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Old 2009-11-02, 18:32   Link #21961
Betteroffer
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Jeremiah could come on the shuttle with Lelouch and activate the canceler at its widest range once they saw Kallen outside. Lelouch could then immediately reapply it to the few soldiers he brought with him and then re geass Kallen during their little sidetrip. Unlike Bonzo's story, their is no indication that she is bugged, and even then, Lelouch is smart enough to slip the command into normal conversation seemlessly.

The command could be for her to avoid the fight or do something that gets her handed over to Lelouch, but in a way that makes it look like she was captured by him. Once he reveals he used his geass to the BK in a cocky speech, then they will do what they can to preserve her image assuming they survive.

The thing is, if we go by the level of logic in the series it would probably be safe to say that the world would forgive her afterwards because Lelouch's death would facilitate it. Nina mentions that other countries were after her for making FLEIJA, yet she is shown to be free and outside in the epilogue and last PD, even after she helped Lelouch. She and the others claimed they were forced to aid him, rather than swearing they don't remember doing it. If Nina is left alone after Zero Requiem, then it would probably be safe to assume Kallen would be as well, especially if Lelouch also made the claim that his soldiers kidnapped her mother. At that point she could probably be excused for actually fighting on Lelouch's side.
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Old 2009-11-02, 18:50   Link #21962
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Jeremiah never used the geass eraser on Kallen, otherwise she could remember Lelouch used the geass on her, then kallen could betray Lelouch too.

About the last picture drama, that special ending is very absurd by some point of view, all the characters seems very ninny during that event.
We know japan teenage are like children on their heads (I seen it with my eyes during my trip in Japan some time ago), but sometimes is too much excessive.

Everybody know, the justice never forget, then before or after, who's guilt she/he will pay in a realistic world, I know, code geass is very far to be realistic, but some more realism could to realize a better second season and not that...."thing".
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Old 2009-11-02, 18:57   Link #21963
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She already betrayed him at kamine island...
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Old 2009-11-02, 19:14   Link #21964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
She already betrayed him at kamine island...
A little persuaded by Suzaku, however, when she asked to Lelouch if he used the geass on her...

He just answer she made what she wanted and followed her will, a clever way to say "she decided herself".

Otherwise, if Lelouch told her the truth or jeremiah used his power on her, well...Kallen could kill lelouch in every moment.

In my story Kallen will uncover the truth about Lelouch geassed her, but she forgived him, because at last he used the geass just for a common question and she's too much madly in love.
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Old 2009-11-02, 20:06   Link #21965
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She already knew he used his Geass on her by Turn 2, as she was looking into his eyes but not being affected, in addition to Lelouch telling her she followed him willingly. She never questioned that part again. The command was so incidental, that Kallen remembering it, might not even have conciously registered with her, so she might not even be aware that she had remembered, and she and the other BK probably weren't aware of Jeramiah's canceller, so she would know what was happening.

What I meant was that realistically, Kallen would have had to face some risks in her life, even after fighting against Lelouch in ZR, but the fantasy logic used in the series with allowing Nina to go free means that the same logic could let Kallen slaughter the BK and at the end just say "But he had my mommy in jail." and the world would forgive her, no questions asked.
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Old 2009-11-02, 20:44   Link #21966
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At last that event on turn 2 Kallen had some suspect then she fought Lelouch about it, but at last if you look the episodes, Kallen never watch Lelouch in the eyes when he was without the "lens" than at last she never had a real answer, she suspected to be a geass victim, but never had a confirm, she trust on lelouch, that's it.

About the fantasy logic on CG ending, I know, I played using realism to fix something, then Nina success to return to a normal life, but after years (almost 6) hided by Ashford family, a new identity and the big Rivalz generosity act, but at last she's always under a big protection by Ashford staff, she's a good investment, Nina will be the creator of the "solar spectrum engine".

By another point of...unreal, look sayoko, she still be a maid for ashford family, japan free or less, at last few things are changed.
I preferred to give Sayoko the loyalty for her little mistress Nunnally and she still continue to be her maid and help, like the fact Sayoko is attached to her and for to keep the promise she did with Lelouch, the only doubt i have, if to give her a inherit leaved by Jeremiah or not.

The first script made by Taniguchi (before sunrise modifies) was more better, a similar ending, but more clear and logic (if the script I finded was the authentic one).
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Old 2009-11-03, 03:15   Link #21967
Lolipopo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzo View Post
At last that event on turn 2 Kallen had some suspect then she fought Lelouch about it, but at last if you look the episodes, Kallen never watch Lelouch in the eyes when he was without the "lens" than at last she never had a real answer, she suspected to be a geass victim, but never had a confirm, she trust on lelouch, that's it.
In the same time, Lelouch never looked at her without his lens off so I doubt they never exchanged sexy, longing looks because of their fear of his geass (or more like her fear). It's more like he never happened being all bare eyes in front of her.

Quote:
She already betrayed him at kamine island...
What a shame to run away from a guy who basically told you "you were my puppet honey " and not staying by his sides. Especially when another guy is there to add salt to the plate.
Just to say.
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Old 2009-11-03, 03:35   Link #21968
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
She already betrayed him at kamine island...
she abandoned him on kamine island
after learning that he had betrayed HER, from the start, and was only using her, and all her friends for his own goals
as well as learning that he has mind control powers that he may or may not have used on her
after he up and ditched the entire army in the middle of a critical battle that would decide the fate of japan to go chase after his sister
and after he had just threatened to kill both suzaku AND her (for no reason) with a bomb

and even then, she starts out wanting to help him until suzaku again throws all those facts in her face

let keep things in perspective shall we
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Old 2009-11-03, 08:49   Link #21969
Paladinoras
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Lelouch geassed Kallen..?

When the hell did that happen?
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Old 2009-11-03, 09:14   Link #21970
bladeofdarkness
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ep 3
he questioned her about who she is and why she's a terrorist
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Old 2009-11-03, 09:15   Link #21971
Paladinoras
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R1/R2? I seriously can't remember it.
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Old 2009-11-03, 09:39   Link #21972
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season 1 ep 3
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Old 2009-11-03, 09:42   Link #21973
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
season 1 ep 3
Oh, but as far as I can remember...

He geassed her simply to get information right? Not to order her to do something against her will?
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Old 2009-11-03, 09:45   Link #21974
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Originally Posted by Paladinoras View Post
R1/R2? I seriously can't remember it.
Stage 3... the first discussion between Lelouch and Kallen.

Kallen: I-Is there something you want from me?

Lelouch: Answer my question. <Geass command>

Kallen: Yes.

Lelouch: You were piloting a Glasgow in Shinjuku yesterday, weren't you?

Kallen: Yes.

Lelouch: Why are you a terrorist?

Kallen: Because I'm Japanese, even though half of my blood is Britannian.

Lelouch: A half?! <Surprised> But, why go that far?

<Camera shows Shirley spotting Lelouch and Kallen together. Kallen's answer is not heard.>

<Camera returns to Kallen's eyes as the Geass effect dissipates.>

Kallen: Um, was there something that you wished to ask me?

Lelouch: No, I'm done.

<Lelouch turns in order to walk away but turns back once more>

Lelouch: Oh yeah. Just in case. <Activates Geass once more> Say nothing about Shinjuku.

Kallen: Eh. What do you mean "about Shinjuku". Why would you say something like that? <Getting suspicious>

Lelouch: <Surprised> Go back to the classroom. <The line is delivered as another Geass command>

Kallen: I will after you answer my question. <She's on the offensive now, letting some of her real personality show>

Lelouch: <Inner monologue, not something he says to Kallen> It doesn't work? What is this supposed to mean?

<Lelouch realizes his mistake and takes a few step back. Shirley interrupts saying that they're all supposed to be in the lab next. Lelouch takes advantage of the situation and claims he needs to get his equipment before class starts and runs off.>

This was how Lelouch came to realize that he can only Geass someone once. This is also what made Kallen suspicious of him, suspicious enough for her to confront him while showering later.


Edit: Yes, he Geassed her so that he could get some information out of her. This was before they started to get to know each other.
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Old 2009-11-03, 09:51   Link #21975
Paladinoras
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Originally Posted by Meatrose View Post
Stage 3... the first discussion between Lelouch and Kallen.

Kallen: I-Is there something you want from me?

Lelouch: Answer my question. <Geass command>

Kallen: Yes.

Lelouch: You were piloting a Glasgow in Shinjuku yesterday, weren't you?

Kallen: Yes.

Lelouch: Why are you a terrorist?

Kallen: Because I'm Japanese, even though half of my blood is Britannian.

Lelouch: A half?! <Surprised> But, why go that far?

<Camera shows Shirley spotting Lelouch and Kallen together. Kallen's answer is not heard.>

<Camera returns to Kallen's eyes as the Geass effect dissipates.>

Kallen: Um, was there something that you wished to ask me?

Lelouch: No, I'm done.

<Lelouch turns in order to walk away but turns back once more>

Lelouch: Oh yeah. Just in case. <Activates Geass once more> Say nothing about Shinjuku.

Kallen: Eh. What do you mean "about Shinjuku". Why would you say something like that? <Getting suspicious>

Lelouch: <Surprised> Go back to the classroom. <The line is delivered as another Geass command>

Kallen: I will after you answer my question. <She's on the offensive now, letting some of her real personality show>

Lelouch: <Inner monologue, not something he says to Kallen> It doesn't work? What is this supposed to mean?

<Lelouch realizes his mistake and takes a few step back. Shirley interrupts saying that they're all supposed to be in the lab next. Lelouch takes advantage of the situation and claims he needs to get his equipment before class starts and runs off.>

This was how Lelouch came to realize that he can only Geass someone once. This is also what made Kallen suspicious of him, suspicious enough for her to confront him while showering later.
Well, that barely counts as him geassing her. He did...but not to any detrimental effect.
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Old 2009-11-03, 10:45   Link #21976
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Yes, he used the geass on her for to know some obvious info (before to know the geass single-use limit).

It's the motivation because Kallen (in my version) forgive Lelouch so easily, too much love, and she seen her geass curse never involved her feelings and thoughts.
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Old 2009-11-03, 11:50   Link #21977
Lolipopo
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Originally Posted by Meatrose View Post
Stage 3... the first discussion between Lelouch and Kallen.

Kallen: I-Is there something you want from me?

Lelouch: Answer my question. <Geass command>

Kallen: Yes.

Lelouch: You were piloting a Glasgow in Shinjuku yesterday, weren't you?

Kallen: Yes.

Lelouch: Why are you a terrorist?

Kallen: Because I'm Japanese, even though half of my blood is Britannian.

Lelouch: A half?! <Surprised> But, why go that far?

<Camera shows Shirley spotting Lelouch and Kallen together. Kallen's answer is not heard.>

<Camera returns to Kallen's eyes as the Geass effect dissipates.>

Kallen: Um, was there something that you wished to ask me?

Lelouch: No, I'm done.

<Lelouch turns in order to walk away but turns back once more>

Lelouch: Oh yeah. Just in case. <Activates Geass once more> Say nothing about Shinjuku.

Kallen: Eh. What do you mean "about Shinjuku". Why would you say something like that? <Getting suspicious>

Lelouch: <Surprised> Go back to the classroom. <The line is delivered as another Geass command>

Kallen: I will after you answer my question. <She's on the offensive now, letting some of her real personality show>

Lelouch: <Inner monologue, not something he says to Kallen> It doesn't work? What is this supposed to mean?

<Lelouch realizes his mistake and takes a few step back. Shirley interrupts saying that they're all supposed to be in the lab next. Lelouch takes advantage of the situation and claims he needs to get his equipment before class starts and runs off.>

This was how Lelouch came to realize that he can only Geass someone once. This is also what made Kallen suspicious of him, suspicious enough for her to confront him while showering later.


Edit: Yes, he Geassed her so that he could get some information out of her. This was before they started to get to know each other.
That's a shame we never heard the answer to this whole "Why go that far".
I guess they wanted to use it for Kallen's future BG but since in the end we didn't get too much of it but episode 9...shame, really :/
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Old 2009-11-03, 14:00   Link #21978
Nobodyman9
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Originally Posted by Paladinoras View Post
Well, that barely counts as him geassing her. He did...but not to any detrimental effect.
Well for pete's sake, a geass is a geass, no matter how it's implimented. One per person, that's the rule.
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Old 2009-11-03, 14:25   Link #21979
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Yeah, he did use his Geass on her. It served two purposes really.

1) Lelouch needed to find out about his Geass' (arguably) biggest restriction.

2) Kallen got her Geass immunity early on. Not that he ever got to a point where he had any reason to Geass her after that.

However, he did not use it to manipulate her in the way Kallen suspected and he did it before they even started to get to know each other. He did not use it to make her betray her ideals or who she is as a person, nor did he use it to make her follow him. Those feelings were her own, which was what Lelouch pointed out in Turn 02.
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Old 2009-11-03, 14:34   Link #21980
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Yeah, he did use his Geass on her. It served two purposes really.

1) Lelouch needed to find out about his Geass' (arguably) biggest restriction.

2) Kallen got her Geass immunity early on. Not that he ever got to a point where he had any reason to Geass her after that.

However, he did not use it to manipulate her in the way Kallen suspected and he did it before they even started to get to know each other. He did not use it to make her betray her ideals or who she is as a person, nor did he use it to make her follow him. Those feelings were her own, which was what Lelouch pointed out in Turn 02.
Right...

...

What are we arguing again?
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