Vajra negatively just as much as it can effect them positively, would you even want to sing anymore? That's the reason why Ranka chose not to sing at the funeral. I believe this idea is further reinforced by the scene right after where she is running into the forest. Ranka asks "why me? why do my songs effect the Vajra?" Or at least something similar.

Isn't that a pretty scary line of thought? Not knowing how your powers will work every time you sing a note.
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Old 2010-11-02, 15:31   Link #2154
Irisiel
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Easiest way to handle it? Running to Ozma/Alto/Sheryl/Luca/Klan (remember, last two are scientists) and tell them that I have no idea what my song is doing, but whatever it is doing, it's not good and me singing might be worse than if I don't.

I would seek external input, and hopefully get a few safely run tests out of it (fold safe, soundproof chamber + Ai-kun could work as testing material).

Since I, by that time, would be the idol of the nation, they cannot kill, open and dissect me without my fans doing something. Plus, since my pet (a tame Vajra, imagine how much he's worth!) would have a function in Frontier's defense, he would also be safe for a while.

But then again, I've been taught that if I don't know what I should do next, I should ask trusted/authority people. Even Leon, slime-ball that he is (and Ranka did not know that, as far as she knew, Leon was an ambitious politician), is better than running off on a mission with high probability of getting killed. I don't know how Vajra think, just that I affect them, but I know how humantradi think, and therefore have more advantages at home.
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Old 2010-11-02, 16:04   Link #2155
Lancel
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It is scary, and I do feel Ranka meant no wrong. Now how that asserts itself to the rest of Frontier... hard to say, but my thinking on where Ranka would go from here would be that she'd want to cement some sort of relation between humanity and the Vajra to prevent these kinds of misunderstandings in the future, sort of making her the official ambassador to the Vajra. Sure her power is dangerous, but most people prefer to control power rather than destroy it, and creating your own versions is inherently impractical, not to mention immoral. My thinking is Ranka would at least be able to get with LAI through Luca, and LAI would both be able to support a project like this as well as protect her from any threat.

And didn't Luca develop a Fold Wave Jammer at the beginning of episode 22? I seem to recall it had a very limited range.

As for Sheryl, she could be oppressed for being a citizen of a nation they were technically at war with, but I doubt the majority of Frontier would condone that. Really Sheryl was always there for them and over time came to make Frontier her home, and the only evidence against her is circumstantial. She just happens to be from Galaxy and happens to have her ex-manager be Grace. Bares investigation to get the full story, but there's no hard evidence she knew anything about Grace, she'd likely only have to testify. What they do see is that Sheryl was singing on Battle Frontier like Lynn Minmay and did a string of charity concerts for Frontier before that. It's a stark contrast to where Ranka was, not that I'm saying people would be going out of their way to assassinate Ranka with suicide bombings, that's a bit extreme to me, but if there were controversy it would be strongest over Ranka.

But heck, people are crazy, they could try to assassinate Alto because they were jealous of his hot, bishy looks.
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Old 2010-11-02, 18:58   Link #2156
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
Communicate with Alto one more time--and this time, all the inconveniences are out and everyone learns the importance of conveying the messages from their hearts to others
Well, I can add little to the post Wisteria made directly below yours. However...

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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
1. it's already a lot better than the misunderstanding they had (episode 22? or 21)...the setting is a lot better too...they were at war and now the peace has come...besides, I think Sheryl lived in Alto's house (or vice versa) was because of Sheryl's sickness...I think Sheryl can go for independence now that she is fully recovered (Plus, now Alto should go back and have a talk with his daddy...maybe he will move back to his daddy's house)...As for the reputation, I don't think it has anything to do with reputation but just to answer your question I don't think Ranka and Sheryl were the types that would weigh reputation more than their own goal/dream/desire...
So, you are saying for Ranka to have a chance, first Sheryl and Alto need to stop living with each other. Why exactly would Sheryl "go for independence", given that she clearly loves Alto? And if you really think Alto would move back into the house of his father ( where he'll get constantly pestered into returning full-time into Kabuki by at least Yasaburo ), then you really don't understand his character. I can fully see a reconciliation between Alto and Ranzo, but Alto would not give up his freedom from his overbearing father so easily. The only way I could see it is if Ranzo would become really terminally ill, and from the short shot we saw of him in the finale, that doesn't seem that likely.

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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
2. That's where the part we read the line "You are both my wings" differently...I always consider that communication as the main theme of this series...and that's why I think Alto meant what he said in ep 25...during the series he always had angst on lot of things and he had trouble to understand/realize what he really wanted..in the episode 25, however, he finally realized his own feeling...to him, at least in that very moment, Sheryl and Ranka were as important to him and he couldn't lose either one
Didn't we have a quote by Kawamori a while back, saying that the moment was not meant to be romantic?

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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
3. If anything I would count that as advantage for Ranka lol, Ozma is Alto's boss...not to mention that now Breza is now getting ready to give her sister a little push...no one can underestimate what Ozma+Breza can do
Oh, come on. You really think Ozma would order Alto to give Ranka some sweet lovin'? And Brera, who always was of the opinion that Alto wasn't good enough for Ranka suddenly transforms himself into a matchmaker? And even if that would happen, what would he do? Beat up Alto until Alto agrees to go out with Ranka?

---

@Irisiel: Another set of great points by you. I partly disagree on the Quarter crew getting disciplinary actions, although those would have to be at least be formally initiated, because of bureaucratic process. They would probably be handwaved, though, due to Quarter showing up with a ton of evidence why they had perfectly good reasons to "desert" the fleet. Leon sending assassins after officers in SMS is a pretty good reason by itself.

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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
And what you are saying is too random...you might as well say, When Ranka and Sheryl run towards Alto, Ranka slips, hits the rock, and dies, so Alto X Sheryl can last forever, imo this has a higher chance of happening:
Nope, actually Irisiel is creating a pretty logical chain of events. People who are accomplices to attempted genocide seldomly get off scott free. Of course Ranka has such thick character protection shields that everyone in the show wants to minimize whatever wrong she did, so she might skate on that.

But realistically speaking, there will be a metric ton of really angry people at Ranka. Which might play into that nice idea Crusader had, that the Macross Frontier movie is an in-universe production meant to whitewash Rankas tarnished reputation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irisiel View Post
Alto and Sheryl would probably need to, as the heroes of the war, start a propaganda machine in Ranka's favor, and especially talk about the virtues of forgiveness.
You might want to check out Crusaders part of the THAT Anime blog review for further ideas into this train of thought.

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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Well just for the sake of argument here, wasn't Ranka being controlled by an outside force? (I.e. - Grace) Unless I'm mistaken I remember a scene where Alto told Ranka to wake up and Brera's necklace (I.e. - The harmonica) was destroyed. I'm guessing they were implying that it was the harmonica that was controlling Ranka.

Although in the end, there's going to be a new president since Leon will no longer be in any position of power.
To be fair, that is a good point. However, Grace still needed to use some direct mind mojo on Ranka and have Brera join in to make her sing against Frontier. So it's disputable. At the very least, Ranka had some free will which Grace needed to further suppress to get what she wanted.

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@Irisiel
Well, since the mod hasn't shown any sign of coming here, so I will give one last shot to this "speculation/fan-fiction" thing before I move on

If you say ppl from frontier who lost their loved one will plan to suicide-bomb Ranka, then I would argue that there will be some ppl who will hate Sheryl as well...Why? Because Sheryl has spent the longest time with Grace, and she is from the "dark" side (Galaxy)

Ppl from Frontier only know that Grace is behind the whole thing in episode 24/25, when Galaxy shows up

Ppl A: So Grace is behind all this, eh?
Ppl B: And Sheryl brought Grace here...who knows if they weren't together for all these crap!! We can't trust anyone from Galaxy!!

I don't know how many ppl will think like this, but if you were to suggest the final battle killed million of ppl, let's just assume 1% of ppl will think like this, then Sheryl is having around 10000 enemies out there
Only that Frontier promoted the hell out of Sheryl as the one who abandoned Galaxy to save the people of Frontier. They broadcasted her performance even into the security shelters. And Sheryl gave hope to the people of Frontier for weeks before the final battle, while everyone was assuming that Ranka was a traitor. Sorry, but your comparison doesn't work at all.

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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
P.S and I wouldn't say "I won't lose....." as a statement that the speaker got cornered...this statement is just a reflection that Ranka still holds great respect at Sheryl...Sheryl is Ranka's senpai in terms of singing career....Alto basically gave 2 girls a green light of having another go by saying "you are both my wings" and now Ranka is ready to have a full competition with Sheryl
As I said, unless I remember incorrectly, there was an interview with Kawamori where he said that phrase wasn't meant to be romantic.

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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
While it is certainly true that Ranka left on her own accord, it doesn't necessarily mean that she should be faulted for the deaths of all those people. You could argue that her leaving, left Frontier defenseless but I can also argue that she was potentially just as much of a danger than a savior.

Let me put it to you this way. Just for the sake of discussion, put yourself in Ranka's position where you have just found out that your powers can effect the Vajra negatively just as much as it can effect them positively, would you even want to sing anymore? That's the reason why Ranka chose not to sing at the funeral. I believe this idea is further reinforced by the scene right after where she is running into the forest. Ranka asks "why me? why do my songs effect the Vajra?" Or at least something similar.

Isn't that a pretty scary line of thought? Not knowing how your powers will work every time you sing a note.
Isn't it also pretty scary to leave your home defenseless, which is also the home of several million people? When Ranka left, to the best of her knowledge she was the only protection Frontier had against the Vajra. Maybe the fleet could still survive one or two attacks by using the Macross cannon, but she knew that the Vajra would eventually adapt to it.
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Old 2010-11-02, 19:45   Link #2157
wisteria233
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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
While it is certainly true that Ranka left on her own accord, it doesn't necessarily mean that she should be faulted for the deaths of all those people. You could argue that her leaving, left Frontier defenseless but I can also argue that she was potentially just as much of a danger than a savior.

Let me put it to you this way. Just for the sake of discussion, put yourself in Ranka's position where you have just found out that your powers can effect the Vajra negatively just as much as it can effect them positively, would you even want to sing anymore? That's the reason why Ranka chose not to sing at the funeral. I believe this idea is further reinforced by the scene right after where she is running into the forest. Ranka asks "why me? why do my songs effect the Vajra?" Or at least something similar.

Isn't that a pretty scary line of thought? Not knowing how your powers will work every time you sing a note.
Episode 19-20 remember the fact is that if Ranka was a little more mature then the events episodes 19 and 20 wouldn't have happened. While it may be wrong to blame her for all that happened that much is true. Let's be honest here it won't take the people of Frontier that long to connect the dots. Also Ranka left because of a feeling that she was connected to the Vajra, which was irresponsible (she should have brought it up with her brother). Not only that but Ranka doesn't acknowledge it, so that's incriminating itself.

I'm a bad person to ask this question to. Thing is if I was in Ranka's shoes I would have asked questions sooner, but then again I always think in the worst case scenario (I've always been that way)so I can't speak for other people. I believe heavily in preemptive caution (I'm the type of person who'd also report a stray or bring it into the vet, so that the stray is at least healthy, in fact I have done that before). I tend to take my friends for advice as a grain of salt compared to my closest family members when making life changing decisions too. So again I'm probably the worst person to ask this question to, because I probably wouldn't have the stuff she did, if I saw Ai-kun I would wonder what he was, and I would report him because curiosity would get the better of me. Also even though I have had my share of puppy love I never let myself view the object of my affection as the center of my world, because there are other fish in the sea, and just because one doesn't like me doesn't make it the end of the world.

I'm also very family oriented so if I'm about to pursue something that will, involve certain danger I will tell my family before I go, and I don't just mean through a letter.

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Huh? When did I say mob mentality was heroic? I thought I was saying it wasn't. :/ I mean doing stuff legally is fine, but you have to follow the course of justice anyway, and just because a bunch of people want someone dead doesn't mean you should kill them just to appease them. That's more what I mean.
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That is true, but nor would it be heroic to let the angry masses lynch a 16 year old. But the Vajra control definitely looks suspicious, but we do have a convenient excuse show up later, that being the Vajra/Protoculture Queen-Thing that Grace assumes direct control over. To be honest though, I'm not sure what really happened to Ranka inside her imprisonment ball on Battle Galaxy to begin with, so maybe I am giving Ranka something of the benefit of the doubt here. Ranka certainly has a scandal on her hands regardless.
I was merely answering to this, in which case even when they try to stick up for Ranka they'll still run into a few logic failures. How can he answer to their losses, what tell them to suck it up? Heroism is all about perspective.
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Old 2010-11-03, 04:24   Link #2158
Father Hentai
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We don't know what Ranka meant when she said that she wouldn't lose in love (does this mean that she's going after Alto? Or that she'll make sure that she and her-boyfriend-who-isn't-Alto have a much better love than Sheryl/Alto?).
Huh? Isn't it clear what she means with that sentence? I thought it's clear that she also fight to win Altos heart and it is a warning to Sheryl to not let him fly away because she will be next behind her.
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Old 2010-11-03, 04:40   Link #2159
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Huh? Isn't it clear what she means with that sentence? I thought it's clear that she also fight to win Altos heart and it is a warning to Sheryl to not let him fly away because she will be next behind her.
So, how do you think Ranka will go about that?
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Old 2010-11-03, 04:44   Link #2160
Father Hentai
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So, how do you think Ranka will go about that?
She'll sing (See episode 15 the duett with Sheryl in the hospital). lol. If it works it's another question.

And no, I don't think she'll win or that Sheryl will loose, because Sheryl and Alto already share much deeper memories, but lets keep an 1% hope factor for Ranka.


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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Episode 19-20 remember the fact is that if Ranka was a little more mature then the events episodes 19 and 20 wouldn't have happened. While it may be wrong to blame her for all that happened that much is true. Let's be honest here it won't take the people of Frontier that long to connect the dots. Also Ranka left because of a feeling that she was connected to the Vajra, which was irresponsible (she should have brought it up with her brother). Not only that but Ranka doesn't acknowledge it, so that's incriminating itself.
What's wrong to go after feelings if you know, you have to go whether you like it or not? The thing you forgot here is that Ozma dislikes that his sister is being used as a weapon. Did you ever think that he would like to see a person risks his life although he vowed to protect her? Seems that you missed some episodes.





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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
I'm also very family oriented so if I'm about to pursue something that will, involve certain danger I will tell my family before I go, and I don't just mean through a letter.
If you are family oriented, would you want so have own daughter or nice (age 15-16) in front of you risking her life although she has no military experience and her only ability is a 50/50 chance to irritate the enemy? In addition it's not 100% surei t proccs

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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
I was merely answering to this, in which case even when they try to stick up for Ranka they'll still run into a few logic failures. How can he answer to their losses, what tell them to suck it up? Heroism is all about perspective.
Yes, she has a a lot of logic failures but that makes her human and not like a vulcan or an elve or a cyborg. A big thing what needs to be considered that she is a teen and maybe (I am not very firm with zentran biology) in pubert phase. A tutor once said to me: If you are working with teens in pubert phase, note that you are standing in front of a bulding loot with a lot of NO TRESPASSING! sign. And you know what? It works to understand them (more or less).
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