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Old 2012-04-14, 19:19   Link #81
winkel
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Long time Typemoon fan here, having the actual Tsukibako as my first ever encounter with the Nasuverse, and loved it ever since.

But I have to ask all of you, how can you guys so easily buy this game?

It's a thought that has been on my mind since the game was detailed, through the numerous delays, and even now, I've been wavering back and forth.

But essentially my issue is Typemoon is asking me, the user, to pay, in the year 2012, $82.32USD for a "game" that contains:

-Only one single route
-No choices
-No voices
-Only 15 hours
-No H-scenes

They're asking full price for essentially a Kinect Novel-style game. And they know full well fans will pay for it just because they are Typemoon.

Does that not bother anyone? Does anyone not care that a game released in this age is yet so behind the standards of even the lowest of the low tier games on the market today?

At this point, I can't. And that is why I chose not to buy this game. To show to Typemoon that not all of their devoted fans are mindless consumers.

If Mahou Tsukai no Yoru was a novelization a la Kara no Kyoukai, I would even be more happy. Because at least it would be sensible in what it offers and asks.

And with the signs that Typemoon has also quietly brushed the Tsukihime remake under the rug, my faith in the company is honestly at an all time low.


:sigh:
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Old 2012-04-14, 22:58   Link #82
Elvin
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IT's because there's little doubt in people's minds that it'll still be better than 90% of the games in the market.
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Old 2012-04-14, 22:58   Link #83
Meltyred
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You mean no Sacchin route?
Forever?
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Old 2012-04-14, 23:33   Link #84
Endscape
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Have you seen the sprites from Mahoyo? They're absolutely breathtaking. That, plus all this anticipation, means I really, really wouldn't grudge Type-Moon my money for this game, no matter how short, unvoiced, etc it is.
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Old 2012-04-14, 23:35   Link #85
Mura
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So I was wondering if we could get some spoilers from the game from those that are playing it.
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Old 2012-04-14, 23:44   Link #86
Archer
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Actually, I only bought it to fuel Nasu's Dark Souls addiction.
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Old 2012-04-14, 23:45   Link #87
Elvin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meltyred View Post
You mean no Sacchin route?
Forever?
They haven't officially dumped it, they just haven't said anything about it for a long, long while.
Which is pretty standard for TM
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Old 2012-04-14, 23:49   Link #88
DragoZERO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winkel View Post
Long time Typemoon fan here, having the actual Tsukibako as my first ever encounter with the Nasuverse, and loved it ever since.

But I have to ask all of you, how can you guys so easily buy this game?

It's a thought that has been on my mind since the game was detailed, through the numerous delays, and even now, I've been wavering back and forth.

But essentially my issue is Typemoon is asking me, the user, to pay, in the year 2012, $82.32USD for a "game" that contains:

-Only one single route
-No choices
-No voices
-Only 15 hours
-No H-scenes

They're asking full price for essentially a Kinect Novel-style game. And they know full well fans will pay for it just because they are Typemoon.

Does that not bother anyone? Does anyone not care that a game released in this age is yet so behind the standards of even the lowest of the low tier games on the market today?

At this point, I can't. And that is why I chose not to buy this game. To show to Typemoon that not all of their devoted fans are mindless consumers.

If Mahou Tsukai no Yoru was a novelization a la Kara no Kyoukai, I would even be more happy. Because at least it would be sensible in what it offers and asks.

And with the signs that Typemoon has also quietly brushed the Tsukihime remake under the rug, my faith in the company is honestly at an all time low.


:sigh:
Faith my friend, faith. I have loved everything Type-Moon and I have no doubt that I will love this. I have F/SN and F/HA (TL over 75% done! lol) and I would love to own Tsukibako too. I do wish we had more routes but it'll still be a fun game and the trial was sweet. The SFX, graphics and art are great. H-scenes don't make a big difference since all you can do is laugh at Nasu's attempt at it. Is disappointing not to see Aoko in more "interesting" ways but that's what doujins are for, lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvin View Post
They haven't officially dumped it, they just haven't said anything about it for a long, long while.
Which is pretty standard for TM
Need to pray for ufotable to do a Tsukihime anime. That'd get Type-Moon working on it!
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Old 2012-04-15, 02:27   Link #89
Arabesque
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyouray View Post
I quickly checked CG thumbnails.
The size of the picture is misleading : it's actually a CG from the game so we have this kind of scene
._.

Game fucking where?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
I also just have ordered the game + artbook from AmiAmi, seeing that it is not sold out in amiami, yet. I have decided to combine it with my two other orders of the month (figurines of Komachi and Patchouli from Touhou) to lessen the cumulated customs fees (I have found out in January that three orders in the same month, delivered at three different dates ended up to be heavier on my walled than one single combined order).
Haha, yes, I found that out at a much earlier date as well ... there was much bitter tears during that day ...

I'm actually surprised that Amiami seems to have put it back on, since every time I checked before it always said sold out (unless they had restocked, which is possible I suppose). In any case I hope that they ship the game with the art book.

These days, I also try and limit where I get my stuff through the less legal route as well, especially when it comes to anime with streaming being more and more encompassing of titles. That said, I never pirated a game since the PS2 days, and since I was interested in this title, it was a given I'd get it. Also helps that I also started having more money for my hobbies (when it's not being given away to customs :cries: )
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
If I had pre-ordered from AmiAmi (which I just found out is in English ) I would have gotten an art book!?
I think Sheba had answered this, but just in case anyone else is wondering, all first editions of the game come with the 100 page Art book, so if for some reason you don't want to order it from Amiami but from somewhere else, you don't need to worry. Well, other than it's already 3 days past release day so ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRW View Post
How long is this "game" by the way?
Going by What Nasu had said a year ago, about the same as the Fate route in Fate/Stay Night, so around 18 hours if you read it normally. When you factor in the jaw dropping and your heart condition after the novels more extreme heart wrenching scenes, about a day I suppose?

Spoiler for excerpt from Tsukikan:


Now then, I think it is important to answer winkel's question and address his concerns, but before that I need to make something clear to you.

First off, let me say that on some level, I agree not only with your concerns, but also with your stance. I am no Typemoon or Tsukihime fan, but I can sympathize with you since I know how hard and difficult it is to see a company neglect a propriety you like for years and years, only to work on other things or constantly delay releases and information while they are milking the same old games ... believe me, I don't want to support this sort of behavior, and I don't look favorably on TM for not at least introducing something new in their mainstream line up for such a long time.

With that said ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by winkel View Post
I have to ask all of you, how can you guys so easily buy this game?

It's a thought that has been on my mind since the game was detailed, through the numerous delays, and even now, I've been wavering back and forth.

But essentially my issue is Typemoon is asking me, the user, to pay, in the year 2012, $82.32USD for a "game" that contains:

-Only one single route
-No choices
-No voices
-Only 15 hours
-No H-scenes

They're asking full price for essentially a Kinect Novel-style game. And they know full well fans will pay for it just because they are Typemoon.

Does that not bother anyone? Does anyone not care that a game released in this age is yet so behind the standards of even the lowest of the low tier games on the market today?

At this point, I can't. And that is why I chose not to buy this game. To show to Typemoon that not all of their devoted fans are mindless consumers.

If Mahou Tsukai no Yoru was a novelization a la Kara no Kyoukai, I would even be more happy. Because at least it would be sensible in what it offers and asks.

And with the signs that Typemoon has also quietly brushed the Tsukihime remake under the rug, my faith in the company is honestly at an all time low.

:sigh:
I assure you, I'm not getting this game on a whim, nor was it easy for me to just place that order on a store I know nothing about but assurance from a few collectors I know. This game costs a hefty price, and without even an OST with it, I wouldn't even have given it a second look (seriously, for a game that is about £60, it would have better came with something more than just an Art book) and also, I wouldn't classify myself as a TM fan (I liked some of the Fate series and KnK, but otherwise my reception of their work had been lukewarm) but I still placed the order 3 months ago, and I'm now waiting for the game anxiously. Why is that?

It's because the very points you listed as weaknesses I consider as strengths, because this is the first new canon work in ages in the Type Moon-verse, and because on an aesthetic level, it clicks with me.

You say that a single route is a step back from the multi-heroine route, I say it's a step forward. You are free to disagree with me, but I honestly feel like there is more room for better story telling when the story's focus is within a single route as opposed to a chose which girl you want to bang to follow that story type of deal. I don't want to dismiss the multi-route stories, since I believe there is some value in them, but as far as preferences go, single route is for me.

The lack of choices and voices works fine for me, since then I can focus more on the actual quality of the story and the usage of the audio and visuals to convey what is going on with the story.

Only 15(18) hours? Length to me isn't really that important as long as the story within that time frame is well done and makes the best usage of it's time to the fullest.

As for no H-scenes ... look, putting aside my personal policy of not owning porn, I want to point out that not would not get this game had it had any H-scenes in it, but I also probably couldn't have gotten this game, looking at how anal the UK Customs can be about it, so for fear of making a scene over nothing, I would have passed on it.

(I actually talked this over with someone here over in London sometime ago when the images of the Fate/Zero manga first showed up with the guro scenes and Sakura's ... um ... the man in question pointed out that he probably wouldn't be able to import any of the manga since he would be scared it would be pegged down as ''indecent and obscene'' material, and told me that was one of the reasons he stopped being a Jinki fan as well, since the more and more he had gotten to see the art books and manag volumes, the more and more he had gotten worried over bringing it here. The discussion turned into one about what problems anime collectors might have regarding importing shows, but that's a different topic)

Does it bother me that some will be paying for this game just because it's made by Type-Moon? Not really, though I suppose some part of me is worried over how loyal their fanbase had become, but personally, I'm more interested in the game itself, and from what I've seen, it's looking really good to me.
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Old 2012-04-15, 10:55   Link #90
winkel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvin View Post
They haven't officially dumped it, they just haven't said anything about it for a long, long while.
It's not even mentioned anywhere on their own page anymore. At least both of the other works, Girl's and Mahou no Yoru have pages and banners up. Tsukihime remake page acts like it never existed, and it's hasn't ever been mentioned of again since the "reveal."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arabesque
It's because the very points you listed as weaknesses I consider as strengths, because this is the first new canon work in ages in the Type Moon-verse, and because on an aesthetic level, it clicks with me.

You say that a single route is a step back from the multi-heroine route, I say it's a step forward. You are free to disagree with me, but I honestly feel like there is more room for better story telling when the story's focus is within a single route as opposed to a chose which girl you want to bang to follow that story type of deal. I don't want to dismiss the multi-route stories, since I believe there is some value in them, but as far as preferences go, single route is for me.

The lack of choices and voices works fine for me, since then I can focus more on the actual quality of the story and the usage of the audio and visuals to convey what is going on with the story.

Only 15(18) hours? Length to me isn't really that important as long as the story within that time frame is well done and makes the best usage of it's time to the fullest.

As for no H-scenes ... look, putting aside my personal policy of not owning porn, I want to point out that not would not get this game had it had any H-scenes in it, but I also probably couldn't have gotten this game, looking at how anal the UK Customs can be about it, so for fear of making a scene over nothing, I would have passed on it.
Interesting perspective, appreciate it.

But I have to say, I would consider that in the minority, as opposed to the general public, and veterans of Typemoon. The only reason I could think as to why Typemoon could honestly ended up choosing to make such a game (without being a cynic and calling them out on the fact that they are just trying to cash in with as little effort as possible, seeing as the main story for Mahou no Yoru existed long before and everything else is an effort to pretty up the story with as little cost as possible to allow the rabid fans to devour) is because they are trying to appeal to the mainstream. Shorter, no 18+ rating to turn away audiences, no complicated routes, "mainstream" pop supercell songs, and the like. And honestly, it may work, it may not. We'll see.

But the suggestion that Typemoon is trying to branch out of their audience without giving any true concern to the people who made them who they are today is what disappoints me the most. All those things you find positive are things that are either not standard of Typemoon or not standard to the genre conventions. It's not about "bucking the trend" either: making a product in this genre, one has certain expectations to hold up to. Because they are Typemoon, they are clearly going to get away with it, but if this was some lesser studio, it would have never flown. Kudos to them if it works out for them, as I am but a single fan, but even so I want to make myself heard, even if it is a tiny cry in a sea of roars.
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Old 2012-04-15, 11:03   Link #91
Klashikari
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I'm particularly worried due to a good chunk of comments on 2ch, stating that the game is actually worth 8 hours of reading, and it is quite... "chuuni".
Will probably check it myself, but so far, the demo didn't completely convinced me, so gonna my expectations low, considering the circumstances for Mahoyo.
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Old 2012-04-15, 11:45   Link #92
bahamut zero
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
I'm particularly worried due to a good chunk of comments on 2ch, stating that the game is actually worth 8 hours of reading, and it is quite... "chuuni".
What's chuuni?
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Old 2012-04-15, 12:00   Link #93
Klashikari
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Chuuni comes from 中二病 (Chuunibyou), literally illness of second middle school year. It is a derogative japanese term for teenagers who act like adults who know everything or pretends having super powers/achieving great feats and the like. By extention, it can be applied to adults who have such delusional behaviour (Okarin in S;G and Kuroneko from Oreimo can be considered Chuuni).
In layman terms, it is basically someone acting immature, using artificial means to look interesting/cool (acting like a yankee while they are just scrub, trying to act "unique" with questionable fashion sense/music taste etc).

It is also used for stories which are basically like "what fanfiction of a teenager would go", so basically some flashy shounen-ish crap and the likes.
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Old 2012-04-15, 15:13   Link #94
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My friend (who's already done with the archives whatever that is) tells me it's something to do with action scenes that bear a ton of reflection afterward? Like pages of text spent on analyzing why this or that was countered or the effects of this or that attack all in the space of one ingame second. Or something.

I dunno how to type out and interpret what she said over the phone Overall she says it's got the same atmosphere as nasu's previous works, and she "likes Soujurou's and Aoko's interactions, kind of a new spin on a Shirou/Rin dynamic". And that it is an easy read, save for some particular kanji. And the system is "gorgeous, almost a new type of visual novel unto itself with unique presentation".
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Old 2012-04-15, 16:51   Link #95
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Chuuni comes from 中二病 (Chuunibyou), literally illness of second middle school year. It is a derogative japanese term for teenagers who act like adults who know everything or pretends having super powers/achieving great feats and the like. By extention, it can be applied to adults who have such delusional behaviour (Okarin in S;G and Kuroneko from Oreimo can be considered Chuuni).
In layman terms, it is basically someone acting immature, using artificial means to look interesting/cool (acting like a yankee while they are just scrub, trying to act "unique" with questionable fashion sense/music taste etc).

It is also used for stories which are basically like "what fanfiction of a teenager would go", so basically some flashy shounen-ish crap and the likes.
so something like eccentric?
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Old 2012-04-15, 17:16   Link #96
DragoZERO
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so something like eccentric?
I think "wannabe" is the closest thing in English to it.
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Old 2012-04-15, 18:23   Link #97
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The Japanese are tearing Mahoyo apart, seems like this turned out to be complete shit as expected. 8 hours long, mostly filled with mind-numbingly boring slice-of-life and terrible writing ("killing is wrong mmmkay").
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Old 2012-04-15, 19:59   Link #98
Von Himmel
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^
My friend who's been on the same thread that it doesn't reflect the general thoughts of the game. He said that there's only one person who said it like that. It's like gamefaqs when there are haters everywhere in all kinds of games whether it's good or bad w

Anyway, it's a work that was created by Nasu when he/she haven't even got to college(?) yet and his/her first work. I think I would understand if the work itself isn't perfect like what we hoped too...but reading the demo, I don't think that it's that bad.
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Old 2012-04-15, 20:20   Link #99
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so something like eccentric?
The closest thing in western media would be those times in Dawson's Creek that made you think, "The hell? Would a teenager really say that?"
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Old 2012-04-15, 21:00   Link #100
DragoZERO
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Mine is shipping now... 2,400 for shipping, lol.

I am surprised that so many people don't like it. Makes me wonder if they were expecting too much. We knew it was one routI can't see it being 8 hours of play since the demo was like 2 but I'm sure it's still fun.
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