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Old 2009-08-12, 03:21   Link #1841
magnuskn
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Originally Posted by Snowblind View Post
'Scuse me... Before everyone jumps on the Ranka bashing wagon again... Where did her actions bring pain and death any more than many other characters in the series? O.o List please.
Spoiler for HERE:
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Old 2009-08-12, 03:47   Link #1842
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
Hmm...I thought Ranka would be too young to have "a person who acts like your sibling who is not related to you and you can totally bang" at that age...well I haven't seen a lot of other animes but I think at that age Ranka would be closer to her brother...and Ozma doesn't know anything about Ranka's past

Besides, we need love triangle at macross..it's a tradition
Childhood friend from that age is like one of the most cliche things in anime romance shows.... I wouldn't be surprised if this is one of the differences between the movies and tv series, turning Brera into a childhood friend.
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Old 2009-08-12, 04:26   Link #1843
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Brera acts more of a love interest towards Ranka than Alto ever did. LOL

*Sigh* I finally got that off my chest.
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Old 2009-08-12, 07:43   Link #1844
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Yeah, that is one of the things that bugs me about her, as well. She is a very mild case of a Karma Houdini, although she doesnīt notice that her actions are so self-centered. But it bugs the hell out of me that she never got called on that, besides once very early in the series, by Michael.

It is that lack of introspection which ultimately makes her into a flawed character. Maybe it would be easier to give her a pass if the two other mains wouldnīt have been visibly able to recognize the flaws in themselves. But seeing how Sheryl and Alto did grapple with their flaws and superated them, it is a bit galling that Ranka overcoming her timidity is the whole extent of character development we got for her. At least one moment of her admitting to herself that her actions brought a lot of pain ( and death ) to others would have done a world of good.
This is getting good

Maybe you're right. I am now forming a conspiracy theory that intuits that there is some bias towards Sheryl by the writers and a desire by the same party to make Ranka look bad! Why couldn't we get some good character development for our favorite?? Now I'm starting to dislike Sheryl! jk

I'm sorry but what flaws did Alto and Sheryl identify in themselves? You could very well be correct, but I didn't really see much growth in Alto. He does realize his dream to fly I guess. And Sheryl only showed some humility because she got sick and was unable to perform.

I think people are a little hard on Ranka. I'm not into fan-fic, but if we re-wrote the story reversing Ranka's Sheryl's roles, for the sake of entertainment, the result would be the same. However, if Sheryl is as responsible and developed as people claim then maybe she would have told the authorities about Ai-kun, they would have exterminated it and that'd be the end of that. No half-baked plan to charge to the Vajra homeworld, and hence no communication with them. Grace wins; humanity becomes the Borg and now we're in Star Trek. No one wants that.

I know I'm simplifying quite a bit, but I think Ranka's character played her role the only way the story would allow.
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Old 2009-08-12, 07:53   Link #1845
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@Kylegoblue: I don't disagree with you.

But the fact is, every single time she's been rewarded for her "go[ing] off half-cocked with a crazy plan". In fact many of the time, she really ends up needing to be rescued when she's NOT committing some ridiculous plan that has no logical basis. The only time she did get into big doodoo over doing something retarded was the finale >_> and even then being caught wasn't exactly something "bad" seeing as it lead way to all her memories, gave her vajira STD moving powers, Alto came as a knight on a white VF, and she got to sing to the whole universe, while everyone patted her head and go "Who's the good girl? You are."

Teenagers are meant to do retarded things. Anime/cartoons may or may not make them exceedingly lucky about it, but at the same time events are meant to be followed by consequences, even if it's some halfassed "I scold you in a way that makes you not fear me and do it again".

Ranka is met with...absolutely no consequences. Ever.
Fair enough, she wasn't severly reprimanded but I don't think you'd struggle to find real life examples of this same behavior response. Sometimes you just go with your gut even though there's no logical reason for what you want to do. I'd love to quit my job and forget that I have a mortgage and other bills to pay. If I did that and ended up winning the lottery it'd be foolish and my parents and friends would scold me but in the end they'd be happy because I'd share of course

That's a silly analogy but I'm just trying to say that it's not unrealistic for bad behavior to go unpunished. If you're familiar with American politics, sports or celebrity you'll know that "getting caught" is often rewarded I agree that in general people should suffer the consequences of their actions but sometimes it doesn't happen. Well it always happens in afterschool specials.
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Old 2009-08-12, 07:57   Link #1846
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Simply put, Ranka acts like a (covert) stereotypical Yank.

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Old 2009-08-12, 08:48   Link #1847
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Originally Posted by Kylegoblue View Post
I think people are a little hard on Ranka. I'm not into fan-fic, but if we re-wrote the story reversing Ranka's Sheryl's roles, for the sake of entertainment, the result would be the same. However, if Sheryl is as responsible and developed as people claim then maybe she would have told the authorities about Ai-kun, they would have exterminated it and that'd be the end of that. No half-baked plan to charge to the Vajra homeworld, and hence no communication with them. Grace wins; humanity becomes the Borg and now we're in Star Trek. No one wants that.
Why don't we go apply this reasoning to every hated anime character in history, now no characters in anime will ever be hated.
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Old 2009-08-12, 08:55   Link #1848
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Originally Posted by Kylegoblue View Post
I'm sorry but what flaws did Alto and Sheryl identify in themselves? You could very well be correct, but I didn't really see much growth in Alto. He does realize his dream to fly I guess. And Sheryl only showed some humility because she got sick and was unable to perform.
To make it short, they overcome:

Sheryl: Overconfidence, self-centeredness, isolation.

Alto: Lack of direction, isolation, rudeness, aloofness.

And to say that Sheryl only showed her humility because she got sick is like saying that Ranka only overcame her shyness because she got famous. Of course people change due to things happening to them, thatīs why we have a story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylegoblue View Post
I think people are a little hard on Ranka. I'm not into fan-fic, but if we re-wrote the story reversing Ranka's Sheryl's roles, for the sake of entertainment, the result would be the same. However, if Sheryl is as responsible and developed as people claim then maybe she would have told the authorities about Ai-kun, they would have exterminated it and that'd be the end of that. No half-baked plan to charge to the Vajra homeworld, and hence no communication with them. Grace wins; humanity becomes the Borg and now we're in Star Trek. No one wants that.
They would probably have examined Ai-kun, because there would have been interest to see what species he was. Meaning probably Frontier would not have seen such destruction, because theyīd known about how Vajra larvaes evolve.

Sheryl wouldnīt have destroyed half of Frontier with a heartbroken song, either. She is a professional, after all.

Nobody would have gone to the Vajra homeworld, therefore Grace wouldnīt even have found it. As for the rest, it is difficult to say how it would have ended. Probably with either exterminated Vajra or an exterminated Frontier.

Not to mention that it is impossible to predict how exactly things would have panned out. How would Sheryl behave in such a story? How would Ranka behave? Do they keep their personalities? How exactly does a shy superstar Ranka work? Canīt see her wearing those revealing outfits Sheryl favours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylegoblue View Post
I know I'm simplifying quite a bit, but I think Ranka's character played her role the only way the story would allow.
I fundamentally reject this notion of only seeing characters as plot devices which move the plot along. If this would be the prevalent notion of looking at a character, we could just stop discussion right now, wave our hands dismissively and say "Meh, doesnīt matter, sheīs just there to move the plot along".
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Old 2009-08-12, 09:25   Link #1849
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A little bit of comment (not intend to start any war in here)

I doubt Sheryl the professional songstress knows that emotionl can make the song go that way out of hand..if she does, then she will tell Ranka the problem when the song doesn't work...it's like no one knows the problem..Luca even says maybe they need a speaker to transmit the song

It's easy to sing, but it's hard to get the emotion synched with the song..Sheryl, the more professional songstress, doesn't know emotion is the problem to cause the bugs go wild either (off topic, I think Miinmay's emotion is kind of similar to Ranka too when she sings the "Do you remember love"..but it's fortunate that 1)that song is also a sad song 2)The enemy is not as sensitive as Vajra)

just my opinion
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Old 2009-08-12, 09:36   Link #1850
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
A little bit of comment (not intend to start any war in here)

I doubt Sheryl the professional songstress knows that emotionl can make the song go that way out of hand..if she does, then she will tell Ranka the problem when the song doesn't work...it's like no one knows the problem..Luca even says maybe they need a speaker to transmit the song

It's easy to sing, but it's hard to get the emotion synched with the song..Sheryl, the more professional songstress, doesn't know emotion is the problem to cause the bugs go wild either (off topic, I think Miinmay's emotion is kind of similar to Ranka too when she sings the "Do you remember love"..but it's fortunate that 1)that song is also a sad song 2)The enemy is not as sensitive as Vajra)

just my opinion
Not the point of the discussion, but on its face pretty accurate.
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Old 2009-08-12, 09:56   Link #1851
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Simply put, Ranka acts like a (covert) stereotypical Yank.

Planning?! We need no planning! We just DOOOOO EEEEET!!

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Hmm maybe that's why I like her
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Old 2009-08-12, 10:08   Link #1852
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
To make it short, they overcome:

Sheryl: Overconfidence, self-centeredness, isolation.

Alto: Lack of direction, isolation, rudeness, aloofness.

And to say that Sheryl only showed her humility because she got sick is like saying that Ranka only overcame her shyness because she got famous. Of course people change due to things happening to them, thatīs why we have a story.



They would probably have examined Ai-kun, because there would have been interest to see what species he was. Meaning probably Frontier would not have seen such destruction, because theyīd known about how Vajra larvaes evolve.

Sheryl wouldnīt have destroyed half of Frontier with a heartbroken song, either. She is a professional, after all.

Nobody would have gone to the Vajra homeworld, therefore Grace wouldnīt even have found it. As for the rest, it is difficult to say how it would have ended. Probably with either exterminated Vajra or an exterminated Frontier.

Not to mention that it is impossible to predict how exactly things would have panned out. How would Sheryl behave in such a story? How would Ranka behave? Do they keep their personalities? How exactly does a shy superstar Ranka work? Canīt see her wearing those revealing outfits Sheryl favours.



I fundamentally reject this notion of only seeing characters as plot devices which move the plot along. If this would be the prevalent notion of looking at a character, we could just stop discussion right now, wave our hands dismissively and say "Meh, doesnīt matter, sheīs just there to move the plot along".
I freely admit in my post that I was merely coming up with a creative, albeit simplified, alternative. I wasn't really attempting to predict how things would "reallY' playout in a fictional world. They play out in the way intended by their creators. We're just left to interpret their story. The only opinion I was trying to express was that I think she's a good character that contributed significantly to the story, and not as bad as some try to portray her.

My degree is in engineering and I work in IT so I know nothing about writing stories. Everything I post is just my take and not meant to offend. Hopefully it didn't come off that way.
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Old 2009-08-12, 10:10   Link #1853
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While there are some characters that are visible antagonists, I don't think Macross is designed as a story about morality. Nor, for that matter, is overcoming personal "flaws" an essential part of character development; the vital change is occurs within the audience in their perception of the character. (This is where my stance differs from mag, since I couldn't care less about a character's "morality" (whatever that may mean), so long as they're interesting to watch.)

I think that the problem with Ranka's characterization towards the end of the series is that the presentation of her inner struggles is rushed. For example, her encounter with Ai in the woods is a turning point for her character, but it's unclear what her revelation actually is. Are her concerns specific to Ai in wanting to return him home? Does she have grand visions of stopping the ongoing war? Furthermore, the decision seems strange because we don't see what triggered it - did Ai tell her something, or was this idea something that suddenly struck her?

Likewise, her conflict with Alto is also in want of some direction. From episode fifteen onwards, Ranka was conflicted between fighting the Vajra to make Alto happy, and resolving the feelings of discomfort that she felt whenever fighting them. By episodes twenty and twenty-one, Ranka was left with the feeling that he was simply using her as a tool to fight the Vajra. While the end of the conflict with the Vajra removes the need for Ranka and Alto to be on opposite sides, it's unclear how she resolved her feelings about being used between episode twenty-one and episode twenty-five. This is likewise a time issue, as it's the sort of thing that would require a face to face conversation to sort out.

None of these are "character flaws" in the conventional sense. But the awkward presentation can make it difficult for the audience to relate to some of her decisions.

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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Planning?! We need no planning! We just DOOOOO EEEEET!!
I don't want to give the impression that we always need to be privy to all of a character's inner thoughts; the WTF factor you describe does have some delicious charm as it forces the audience to stay on their toes (this is part of what makes Sheryl so much fun during Star Date, for example). But you definitely need to be able to see what the "win condition" for a character is, if you want to be able to cheer them on to that end.
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Old 2009-08-12, 10:37   Link #1854
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While there are some characters that are visible antagonists, I don't think Macross is designed as a story about morality. Nor, for that matter, is overcoming personal "flaws" an essential part of character development; the vital change is occurs within the audience in their perception of the character. (This is where my stance differs from mag, since I couldn't care less about a character's "morality" (whatever that may mean), so long as they're interesting to watch.)

I think that the problem with Ranka's characterization towards the end of the series is that the presentation of her inner struggles is rushed. For example, her encounter with Ai in the woods is a turning point for her character, but it's unclear what her revelation actually is. Are her concerns specific to Ai in wanting to return him home? Does she have grand visions of stopping the ongoing war? Furthermore, the decision seems strange because we don't see what triggered it - did Ai tell her something, or was this idea something that suddenly struck her?

Likewise, her conflict with Alto is also in want of some direction. From episode fifteen onwards, Ranka was conflicted between fighting the Vajra to make Alto happy, and resolving the feelings of discomfort that she felt whenever fighting them. By episodes twenty and twenty-one, Ranka was left with the feeling that he was simply using her as a tool to fight the Vajra. While the end of the conflict with the Vajra removes the need for Ranka and Alto to be on opposite sides, it's unclear how she resolved her feelings about being used between episode twenty-one and episode twenty-five. This is likewise a time issue, as it's the sort of thing that would require a face to face conversation to sort out.

None of these are "character flaws" in the conventional sense. But the awkward presentation can make it difficult for the audience to relate to some of her decisions.


I don't want to give the impression that we always need to be privy to all of a character's inner thoughts; the WTF factor you describe does have some delicious charm as it forces the audience to stay on their toes (this is part of what makes Sheryl so much fun during Star Date, for example). But you definitely need to be able to see what the "win condition" for a character is, if you want to be able to cheer them on to that end.
Well said. Some of my favorite movies of all time feature morally ambiguous or downright evil characters. IMO, A good writer should be able to reveal to the audience just enough to keep them interested and foster interest in the character but not too much as to bore them or hit them over the head with the point they're trying to make. I think that's what kept me interested in BSG's storyline so long.
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Old 2009-08-12, 11:46   Link #1855
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Spoiler for HERE:
Your point? Spell it out here. I'm not going to waste time writing every possible response to that picture. O.o

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
... ... ...
I think that the problem with Ranka's characterization towards the end of the series is that the presentation of her inner struggles is rushed. For example, her encounter with Ai in the woods is a turning point for her character, but it's unclear what her revelation actually is. Are her concerns specific to Ai in wanting to return him home? Does she have grand visions of stopping the ongoing war? Furthermore, the decision seems strange because we don't see what triggered it - did Ai tell her something, or was this idea something that suddenly struck her?

Likewise, her conflict with Alto is also in want of some direction. From episode fifteen onwards, Ranka was conflicted between fighting the Vajra to make Alto happy, and resolving the feelings of discomfort that she felt whenever fighting them. By episodes twenty and twenty-one, Ranka was left with the feeling that he was simply using her as a tool to fight the Vajra. While the end of the conflict with the Vajra removes the need for Ranka and Alto to be on opposite sides, it's unclear how she resolved her feelings about being used between episode twenty-one and episode twenty-five. This is likewise a time issue, as it's the sort of thing that would require a face to face conversation to sort out.

None of these are "character flaws" in the conventional sense. But the awkward presentation can make it difficult for the audience to relate to some of her decisions.
... ... ...
More or less what I think as well. I will add one minor quibble, though... In episode 22 or 23 Ranka does make it clear that she left to try and stop the fighting.
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Old 2009-08-12, 12:01   Link #1856
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Originally Posted by Kylegoblue View Post
I freely admit in my post that I was merely coming up with a creative, albeit simplified, alternative. I wasn't really attempting to predict how things would "reallY' playout in a fictional world. They play out in the way intended by their creators. We're just left to interpret their story. The only opinion I was trying to express was that I think she's a good character that contributed significantly to the story, and not as bad as some try to portray her.

My degree is in engineering and I work in IT so I know nothing about writing stories. Everything I post is just my take and not meant to offend. Hopefully it didn't come off that way.
No, of course not. But if you put something like "Neither Sheryl nor Alto did habe much growth of character" ( paraphrasing here ) into the room, and you get arguments against that, at least try to adress those points.

As for the second topic, about how the characters just play out like the creators intended for the story, well, I already said that my viewpoint is totally different. I prefer to judge a character by how that character developed in the storyline, applying common sense modifiers against his actions.

Assuming that a character behaved stupidly, just because the story had to move forward, doesnīt cut it with me. Since all the other characters in Macross Frontier did not exhibit this behaviour, Ranka stands out and gets that much of a bigger share of criticism from me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
While there are some characters that are visible antagonists, I don't think Macross is designed as a story about morality. Nor, for that matter, is overcoming personal "flaws" an essential part of character development; the vital change is occurs within the audience in their perception of the character. (This is where my stance differs from mag, since I couldn't care less about a character's "morality" (whatever that may mean), so long as they're interesting to watch.)
I actually do care about morality a lot. Doesnīt mean that I canīt love the occasional amoral bastard ( Alucard from TV Hellsing is pretty cool. Alucard from OVA Hellsing is a monster which I canīt stand ) and since I am an agnostic with social democratic leanings, my views on how a society should behave are pretty mild. But, yeah, values like compassion, empathy, courage, honor and the like carry meaning with me.

That said, I donīt really get how you see the preceding discussion being about morality. Characters having development and overcoming personal flaws may be about their morality, but in the case of Macross Frontier, the characters morality isn't the main theme of the show.

As for your assertion about that overcoming character flaws is not essential for character development, I cannot concur. A character which does not change is static.
You can work around that as a storywriter, by presenting him in a wrong light and then revealing to the audience that their perspective simply was wrong, therefore reaching that change of perception you are alluding to.
Also characters can, of course, change due to circunstances but simply be thrown from one inner perspective into the next, without abandoning any inherent flaws at all.
But you canīt dismiss overcoming flaws as non-relevant for characterization and character growth. Other methods of characterization can be chosen by a writer, but it definitely is a part of the repertoire of character development.

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Likewise, her conflict with Alto is also in want of some direction. From episode fifteen onwards, Ranka was conflicted between fighting the Vajra to make Alto happy, and resolving the feelings of discomfort that she felt whenever fighting them. By episodes twenty and twenty-one, Ranka was left with the feeling that he was simply using her as a tool to fight the Vajra. While the end of the conflict with the Vajra removes the need for Ranka and Alto to be on opposite sides, it's unclear how she resolved her feelings about being used between episode twenty-one and episode twenty-five. This is likewise a time issue, as it's the sort of thing that would require a face to face conversation to sort out.
Bwuh? Where exactly was it shown that Ranka thinks Alto is using her as a tool to fight the Vajra? I mean, like, at all?

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Your point? Spell it out here. I'm not going to waste time writing every possible response to that picture. O.o
Then use the search function. This has been discussed over.and.over.and.over again since November, in this very thread and others. You asking ( in a quite hostile tone, no less ) to have it spelled out yet again seems like nothing but an attempt to steal my time.
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Old 2009-08-12, 12:27   Link #1857
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Then use the search function. This has been discussed over.and.over.and.over again since November, in this very thread and others. You asking ( in a quite hostile tone, no less ) to have it spelled out yet again seems like nothing but an attempt to steal my time.
Ehhhh...? How am I being hostile?
I'm not being hostile at all. O.o
I am being blunt. Or direct, if you prefer. No more so than you've been on many occasions. I don't enjoy these huge multi-quote threads, so I'm getting straight to the heart of the matter.

I assure you that I have no interest in wasting your time, but if you're welcome to make statements, I'm welcome to ask questions, no?
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Old 2009-08-12, 12:42   Link #1858
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Ehhhh...? How am I being hostile?
I'm not being hostile at all. O.o
I am being blunt. Or direct, if you prefer. No more so than you've been on many occasions. I don't enjoy these huge multi-quote threads, so I'm getting straight to the heart of the matter.

I assure you that I have no interest in wasting your time, but if you're welcome to make statements, I'm welcome to ask questions, no?
You obviously do not notice how many of your comments come off, then.

Oh, very well. Letīs go down that well worn road again.

a.) Ranka, due to her inability to control her feelings, unleashed the wrath of a million Vaijra on Macross Frontier, when she couldnīt comprehend the fact of the possibility that Sheryl had a dizzy spell and therefore landed in Altos arms.

This is partly excusable by the situation, yet since one episode later she clearly was able to control the Vajra once more ( still with a broken heart ), the question remains if she couldnīt have gotten herself enough under control to help Frontier before it was wrecked by the vast Vajra swarm.

b.) Her fleeing Frontier with Brera was deeply, deeply irresponsible. At the moment she went away, she was the only defense Frontier had against the Vajra. It is only through the happenstance that Sheryl did possess similar talents as Ranka, due to the V-Type infection, that Frontier didnīt suffer catastrophic losses in further battles against the Vajra.

Neither should it be disregarded that Ranka didnīt have much of a clue as to what expected her on the Vajra homeworld. She was simply hoping that her powers would provoke a friendly reception, meaning she essentially went on a suicide mission.

Not to forget, if it hadnīt been for Leons own deceitfulness, Grace *would* be the God-Queen of the Macross universe.
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Old 2009-08-12, 13:12   Link #1859
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a.) Ranka, due to her inability to control her feelings, unleashed the wrath of a million Vaijra on Macross Frontier, when she couldnīt comprehend the fact of the possibility that Sheryl had a dizzy spell and therefore landed in Altos arms.

This is partly excusable by the situation, yet since one episode later she clearly was able to control the Vajra once more ( still with a broken heart ), the question remains if she couldnīt have gotten herself enough under control to help Frontier before it was wrecked by the vast Vajra swarm.
I can't see how that contributes to Ranka's fault here. As I said in my previous post, no one seems to know what goes wrong in Ranka's song. Sheryl doesn't know it is the problem of emotion...Luca thinks they need a speaker XD

Why Ranka song works in the next episode? it's either because 1)She is a fast learner, she notices this problem or 2) The seriousness of this incident makes her focus more.

But the reason 1 and 2 don't take away the fact that Ranka did intend to help in the previous episode. And it is especially hard for Ranka when no one ever tells her why her song works...no one tells her that emotion is the key to control those bugs...if she knew that emotion is the key before that episode, then she is partly responsible for letting those bugs go loose..if she didn't know beforehand, which I assume this is the case, then it's hard to criticize her for letting those bugs go loose

So in summary, from my opinion, Ranka gives it 100% in both episodes (during that Vajra's rampage arc) too bad she didn't know how to use her power effectively..but that isn't her fault at all

As for your point b, I seem to remember that I response those viewpoints not so long ago, so I will not make a reply in here
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Old 2009-08-12, 13:33   Link #1860
Snowblind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
You obviously do not notice how many of your comments come off, then.
Likewise, then.

I'm sorry if that's how it seems, but I assure you it's not the case. I've always tried to keep the tone polite - discussing anime isn't so important to me that I'm going to get upset over it - and I've simply tried to reply as I've been spoken to. I've never spoken down to anyone, I've never questioned anyone's intelligence, I've never been intentionally rude, I've tried to address everything in a factual manner and cite references to the series and real world where applicable, and I've remained calm and conducted my replies with an even tone. I don't see that as being hostile, but if it is, I'm sorry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Oh, very well. Letīs go down that well worn road again.

a.) Ranka, due to her inability to control her feelings, unleashed the wrath of a million Vaijra on Macross Frontier, when she couldnīt comprehend the fact of the possibility that Sheryl had a dizzy spell and therefore landed in Altos arms.

This is partly excusable by the situation, yet since one episode later she clearly was able to control the Vajra once more ( still with a broken heart ), the question remains if she couldnīt have gotten herself enough under control to help Frontier before it was wrecked by the vast Vajra swarm.

b.) Her fleeing Frontier with Brera was deeply, deeply irresponsible. At the moment she went away, she was the only defense Frontier had against the Vajra. It is only through the happenstance that Sheryl did possess similar talents as Ranka, due to the V-Type infection, that Frontier didnīt suffer catastrophic losses in further battles against the Vajra.

Neither should it be disregarded that Ranka didnīt have much of a clue as to what expected her on the Vajra homeworld. She was simply hoping that her powers would provoke a friendly reception, meaning she essentially went on a suicide mission.

Not to forget, if it hadnīt been for Leons own deceitfulness, Grace *would* be the God-Queen of the Macross universe.
Eh, I wasn't the one who brought up how much 'harm' Ranka had supposedly caused again. I'm just replying to what I see as factual inaccuracies.

A) Emotional control? Other characters have had similar lapses... Sheryl, Alto, Michael, Ozma... It's human nature. She's not a Vulcan. Sorry. In addition to this, she didn't want to sing - it was Alto and Sheryl that put her up to it. So lets review:
  • She's human (well, mostly). All normal humans (and Zentradi) will have emotional moments (Zentradi moreso, perhaps, if Guld is anything to go by)
  • She didn't want to sing, she was encouraged to sing despite her feelings.
  • As you admit, she (nor anyone anyone else except maybe Grace) was fully aware of how she affected the Vajra at that point
So either she's not to blame for this, or Alto, Sheryl and any other person in her place is equally at fault. Even Sheryl has 'emotional' moments where she doesn't want to sing. She even puts her emotions into her singing. You're expecting the impossible from Ranka.

B) It was Brera's decision to leave. Blame him for leaving the fleet 'defenseless' (not that it actually was at that point as you can see from the episodes after he left - Alto, Luca and the NUNS squadron employed effective countermeasures against the Vajra by preventing communication and therefore their 'super evolution').

As for Grace - if Ranka hadn't been involved, then it would have been Sheryl in her place. That's the whole reason she was infected with the v-type virus in the first place.

In neither case was she either directly responsible or more responsible than others for bringing harm or death to anyone.
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