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Old 2009-01-06, 00:26   Link #1081
zalem
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The misunderstanding comes in this quote of yours:

Quote:
Actually, compare my sentence to your "a lot of R-fans giving neg-rep" accusation, which you claimed later that it was a "sarcasm"
The problem is Tak never said anything about that particular quote being sarcasm. The sarcasm comment was towards a completely different quote. So you misunderstood his original sarcasm post. Then Tak saw you mentioning the sarcasm comment so he misunderstood and assumed you meant the other quote.

On a slightly related note, quite frankly I think telling someone to get out of a thread cause they disagree with you is worse then the comment Tak made anyway. But that's just me.

Um, so about Ranka.....damn, I don't have much to say on her. Only that I'm really curious about how her character will be portrayed in the movie. I would love for them to age her up, but that's not likely to happen. But at the very least I expect better development.
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Old 2009-01-06, 01:32   Link #1082
DeX-kun
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Sorry guys but I was at work and it seems that everyone has been busy while I was gone and I was kind of chuckling at everything to be honest. Hey I didn't light any fires here, I was just simply clearing a up a statement that I disagreed with Tak and all of a sudden it became WW3 XD but hey I had nothing better to do either so here I go with my reply Tak, enjoy picking it apart


Quote:
Originally Posted by kujoe View Post
First of all, can we stop with this all-in-bold letters way of posting? It comes across as shouting to some folks, and it's just as bad as writing smilies that can be interpreted as condescending.
If my typing in bold bothers you that much then I will stop. I was typing in bold to make it easier to read, annoying people was not my intention and I do apologize if that's how it came off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Hey, post a comment, then prepare to be scrutinized. If I managed to wade through pages after pages of text in the past, then you had better learn to do the same. This is a discussion forum, accept it or leave it.
No need to get all excited lol, that's fine with me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Again, Ranka fully recognized her situation. She knew exactly why she entered battle, and she knew exactly what she was being used for. She volunteered for the role, while providing a false impression for everyone on-board the Frontier, including her friends, family and Alto.

It does not matter if she was being used as a tool, she volunteered, remember? If she didn't want to be used as a tool, then she should have never pursuit that dream in the first place! Hell, she became a tool all for the wrong reasons! In reality, she sang for one person. Is that so hard to articulate? She did not suddenly get a big change of actions out of the blue, her actions for leaving was directly related to seeing Alto on the roof, and later being objectified by Alto (something Alto himself admitted later).
Ok I see you still don't understand what I'm trying to say. Let me break it down, again my point is that her dream was to become a singer and only a singer. Nobody in Frontier knew that Ranka's singing had a power to tame the Vajra, Ranka herself did not know that her singing could tame the Vajra in the beginning. When you become a singer, you don't think about using your songs to tame an alien race, everyone thought it was silly, at least until they tested it and found out that it worked. I don't understand where you get that she knew that her dream would lead her to being used by Frontier's government as a tool to destroy the Vajra, I'm talking about her dream to be a singing star and not a tool for destroying the Vajra. This is my point.

As for Alto, yes she realized that she sang for Alto and only him. As for Ranka leaving Frontier, I don't believe that it was directly related to her leaving because it was only after she saw Ai-kun molt that she decided to take him back, so again she was not running away from Alto and the problems. Ranka just needed time to think until she found out that Ai-kun was a Vajra, that's what lead her to leave Frontier not the situation that unfolded on the roof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
No, she did it for one person in the universe, Alto. Fact is, she did not stay for her family and friends. When Alto proved deaf to her voices, she did not choose family and friends over him.

Because she was scared being around Grace.

And if she really did care, why did she refuse to sing during the funeral? At least one person she knew died, another in emergency care, but at the end, what did she do? She refused to comfort the people when they needed her the most.
Actually the way I see it, she did choose a friend over Alto. Ai-kun. She chose to take him back to his planet and stop the war at hand. Now what she did was not only to stop everything, it was to stop attracting the Vajra to Frontier as well. If I remember correctly, I believe that after she left, the Vajra never came back to attack Frontier. It was Frontier that went after the Vajra this time around. Alto wasn't proved deaf to her voice, this is your speculation. I seem to remember Alto reacting to her singing on Gailla 4(not sure about spelling) so I think Alto did understand to an extent, and it's also my speculation so neither of us are right or wrong. You also can't say that Ranka admitted to Alto being deaf to her singing because during the whole series, it was full of misunderstandings especially on Ranka's part and the roof scene where all Alto was doing, was catching Sheryl before she stumbled and fell.

Yes she did refuse. She grabbed the mic, she wanted to but she was emotionally unstable and she couldn't. It takes emotion to sing and although she is a professional, she's only human (and part Zentradi but you get the point.) Remember that it wasn't only the fact that she misunderstood the situation with Alto and Sheryl on the roof, but it was also that her brother, Ozma was missing. There is only so much someone can handle emotionally. Besides remember that her singing attracts the Vajra, if she had sang then it would have just caused more destruction. All of that stacked on top of each other does effect someone being able to sing a song of hope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
You are putting words in my mouth. I don't find her distasteful, I find her childish.

You have just provided one of the absolute dumbest attempt to reason Ranka's actions. But if you want me to spell it out for you specifically, I will do just that:

Ranka went to the Vajra planet was an attempt to excuse herself from the meddlesome affairs on Frontier. Instead of confronting the problems of reality, dealing with the responsibilities of her role, dealing with millions of people placed under the shadows of an imminent threat (which only she could save), dealing with a relationship she longed for, dealing with her relationship with Ozma, she chose an emotionally non-responsive organism as an outlet of her problems. Instead of facing the immediate, she escaped and put it all behind her. Yes, she ran the fuck away. She wanted to run away the very moment she refused to sing for the people who died during the Vajra assault. Oh yes, she cared for them very much.... uh huh.

Hello, newsflash, the fact is, she did not stop the war until the entire Frontier fleet went out to get her and after many had died for her sake. Why don't you just accept the fact that her execution was utterly flawed and irresponsible. You and I both know that there are better ways to achieve her alleged lofty ideal. Instead of going alone with Berera, she could have easily notified Ozma beforehand, whom btw, was escaping Frontier as well, and had an entire carrier with him!
Excuse my wording in that sentence, I didn't mean that you find her distasteful, it was more aimed towards your comments, I meant that the way you were describing every situation sounded distasteful. Ok you find her childish and I do agree with that to a certain extent.

As for your comments about her running away, well it is your view and I have different views but I don't find yours any dumber than mines. I don't see Ranka running away, I saw her confronting them for the simple fact that her guilt told her that she was the source of the problems. That's why she kept saying "Why me?" Her singing attracted the Vajra, that's one of the reasons she couldn't sing anymore, coupled with Alto's situation on the roof and probably being the main reason. I'm not claiming this as fact but this is how I view her decisions and situations whether you agree with them or not.

All of this also came right after she sang and attracted the Vajra to Island 3 to blow it up. As for notifying Ozma, I don't think she could have done that because first off like you said, he was escaping Frontier to take his own path along with his companions, and second Ranka had no idea what happened to Ozma consider the fact that Leon did tell Ranka that he was missing and had no way of contacting him. I would also appreciate it if you would not try to force your views on me because I have an opposite view of the situation which seems to be a very debatable one in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
But she did not, and she somehow naively believed that she could take on an entire fucking world by herself! Seriously, did she really think she'd be able to take on an entire race of enemies behind enemy lines?

If she genuinely cared for her friends instead of thinking them as her comfort-source, then maybe she would have stayed and help to salvage the damage caused by the Vajra, which she was partially responsible for. She could first start by comforting the people on Frontier during the funeral.

And I don't understand why you do not get that notion.

She did not ask Alto to come with her. She said she really wanted Alto to come with her, just as she said that she loved him. That is not asking. Never mind the fact that she said both sentences in past tense. It was the only moment where she finally mustered enough guts to tell Alto how she felt. She thought she should let Alto know this before she took off.

Then she left, precisely because she knew damn well Alto would not go with her, and as it turns out, Alto did not go with her, nor did he want to go with her. Is that so hard to understand? Once again, this decision would not have come to fruition had Alto actually not objectified her.
Now you're patronizing me and your cursing isn't helping any, I'm not arguing, I'm simply expressing my opinion and I'm doing it in a tasteful manner. There is no need for cursing in a discussion. When she went to the planet I honestly believe that she wasn't looking to fight them or "take on an entire race" like you put it. It makes no sense to stop fighting with more fighting, that's just being contradicting to exactly what she was trying to stop. Also she did genuinely care for her friends and family, the girl even left a couple of notes for them so they don't worry so much. I don't think she would involve the others in her choice to take her own path to find out about everything, her plan was to only ask Alto.

Although Ranka was partially responsible for bringing about the damage caused to Frontier, it is also the reason why she needed to take that journey in order to find out why her singing does what it does and to answer the questions that her past is hiding. There really wasn't much more that she could have done, she knew that even her singing wouldn't help for the simple fact that her singing now caused the Vajra to become even more violent. This is not something that could easily be controlled.

You're right, she didn't ask Alto to come with her but that she really wanted him to come with her but her telling Alto how she felt was a spur of the moment type of thing, you can even see her hesitate before she revealed her feelings. I do understand that Alto did not want to come with her, I don't know when I said that he did, but I know that very well and I've said this before that I don't blame him after seeing the suffering that the Vajra has caused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
ROFL. She did. She gone to Berera first before she confronted Alto again! Hell, I am also betting that going to Vajra planet was Berera's idea, Ranka was simply being a reactionary, producing a knee-jerk reaction to every situation like she usually does.

Again, you are putting words in my mouth.

- Tak
I just want to ask you a simple question here, where is it that you get this idea that Brera was the first person that Ranka went to? Give me an episode number and I'll replay it because I don't remember Ranka ever going to Brera and asking him to go with her, remember that Brera is the one always stalking Ranka and he asked her what it was she "desired." He wouldn't have asked her what her desire was if she had already told him. My intention isn't to put words in your mouth, I'll also apologize if it came out that way.



My final comments is that most people on here seem to be WAY too hard on Ranka and the decisions she makes. I see a lot of people exaggerating their ideas and too many people believe it is the case. Now I'm not saying that you shouldn't think that way because it is just the way you see things, but I have my own views and I am going to express them however I see things. Although Father_Hentai is neutral, I'm interested to hear what you think as well because you're unbiased towards both sides, well that is if you have any comments lol. Oh sorry for being late but Happy New Years to everyone and good night.
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Old 2009-01-06, 02:50   Link #1083
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
No need to get all excited lol, that's fine with me.
Good. Because I remember you whining about it a while back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Ok I see you still don't understand what I'm trying to say. Let me break it down, again my point is that her dream was to become a singer and only a singer.
She wanted to be Sheryl Nome. This was made very clear in the first few episodes. In fact, we saw her working so hard that she kept on braving new boundaries. She'd first sing in Folmo, work on advertisement agencies, passing her CDs for free, act in a movie, and eventually do a series of photo-shoots. With all that, you are actually telling me that she only wants to be a singer? Only? Because you know, she clearly enjoyed the by-products.

She also mentioned that she wanted to sing so she could prove her existence to everyone else. Unfortunately, she later narrowed that dream to just proving her existence to one person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Nobody in Frontier knew that Ranka's singing had a power to tame the Vajra, Ranka herself did not know that her singing could tame the Vajra in the beginning. When you become a singer, you don't think about using your songs to tame an alien race, everyone thought it was silly, at least until they tested it and found out that it worked. I don't understand where you get that she knew that her dream would lead her to being used by Frontier's government as a tool to destroy the Vajra, I'm talking about her dream to be a singing star and not a tool for destroying the Vajra. This is my point.
Let me remind you again, she volunteered to sing during the battle in order to help Frontier win battles. Leon talked to her about it, Grace talked to her about it, and at the end, she accepted it. At that time, nobody forced her, she happily obliged. Moreover, she became Frontier's savior and never had any self doubts about her role. Tell me where, prior to seeing the rooftop scene, did she ever seriously voice concerns or doubts about her role? Certainly, she enjoyed the fame, she enjoyed the company, and she enjoyed what she does (this was made very clear while Sheryl was being hospitalized) until she found out that of all the people, one person, Alto, could not hear her voice. Then she bolted.

Given that nobody forced her to be a tool, do you not think she should heed some of the responsibilities for her entirely voluntary actions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
As for Alto, yes she realized that she sang for Alto and only him. As for Ranka leaving Frontier, I don't believe that it was directly related to her leaving because it was only after she saw Ai-kun molt that she decided to take him back, so again she was not running away from Alto and the problems.
Berera said one thing to her that was more important than anything Alto said to her. Berera told her that her songs are her own, and that she should not sing if she did not feel like it, which proved to be a sharp contrast to Alto's attitude towards her. Berera did not view her as an object, while Alto did. At the end, Ranka was left with just Berera (who understood her) and Ai-kun (who she wanted to keep out of harm's way). Its not a wonder why Ranka bolted with the duo, because those were the only two she could cling onto, and the only two to support her emotionally. Yes, Ranka's world shattered when she witnessed the rooftop scene, and she chose Ai-Kun because there were no alternatives. Her decision to jet was one made out of the blue, and as a response to her own emotional instability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Actually the way I see it, she did choose a friend over Alto. Ai-kun. She chose to take him back to his planet and stop the war at hand. Now what she did was not only to stop everything, it was to stop attracting the Vajra to Frontier as well.
Ai-Kun is a pet. A non-responsive organism. She chose a pet over Alto. Hell, she chose a pet over her dying friend, and her adoptive brother, who was then a fugitive. Perhaps to her, choosing a non-responsive organism was a lot easier on her mental capacity than dealing with real problems.

Then again, to her, she felt she had no alternatives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
If I remember correctly, I believe that after she left, the Vajra never came back to attack Frontier.
You remembered wrong. After she left, the Vajra were still attacking, and the Frontier found itself strained of all supplies. Episode 23 was about the aftershock of Ranka's departure and the consistency of the Vajra raid, which was strangling Frontier. In fact, Alto shot several down in his modified VF-171 in episode 23. Besides, in episode 22 (Northern Cross), it was revealed that Ranka was taking her sweet ass time admiring the galaxy, and not in haste to bring Ai-Kun back. That scene alone further reinforced the notion that she chose to run away instead of facing her immediate, more human, problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
It was Frontier that went after the Vajra this time around. Alto wasn't proved deaf to her voice, this is your speculation
Please refer to episode 23. Alto was deaf to her voice not because of my speculation, but because he himself admitted to objectifying Ranka.

The Frontier went after the Vajra after Ranka bolted and after the Vajra continued their raids against the Fronter. Instead of waiting around to die, Leon chose to go for broke (although he could request reinforcements), and the rest is history.

- Tak
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Last edited by Tak; 2009-01-06 at 11:28.
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Old 2009-01-06, 07:45   Link #1084
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
Well, BetoJR, I already receive a neg-rep this afternoon lol, I am a victim of this system and I won't neg-rep any ppl...don't worry XD
Being quite frank with you, I can see why someone would want to do that. You drop by on the thread, start discussing off-topic stuff and generally doesn't even bother to read or reply to the comments made by other people... I mean, it's more consistent than just neg-repping someone because you disagree with or just doesn't like him/her/it.

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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
Perhaps you want to pm me instead? it's getting off topic, and I don't wanna answer anymore off-topic stuff in this thread
I facepalmed. Hard. Then, I LOL'ed. And then, I spilled my coffee all over my keyboard. Again. Thanks, bub.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
My final comments is that most people on here seem to be WAY too hard on Ranka and the decisions she makes. I see a lot of people exaggerating their ideas and too many people believe it is the case. Now I'm not saying that you shouldn't think that way because it is just the way you see things, but I have my own views and I am going to express them however I see things.
Then don't complain if people simply don't agree with you, if all you do is state your opinion and don't base it on facts or plot points from the show itself, okay? Opinions are all nice and well, but in a discussion, your opinions won't really matter much if you're trying to make a point. Better to have facts and exposition, than just a knee jerk "this is my opinion and that's it". Not to say that doesn't happen all the time, but it's better to be substantiated.
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Old 2009-01-06, 11:14   Link #1085
Father Hentai
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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Although Father_Hentai is neutral, I'm interested to hear what you think as well because you're unbiased towards both sides, well that is if you have any comments lol.
Well, it's good to be fixed neutral. Or at least say not to go either with any character streams I have to apologize that I can' t comment completely because I have rewatched until episode 20. Have to switch to my notebook for the last 5 episodes. I made some sidenotes and that is what it takes me too long to reply. Also other stuff like Valkyria Chronicles and World of Warcraft hindered me

I already mentioned to Tak earlier that Ranka is jugded too harsh and I am still sticking to what I said.

I am still not same opinion with most of here because I can't judge someone hard if I know that the person is only being used as a tool. This takes out all responsibilities for me no matter if the person is gifted with something special or not. I just don't have the rights to push him/her to something not desired.

I will post up more as soon as I have finished the last 5 eps. But from what I grabbed yet it'll put me more into clash with Tak
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Old 2009-01-06, 11:37   Link #1086
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Justavisitor... you think Ranka sees Sheryl as a friend? Maybe episode 2-3 and 25 Ranka does but in between that lol?

*sheryl falls down airplane steps*

"OH NO ALTO!"

If only my friends could be as concerned for me as Ranka was for Sheyrl, I would be truly blessed than.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liddo-kun View Post
Ranka - she's cuter (I like cute characters >_<), and she got my attention more on the first half of the series.
And she was my favourite up to the time she sang for the Zentran on Galia 4. At the episodes after that her character development seems to have been nerfed a lot.
That episode 16 or 17 talk with Alto in her bedroom was the death knell for her character development. I was dumbfounded by that and that pretty much ruined my opinion on her character. I mean we go from episode 14 where she's communicating with the Varja and crying as they get killed. She doesn't tell a single soul about any of this, but she starts to get some doubts... asks Alto if it's alright to do this... and she's instantly genki again as soon as he okay's it. Whoever wrote that sequence assassinated her character and layed the groundwork for the of events dokun dokun , 20 and 21.

Also in regards to the slap of Sheryl in episode 25 that was uncalled for, it would've been better if she had hugged her or something. I'm sure if Ranka fans weren't too caught up in payback for earlier on they would agree. I mean seriously Ranka fans...you think Sheryls reasons for giving up are equivalent to Rankas? "Oh noes Alto likes Sheryl, I won't sing anymore" is the same as "I gave it my all but I'm dying right now?" Also a hug would've been more in character for Ranka but hey who cares about that when you can have "payback" instead.
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Old 2009-01-06, 11:45   Link #1087
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Justavisitor... you think Ranka sees Sheryl as a friend? Maybe episode 2-3 and 25 Ranka does but in between that lol?

*sheryl falls down airplane steps*

"OH NO ALTO!"

If only my friends could be as concerned for me as Ranka was for Sheyrl, I would be truly blessed than.


What hinders both to still be friends even though they rivals in love and career? You should watch Onegai Twins...
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Old 2009-01-06, 11:47   Link #1088
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Seen it, Twins and Macross F aren't exactly shining examples of friendships tested by a triangle Expecting White Album to have potential in regards to that though.
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Old 2009-01-06, 11:48   Link #1089
Tak
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You should watch Onegai Twins...
I am not even touching that with a 30 feet pole.

- Tak
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Old 2009-01-06, 11:52   Link #1090
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Onegai twins explains the friendly competition between both girls enough to compare it.

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I am not even touching that with a 30 feet pole.

- Tak
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Old 2009-01-06, 12:19   Link #1091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Justavisitor... you think Ranka sees Sheryl as a friend? Maybe episode 2-3 and 25 Ranka does but in between that lol?

*sheryl falls down airplane steps*

"OH NO ALTO!"

If only my friends could be as concerned for me as Ranka was for Sheyrl, I would be truly blessed than.
Oh god, I was super duper ultra dimensional pissed at that scene.

While Sheryl falls ill and the rebellion ensues, she can only say and think:

"Alto-kun is in danger!"

Didn't even consider Sheryl any bit. >_>

And oh, if anyone's planning to use the "she's young and in love card", don't bother, it's like an over-used song edging on lunacy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Also in regards to the slap of Sheryl in episode 25 that was uncalled for, it would've been better if she had hugged her or something.
That scene was totally out of place. Sure, the slap sfx was there but when then the half-arsed "baka!" scream came in, it murdered the entire scene as much as when her big green ears flapped up when Michel got gutted by the bug. Three letters: WTF.
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Old 2009-01-06, 12:31   Link #1092
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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
I already mentioned to Tak earlier that Ranka is jugded too harsh and I am still sticking to what I said.
It wouldn't be too far-fetched to suggest that it may also be partially due to certain standards set by her female co-star, who, after all, has basically faced the same scenarios Ranka was placed in, but has shown to approach them differently. (That said, despite this being a Ranka thread, I also find it odd that there was very little mention of Sheryl in here considering that she may be a very relevant piece to the uh, discussions right now.)
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Old 2009-01-06, 13:26   Link #1093
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(That said, despite this being a Ranka thread, I also find it odd that there was very little mention of Sheryl in here considering that she may be a very relevant piece to the uh, discussions right now.)
Well try to say that to both parts of the char camps here. The Ranka fans got silence for a while now because they (should have) accepted the end in its way it is. But still there are some issues about her character what still is in discussion.
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Old 2009-01-06, 13:56   Link #1094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
She wanted to be Sheryl Nome. This was made very clear in the first few episodes. In fact, we saw her working so hard that she kept on braving new boundaries. She'd first sing in Folmo, work on advertisement agencies, passing her CDs for free, act in a movie, and eventually do a series of photo-shoots. With all that, you are actually telling me that she only wants to be a singer? Only? Because you know, she clearly enjoyed the by-products.

She also mentioned that she wanted to sing so she could prove her existence to everyone else. Unfortunately, she later narrowed that dream to just proving her existence to one person.

Let me remind you again, she volunteered to sing during the battle in order to help Frontier win battles. Leon talked to her about it, Grace talked to her about it, and at the end, she accepted it. At that time, nobody forced her, she happily obliged. Moreover, she became Frontier's savior and never had any self doubts about her role. Tell me where, prior to seeing the rooftop scene, did she ever seriously voice concerns or doubts about her role? Certainly, she enjoyed the fame, she enjoyed the company, and she enjoyed what she does (this was made very clear while Sheryl was being hospitalized) until she found out that of all the people, one person, Alto, could not hear her voice. Then she bolted.

Given that nobody forced her to be a tool, do you not think she should heed some of the responsibilities for her entirely voluntary actions?
Well I don't think Ranka wanted to be Sheryl literally but more or less like Sheryl and yes I believe that she only wanted to be singer because those "by-products" as you put it, come with the territory. Being a singer isn't just about singing and becoming famous, it's the journey before that made her who she is, she started from the bottom and moved up and finally got the recognition that allowed her to enjoy everything else.

Yes, seeing that she volunteered for that role to save Frontier from the Vajra, she should take responsibility for that role and I truly believe she herself felt responsible for the deaths because while her singing was saving the people of Frontier, it also helped destroy it with the help of Graces (and company) plan that brought the Vajra to Frontier in the first place. Like somebody once said, her singing is a gift and a curse.

Again, with all that you have stated, it is still not the point that I was trying to get across because initially we were talking about how you thought that her dream was to become a tool for destroying the Vajra, which I completely disagree with. This is a quote from you Tak:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
If she didn't want to be used as a tool,then she should have never pursuit that dream in the first place! Hell, she became a tool all for the wrong reasons!
This is what I disagreed with and I still do because being a singer and a tool for killing Vajra are 2 completely different things and although she did volunteer like you constantly remind me, it was only after she found out that her singing really did have the power to tame the Vajra, everything before she was just aiming to sing and make people happy and that's why she pursued her dream, to sing and do what makes her happy not to be used by the government to slay Vajra's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Berera said one thing to her that was more important than anything Alto said to her. Berera told her that her songs are her own, and that she should not sing if she did not feel like it, which proved to be a sharp contrast to Alto's attitude towards her. Berera did not view her as an object, while Alto did. At the end, Ranka was left with just Berera (who understood her) and Ai-kun (who she wanted to keep out of harm's way). Its not a wonder why Ranka bolted with the duo, because those were the only two she could cling onto, and the only two to support her emotionally. Yes, Ranka's world shattered when she witnessed the rooftop scene, and she chose Ai-Kun because there were no alternatives. Her decision to jet was one made out of the blue, and as a response to her own emotional instability.

Ai-Kun is a pet. A non-responsive organism. She chose a pet over Alto. Hell, she chose a pet over her dying friend, and her adoptive brother, who was then a fugitive. Perhaps to her, choosing a non-responsive organism was a lot easier on her mental capacity than dealing with real problems.

Then again, to her, she felt she had no alternatives.
Ok I see what you're trying to say here about her emotions but we were talking about the reasons that "directly" lead her to leave Frontier. I don't remember there being any indication of her wanting to fly away/run away from Frontier prior to watching Ai-kun molt. I disagree that her decision was made "out of the blue," because she didn't shout out right away that her decision was to take Ai-kun back to his planet once he molted, but she thought about everything until that night when Ranka called Alto at 3 in the morning to see if he would do her that favor. Those are my reasons for thinking that the roof scene is not directly related to her leaving, at least in my opinion coupled with the information from those scenes.

I wouldn't say that Vajra's are non-responsive because it was revealed in episode 25 that they do have feelings and such, just different from the human race. The real problem was Grace and her manipulating ways, it was Grace that lead the Vajra to Frontier and her that used Ranka as a tool to strengthen her plan. It's not that Ranka chose Ai-kun over her friends and family, it was more that she could rely on her other friends to take care of Nanase. As for Ozma, he was no where to be found, so there wasn't much she could do about him. Besides Ranka leaving Frontier was a decision made in order to understand the Vajra's reason for attacking and her desire to find out about her past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
You remembered wrong. After she left, the Vajra were still attacking, and the Frontier found itself strained of all supplies. Episode 23 was about the aftershock of Ranka's departure and the consistency of the Vajra raid, which was strangling Frontier. In fact, Alto shot several down in his modified VF-171 in episode 23. Besides, in episode 22 (Northern Cross), it was revealed that Ranka was taking her sweet ass time admiring the galaxy, and not in haste to bring Ai-Kun back. That scene alone further reinforced the notion that she chose to run away instead of facing her immediate, more human, problems.

Please refer to episode 23. Alto was deaf to her voice not because of my speculation, but because he himself admitted to objectifying Ranka.

The Frontier went after the Vajra after Ranka bolted and after the Vajra continued their raids against the Fronter. Instead of waiting around to die, Leon chose to go for broke (although he could request reinforcements), and the rest is history.

- Tak
Actually those Vajra's were the ones left in hiding after the bigger battle was taken care of on Island 3, remember that the Vajra had been breeding within Frontier itself. I said that the Vajra never came back to attack, not that they weren't in the Frontier itself. Those Vajra's were just the remaining ones after the battle that almost destroyed Frontier. The reason Alto was shooting them down was because they were hunting for Vajra's, not because they were coming to attack Frontier again. Remember that Luca was using a Fold-wave jammer so they don't attract more in order to test the new war-head missles and so that the information doesn't reach new Vajra's. I don't think Ranka was taking her time, because they had no idea where the planet was but Ai-kun was somehow communicating with Ranka and telling her which way to go. The "human" problems at that moment were the Vajra themselves, so going to the Vajra home planet can't be considered running away, at least from my perspective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
Then don't complain if people simply don't agree with you, if all you do is state your opinion and don't base it on facts or plot points from the show itself, okay? Opinions are all nice and well, but in a discussion, your opinions won't really matter much if you're trying to make a point. Better to have facts and exposition, than just a knee jerk "this is my opinion and that's it". Not to say that doesn't happen all the time, but it's better to be substantiated.
Now I'm not trying to be sarcastic here but honestly, did you read my whole post? Because there are some points in there where I did provide proof from the story. My final comment was made because some people disagree with me when the answer is within the plot itself, I'm not complaining because people disagree with me but because there are a lot of misunderstandings that I like to clear up. Of course it is always better to provide your opinions with a source but sometimes there points in a plot where the most you could do is speculate because none of us wrote the script or any of the story.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
Well, it's good to be fixed neutral. Or at least say not to go either with any character streams I have to apologize that I can' t comment completely because I have rewatched until episode 20. Have to switch to my notebook for the last 5 episodes. I made some sidenotes and that is what it takes me too long to reply. Also other stuff like Valkyria Chronicles and World of Warcraft hindered me

I already mentioned to Tak earlier that Ranka is jugded too harsh and I am still sticking to what I said.

I am still not same opinion with most of here because I can't judge someone hard if I know that the person is only being used as a tool. This takes out all responsibilities for me no matter if the person is gifted with something special or not. I just don't have the rights to push him/her to something not desired.

I will post up more as soon as I have finished the last 5 eps. But from what I grabbed yet it'll put me more into clash with Tak
Well as long as you provide some evidence that I might have missed as well, still I fully understand that Ranka has her flaws but nothing to the extent of going on and completely hating her guts lol, at least this is what I gather from some of the reactions and statements being made.
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Old 2009-01-06, 15:08   Link #1095
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DeX-kun why should I reply if you already written what I also mostly thought about?

But there is one thing I found out what is being interpreted wrong here. She did not volunteer to fight for Frontier moreover it was a governmental decision. After Grace has dumped Project Galactic Fairy they used to start a new experiment with Ranka. Ranka requested to be managed by Elmo again because she felt unease to be used as a tool but this has been revoked as the government took over the contract (don't ask how this is not been told). Ref.: end Episode 15 to 16

She questioned if this is correct and she did fight because the one she believed in said it's fine.

One point is that she has been taken into responsibility where the government has failed to improve their arsenal. Taking Ranka is the easiest method to cover the failure of the government and lateron mark as a traitor by Leon.

The other point is that due to Altos failure to decide she was not able to hear her own feelings and to discover that actually she was only singing for one person.

Now the question because why she did not said not earlier I can only reply that there are two options:

- If she would not do it by her own will maybe the government/Grace would have forced her somehow. Maybe confronting her with her past as in the last episodes.

- She is a teenager. Child as I say they are still not able to decide if an action is wrong or right, because they were not taught or they were not ready. That is why she was easily to be manipulated. Either passive or active.
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Old 2009-01-06, 15:44   Link #1096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Well I don't think Ranka wanted to be Sheryl literally but more or less like Sheryl
Are you going to start arguing about semantics, now? I mean, really... if she wanted to be like Sheryl, then it's a given that, should she be able to, she'd like to be her. It's a paragon of success visualization and projection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Now I'm not trying to be sarcastic here but honestly, did you read my whole post? Because there are some points in there where I did provide proof from the story. My final comment was made because some people disagree with me when the answer is within the plot itself, I'm not complaining because people disagree with me but because there are a lot of misunderstandings that I like to clear up. Of course it is always better to provide your opinions with a source but sometimes there points in a plot where the most you could do is speculate because none of us wrote the script or any of the story.
Not meaning to be sarcastic, either, but if all you're going to offer is a misunderstanding - in your own eyes - clearing that's counterbalanced word for word with countless posts that were already published here over and over and over, there's not much point, really.
And I seem to remember some posts of yours stating exactly the point that these are your opinions and we should leave them alone - and complaining about others' points and stating they were just opinions, as well.
So, really, what's the point?
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Old 2009-01-06, 16:08   Link #1097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
DeX-kun why should I reply if you already written what I also mostly thought about?

But there is one thing I found out what is being interpreted wrong here. She did not volunteer to fight for Frontier moreover it was a governmental decision. After Grace has dumped Project Galactic Fairy they used to start a new experiment with Ranka. Ranka requested to be managed by Elmo again because she felt unease to be used as a tool but this has been revoked as the government took over the contract (don't ask how this is not been told). Ref.: end Episode 15 to 16

She questioned if this is correct and she did fight because the one she believed in said it's fine.

One point is that she has been taken into responsibility where the government has failed to improve their arsenal. Taking Ranka is the easiest method to cover the failure of the government and lateron mark as a traitor by Leon.
lol well I'm sure there are things you can think of, seeing as you have notes written down, I'm going by mostly memory but I'm pretty sure that my memory is valid considering that I've done like 5 marathons of Macross Frontier XD.

As for Ranka volunteering, well you have an interesting take on this but I still consider her volunteering, I mean Leon did ask her for her consent. Ranka thought about it and decided to do it for her friends and Ozma of course, and she needed another opinion, hence Alto's conversation in her room. Yeah, Ranka felt bad that she left Elmo by himself and abandoned him, still it was her fault for agreeing to sing but then again, it's not like she knew that her contract would have been taken over by the government. The government didn't really give Ranka all the details and that's pretty much how real life is especially now a days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
The other point is that due to Altos failure to decide she was not able to hear her own feelings and to discover that actually she was only singing for one person.

Now the question because why she did not said not earlier I can only reply that there are two options:

- If she would not do it by her own will maybe the government/Grace would have forced her somehow. Maybe confronting her with her past as in the last episodes.

- She is a teenager. Child as I say they are still not able to decide if an action is wrong or right, because they were not taught or they were not ready. That is why she was easily to be manipulated. Either passive or active.
When it comes to these feelings and her relationship with Alto, the way I see it, the whole thing has been full of misunderstandings. I've said this before but this is my opinion on that matter and I'm not only talking about Ranka, Alto has also misunderstood some situations as well. From the roof scene, to the Brera scene where he is hugging Ranka to comfort her, Alto's reaction caught my attention.

I do agree though that if the situation had gotten worse, then it probably would have ended up with the government forcing Ranka to sing for Frontier because there wouldn't be any options left, it would be a decision for survival if anything.

Even if she is just a teenager I don't think that it would have anything to do with her ability to decide what's right or wrong, I mean I hope by the age of 16 most people can differentiate between right and wrong. Maybe it wasn't exactly what you meant to say but if you could elaborate a little more I would like to read your view on this subject matter. What really made Ranka easy to manipulate in my opinion was just her emotional stability at that moment, remember that she has sensitive memory that she was just beginning to get back. Grace used her mother and that small memory that she recently attained against her, and to Grace's advantage. It also didn't help that her real brother, Brera was there spamming fallacy into her mind.

Edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
Are you going to start arguing about semantics, now? I mean, really... if she wanted to be like Sheryl, then it's a given that, should she be able to, she'd like to be her. It's a paragon of success visualization and projection.
I've also said that I'm not arguing, I'm merely discussing with whoever is talking to me. I was just saying, it wasn't meant to be sarcastic or demeaning in any way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
Not meaning to be sarcastic, either, but if all you're going to offer is a misunderstanding - in your own eyes - clearing that's counterbalanced word for word with countless posts that were already published here over and over and over, there's not much point, really.
And I seem to remember some posts of yours stating exactly the point that these are your opinions and we should leave them alone - and complaining about others' points and stating they were just opinions, as well.
So, really, what's the point?
I see you're becoming very aggressive, I'm just here to talk about the subject at hand. I was simply stating that some posts I make do have some evidence to back it up. Also, I'm not taking anyone's opinions away but actually talking about it with them. They express their views and I express mine, I'm not complaining. It seems that my responses are being misconstrued. Well to clear things up, I'm not complaining man, I'm just having a discussion.

Last edited by DeX-kun; 2009-01-06 at 16:27.
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Old 2009-01-06, 16:56   Link #1098
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
But there is one thing I found out what is being interpreted wrong here. She did not volunteer to fight for Frontier moreover it was a governmental decision. After Grace has dumped Project Galactic Fairy they used to start a new experiment with Ranka. Ranka requested to be managed by Elmo again because she felt unease to be used as a tool but this has been revoked as the government took over the contract (don't ask how this is not been told). Ref.: end Episode 15 to 16
She doesn't volunteer per se, but she accepts that role because it's related to her original goal. Prior to this, her intent was to become a renowned idol, to follow her dreams. But she comes to realize, that the underlying reason for such a choice in the first place, was an emotional one. Ranka wanted to reach out to someone.

In the end, we are shown how Ranka's responsibility as a songstress of war only clashes with her intention, that her heart isn't in the right place for such a responsibility. And because of this, she isn't able to carry the burden, and fails.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Hentai
The other point is that due to Altos failure to decide she was not able to hear her own feelings and to discover that actually she was only singing for one person.

Now the question because why she did not said not earlier I can only reply that there are two options:

- If she would not do it by her own will maybe the government/Grace would have forced her somehow. Maybe confronting her with her past as in the last episodes.

- She is a teenager. Child as I say they are still not able to decide if an action is wrong or right, because they were not taught or they were not ready. That is why she was easily to be manipulated. Either passive or active.
Alto deciding on what, exactly? And why is him making a choice crucial to Ranka's own self-realization? Ranka gains this epiphany on her own, that she has been singing in order to reach out to someone. To say that her own realization is dependent on someone else's choice is a weakness of character in my opinion.

Like Dex-kun said, labeling Ranka as a mere teenager doesn't absolve her of knowing what's right or wrong. She was manipulated by Grace just as easily as Sheryl was. Their respective situation enabled Grace to make the right moves, but in the end, it's through how these characters get up from their ordeal and cope with the crap that is come after that they are judged.
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Old 2009-01-06, 16:59   Link #1099
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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
lol well I'm sure there are things you can think of, seeing as you have notes written down, I'm going by mostly memory but I'm pretty sure that my memory is valid considering that I've done like 5 marathons of Macross Frontier XD.
Well actually I also would have gone by memory but as far as I am now used to post in this forum it is better to rewatch and then post. Else you get smacked


Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
As for Ranka volunteering, well you have an interesting take on this but I still consider her volunteering, I mean Leon did ask her for her consent. Ranka thought about it and decided to do it for her friends and Ozma of course, and she needed another opinion, hence Alto's conversation in her room. Yeah, Ranka felt bad that she left Elmo by himself and abandoned him, still it was her fault for agreeing to sing but then again, it's not like she knew that her contract would have been taken over by the government. The government didn't really give Ranka all the details and that's pretty much how real life is especially now a days.
It depends now from where you start the volunteering. If you say the incidence of Gallia IV belongs to it, I would agree. But I have separated this from my thoughts as this is still something she wanted to do. There is something I note down what she has been told by Ozma: "Better to try and fail than to regret doing nothing".

If you start viewing from where she was "contracted" by Leon then it's that what I've posted.

Btw. regarding Elmo. It was Grace who made the formalities on behalf of the government. Now if Frontier is still on state of emergency, then the government will also have the legal rights to take over contracts for purpose of safety. Or at least say it was declared as such.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
When it comes to these feelings and her relationship with Alto, the way I see it, the whole thing has been full of misunderstandings. I've said this before but this is my opinion on that matter and I'm not only talking about Ranka, Alto has also misunderstood some situations as well. From the roof scene, to the Brera scene where he is hugging Ranka to comfort her, Alto's reaction caught my attention.
Yes, there were a lot of misunderstandings of both. But at the end it turned out to be a one sided love where Alto failed to tell.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Even if she is just a teenager I don't think that it would have anything to do with her ability to decide what's right or wrong, I mean I hope by the age of 16 most people can differentiate between right and wrong. Maybe it wasn't exactly what you meant to say but if you could elaborate a little more I would like to read your view on this subject matter. What really made Ranka easy to manipulate in my opinion was just her emotional stability at that moment, remember that she has sensitive memory that she was just beginning to get back. Grace used her mother and that small memory that she recently attained against her, and to Grace's advantage. It also didn't help that her real brother, Brera was there spamming fallacy into her mind.
You underestimate teens. This always depends on your social surrounding, friends, family and so on. There are some who are showing matured personality from the beginning but then there are also some who are still in transition.

---

Btw. BetoJR: I hope I do not get it wrong now but I don't get it quite why Ranka wish to be Sheryl and not to be like Sheryl. If I use to be, then this means Ranka would also adapt her bad manors. Do I get it wrong now or is this what you really want to say? Yes she wants to be like Sheryl and she tells that in the early episodes but to be exactly like Sheryl is a goal she can never reach and she mentioned that too.
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Old 2009-01-06, 17:06   Link #1100
Father Hentai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kujoe View Post
She doesn't volunteer per se, but she accepts that role because it's related to her original goal. Prior to this, her intent was to become a renowned idol, to follow her dreams. But she comes to realize, that the underlying reason for such a choice in the first place, was an emotional one. Ranka wanted to reach out to someone.

In the end, we are shown how Ranka's responsibility as a songstress of war only clashes with her intention, that her heart isn't in the right place for such a responsibility. And because of this, she isn't able to carry the burden, and fails.
Again I ask. Did she really wished to be tooled as a war toy of the government? From the appointment with Leon she felt unease but accepted because others pushed her to do what they want her to do. A responsibility what has been tossed by Macross Frontier government because they failed to improve armory. Her role as songstress is something different than to be used as war tool. That she was being toyed around comes because she is a teenager. Again I declare on this point that she is still a child where she is not ready to take full responsibilities. If you still say this then would you like your children to be used as toys for war because they are gifted with age of 16? This is what really drives me crazy because it is easily said if it's not your own child you are thinking of.
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