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Old 2009-06-28, 15:50   Link #20421
SonOfHeaven
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Originally Posted by Betteroffer View Post
This is something I've been wondering (forgive me if it has come up before).

Kallen spent a large portion of the series being jealous of the closeness and trust between C.C. and Lelouch, culminating in her running out to face Xing-ke in China without confirming the Guren's repair status and resulting in her capture.

In Turn 22 Kallen was trying to express a willingness to follow Lelouch no matter what (to Hell). That is to say, Kallen wanted to be part of Lelouch's plan like C.C. always was, and like Suzaku suddenly was. In the end I think Kallen wanted to Lelouch to see her as an Equal and useful, and in a sense had to "settle" for being a Pillar of his Existence, and something he wanted to protect. This is not that she is by any means unhappy with it, as the use of quotation marks hopefully noted, but the tone of her poem seemed to imply that she would have preferred that he had let her in on ZR.

Conversly, the post series character profiles said that C.C. wanted Lelouch to see her as a sort of nurturing, mother-ish figure right? This is what I interpret to be behind C.C.'s remark to Mao that she did love him once (right before shooting him in the base of the skull).

"Sadly," Lelouch regarded her as an Equal, and "never yearned for her as a mother or lover. Not even once." Thus while C.C. wanted to be a Pillar of Lelouch's Existence, she had to "settle" for being an Equal. Again, this is not to say that C.C. is unhappy with it, since his promise to her as a person was what restored her smile, just that it isn't what she trully wanted from him at the end of her character development.

In the end, would it be safe (or at least not crazy) to say that C.C. and Kallen were each a little jealous of the place the other held in Lelouch's heart? Kallen wanted Lelouch's trust foremost, which C.C. had, while C.C. wanted some form of affection from Leouch, which Kallen had?
I must have missed this. This is an very interesting take on Kallen and C.C. Its seems like its an possibility to me.
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Old 2009-06-28, 17:37   Link #20422
azul120
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Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
Been ages since I posted in these sub-forums. Good to see blade is still around.

I think another aspect of it is Lelouch didn't want empathy from Kallen. If Kallen knew what the final outcome of Zero Requiem was, she definitely would have tried to stop him. Kallen's loyalty stems from her eternal desire to defend Japan and the innocent. Lelouch knew this from the get-go and that to reign in a free spirit like Kallen was not the right thing to do. Kallen was her own master and always accepted the consequences of her actions. She didn't need to have someone to hold her hand or spoon-feed her. Kallen was always perfect capable of standing on her own feet. Her only real flaw is her infallible belief in Zero. But then, wasn't almost anyone on the Japanese side of the coin guilty of that? What set Kallen apart was that she was able to forgive when others couldn't. That made her a much better person that the others around her.

Post-war, she still had a lot to do in life, she had barely begun to live. That is the best gift anyone could give Kallen and Lelouch was one of the few people that understood that. Like Milly, Kallen still wouldn't have fully developed as a person and had lived a life that was dictated by what other people wanted. The end gives Kallen the chance to find her own way solely on her own terms. There will always be some emotional grief, but not to the degree of feeling guilt. That burden fell to Suzaku, the one who finally gets to play the hero but will never get the recognition. As for Ougi being PM, well, he always was the diplomatic one in the Black Knights. He was their leader, after all. Although Kallen was definitely their heart and soul.
With the obvious exception of the betrayal, where Ohgi sold out Lelouch to Schneizel, and Kallen was trying to come to Lelouch's defense, only to be threatened by Ohgi as well.

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Originally Posted by incorrupts View Post
Yeah, but Lelouch did not seem to care much about Suzaku getting shit in comparison to Kallen, lulz.
He did not want to drag her down into his last path, so he set his girl free. Simple. 8)
Lelouch took Suzaku with him because they both shared the desire to punish themselves and deny themselves of any future happiness. When it came to Kallen, Lelouch saw no such desire.
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Old 2009-06-28, 17:49   Link #20423
bladeofdarkness
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more accurate to say (IMO) that lelouch wanted to deny himself (and suzaku, by his own choice) future happiness
while at the same time securing kallen's
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Old 2009-06-28, 17:55   Link #20424
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Originally Posted by azul120 View Post


Lelouch took Suzaku with him because they both shared the desire to punish themselves and deny themselves of any future happiness. When it came to Kallen, Lelouch saw no such desire.
And the part that he loved her {i am not gonna say romantically zomg} and wanted to ensure her future in a way. Pretty much, part of his little wish and his line on Turn 19. And that is canon. 8D
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Old 2009-06-28, 18:21   Link #20425
morbosfist
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What they said. There's definitely more to it than that. The generalization also doesn't apply to C.C., Jeremiah, Sayoko, Lloyd, or Cecile.

On a different topic, I read a funny review on Lord Bear's fanfic.
Spoiler for Just so it can be quoted for context:
Normally I'd just dismiss such a dismissal, but I found it funny that he seems to have missed everything after that scene, or before for that matter.
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Old 2009-06-28, 18:25   Link #20426
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Haha, thanks for that morbos, it gave me lulz.

Because every girl that does not openly waving a flag saying "i love youuuuu" does not love the boy.
Obvious dismissal of the whole KallenxLelouch development.
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Old 2009-06-28, 18:35   Link #20427
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Because the phrase what am I to you? Has such innocent implications.

Here's what's funny the questions leading up to that question were the "Kallen as a soldier" questions. Everything leading up to the last one were arguably very "professional" for the lack of a better word.

Then she goes "What am I to you?" AND THEN KISSES HIM

Yes that is as platonic as you can get from a person. It's more like a sisterly situation really.
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Old 2009-06-28, 18:36   Link #20428
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Originally Posted by yvj View Post
Because the phrase what am I to you? Has such innocent implications.

Here's what's funny the questions leading up to that question were the "Kallen as a soldier" question. Everything leading up to the last question question were arguably very "professional" for the lack of a better word.

Then she goes "What am I to you?" AND THEN KISSES HIM

Yes that is as platonic as you get get from a person. It's more like sisterly situation really.

Yeah, check that new concept of admiration, rite? I mean, pure admiration. Not getting wet pants and turns on, while kissing, sure. But nope, it is code:admiration. Yeah. 8D
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Old 2009-06-28, 18:37   Link #20429
bladeofdarkness
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well i do admit that he's right about the whole "not like shierly" part
not that kallen's love is on a lesser level, but rather how its presented
shierly's number one character trait is her love for lelouch
if there has to be one single line which discribes her role in the show it would be "girl who loves lelouch"
kallen only made her feelings for lelouch REALLY clear towards the last quarter of the show
before that part of the show, she herself is unclear about how she feels for him
so the basic difference between the two is in my opinion this

sheirly loves lelouch from the start, and spends the show trying to win his heart
kallen spends the show FALLING in love with lelouch, while in effect trying to achive something completely different
doesnt make it lesser (if anything, the scene in ep 19 just makes clear the extent of her love to him)
but its not the same as with shierly, who knows from the start that she loves lelouch, and therfor all her actions stem from it
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Old 2009-06-28, 18:40   Link #20430
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Originally Posted by incorrupts View Post

Yeah, check that new concept of admiration, rite? I mean, pure admiration. Not getting wet pants and turns on, while kissing, sure. But nope, it is code:admiration. Yeah. 8D
I love Kallen's admiration cry in turn 25...that was so sad. And how she keeps an admiration photo in her room. Admirably bittersweet I say. Oh and I forgot about her song when she says "thank you for your admiration."

Hey I hear some guys admire some women so much they fap to them. Go figure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
well i do admit that he's right about the whole "not like shierly" part
not that kallen's love is on a lesser level, but rather how its presented
shierly's number one character trait is her love for lelouch
if there has to be one single line which discribes her role in the show it would be "girl who loves lelouch"
kallen only made her feelings for lelouch REALLY clear towards the last quarter of the show
before that part of the show, she herself is unclear about how she feels for him
so the basic difference between the two is in my opinion this

sheirly loves lelouch from the start, and spends the show trying to win his heart
kallen spends the show FALLING in love with lelouch, while in effect trying to achive something completely different
doesnt make it lesser (if anything, the scene in ep 19 just makes clear the extent of her love to him)
but its not the same as with shierly, who knows from the start that she loves lelouch, and therfor all her actions stem from it
Well or course a distinction can be made on when the love had materialized. But that's irrelevant to what was said. "Not like Shirley is clearly a phrase implying some rank of love. Which makes no sense. Unless someone can prove love can be measured.

Though actually this person dismissed Kallen's love altogether.
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Old 2009-06-28, 18:45   Link #20431
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Originally Posted by yvj View Post
I love Kallen's admiration cry in turn 25...that was so sad. And how she keeps an admiration photo in her room. Admirably bittersweet I say. Oh and I forgot about her song when she says "thank you for your admiration."

Hey I hear some guys admire some women so much they fap to them. Go figure.

Yep, you know it Vlad. And of course, how Kallen wrote her "admiration rhapsody" towards Lelouch/Zero.
And of coursex2, admiration that does involve wet dreams too, even if she was only on the Zero-part in the beginning. {certain S1 NT canon stories anyone?}
And the admiration-object, totally recognizing that admiration, thus asking for "love me on the rocks, come on be my love tonight"-nights. In certain Turns 7s. "Am i wrong, am i wrong" Vlad? 8DD
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Old 2009-06-28, 18:52   Link #20432
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Then again, Lord Bear started his fanfic pretty briefly after the series ended. Still, Kallen freaking out over Lelouch's execution on the site is an outright retconning of that very moment. Which is a shame, because otherwise it's interesting stuff in spite of the canon/continuity holes.
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Old 2009-06-28, 18:54   Link #20433
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Originally Posted by incorrupts View Post

Yep, you know it Vlad. And of course, how Kallen wrote her "admiration rhapsody" towards Lelouch/Zero.
And of coursex2, admiration that does involve wet dreams too, even if she was only on the Zero-part in the beginning. {certain S1 NT canon stories anyone?}
And the admiration-object, totally recognizing that admiration, thus asking for "love me on the rocks, come on be my love tonight"-nights. In certain Turns 7s. "Am i wrong, am i wrong" Vlad? 8DD
Ah he was filled with "rock me baby" "be my lady" and "you make me crazy" admiration in turn 7. Kallen's lips of course were admirably quivering, too bad he came on a tad to strong with his admiration.

I'll say this admiration that comes with wet dreams are the best kind.
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Old 2009-06-28, 18:55   Link #20434
morbosfist
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Then again, Lord Bear started his fanfic pretty briefly after the series ended. Still, Kallen freaking out over Lelouch's execution on the site is an outright retconning of that very moment. Which is a shame, because otherwise it's interesting stuff in spite of the canon/continuity holes.
The reivew I quoted is the latest one. There's really no excuse since it's run its course on both Adult Swim and the original.
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Old 2009-06-28, 18:57   Link #20435
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Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
Then again, Lord Bear started his fanfic pretty briefly after the series ended. Still, Kallen freaking out over Lelouch's execution on the site is an outright retconning of that very moment. Which is a shame, because otherwise it's interesting stuff in spite of the canon/continuity holes.
Lol, Kallen was obviously so in love with Lelouch within the series, and the poem made the already canon = solid canon, when it came to her feelings.
Like, lulz. She loved him, it was obvious even to my dog's eye.


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Ah he was filled with "rock me baby" "be my lady" and "you make me crazy" admiration in turn 7. Kallen's lips of course were admirably quivering, too bad he came on a tad to strong with his admiration.

I'll say this admiration that comes with wet dreams are the best kind.
Well actually, i think Lelouch tried to say "your short mini dress and your big b..blue eyes make my pants feel tight" but bitch slap!!1, Kallen is a girl that will not be satisfied easily. {not in a ghetto, dude Lulu, you ought to be romantic 8D}
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Old 2009-06-28, 19:05   Link #20436
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Well actually, i think Lelouch tried to say "your short mini dress and your big b..blue eyes make my pants feel tight" but bitch slap!!1, Kallen is a girl that will not be satisfied easily. {not in a ghetto, dude Lulu, you ought to be romantic 8D}
He was backed up with technically a lifetime worth of admiration of course his pants were getting shorter. Might have gotten himself badly chaffed that night.

Yeah Lelouch wasn't really thinking about the the current environment was he? Right there in the ghetto, damn that boy had it bad.

Yes I do get the lulz
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Old 2009-06-28, 19:06   Link #20437
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He was backed up with technically a lifetime worth of admiration of course his pants were getting shorter. Might have gotten badly chaffed that night.

Yeah Lelouch wasn't really thinking about the the current environment was he? Right there in the ghetto, damn that boy had it bad.

Yes I do get the lulz
You cannot fight admiration-drive now, can you Vlad? Nope.
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Old 2009-06-28, 19:09   Link #20438
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You cannot fight admiration-drive now, can you Vlad? Nope.
It's tough, it can make a man pause during his death flashback.

I heard from good sources it can only be cured with admiration topping.
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Old 2009-06-28, 19:11   Link #20439
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It's tough, it can make a man pause during his death flashback.

I hear from good sources it can only be cured with admiration topping.

Ah, that is wise and true. But, i also heard, some people/events, admired-cockblocked them, cause too much admiration could lead not to the zero-rule-the-world results, that most people wanted, hum.
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Old 2009-06-28, 19:20   Link #20440
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Ah, that is wise and true. But, i also heard, some people/events, admired-cockblocked them, cause too much admiration could lead not to the zero-rule-the-world results, that most people wanted, hum.
Well there will always be admiration envy. It happens. It's true though that lelouch probably didn't have the energy to admire Kallen and take over the world. He had enough stamina for one or the other.

Plus in the fandom Kalulu admiration might be too much for some people to handle.


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