AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Macross

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-01-08, 20:48   Link #1141
Father Hentai
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Munich, Germany
You are tossing governmental responsibility to Ranka, Tak. Almost the same time a replacement has already is being searched and by chance they found one in Sheryl.

Also we know that negative emotions have other effects on the Vajra making them more aggressive. At this point we can also say that it is more a risk than a benefit if Ranka would still sing in her current state.
__________________
Born the same day as Satoshi Urushihara... Ill fated?
Father Hentai is offline  
Old 2009-01-08, 20:55   Link #1142
Tak
☭ автомат Калашникова ☭
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
But then many disease shares the same symptoms..like back then in the period of SARS, some ppl thought they just had a cold, or fever...the thing is, if you know you have a nasty disease, if you value your friend or families, would you risk spreading it to them by paying them a visit??
Uh, the V-Type virus is not a common cold or symptom, especially when its something that she has been carrying since childhood. Your comparison is totally off-base and wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
Grace showing that horrible face and telling that Sheryl had the v-type virus..Sheryl should confront doctor instantly (Was she in hospital anyway when she talked to Grace?? XD If it was, she took a long route to find Klan..)
Uh, she has been interned at the hospital for days and the doctors could not find anything wrong with her. She was not supposed to escape, either. Especially with Grace feeding her that medication constantly. Again, you are making an awful comparison by insisting that she needs to confront the doctor and lo' the heavens will open, angels will descend and all will be well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
Now unless Grace tells her everything about the disease, or Sheryl knows the nature of v-type virus...I would say that she made a careless mistake..and like SARS...many ppl made a careless mistake, they thought it was a fever and cold and paid their friends a deadly visit...
It shows just how much you like to withhold information from yourself. It has been repeated over and over that the V-type was something carried by Sheryl while she was a child. She was later specifically informed by Luca that it had to be cured right away in order for the effects to be reversed. Unfortunately for Sheryl, its a good bet that she has been carrying the virus for perhaps a decade! There is no cure, why do you still insist on looking for a doctor?

Moreover, it was revealed that the information was actually not openly publicized or recognized. Therefore would have been difficult for the common medical institutions to gain a hold of that information. Luca knew of it because his family is government backed, and has the capacity to handle sensitive information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
You are tossing governmental responsibility to Ranka, Tak
What government responsibility? What of it? If you mean it like that, then everyone on that ship is government property and therefore government responsibility. No, they are humans and making human decisions. Ranka made a human decision that was awful, simple as that.

Government or not, Sheryl knew her songs were capable of helping people, even if just a little bit, and therefore she will do it regardless of what the government tells her. From the moment she sang for the people in the shelter in contrast to Ranka refusing to sing, it was quite clear to me who was being more rational and logical in dealing with one's own emotional matters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
At this point we can also say that it is more a risk than a benefit if Ranka would still sing in her current state.
Revealed in 21, if she puts her mind up to it, she can do it. She simply chose not to do so after Berera persuaded her.

- Tak
__________________
Come join the fun, you know you want to!

World of Tanks/Planes: Tankers, Pilots, Sailors! JOIN US!!

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Tak is offline  
Old 2009-01-08, 21:11   Link #1143
justavisitor
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Earth
I thought doctor couldn't find anything wrong with Sheryl was because Grace switched blood sample??

Well virus could change its attribute after years, especially this is a rather unknown virus...Besides, you don't only go to doctor for a possible cure, you also go to see doctor when you know you have a deadly virus, you want to know everything about the virus, including whether it would spread to your loved one...and she was right in the hospital...

To me, Sheryl thought she was certain to die...but it made me wonder did she know, at the point right after what Grace told Sheryl about the virus, and could be 100% sure that the virus would not spread out to human...if she didn't know, then she made a mistake in paying a visit to Micheal and Klan and then got the body check..the order should be reversed(ppl can say that virus is in the body for a decade and no one else got affected at the time, but hey, virus could change, especially the one carried by the important character in MF XD)
__________________
Come and join Ranka Lee Fanclub !!! Join our club and you will see
1)Ranka pics 2)Ranka/Alto pic 3)Relatively Sane discussion about Ranka 4)amv for Ranka
To all old and new Sheryl fans:
I am a Ranka fan and I have significant experience in defending various "crimes" committed by Ranka, from her evil plan to terminate human races, to feeding inapporiate food to unknown lifeforms. If you think you find "new" charges aginst Ranka and you are interested, or you care to see how a particular Ranka fan would respond, please feel free to check my previous comment. There is a good chance that I have answered a similiar issue. And of course, my viewpoints do not necessarily represent other perspectivs from numerous Ranka fans in this planet
justavisitor is offline  
Old 2009-01-08, 21:15   Link #1144
Tak
☭ автомат Калашникова ☭
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
but hey, virus could change, especially the one carried by the important character in MF XD)
I will compliment you on your efforts in attempting to excuse a certain other character's behavior. Unfortunately, your arguments ultimately do not stick. Try again.

- Tak
__________________
Come join the fun, you know you want to!

World of Tanks/Planes: Tankers, Pilots, Sailors! JOIN US!!

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Tak is offline  
Old 2009-01-08, 21:19   Link #1145
justavisitor
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Earth
Well since you don't want to take the "ultimately" step to counter it (And thanks for being lenient)...I will simply wait for others and wait for that "utlimate" period to arrive and answer my question

I am not using the Sheryl example to excuse anything...simply I already had that question in my mind right when I saw that episode...and i guess this is a good place to raise my question
__________________
Come and join Ranka Lee Fanclub !!! Join our club and you will see
1)Ranka pics 2)Ranka/Alto pic 3)Relatively Sane discussion about Ranka 4)amv for Ranka
To all old and new Sheryl fans:
I am a Ranka fan and I have significant experience in defending various "crimes" committed by Ranka, from her evil plan to terminate human races, to feeding inapporiate food to unknown lifeforms. If you think you find "new" charges aginst Ranka and you are interested, or you care to see how a particular Ranka fan would respond, please feel free to check my previous comment. There is a good chance that I have answered a similiar issue. And of course, my viewpoints do not necessarily represent other perspectivs from numerous Ranka fans in this planet
justavisitor is offline  
Old 2009-01-08, 21:20   Link #1146
DeX-kun
Alto x Ranka :)
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York City
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Uh, the V-Type virus is not a common cold or symptom, especially when its something that she has been carrying since childhood. Your comparison is totally off-base and wrong.

Uh, she has been interned at the hospital for days and the doctors could not find anything wrong with her. She was not supposed to escape, either. Especially with Grace feeding her that medication constantly. Again, you are making an awful comparison by insisting that she needs to confront the doctor and lo' the heavens will open, angels will descend and all will be well.

Ok let me elaborate for justavisitor here, while Sheryl was in the hospital and taking those pills to keep her alive, every time they ran tests, Grace would switch her blood so the doctors wouldn't find out and I know you already know this. It's not the virus that gives her those symptoms but the medicine that Grace gives her that does give her symptoms of vomiting and fever.

I think what justavisitor is trying to say is that when Grace told Sheryl about her fatal disease, she should have stayed in the hospital and ran another check to find out if she really did have a disease, so instead of doing that Sheryl actually left the hospital instead of making sure, thus justavisitor's comparison with the discovery of SARS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Revealed in 21, if she puts her mind up to it, she can do it. She simply chose not to do so after Berera persuaded her.

- Tak
I find something interesting here because although she did attract the Vajra, that's all she did. Ranka's song was still making the Vajra violent because you could still see them swarming about while she sang, it was pretty dangerous but she did do it and possibly saved what was left of Frontier and it's residents. Ranka just sang to attract them, Luca used her as bait.

As for Ranka choosing not to sing, well we've already discussed that so you know what my take on that matter is.
DeX-kun is offline  
Old 2009-01-08, 21:27   Link #1147
justavisitor
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Earth
thanks DeX-kun...basically she should stay in the hospital, check and see if she really got the disease, find out every info of the disease, like would it change attribute and spread to others after staying in the host for xx years (hey it could happen, it's the ultimate disease in MF XD)...running around to her friend is rather negligence in my opinion
__________________
Come and join Ranka Lee Fanclub !!! Join our club and you will see
1)Ranka pics 2)Ranka/Alto pic 3)Relatively Sane discussion about Ranka 4)amv for Ranka
To all old and new Sheryl fans:
I am a Ranka fan and I have significant experience in defending various "crimes" committed by Ranka, from her evil plan to terminate human races, to feeding inapporiate food to unknown lifeforms. If you think you find "new" charges aginst Ranka and you are interested, or you care to see how a particular Ranka fan would respond, please feel free to check my previous comment. There is a good chance that I have answered a similiar issue. And of course, my viewpoints do not necessarily represent other perspectivs from numerous Ranka fans in this planet
justavisitor is offline  
Old 2009-01-08, 21:30   Link #1148
DeX-kun
Alto x Ranka :)
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York City
Quote:
Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
thanks DeX-kun...basically she should stay in the hospital, check and see if she really got the disease, find out every info of the disease, like would it change attribute and spread to others after staying in the host for xx years (hey it could happen, it's the ultimate disease in MF XD)...running around to her friend is rather negligence in my opinion
Well we shouldn't be discussing this here seeing as this is the Ranka thread XD
DeX-kun is offline  
Old 2009-01-08, 21:34   Link #1149
justavisitor
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Earth
Well, utimately my point is ppl overlooked the "mistake" by Sheryl and it becomes a double standard in judging Ranka and Sheryl...hey, if my point stands, I could put it in Sheryl thread for ppl to discuss (the title could be: things you could overlook on Sheryl) XD

P.S It's probably too much trouble for doing it.....
__________________
Come and join Ranka Lee Fanclub !!! Join our club and you will see
1)Ranka pics 2)Ranka/Alto pic 3)Relatively Sane discussion about Ranka 4)amv for Ranka
To all old and new Sheryl fans:
I am a Ranka fan and I have significant experience in defending various "crimes" committed by Ranka, from her evil plan to terminate human races, to feeding inapporiate food to unknown lifeforms. If you think you find "new" charges aginst Ranka and you are interested, or you care to see how a particular Ranka fan would respond, please feel free to check my previous comment. There is a good chance that I have answered a similiar issue. And of course, my viewpoints do not necessarily represent other perspectivs from numerous Ranka fans in this planet
justavisitor is offline  
Old 2009-01-08, 21:40   Link #1150
Tak
☭ автомат Калашникова ☭
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
Well, utimately my point is ppl overlooked the "mistake" by Sheryl and it becomes a double standard in judging Ranka and Sheryl...
And if your point sticks, you are ultimately comparing an example where millions of people are affected (while many died) against an example where only oneself is affected (while no one died). Right.

While Sheryl does make mistakes, she at least try to cope with it without dragging anyone else into her problem (unless they offered to help, that is another story). Ranka's actions nearly dragged an entire colony into Vajra hell. Again, there is no double standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Ok let me elaborate for justavisitor here, while Sheryl was in the hospital and taking those pills to keep her alive, every time they ran tests, Grace would switch her blood so the doctors wouldn't find out and I know you already know this. It's not the virus that gives her those symptoms but the medicine that Grace gives her that does give her symptoms of vomiting and fever.
Wrong, the medications are actually ones to suppress the virus and gives her a temporarily relief. Unfortunately, it will also produce side effects after one stopped taking those medications. This, as you know, involves vomiting and fever. If you noticed closely, it was only after she stopped taking those medications did she start to feel seriously sick.

Regardless, the medication does not change anything, the V-Virus will still kill Sheryl. Once it expanded in the brain, its a death sentence for her. There is no cure, the time for reversal long expired.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
I find something interesting here because although she did attract the Vajra, that's all she did. Ranka's song was still making the Vajra violent because you could still see them swarming about while she sang, it was pretty dangerous but she did do it and possibly saved what was left of Frontier and it's residents. Ranka just sang to attract them, Luca used her as bait.
Every time she sings, she attracts the Vajra. That is already a given. Although last time she sang, the Vajra weren't attracted at all and instead went rampage all over the place. At least when she put her mind to it the second time, the Vajra revolved around her. There is a huge difference between this case and the previous one, and thus creating a window of opportunity to annihilate them at once.

- Tak
__________________
Come join the fun, you know you want to!

World of Tanks/Planes: Tankers, Pilots, Sailors! JOIN US!!

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Tak is offline  
Old 2009-01-09, 02:38   Link #1151
Father Hentai
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Munich, Germany
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post

What government responsibility? What of it? If you mean it like that, then everyone on that ship is government property and therefore government responsibility. No, they are humans and making human decisions. Ranka made a human decision that was awful, simple as that.

Government or not, Sheryl knew her songs were capable of helping people, even if just a little bit, and therefore she will do it regardless of what the government tells her. From the moment she sang for the people in the shelter in contrast to Ranka refusing to sing, it was quite clear to me who was being more rational and logical in dealing with one's own emotional matters.


Revealed in 21, if she puts her mind up to it, she can do it. She simply chose not to do so after Berera persuaded her.

- Tak
By government means NUNS, President Glass, Leon Mishima and all the others who are actually in charge for the safety Macross. Yes even SMS. Later the series also Luca mentioned something where he took responsibility for the casualties as he said that he wished the new MDE warheads were developed earlier by LAI.

And regarding Sheryl at this point she already knew that she will die and she reminded of what Alto said about hearing her and rankas song. This was after Ranka refused to sing first and after she tried to sing which made the Vajra aggressive. If you mean that this is Ranks then yeah then she did kill some people.

With your last two sentences you are now shocking me a bit because I understand it now that no matter what happens you are forcing her to sing. This is a very dangerous path you are going now because thinking like that puts you into the same villain role as Grace. edit: not from her manipulative side but showing the same cruelty and ruthlessness.


Ah reminds me of something. I hope everybody is aware that every time a bug is shot down she feels that due to the bacteria in her belly.
__________________
Born the same day as Satoshi Urushihara... Ill fated?

Last edited by Father Hentai; 2009-01-09 at 04:09.
Father Hentai is offline  
Old 2009-01-09, 04:41   Link #1152
magnuskn
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
I thought doctor couldn't find anything wrong with Sheryl was because Grace switched blood sample??

Well virus could change its attribute after years, especially this is a rather unknown virus...Besides, you don't only go to doctor for a possible cure, you also go to see doctor when you know you have a deadly virus, you want to know everything about the virus, including whether it would spread to your loved one...and she was right in the hospital...

To me, Sheryl thought she was certain to die...but it made me wonder did she know, at the point right after what Grace told Sheryl about the virus, and could be 100% sure that the virus would not spread out to human...if she didn't know, then she made a mistake in paying a visit to Micheal and Klan and then got the body check..the order should be reversed(ppl can say that virus is in the body for a decade and no one else got affected at the time, but hey, virus could change, especially the one carried by the important character in MF XD)
Donīt you realize what kind of BS you are spouting?

a.) Sheryl *was* in the hospital. Nothing of her disease was found there, therefore she had to assume that the doctors would not be able to detect it.
b.) She had this disease since childhood... if sheīd be contagious, it would have been quite noticeable in the last ten years.
c.) And your "argument" that the virus could suddenly, spontaneously mutate is so ridiculous that it hurts. If you persist in this, I can just as well ask why Ranka didnīt develop laserbeams from her eyes to shoot the Vajra out of the sky in eps 20/21.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
With your last two sentences you are now shocking me a bit because I understand it now that no matter what happens you are forcing her to sing. This is a very dangerous path you are going now because thinking like that puts you into the same villain role as Grace. edit: not from her manipulative side but showing the same cruelty and ruthlessness.
What "cruelty" is there in singing to save millions of your own people? Ranka wouldnīt have died due to that, she already *did* sing for Frontier in the past, and if she had any kind of backbone instead of a jellyfish for her spine, she should have continued to do so. Itīs not a matter of "forcing" her, itīs a matter of her recognizing on her own that she has responsibilities. Sheryl did that in an instant, Ranka ran off.

And donīt tell me that Sheryl was under any less stress than Ranka. The circumstances may have been different, but knowing that youīll die soon with no cure ( at the age of 17, no less ) and that you are being asked to even shorten this little lifespan is something which we, who are save from stuff like happening, cannot even fathom. A heartbreak from a botched romance shouldnīt even be grounds for comparison, to be honest.
__________________
magnuskn is offline  
Old 2009-01-09, 04:51   Link #1153
BetoJR
... suki ...
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 36
Father Hentai, your last statement is just not true. Ranka didn't feel it when every bug was shot down. If she did, she'd have to have realized something about it much sooner than she did.

And could some of you please stop derailing the thread with half-assed attempts at degrading Sheryl's character - over a "mistake" that is easily explained by simply watching the series more carefully - as this is the Ranka thread? Move it to the right place, y'all...
__________________
It's always a great time to immerse yourself in Deculture love!
All hail the Empress!!!

BetoJR is offline  
Old 2009-01-09, 06:31   Link #1154
Father Hentai
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Munich, Germany
Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
Father Hentai, your last statement is just not true. Ranka didn't feel it when every bug was shot down. If she did, she'd have to have realized something about it much sooner than she did.

And could some of you please stop derailing the thread with half-assed attempts at degrading Sheryl's character - over a "mistake" that is easily explained by simply watching the series more carefully - as this is the Ranka thread? Move it to the right place, y'all...
Ok. I make the correction if this fits more into your eye: every bug who heard her song. Sounds better? :P

As for Sheryl. It'll be quite complicated to exclude her at the moment because everybody here is comparing Rankas action with Sheryls action. At least we should be able to have here in the discussions to make a proper interpretation.
__________________
Born the same day as Satoshi Urushihara... Ill fated?
Father Hentai is offline  
Old 2009-01-09, 08:47   Link #1155
BetoJR
... suki ...
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 36
Talking

Hmmm... no. Ranka only started to feel the sting in her belly over episode 18 (?), when A LOT of bugs were obliterated at once by the fleets' canons, as they were starting the long fold jump. I may be remembering it wrongly, but that's what I think. Any other impressions?

Also, no, it was not everybody that was comparing Ranka's and Sheryl's actions, it was only justavisitor, who even complained of double-standards, when he's clearly guilty of the same - and people tend to want to dispel false impressions towards their favorite characters quite strongly, around these parts. Honestly, we should be able to discuss Ranka's character without resorting to comparison between her and Sheryl - even more with poor examples - shouldn't we?

Furthermore, discussions about a character - as the initial comparison between the two songstresses was quickly degrading to - should be kept inside said character's discussion thread, if there's one. That way more people who are interested in that particular character - and not necessarily in the other one - could participate. Don't you think?
__________________
It's always a great time to immerse yourself in Deculture love!
All hail the Empress!!!

BetoJR is offline  
Old 2009-01-09, 09:36   Link #1156
Father Hentai
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Munich, Germany
It started back in episode 14... 18 is too late.
__________________
Born the same day as Satoshi Urushihara... Ill fated?
Father Hentai is offline  
Old 2009-01-09, 09:50   Link #1157
BetoJR
... suki ...
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 36
I need to re-watch that portion of the series, then. If it started out way back in episode 14, then it's even worse for my view of Ranka's character...
__________________
It's always a great time to immerse yourself in Deculture love!
All hail the Empress!!!

BetoJR is offline  
Old 2009-01-09, 10:02   Link #1158
Father Hentai
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Munich, Germany
If not in 14 then in 13 but this I also have to relook as I am not sure if they Vajra started to communicate with her here already... But 18 is definenately too late.
__________________
Born the same day as Satoshi Urushihara... Ill fated?
Father Hentai is offline  
Old 2009-01-09, 10:36   Link #1159
BetoJR
... suki ...
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 36
I singled out episode 18 because that's when the fleet went with the incipient long distance fold jump and they had to clear the way, somehow... and that was accomplished by annihilating a good amount of Vajra - and I distinctly remember Ranka's discomfort then, aboard the Koenig Monster.

I really don't remember any hint of it previously... but, I may be misremembering.
__________________
It's always a great time to immerse yourself in Deculture love!
All hail the Empress!!!

BetoJR is offline  
Old 2009-01-09, 10:39   Link #1160
justavisitor
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Earth
this is refering to magnuskn's post:

How can Sheryl assume doctor could not detect the disease....Grace just told Sheryl she has it...I probably need to rewatch and see if Grace told her the blood sample was switched...anyway, the thing is, when an evil guy tells you that you are doomed, won't you just go and check it again when you are right in the hospital??

Well I see ppl are going with different topic now, I can move on XD
__________________
Come and join Ranka Lee Fanclub !!! Join our club and you will see
1)Ranka pics 2)Ranka/Alto pic 3)Relatively Sane discussion about Ranka 4)amv for Ranka
To all old and new Sheryl fans:
I am a Ranka fan and I have significant experience in defending various "crimes" committed by Ranka, from her evil plan to terminate human races, to feeding inapporiate food to unknown lifeforms. If you think you find "new" charges aginst Ranka and you are interested, or you care to see how a particular Ranka fan would respond, please feel free to check my previous comment. There is a good chance that I have answered a similiar issue. And of course, my viewpoints do not necessarily represent other perspectivs from numerous Ranka fans in this planet
justavisitor is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 14:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
We use Silk.