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Old 2008-07-16, 17:07   Link #421
cerrian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
You do know we are all speculating here, right? I said I "think" the Hydra attacked Ranka because she was singing a Vajran song. It works for me. Absolutely. Besides, it's not really completely unsubstantiated since episode 14 proved that Aimo was not from Earth. It's a gift from the Vajra.

"We want to pass it on. From us to you." -Ep 14

Here's another from episode 10.

Grace in the Shell: "You brought a Hydra, a creature from Eden, in this ship, didn't you?"
Leon: "What about it?"
GITS: "You will eventually find out how dreadful the Vajra really are."

The song isn't just a song. It has the ability to control vajra. Unless they reveal that Aimo does not have any effect on other creatures but the Vajra, the possibility of the Hydra sensing something from that vajran song is faaar from ridiculous. Especially if you look at that conversation. =/ Where is Eden, btw?
I've always interpreted that conversation as a warning about not enough room for 2 different species to coexist or something along those lines. A warning that was also echoed by whatshisname....zentradi with 1 eye that gets shot down by Alto.

As for Aimo, ep 14 was really the first time, maybe 2nd time, we were shown that it has an effect on the Vajra. Previously it was:
- Ranka screaming when she got groped (ep 2)
- Ranka singing Sheryl's song as she made her way to SMS' facilities. (ep 2)
- Ranka singing "What 'bout My Star" at the mall (ep 5)
- Ranka singing "Infinity" with Sheryl during the concert (ep 7) - actually I'm not sure if any Vajra reacted during this one.
- Ranka singing something as she and Alto were in Galia IV's atmo (ep 12)

I'd argue that it was Ranka's voice in general and not a particular song that caused a reaction in the Vajra.
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Old 2008-07-16, 19:29   Link #422
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post

Here's another from episode 10.

Grace in the Shell: "You brought a Hydra, a creature from Eden, in this ship, didn't you?"
Leon: "What about it?"
GITS: "You will eventually find out how dreadful the Vajra really are."

The song isn't just a song. It has the ability to control vajra. Unless they reveal that Aimo does not have any effect on other creatures but the Vajra, the possibility of the Hydra sensing something from that vajran song is faaar from ridiculous. Especially if you look at that conversation. =/ Where is Eden, btw?
Eden is the world where Macross PLUS took place for a better 2/3 of the series. It is where the YF-22 and YF-19 were tested and later rolled into production. Sharon Apple, and all that jazz were part of Macross Plus.

You quoted the conversation between Grace and Leon, that is good. Except we have one problem. When Grace mentioned "You will eventually find out how dreadful the Vajra really are", is she talking about the Hydra, which as a native of Eden, has nothing to do with Vajras in general. Or, could she be talking about the Vajra that will be summoned by Ranka's voice.

Maybe Grace was perhaps hinting Leon's attempt to ruin the movie-set, and possibly take out Ranka in the process. The consequences of that would surely be dreadful as Leon knows not the 'full-extent' of Vajra power.

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Old 2008-07-17, 02:02   Link #423
ani_d
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak
When Grace mentioned "You will eventually find out how dreadful the Vajra really are", is she talking about the Hydra, which as a native of Eden, has nothing to do with Vajras in general. Or, could she be talking about the Vajra that will be summoned by Ranka's voice.
I think she's more likely talking about the Hydra's special feature that has something to do with the Vajra. Somewhere along those lines.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cerrian
As for Aimo, ep 14 was really the first time, maybe 2nd time, we were shown that it has an effect on the Vajra. Previously it was:
- Ranka screaming when she got groped (ep 2)
- Ranka singing Sheryl's song as she made her way to SMS' facilities. (ep 2)
- Ranka singing "What 'bout My Star" at the mall (ep 5)
- Ranka singing "Infinity" with Sheryl during the concert (ep 7) - actually I'm not sure if any Vajra reacted during this one.
- Ranka singing something as she and Alto were in Galia IV's atmo (ep 12)

I'd argue that it was Ranka's voice in general and not a particular song that caused a reaction in the Vajra.
Did Ranka's scream (after being groped by Alto lol) affected the Vajra? I guess I have to rewatch it. It might have something to do with the crystals in her belly since they're like the same crystals that were engraved in the Vajra Queen's body. Maybe in the Hydra's case though, it was the song since I doubt those Vajra crystals inside Ranka can affect other creatures. Or not... =/ It can also be either the voice and the song that's causing these abnormal frequencies and driving the creatures crazy.

When the supposedly dead Vajra in ep 5 'somehow' heard Ranka singing a different song, it went berserk unlike in Aimo where they settled down and stopped attacking.
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Old 2008-07-17, 05:41   Link #424
encia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
I think she's more likely talking about the Hydra's special feature that has something to do with the Vajra. Somewhere along those lines.




Did Ranka's scream (after being groped by Alto lol) affected the Vajra? I guess I have to rewatch it. It might have something to do with the crystals in her belly since they're like the same crystals that were engraved in the Vajra Queen's body.
Alto's hands was placed on the left chest area (completely covering Ranka's left br**st).
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Old 2008-07-17, 07:32   Link #425
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Eden is also where Macross Galaxy launched from while Frontier launched from Earth, you really should watch Plus, especially if you want your Macross Vampire Knight :P
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Old 2008-07-17, 07:51   Link #426
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
I think she's more likely talking about the Hydra's special feature that has something to do with the Vajra. Somewhere along those lines.
I believe you should immerse yourself with some Macross history. Eden is a totally different world that has little to do with the Vajra. And as Westlo said, its an entirely different place.

It does not make you sound particularly articulate when you mix things up.

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Old 2008-07-17, 08:02   Link #427
Westlo
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Screw the history, if anything watch Plus for the superb action, amazing ost (Frontier while really good doesn't match it... yet) and mature love triangle. The history is a bonus!
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Old 2008-07-17, 08:52   Link #428
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Screw the history, if anything watch Plus for the superb action, amazing ost (Frontier while really good doesn't match it... yet) and mature love triangle. The history is a bonus!

Ah yes, "Plus" was just full of "win"...in my opinion, perhaps the best among the entire Macross Franchise.

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Old 2008-07-17, 14:35   Link #429
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I don't know, I really didn't like the so-called mature triangle. And imo, Lucy got screwed over, big time. Yeah, so I get the impression that they weren't looking forward to a long-term, but Lucy's reaction later in the series just got me, ugh.

Then again, PLUS just wasn't a very happy film.

Regardless, PLUS had the BEST, and I mean, the best dogfight action for its time. Wait, I take that back, it is still the best in terms of 1 v 1 dogfights. After watching PLUS, it is not difficult to imagine my absolute utter disappointment upon my immediate encounter with Macross 7.

Still, I'd have to say Frontier is my current favorite Macross. After all, I've been waiting for a very long time for Macross to return to its space opera roots. And so far, Frontier is doing it right.

- Tak
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Old 2008-07-17, 15:08   Link #430
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I have some issues with Plus, but I must say...

Voices >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimo
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Old 2008-07-17, 15:21   Link #431
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I agree with that, actually. But it might be a different story once I hear Maaya does it.

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Old 2008-07-17, 15:33   Link #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stray View Post
I have some issues with Plus, but I must say...

Voices >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Aimo

Right. "Voices" is legendary. It's appeal for me is that it contains such a hauntingly hypnotic quality, especially when done in a capella by Arai Akino...."Aimo" just falls short of it.

Hmm...Though I would actually like to hear Arai-san do a rendition of "Aimo"


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Old 2008-07-17, 15:35   Link #433
ickem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lone_wolf View Post
Right. "Voices" is legendary. It's appeal for me is that it contains such a hauntingly hypnotic quality, especially when done in a capella by Arai Akino...."Aimo" just falls short of it.

Hmm...Though I would actually like to hear Arai-san do a rendition of "Aimo"


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Same here. Her voice is great for these types of songs.
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Old 2008-07-17, 19:23   Link #434
Westlo
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megumi's aimo falls far short of voices, her aimo is voices lite or "diet" voices, maaya's aimo otoh is pretty stellar... could come close... need to hear the full version... and see how it holds up in 10 years time...

voices acapella on the last plus ost is just beuatiful.
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Old 2008-07-19, 20:23   Link #435
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This one goes out to the Demon Brigade...

*the odds are HEAVILY AGAINST you; yet you persist. You guys rule!*

.
Subject: Ranka Lee



I am peculiar; unless I told you "I care what you think" I don't care what you think. What I think I say (Because I can be brutal; I tone it down a
LOT)...



However a GROSS misrepresentation of my views doesn't sit well with me. I'd rather you dislike me because of something I actually said and not because of
Something you assumed because for once...I was close-lipped. * and up for four days straight...Sleep deprived rant …you got that. Sleep Deprivation; It’s a MOFO! It can actually kill
You!

>>Google power to the rescue<<*



Ranka Lee in my opinion is the most interesting character in Macross Frontier.



Why? Alto put it best…

Quote:
“You are girl that always brings surprises. You always said “You can’t” or something similar. I don’t know if you are timid or brave.”

She is not what she seems to be at first glance.



I also believe that because people are so stuck "Japanese Manga Archetypes"; without a real understanding of them, her strengths are perceived as weaknesses.

Since people are so fixated on those "weaknesses" her overall character and potential directions that her character can be taken in; are overlooked.

I also believe that people are classifying these Archetypes by one or two the most common and easily identifiable characteristics they posses. Instead of really looking at ALL of the characteristics that they posses because they cannot easily identify them (Why are you discussing it if you are not looking at how realistically the characters are portrayed?)

*This is what the Japanese users keep trying to tell people. Sometimes it doesn’t translate well. It’s even more difficult to discern when you translate it to English.*

I have seen her compared to Inoue Orihime of Bleach many times. I don't think that is an apt comparison; since imo, they ARE NOT the same Archetype.

Ranka's perceived weaknesses.

Insecurity,
]
Emotional Dependency,


Dissociative Amnesia.



Ranka is perceived as weak and called Emo because she occasionally displays self-doubt. Doubts and insecurities are human emotions and it’s quite normal
to feel them. Letting them affect you in a negative manner isn’t good.

Let’s take a look at these “Weaknesses” and the affect they have on her.





Ranka’s hidden strengths.

Dissociative Amnesia; which is perceived as weakness, actually gives her character the greatest potential. Why?

The personality you will have as an adult develops age 4-5. The circumstances in which you are reared are the determining factor; these will help
determine the type of person you will be. The Ranka that she is now is the one without the memories that would determine her personality. If she regains
her memory her personality will drastically alter. So she may be this "Tsundere" you guys keep screaming Sheryl is. Due to her condition, if her
personality did a 180; it would be believable. That’s why the prospective directions her character can be taken into aren’t as limited as Alto’s or
Sheryl’s



Wait
…while we are on the subject of her Dissociative Amnesia…



Remember this scene…Episode 13?

All of you said
“Alto’s running from his own problems. He shouldn’t tell her not to face them. That’s why they don’t suit”


Quote:
“ Then just don't think about them. You forgot them because you don’t want to remember; right?” “Yeah...getting bound by the past is just a waste of time"
Number one; those were not his real feelings. (Telling her to run) He actually thought she should be told the truth

Spoiler for Refresher::

Number two;“ Then just don't think about them"

Normally you shouldn't tell a person to forget their past if they have not reconciled with it.


Number three; Alto understood; because of the situation, Ranka is the only one who can decide when she should know the truth. However, it IS NOT a CONSCIOUS decision SHE can make.

So when Alto said:
Quote:
"You forgot them because you don’t want to remember; right?
He merely summed up the content in the flashback
before he said those words. That statement is the crux of Ranka’s condition WITHOUT the TEXTBOOK mumbo jumbo...

Another thing; NOWHERE in thisstatement
Quote:
"Yeah...getting bound by the past is just a waste of time"
the WORDRUN.
Alto isn’t running from his past he is CHAINED to it!

What he said was actually sound advice. He would be selfish telling her to REMEMBER when he knows...damn well that’s not a decision SHE can just make. To try and force her to would cause irreparable damage.

It's already been proven that he doesn't feel the truth should be withheld from her. However since he believes she should face them. (There is nothing wrong with forgetting your problems. It’s wrong to try and forget them WITHOUT facing them. )He told her she shouldn’t be BOUND to them.

In other words"Deal with it WHEN you CAN; then get OVER it."



Since the Manga-ka is a genius(this we all agree on)
Alto’s character is so realistically portrayed that even you guys don’t take him seriously. Beautiful people are stereotyped as being stupid and have a hard time being taken seriously. Effeminate males have it even worse. Alto wants to MOVE ON.

That's why I said that;"that was GOOD and BAD advice"

* I am tired of repeating ,that there is more than one way to say something in English. That’s why it’s so damn hard to learn. Not to mention it is a borrowed and broken language. If you are not from England “You do not speak it correctly”>>>>the reason I do not mess with people about their grammar. <<<<That doesn’t mean they are stupid (At least not all the time, there are some exceptions)


Random: Did anyone else find this scene kind of random?
Now that, that’s out of the way…,



Words that I believed are often misused when applied to Ranka


Strength & Emotional Dependency

STRENGTH
All of you said

"She worried about Alto and Sheryl’s relationship all time"

No she doesn’t; Nanase does
Am I the only who thinks this girl seriously needs to get a life?
Ranka didn’t mention him in this conversation…Nanase did.

“She lacks confidence”
She could have gone real Emo…She could cried about how great Sheryl-san was. She didn’t instead of crying. She calls him up to ask out so she can declare her feelings first (She also makes it clear she understands. Alto may not return her feelings) *Woah!*

"She's Emo"

:stare: She’s got one memory.
Dude she’s smiling when she says this. Do you know how many tortured characters I’ve seen with amnesia?!?!

See this scene?
Ranka is telling Alto, how envious she is of Sheryl. However I must ask…Did you REALLY understand what she said?

She said she was envious of Sheryl; instead of whining about it…Sheryl’s STRENGTHS actually made her reevaluate her own weakness and focus on her own life. It's normal to have feelings of self-doubt. Those feelings can be used as a tool if you focus on them and change


>>Whereas Orihime focuses on RUKIA’S strengths then she WHINES about HER OWN weaknesses. Then she doesn’t do shit to change it; therein lies THE DIFFERENCE.
>>> Reason I HATE her<<<


So I have to ask...Did it stop her from doing what she wanted to do? Did she leave work to follow him around?No. she did not (She did the sensible thing. Went to work and just use text to reach him.)


Ranka had already been worried about the nature of Sheryl's and Alto's relationship. She was also worried that she might not be able to perform the part correctly. Because she didn't have a real understanding of love; she was hesitant to kiss Alto. .Notice she wasn't worried about the fact that Alto came with Sheryl. In fact she doesn't mention it. As she's pondering love she sees Alto and Sheryl kissing Sheryl. Did she cry over her loss? No? What did she do?
She takes a chance on, an opportunity to kiss him too...


Ranka feelings were hurt because she was the last to find out about Alto's past. She found out that Alto's aid would not be without self-sacrifice. She understood just how BIG, his decision to help her; WAS.
Did she dwell on it? Did she cry? Did she beat herself up over it?

No. Look at her she DIDN’T CRY at all. (What’d she do?) She stopped appreciated the view and sang an f--king song...She’s smiling…mere minutes later.

Sheryl is stealing her shine in front of Alto. What does she do..?

She fights back! This girl has some guts.


Just because a person is loud and boisterous…just because a person appears
>>Non-Confrontational>>
It does not mean they are not strong.
A person who will only face that which they do not fear is in fact THE BIGGEST kind of COWARD. True bravery is having the courage and convictions to go on despite your feelings of fear, self-doubt, and emotional dependence on others.

There are MANY different kinds of strength. Ever heard of “Quiet strength”, “Strong will”? Ranka has that…Assuming mild mannered, soft spoken, people are weak…will get your ass kicked (Which is why they say…You shouldn’t f—k with quiet people or people who scare easily. The fear of you…will actually make them stronger)

The Manga-ka, summed up everything I said; in these words

Did you read that?( Did you UNDERSTAND?)

Quote:

Ranka: “Well…I am ¼ Zentraedi!”

Alto: “No wonder you are tougher than you look”
Again:
Did you read that? ( Did you UNDERSTAND?)
Quote:
“Fighting is life for us Zentraedi! It’s in our blood. We were made that way !
We can't NOT live that way!!!"

*Can you say..."MESSAGE!"?

So when she did this…

Despite feeling like this…


That is which we call “PROGRESS”
Ranka returned to Gallia the place that she was traumatized. Normally when she saw guns in battle she faint. She is not Sheryl. Someone could have blown her to bits. She still did it anyway. That’s an act of bravery.

All of you said “She’s too clingy “

Emotional Dependency
It is perceived that Ranka is "Needy and Clingy" because she desires Alto's support.
It's when the person does not want to provide you support (Alto is willing") …That’s when they call it “Clingy”
Ranka had no one else to support her. from Ozma;censure.Doubt from Michel
She does have support from Nanase.That isn't really the same; sometimes your friends can’t see the truth (Size does matter!)
She sought Alto because…He listens to her.

“she can’t do anything without Alto needs to be prodded”
So? She did it on her own. If the person doesn’t want to do something. You can prod all you want and their asses won’t move. I really don’t see anything wrong with that.


Another reason English is so hard to learn. You can take words like EMOTIONAL and DEPENDENCY. Use it in a sentence; with the same meaning.
Yet it can still be both, NEGATIVE AND POSITIVE.

"Ranka has an emotional dependency on Alto" or "Ranka is emotionally dependent on Alto"



That's when I have to ask... Have you had so little support in your life; you don't know that SUPPORT is really a GOOD thing? Even GREAT PILLARS...Need SUPPORT. Just because you desire the support of another does not mean that it's "Needy or Clingy"
Spoiler for Positive Emotional Dependency. YAY!:



An aspect of her character I think people often overlook
She has a positive outlook.
She just got her first chance at stardom taken away because Sheryl. Did she cry?


No. She says “Songs are meant to be heard mouth-to mouth” She didn’t go Emo at all.
She didn’t let Nanase… bring her down (She deserves a medal for that. The girl brings me down every time I see her)


A word that is completely forgotten and never applied to Ranka

DETERMINATION
Sheryl offered her a spot on her show to make up for ranka losing her chance at stardom. Her answer…


She wants to do it herself.


This is not your average Emo-loli-babe! She is kick ass!



What I believe is often overlooked about Ranka when it comes to Alto.

For a guy who’s had glamor and fame... Her simple, unadorned ,childlike-beauty, is attractive
When he is with her…
he’s still the same confident, arrogant, straight-forward, and quick tempered guy he always is…but he appears to be more
MASCULINE without ALTERING his personality.


This is why you guys get the LOLI VIBES when he is with her, despite them not being that far apart in age. <<<I find Ironic that you don’t care about them being the same age and instead call him a perv. When Rukia's age is mentioned you are all upset.

.
In short…
Emotional dependence is the stuff that keeps families together.
If you don't have a family member, or a partner you can depend on emotionally
>>Get rid of them<<<

(How many times must I say that?)
If you don't have a friend or family member you can depend emotionally...you are dysfunctional.

Emotional dependence on someone it is not bad. If you begin to behave in a negative manner..in any way that is harmful. that is when emotional dependence on that partner is not good. You see...It's quite normal to feel these emotions Humans are ruled by emotions. It is how you let them rule you that count. The positive or negative effects they have on you...will be reflected in your >>>BEHAVIOR<<< (How many times do I have to say that?)

If you have never felt any of these emotions at any time...You are a SOCIOPATH.


Why do I believe that Ranka is the most interesting character? (Along with everything else I just said.)



First reason comes to mind.
..

She is an alien

She is 1/4 Zentran ...what else is she mixed with?
What's that inside of her?
Why does Sheryl's earring twinkle when she sings?
How is Sheryl's earring related to Ranka?
Since I am a noob...I don't know about the traits inherent to the species.<--speculation is endless.

Is she trapped in Miclone form due to the emotional trauma?
How much Zentran blood does it take, to be able to reach about 50 feet?

Will the little green creature that follows her around... turn into some kick ass battleroid? >>I like the romance but I PREFER the action, its great.<<< Is anyone really looking at the fight maneuvers? I watch those all the time<<<

If she is impregnated by the Vajira; what will the offspring look like?

How much will she change when she gets her memory back?

The list goes on...

I don't always go for the "Teen Idol". Not when this character is FAR MORE INTERESTING.
Especially since I find these qualities in her; CUTE! I like characters that aren’t without flaw. That does not mean I like every flaw in every character. Ranka and Sheryl are both insecure. I like how Ranka deals with hers better than I do with Sheryl. Please don’t assume that I don’t like gentle, soft-spoken characters. I do; when they are really tough and not Emo about their misfortune (Everyone has problems…SUCK IT UP!)

Am I really… the only one who appreciates how realistically these characters are portrayed? (I could easily worship this guy) am I really the only one who is listening to them?

Now let’s move to Romance and I will show you how I predict Ranka will be victorious in the end. We will use Alto's behavior as guide. (Behavior: Actions. Verbal Communication, and Expressions.) *it’s all about behavior… It’s the IchiRuki way!*

Last edited by BleachOD; 2008-08-20 at 11:02.
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Old 2008-07-19, 20:29   Link #436
mike_s_6
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I love your sig, same to you I guess
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Old 2008-07-19, 20:31   Link #437
nines
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Im not in this thread alot and im out of place by saying this but I just read Bleach ODs post and Demon Brigades posts....

and holy crap lol Bleach that had to take some time for that post but wooohie you win 12/10 :P
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Old 2008-07-19, 20:32   Link #438
Westlo
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Since you haven't bothered to answer posts from the other 2 threads except for a few one liners do you actually want people to respond to this? Because I don't see the point if you're not going to reply back. Personally I'm not touching this thread until you reply to a few posts in the Alto and Sheryl thread, but that's just me.
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Old 2008-07-19, 20:35   Link #439
BleachOD
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kneeling in front of my ICHIGO SHRINE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Since you haven't bothered to answer posts from the other 2 threads except for a few one liners do you actually want people to respond to this? Because I don't see the point if you're not going to reply back. Personally I'm not touching this thread until you reply to a few posts in the Alto and Sheryl thread, but that's just me.
Yes...

However I like to show you how I formed my opinion. We have to clear up somethings..

After I post in the romance thread...I am all yours.

Dude..Er...Demon Brigade is the IchiOri camp

These guys are the Nome-ers.
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Old 2008-07-19, 20:39   Link #440
Westlo
Lets be reality
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
It's just that you took an absolute hammering in the Sheryl thread and not responding makes it look like you cut and run. I'll rather you clarify your thoughts there than start another thing completely, as for romance I think you should wait until you see 15 and 16, so while waiting for 16... respond to posts in this thread, Alto's and Sheryl's. Alto's jealous nature around Ranka needs to be explained.. if it even exists in the first place... and you really need to re access a lot of your Sheryl opinions or at least explain them better.
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