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Old 2009-06-25, 00:53   Link #20321
yvj
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Originally Posted by incorrupts View Post

If Kallen was not captured, the whole massacre would not have happened but anyway. Ifx2 she was present after Shirley's death, then yeah, she would talk Lelouch out of it. And seeing how she managed to talk him out in Turn 7, i think she would have the possibilities to be all "fuck yeah, success." for that one as well.
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Old 2009-06-25, 03:23   Link #20322
Kid Ying
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
Ah, now here's the thing about that. Shirley's death was a personal loss for both Lelouch and Kallen. If Kallen had been around at the time she could very well have helped console Lelouch and it would've been almost immediately apparent to her if he was going to do something rash in retaliation. But to answer the question, yes she definitely would have been opposed to the massacre and would've spoken up about it.
Ah, but Lelouch would never tell her about the massacre. Lelouch just wanted the crazy and the guys without balls in that mission.

And i'm not underestimating Kallen's power. If she made Lelouch cheer up after Nunnally's FUCKING DEATH, she could do anything with the guy, but i don't think he would give her part in the massacre and i don't think she would take the idea of his mind, not just because of the vengeance, but because sonner or later, he has to do it. What we got was just the union between what he wanted to do with what he needed to do.
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Old 2009-06-25, 03:54   Link #20323
Nobodyman9
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Ah, but Lelouch would never tell her about the massacre. Lelouch just wanted the crazy and the guys without balls in that mission.

And i'm not underestimating Kallen's power. If she made Lelouch cheer up after Nunnally's FUCKING DEATH, she could do anything with the guy, but i don't think he would give her part in the massacre and i don't think she would take the idea of his mind, not just because of the vengeance, but because sonner or later, he has to do it. What we got was just the union between what he wanted to do with what he needed to do.
Well, it is all what-ifs, but I'm just wondering where Kallen would've been during that time if she hadn't been captured. Of course, I guess you could come up with about umpteen explanations of where Kallen could've been during the massacre and how Lelouch would've kept it from her had she not been captured. Still, she was his most loyal and powerful soldier.
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Old 2009-06-25, 04:17   Link #20324
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
Well, it is all what-ifs, but I'm just wondering where Kallen would've been during that time if she hadn't been captured. Of course, I guess you could come up with about umpteen explanations of where Kallen could've been during the massacre and how Lelouch would've kept it from her had she not been captured. Still, she was his most loyal and powerful soldier.
and more importently
the captain of zero squad (the unit he used)
it would be hard to use any other unit for it (since its the only unit that comes under his direct command
and it would be hard to use the unit without letting tis commander know about it
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Old 2009-06-25, 04:23   Link #20325
yvj
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Well I guess it depends on how premeditated this act was. If he was "oh snap its on" then he would just order the massacre assume everyone would go with the flow because he ordered it (sorta like the comfort scene) and then Kallen would do whatever.

However if he sat back and thought about it for awhile he might take the opportunity to arrange another "mission" for Kallen

Does no one think she'd be able to "understand" the need for the massacre and go through with it?
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Old 2009-06-25, 04:33   Link #20326
Kid Ying
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Hum, i think he was already planning that ever since Rolo appeared, after all, he didn't wanted any more geass users out there wanting to kill him.

It's just that Shirley's death made him saying "Fuck it. I will eat them ALLLLLLL". Besides, i don't think Lelouch is at a fault in that situation, he needed to get rid of the geass massacre, but it would be better if he just used people he really trusted, like Jeremiah and Rolo. People that will never backstab him. Just Jeremiah's KMF was enough to blow up the whole place.

And i think she would understand if Lelouch explained everything to her, while not in a crazy vibe, just like he was after Shirley's death. If everything did go according to his keikaku, i think Kallen would get the idea. But i don't think she would go throught with it just like that, but hey, it's Kallen after all, she was willing to fight with Lelouch in Zero Requiem knowing full well that he was in the wrong side and killing innocent people, so anything is possible.
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Old 2009-06-25, 05:51   Link #20327
bladeofdarkness
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lelouch ordering the massacre was not a logical well thought of step
and it was not what he was originally planing to do about this cult
it was an emotional Griff feel'd reaction to sheirly's murder
his interactions with C.C make it clear that he didnt think this through and was acting based on pain and rage, and she points out that this is not the original plan
he simply went nuts

whether or not he would have involved kallen in this attack is doubtful in my mind
on the one hand you need to remember that he didnt need people there who might stand up to him
on the other hand, he wasnt really thinking straight about it either

and i kinda doubt kallen would go along with a massacre of unarmed women and children
even if (and maybe, especially) she knew about shierly's death
if anything, it would only make it clearer that this was an act of rage rather then anything else
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Old 2009-06-25, 05:54   Link #20328
Kid Ying
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Unarmed? Those kids were a bunch os psychos with superpowers. The first moment one of the guys showed some compassion, they kicked his ass. No one is a saint in that story.

And he was wanting to take the geass cult for a while, otherwise, he wouldn't be interested in getting information about it even before Shirley dying. It's just that he wasn't planning to do that at that time. Shirley's death just made him hurry up, but sooner or later he would do that either way, unless he want an army of Rolos around to get him.
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Old 2009-06-25, 06:03   Link #20329
bladeofdarkness
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the kids were acting against a force of KMF's that had been butchering everyone in the place
their reaction is at least understandable (given what they had been raised to do all their lives)
rolo was raised in the same place, and he also responds with "murder is the best solution" to most problems
and the kids at least were under threat (which is more then i can say for sheirly)

he was going to take over it
use it to his cause (C.C used to be the former leader after all)
it was after shierly's death that he deceided to wipe it off the face of the earth
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Old 2009-06-25, 06:21   Link #20330
Kid Ying
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Ah, c'moon, Bladdy! Those kids are baaad. Rolo was also bad before knowing love, those kids never got that. They would kill without a second thought and they got the power to do this. Okay, we can't compare with the KMF power, but it's not like they were just killing innocent cientists and kids, hehe.

To me, those kids are as bad as the kids in that movie with Superman, village of the damned.
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Old 2009-06-25, 06:30   Link #20331
bladeofdarkness
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these kids know only one thing
following orders
take over the cult, put C.C in as the new head mistress and you get an army of geass able children at your serves
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Old 2009-06-25, 07:38   Link #20332
Bonzo
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The kids had to become a special army with the mission to control every political, economical and military power in the world.

The geass army was the way to change the world decided by V.V, like the innovator in gundam 00, a new human race.
That plan born BEFORE Marianne death

The akshata sword instead was the plan organized by Charles after Marianne death with the target to eliminate V.V lies too, when Lelouch destroyed geass cult and their children soldier, Charles just accelerated his plan.
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Old 2009-06-25, 07:51   Link #20333
incorrupts
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Can you move this whole-above-debate to the generic thread discussion or something? No wonder some people claim, that Kallen's thread, has a lot of junk not involving Kallen actually.
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Old 2009-06-25, 12:55   Link #20334
reaper_unique
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well that isn't surprising concidering there are over 1000 pages. I think everything has been said
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Old 2009-06-25, 13:02   Link #20335
Nobodyman9
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well that isn't surprising concidering there are over 1000 pages. I think everything has been said
Oh trust me reaper, they can always come up with something new to talk about
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Old 2009-06-25, 15:59   Link #20336
reaper_unique
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but eventually they come to the same conclusion.

They need new material, please deliver sunrise
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Old 2009-06-25, 16:08   Link #20337
Nobodyman9
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Originally Posted by reaper_unique View Post
but eventually they come to the same conclusion.

They need new material, please deliver sunrise
Oh c'mon. Hasn't Kallen gotten enough supplementary material?

Well, there's always the hope of Zero Requiem DVDs having uncut episodes with new animation, among which could be the gumline.
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Old 2009-06-25, 16:10   Link #20338
incorrupts
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Originally Posted by reaper_unique View Post
but eventually they come to the same conclusion.

They need new material, please deliver sunrise
One material, that was our right and it was rid from us. The code word: Gumline. Honest, it is like the baw-line for Kalulu fans. You will not meet anyone who will just say "ah, gumline yeah it was cut." It will be like "BAWW, gumline, oh man those 83043%#$" Yeah. 8D
I felt violated, when the last turn ended and i did not got my gumline as promised. //after the eternal baw over Lulu
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Old 2009-06-25, 16:11   Link #20339
bladeofdarkness
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well the gum line would be welcomes
but what i want is a final talk between kallen and lelouch
we got one with C.C, nunnaly, and even NINA got lelouch saying that shes a good person
kallen basiclly got a monologue
i want to actually get the fucking answer to "what do i mean to you"
i kinda want to know what lelouch thinks of her
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Old 2009-06-25, 16:16   Link #20340
Nobodyman9
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well the gum line would be welcomes
but what i want is a final talk between kallen and lelouch
we got one with C.C, nunnaly, and even NINA got lelouch saying that shes a good person
kallen basiclly got a monologue
i want to actually get the fucking answer to "what do i mean to you"
i kinda want to know what lelouch thinks of her
Ah, we all want to know what Lelouch thinks of his ladies. He's a secretive fellow that way. Well, we got the answer to one of 'em anyway.
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